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12:34 AM
@Eric yeah, click the "my logins" button on your profile
it's been a while since I've been job hunting, but the last head hunter I dealt with was easy to communicate with
 
 
2 hours later…
2:32 AM
There are some nice patterns here at Subtle Patterns but the license terms are not standardized.
Making patterns and then saying "you can use it on a commercial website!" but then saying "you can't include it in a texture collection that you sell" starts to get very murky.
That's why we have Creative Commons...because if everyone writes their own licenses it causes problems in the interpretation of the will and intent of the creator.
What if I make a commercial paint program, and I want some default textures, and I include these patterns and sell the program? I could argue I'm not charging for the textures, I'm charging for the program. You start getting on this slippery slope. I think being required to provide attribution and share-alike is enough leverage against truly shady operations.
If you really are anti-commercial purposes, you should just use the NC noncommercial clause.
 
@HostileFork What's the NC noncommercial clause?
ah, as part of CC right?
was wondering what "NC" stood for.... duh,
 
@Yisela Yes, all the licenses have a "human readable" form, so here's CC-BY-NC...but the point is they've hacked on it as enforceable legal code, so then there's legal code for CC-BY-NC
 
I did some research on CC (well, copyleft, to be precise) some time ago, but it wasn't that much centered on CC, it was a particular project that tried to connect a city with home-made antennas
 
Which doesn't necessarily go into super big detail of what that is, but the thing is that you inherit the precedent of however that winds up being interpreted, and if you feel there's an egregious violation of license then you have some shot at having others do your legal legwork for you
That will not happen if you write your own license
I'm more interested in SA than NC
 
2:47 AM
I have to re-read on this, most things I have shared as CC were just attribution
 
Trying tonight to finish another plugin, based on Creative Commons...
 
plugin for..?
 
Well it was something that happened out of an argument I got into with the people who run Snopes, that urban legend site, in 2011
They had disabled mouse selections with JavaScript, you couldn't select text, and I wrote them about whether they'd lost their minds or what
(Above graphic is not meant to be a fancy design of any kind, I'll explain why in a sec)
 
haha
 
They were mad because people were copying and pasting their articles and sending them around, and not only did they feel their license terms were being violated, but as they are in the business of stopping the spread of incorrect information they wanted people to be sending links instead so that they could update things to be up-to-the-minute correct
 
2:52 AM
ok
 
"And... so you break people's browser as an answer to this? You presumably copy and paste content from urban legend posts to get your material in the first place...what if your web/text editor disabled that? How is it that you're stopping me from copying text out of the urban legend YOU COPIED AND PASTED INTO YOUR ARTICLE AND DID NOT WRITE!?"
 
completely agree, but since it seems to have been a problem for them I wonder what alternatives are available
 
So I went off and tinkered to try and find a way to hierarchically establish content licenses on documents, detect when you are selecting a "significant portion of material", watermark the material if that threshold is reached, punch out holes in the watermarks for things that are quoted and under a different license, etc.
 
or is the answer: "You can't do it, it's online, it's available" ?
woa
 
Basically you can put a css class on a div for its license
 
2:53 AM
ok
 
And you get a little warning icon with a light indicator... red for all rights reserved, green for public domain dedication, yellow for creative commons
Stuck to the end of the selection
You click it and it offers you a pop up with some advice about sending the link vs copying the text, telling you the license etc
But none of this breaks copy/paste
 
ah!
nice!!
are you working on this now or is this a past project?
 
Well, our email thread ended off in 2011 when I started writing it and was going to send them a demo to tell them "Now THIS might be reasonable..."
But it turned out to be... hard.
Well, harder than I thought
I've been just going through and trying to upload all my stuff to "the cloud" somewhere in a personal projects archiving operation...deciding what I'll finish in this lifetime and what I won't, etc. etc.
So I came back to it last week and said "all right, let me decide what to do with this"
And I have pretty much fixed it so it works.
However, I found out that petitioners at change.org managed to get snopes to do a turnabout‌​, which took effect in February of this year
So my poster child for "naughty site that should know better" is gone
 
oh, wow!
 
Kind of takes the wind out of the sails a bit, as I don't really like the idea all that much. It's cluttery. Then again, I sort of like the techno-dystopian world it presents where legalese is drowning out just being able to work effectively.
 
3:00 AM
it's a solution to a problem that clearly everyone noticed
and it's a creative one
definitely worth your time, in my opinion
even if it's not going to be used immediately, it leaves the door open for many other implementations
 
Well, I also like getting open source versions of things out as prior art in case someone tries to "invent it" and then be a jerk about it.
> By 1996, it became clear to everyone in the halls of power that there was something important about to happen. We were about to have an information economy, whatever the hell that was. They assumed it meant an economy where we bought and sold information. Now, information technology makes things efficient, so imagine the markets that an information economy would have.
 
heh, yes
 
> You could buy a book for a day, you could sell the right to watch the movie for one Euro, and then you could rent out the pause button at one penny per second. You could sell movies for one price in one country, and another price in another, and so on, and so on
 
where's that quote from?
 
