see ya!

See ya Y! :)

@Yisela yeah I think your product choices are spot on for the site, and I definitely will get some advice off you if I do start one. Not sure yet though, let us know when you relaunch it :) cya

most businesses in teh world barely make profit

bye

@joojaa any that aren't ruthless maybe

Yeah i think its a question of focus

Im trying to find facta but cant, a few years ago the CEO of Glencore made £800 million / billion overnight

I think it was billion but maybe not

on the same company, the founder and previous CEO of that company (Marc Rich) was exiled from the US for many years for tax evasion and illegal dealings amounting to millions of dollars, and was then given a presidential pardon by Bill Clinton the day before he left office - with no explanation

@joojaa do you know anything about Bitcoins / cryptocurrencies?

@DumbNic something but minimally (tough my minimally may be quite much to others)

yeah it's probably a lot more than I've learnt in the last two days lol

Started exploring the dark web :/

LOL

or is it deep web? dark net? deep net? :)

cryptocurrency is not dark

I know that lol

its just a market solution for banks behaving badly

but its the only anonymous currency

Its not

Bitcoin is much less anonymous than it lets on

I mean cryptocurrencies lol forgive my innaccuracy

Thats not the pont tough if they want you tracked they can track you

the point is unless you try to hide money but just want to transfer money crypotocurrencies solve the problems of expensive bank transfers

yh I figure they just have to map every transaction in the ledger and eventually they could reconstruct it

Especially in us banking which is broken beyond belief. I mean I can transfer money from my bank to any european bank with no extra payment in a less than a day.

I still can't get my head around the mining though

is it basically people getpaid to do the admin work?

But still crypotocurencies solve all this banking nonsense that works like its the 1960s where a transfer TRULY is a transfer over real time

where does the new money appear from?

sort of, there can be no transactions if theres no mining, thus the miners are rewarded for thsi work

same way your money appears, out fo thin air

It really seems like a limited solution though

repeat after me: Money does not exist

I like the cap, but that's the same thing that'll eventually make it useless I think

it only exists because you and i give it value but intrinsically it has no value at all.

@joojaa Money does not exist :)

@joojaa It used to be backed with Gold, before the fiat system was introduced

so if we decide the us dollar has no value then it has no value.

Only if old had value

gold i mean

yeah but Gold really does have value nowadays, beyond being shiny

we use it in electronics

gold looses its value pretty quickly in a postapocalyptic world if you have no food and water.

did you know before Gaddafi was taken out of power, apparently he wanted to unite Africa under a Golden Dinar?

So in the end war germany only thinsg that had value were booze, food, tobacco narcotics and women

pretty much in that order too

that would've screwed all markets quite hard

yes but inorder for something to be universally true there can be no cornder cases where it does not apply. Case demonstratoed

money does not exist

worse the world has MORE MONEY thn it has virtual work behind that money. Thats right the previous generation owes 3 future generations income you see.

so meney is a bubble

Indeed, that is essentially what's happening, but just remember a lot of what caused more work for us also caused less work. All of the things we manufacture would've taken a lot more time by hand

Computers were not possible by hand

Not as we know them anyway

sure.

nothing that i do coulndnt be done by computer better

it just needs me to program into doing so.

still we need not work 100 years form now

unless A-HOLES rule the world

I don't even know what I think on the leaders

On a different note though

I don't quite get the anonymous 'tagline'

"We do not forgive. We do not forget."

That makes them just as bad on some things

Oh yh I've gone way off point

I actually wanted to discuss crypto currencies more

I need to shoot now though, may pop back later

Will look like I'm still here because my comp is left on

These resource answers I've been adding recently are quite useful to me already, haha

I've already been able to refer people I know to them

I've had these thinks in my bookmarks for me already, but putting them in a post form makes them much more easily accessible to others

@ZachSaucier 26 non spam links makes a damn useful post.

It could be a bit high maintenance if the links are to sites that you can't rely on in the long term, but I don't think that's the case for the links you've used.

Hi @CarrieKendall

welcome to what is currently a ghost town :)

thanks :) maybe my illustrator questions will conjure a few users

as long as you (at)Scott a magical genie will appear with 3 answers :D

Is there a way to make the stroke of the bottom group appear above the top group of an opacity mask without other layers?

i'm starting to think that i've gone about this the wrong way

@CarrieKendall I'd probably doop the shape, lose the fill and move it to the top of the pile

but that's probably far from the best solution

yeah, i am aware of that solution, but i was specifically trying to use the stroke

i am thinking that i probably can't considering the way i used the mask

what do you mean by trying to use the stroke?

trying to keep some effect produced by a combination of things?

i am specifically asking if there is a way to make the stroke of the green hexagon appear above the masked car

yeah, dupe the shape with the stroke, remove the fill - so you only have the stroke left - and place it above everything else

or is that not working because of the mask?