> the fantasies of those days were a little like a boring science fiction adaptation of the Old Testament book of Numbers, a kind of tedious enumeration of every permutation of things people do with information and the ways we could charge them for it.
@Yisela A talk one mustn't miss, Cory Doctorow: "The coming war on general purpose computation"
 
3:04 AM
added to watchlist
I need to recognize I've been ignoring so much stuff that is right in front of my eyes, about who 'owns' information and knowledge
haven't acted on it
 
@Yisela No one person can take full responsibility for it, but I think everyone should be bending the ears of those they can about the importance...
 
there's always a reason to fall into "If I do the ethical thing, why torture myself about those who don't". Sort of like "the new generation will fix it"
luckily the older I get, the less I conform
@HostileFork exactly.
 
My feeds are worrying about the Net Neutrality problem right now...
 
They should
 
@HostileFork what is this?
 
3:13 AM
@Yisela Dystopian picture of what it might look like in a world where ISPs can turn back the clock and turn Internet usage into a tiered system, similar to cable, regarding what sites you can access.
 
ah, hell, I was really creeped for a second
yeah
 
You should be
 
then I noticed "Napster"
subscriptions models are not that far from this
 
It's about the role of middlemen in an exchange, not about payment in the absolute.
Although another for the watchlist... perhaps less applicable outside the US
 
Suddenly Blockbuster returns from the dead.
 
3:16 AM
To appease Ivan I wrote what I thought might be considered "actually caring" feedback on that gravity in motion thing.
2
A: Can I redesign a logo I created in Photoshop in illustrator?

HostileForkSomewhere I have an unfinished essay challenging the assertion that a vector drawing "does not lose detail when it is scaled". It really depends on what you call a "detail". Because any non-linear property of a graphic relationship is lost in vector scaling. It ties into why you can't double t...

In part because I wondered how one might give such feedback, in contrast to what I think have been bad examples of feedback.
Not because I would have thought to give such a response to that question otherwise. It's the "what if I felt so passionately that the person needed to be informed"
I don't, but "what if"
 
ah, yes, I saw that last night
very nice
would double or triple upvote
may I suggest some bold text or titles (esp in the first part) to improve readability?
havent seen the edit yet
 
@Yisela Anyone may edit, I come from Wikipedia...
 
alright! /sharpens pencils
 
In fact I kicked off the "make the wikipedia logo an actual 3-D thing" effort, trying to figure out what would be on the back of the globe and making it something you could actually build as an object
Didn't myself finish it, but the work was picked up a few years later when other people decided that would be a worthwhile thing.
Haven't done much on Wikipedia last couple years though. :-/
Got more into StackOverflow for a while.
 
yeah, me neither
I created a loooot of nerdy articles back in the day
and did translations from english to spanish
(content in spanish is much better now, almost as much as E)
 
3:29 AM
My main thing is three-paragraph introductions, and making sure paragraphs are paragraphs... vs just "hm, seems there have been a lot of sentences, getting a bit long. must be time for a line break."
 
yeah
you'll notice most of my edits include paragraph breaks
it was actually a comment here in GD that made me obsess about it
a user that pointed out the long sentences (esp in comments, but those cant have line breaks) were a pain for people with dyslexia
so I've been line-breaking the hell out of everything ever since
be back in 5, need some fuel
 
3:44 AM
sup
 
hi Matt!
@HostileFork Still reading, but thinking also: should all that content be available in a different question as well, one easier to find?
well, it could actually answer a bunch of different questions
 
@Yisela I don't think it hurts to have it there. If it is ever borrowed from to write a greater manifesto or book one can link to it. But I was trying to paint some strokes about what the "big questions" are while also keeping it relevant to points about that design.
 
4:00 AM
definitely doesn't hurt, wondering the opposite, if it would help more by being more visible
 
The point Ivan wanted to make is "you don't know what you don't know", which is... well... that's the nature of existence up until you at least get to the point of knowing what you don't know...
"One of today's lucky 10,000..."
 
yeah, seen this, love it
I get really excited along people who discover they can actually create things, graphics
 
I think it's easier to start with photography
 
you think? hmmm not for me
but I believe I know what you mean, composition, right?
 
Just decision making, adjustment, not having to be responsible for really creating entirely out of your own head... people live in a visual world and can learn to adjust and frame up a photo in basic ways and get better very quickly
 
4:07 AM
"...using a phone"
 
Some phones can take okay pictures these days.
 
(still valid, a director I really like uses only crappy cameras for his movies and he is amazing nonetheless)
 
But I have a Nikon D80
 
I never fully 'understood' photography, not sure if it's the framing that just looks different in my mind, or that I lack the "eye" to find what I want to capture..
 
It's really gotten me sensitive to color
 
4:11 AM
yes, true (I like the ratio you are using)
 
These days I do most designs in HD, good for phones
 
HD?
what do you mean?
 