that would work, i was just curious if you could do it all with one object

hmmm, I'd be interested to see if you could

yeah, i've actually already done what you suggested but it seems kind of clunky

i am very new to masks though so i have no clue if this is even plausible

Ai question that could use your expertise here if you're available @Scott

I still haven't gotten anywhere near comfortable with masks

everytime I use them I forget how to, because I don't use them often

also, i don't mind posting to the site, i am just not super familiar with this community yet :)

yeah, i've always hacked my way around in photoshop. i am currently trying to stop doing that and really learn illustrator

I did the same about a year ago, after I kept doing everything the long way for ages, and then seeing something Scott writes that shows how I could do it in 3 steps instead of 3 days lol

yeah, i'm fairly certain i use about 5% or less of the tools available

is it for vector or pixel output?

vector (svg)

that changes my response significantly

the first few SVGs I made were pretty horrendous

so unoptimised

you should do everything with the least number of shapes, paths and points as possible for optimisation

i'm new to the concept

one thing that was difficult to understand for me

I'm having difficulty describing it

going to look for an example

got one, I'll try to describe, opening Ai for visual example aswell if needed

say you have 2 rectangles, one horizontal on top of the other vertical

I used to think that for optimisation, it was best to cut all shapes so that only visible parts were present

BUT doing so will almost always result in more paths and points than just leaving one shape sitting on top of the other

that makes sense

i would never think to remove the overlap, anyway haha

Huh? waht??

@Scott There is a question somewhere lol

@CarrieKendall Copy the hexagon shape. Paste in Front (command-F). Remove the fill from the pasted copy. Group with Opacity Mask content. Done.

Basically just stack a new object on top that only has a stroke.

Alternatively, you could adjust the mask so that it only includes the area of the fill, not the fill and the stroke.

The second sounds like a cleaner option

Or.... change the stroke to be aligned outside rather than inside

can you do that to the mask or would that require changing what's visible in the car group?

@Scott that doesn't work :(

You've have to change the car to adjust the mask, since it's the mask.

What doesn't work? The stroke alignment?

You're right.. it won't :) I was spitballin'

haha, no worries. nice to know that we shared similar thoughts

I was right though :P 3 answers ;)

Easiest solution is to just add a no-fill green stroke object on top

@Scott yeah, i actually had done this before asking. i just thought it was sort of clunky

it is... but it's not really a problem. Just makes future editing more cumbersome

You could try.....

removing the stroke from the hexagon... apply the mask. Group, then add the stroke to the group on top of the <contents>

Not 100% certain that will work without the art handy, but I'd try it :)

let me give it a go

The grouped stroke might follow the mask. I'm not sure.

can you use the shape to mask directly @Scott?

oh, that actually works

just mask everything outside the shape?

Yup Dom. That's what Carrie is doing.. using the car shape to mask

:slow clap:

Cool.. glad that worked :)

oh yh duh :)

so that's probably the optimal solution? applying the shape to the group

oh, wait! false positive

it also sounds like the most logical solution

the border was black when i first tested so it didn't have any contrast against the opacity mask

ahh.. Yeah, my inclination is that the stroke might follow the mask... which is not what's wanted.

I think a separate stroke object is probably the best way

Unless you alter the car mask.

yeah that's way harder to scale though, so the hexagon no fill object is probably the best way

These types of Adobe software discussions always make me feel out of place in this chat, haha

if you do use a separate stroke, you should lose the hidden stroke to save 0.00000001% file size :)

optimize all the things!

have you checked that all the features you're using work in browsers?

I'm afraid to use a stroke, let alone an opacity mask

Well, you could always select all and flatten transparency when done... that makes everything just a vector shape with a fill.

what does flatten transparency technically do?

a links ok if you cba to explain

i have a very limited knowledge of svg

i decided.. like 3 days ago that i'd be rolling with them primarily for web but i probably need to do a lot more reading

It flattens transparency :) It changes anything using a mask, blending modes, or transparency to be flat objects. If the original art is all flat-filled objects you end up getting flat vector shapes. If the original art has gradients or similar interactions you end up with raster fills and vector clipping masks (same as Photoshop vector files)

so does it create multiple shapes for a gradient or just average it to one colour?

It creates a raster image for a gradient, then adds a vector clipping mask to restrict that raster to the original area.

so there is literally no way to create a vector gradient except by hand?

and by that I mean, one with chunky visible steps

Well actually you could create some simple gradients with CSS in the browser I suppose

Well.. there's no blanket answer Dom. All vector gradients are rasterized upon output. And Not all art needs to be manually flattened before output. If you draw a rectangle, fill it with a gradient and print it, it'll print just fine. But the printer (postscript level 2 or better) rasterized the gradient when it reads the file data.

I can't speak to SVG and browser support of stuff like this. I'm far more versed in print technologies and overall imaging.

This is where I can help :)

@CarrieKendall what's problems are you having with SVG?

lol she wasn't reporting any problems, we were actually just discussing some of the pitfalls or risks of SVG

^

okay :(

mainly feature support in the browser

SVG is quite well supported across the board, most all of its features included

^ :)

when I say support though, I'm generally talking about as far back as IE9

and all recent mobile browsers

It works on IE9, just not 8-

yeah, i'm going to use modernizr to switch to some other format depending on base support but other than that, i'm fairly new to the concept of vectors in the browser

I recall reading about many silly little problems in loads of browsers for some SVG features

as for mobile, it works on everything except some old versions of Android

if you're supporting IE8 you're likely to have bigger problems than just SVGs xD

I'm happy with the PNG fallback method on that front

I just make sure everything in my SVGs are outlined shapes to avoid all possible problems

when I start to create more complex SVGs, I'll probably delve into specific feature availability more

should (opacity) masks be flattened?

I think in most cases yes

but save first and create a duplicate file or shape

I think that can be classified as a 'destructive' action

maybe not

oh, i'll just keep multiple copies

that's the best option, though an SVG is another usable copy

the only problem with saving project files as SVG, is when I open them in Illustrator they don't have a specified canvas size, and I don't remember the measurements

could be a setting I'm missing

@Yisela - Howdy! I'm the user that asked this question about a problem with Illustrator. No worries about it being migrated - I'll take answers wherever I can get them. But I'm confused; I would think this question would be squarely on-topic here.

Writers.SE. Cool

IMO the question fits on both, but she likely knows better than me :)

With the information available that's definitely more tech support than GD. Sounds like a problem with your machine settings @NeilFein

We have a specific close reason for tech support, decided before I joined, to specifically separate tech support content I suppose

It's good because I'm fairly certain there are an uncountable amount of bugs with specific machines, hardware, software, OS and every other possible factor

I think we make exceptions for widespread, easy to reproduce software bugs, but in general they get closed or migrated

Makes sense.

@NeilFein Have you recently installed Pushbullet?

(Or any other Chrome app which uses the clipboard?)

As a matter of fact, yes. Is there a known conflict?

Eeyup. Turn off the universal copy/paste option on Pushbullet and you're golden.

Apparently Chrome and Adobe don't like to share the clipboard with each other, and Chrome wins.

now it sounds like a bug we'd want to document lol

I was going to ask the exact same question here a couple weeks ago, but for reasons [gestures above]... I didn't.

I'd upvote both Q and A if you asked and answered it :)

so that's atleast 15 imaginary points :)

well if anyone asks and answers it

If you edit with the new information @NeilFein maybe we can bring it back

@ZohmB is that something we'd want here?

@BESW Changed the setting, no effect yet but I'll reboot later this evening and let you know. Thanks!

(reboot chrome)

Good luck!

If that doesn't work, it'll probably be a matter of resetting your preferences files.

yeah that's a question better for SU

I wish I could star it for a bug folder

I can imagine spending a long time trying to figure that one out

I spent almost two weeks.

how did you figure it out?

I did everything all the troubleshooting guides recommended, and then even upgraded my suite from 5.5 to 6 to see if that would fix it.

Finally I went back to the forums and read everything even vaguely related. By that time (because of all the troubleshooting docs) I had better vocabulary and could refine my searches.

I found half a dozen threads of people who'd tried everything I had, and then disabled Pushbullet. In three of the threads, the Pushbullet folks themselves showed up to say "Yeah, we know, we have the same problem, no clue how to fix it, sorry guys."

But the Pushbullet documentation still doesn't seem to mention the problem.

Haha, on the vocabulary note, you might want to add in 'conflicting' somewhere. I think that's the technical term for this.

I had no idea it was a conflict: only Adobe products were bugging out.

Pushbullet worked fine.

At any rate, most of the solution threads are years old but the solution posts less than a month. So I was skipping/skimming them as probably out of date.

@BESW Changing the setting in pushbullet didn't work. (I rebooted chrome after and still no help.) Tried resetting my settings in AI - command-option-control-shift on staring AI. Still nothing.

You might try restarting the computer entirely?

@NeilFein on this topic though, you should consider all recent changes to the OS and try to work backwards from the latest change

Otherwise it's time to start forcing plist rebuilds.

@NeilFein Also, try disabling all Chrome apps.

Pushbullet's the most common offender, but it's apparently a bug in how Chrome hands clipboard permissions to apps, rather than a bug in the app itself.

Hmm. Gonna quit out of chrome and see if the problem goes away. Back in a few.

Nope, that's not it. So if its chrome, whatever its doing is sticking around.

Yeah, because my bug was limited to manifesting when I used the clipboard in a certain common way while Chrome was open, it turned into an Intermittent Defect I couldn't replicate reliably--I just knew that once it kicked in, my only recourse seemed to be turning off the computer.

So if I want to use illustrator until I find a fix, reboot, don't open chrome, open illustrator. Use Firefox or whatever till I'm done with illustrator.

If the bug still shows up under those circumstances, I'm wrong about the cause.

If that works, will you let us know please?

Will do.