16:9
The ratio used by high def video
 
ah!!
 
And many smartphone screens
There's one I made pretty early on in my graphic designing, people like that one
 
4:16 AM
yeah
nice idea on the hole thing
(if one or both ears disappeared in the bottom border, even better because the tunnel is endless)
 
It's an idea
 
love the clock
I do wonder however, not as a critique but just because my brain does, where is the man coming from
 
Clipart, had to change it a bit, didn't have a white face.
Presumably jumping from left
 
he looks like he's following a trajectory, from the upper left corner, but that part is "closed" bt the rabbit head
if he is falling from the very top left, in a straight line, he will get hit by the border in the bottom
 
There wasn't really a lot of thought in it honestly, took about 2 hours
I was actually doing it to demo to someone that making graphics wasn't that hard
I may be a bit too structured to think this way now, who knows
"Hey it's a rabbit clipart. Hey, turn it upside down. Hey..." Actually, the original rabbit wasn't smooth like that, and I in my statistical figure-ground-calculation thing try to make the black and white areas equal, that sort of thing
Using histograms
 
4:21 AM
I see
was the falling into a tunnel part of the idea or am I making that up? Alice in wonderland was actually the first book I read in my life
I'm guessing if there is a man it's on purpose :)
 
Yes, that would be the idea
But also to be the eye of the rabbit sort of
 
aaaah!
make him cannonball into the tunnel :P
I don't think we have a question on "how is math used in graphic design"
would be nice to add one
 
Fairly open ended, though.
 
very
super-broad too
you mentioned one of the uses
 
I tend to start with ideas and kind of try to work them out
 
4:25 AM
making the black and white areas equal
 
Wanted a painting for my kitchen but prototyped it first, working with color ratios, histograms... 1:2:2:1
 
"What are the most common math principles using in composition"? still too broad
 
Sometimes you get ideas, work through them, decide if that's interesting to you or not
 
oh, nice
 
And I like that there's a little "secret ratio" that works out in the histogram of it
 
4:28 AM
great colors all around
 
The darkest and lightest have equal area, the medium tones have equal area, ratio 2:1
 
yes
noticed
 
I left that in LA though, it's been in a couple people's houses since.
 
what is it printed on?
 
It's acrylic, commissioned it to be hand painted
From my spec
 
4:31 AM
you sound like Mr Brainwash
xD
from Exit through the gift shop
 
Seen it, but I don't know how much our art or attention to detail would have in common. :-)
Seen "How to draw a bunny?"
 
no
google doesnt help in this case
gazillion tutorials on how to draw bunnies
 
Ray Johnson, hm
No trailer. I guess it's more obscure than I thought
> They remembered the time he dropped footlong hot dogs from a helicopter over Ward's Island and the time an admirer sought to buy one of his collages. The prospective buyer said he had $1,000 to spend. Johnson asked $2,000. The prospective buyer offered $1,500. He got the collage. But Johnson had cut away a quarter of it.
 
I dont have audio anyway
 
Yup
 
4:35 AM
also added to watchlist
 
Well, I don't know if it's riveting, or if Exit Through the Gift Shop was either, but they're the same sort of movie
 
now I just need a couple extra lives to watch all this
yeah sounds like it
related/unrelated, let me find a link
can't find it, but it's a TED talk, this girl who is an artist (slash street artist?) and wondered "how art could save the world", sort of
this will drive me insane until I find it
 
Well there's this, not by a girl: ted.com/talks/…
 
I recall she went to Haiti after the quake
it was about volunteering through art
it probably wasn't Haiti and that's why I can't find her, but I'll ask around (do.not.obsess.Yisela)
 
4:44 AM
nope
oh, if you are recommending I have no audio (I work with microphones - impossible to plug headphones in in peace)
 
No just looking to see what keyword crosses come up.
Anything to procrastinate from the JavaScript
 
Couple of interesting ones
 
Haven't been making much time for movies of late, just canceled Netflix actually due to lack of use. Too much coding.
 
procrastinate by thinking what project we could encourage from GD.SE as a community
 
The central project I'm interested in, regarding that, is stopping the Ivans of the world. And a lot of that has to do with setting precedent and tone.
 
4:49 AM
we don't normally get Ivans
 
Well, there are many communities that do
> In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read.
> But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so.
> But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations. The new needs friends.
(From Ratatouille)
 
" the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so." this phrasing confuses me a little. We are designating less meaning than it originally had?
The new needs friends :)
 
The criticism itself probably has less originality or worth than may be present in whatever germ of an idea might be in the work being criticized, or at least the effort.
 
good
 
Ivan doesn't know what the story of this business is, or this guy's wife, or what it took for her to cut off the hand with the basketball and put another one in its place.
Or if she is a really moral person who had to venture into the dark world of piracy to get a copy of creative suite she doesn't know how to use...
 
4:53 AM
you don't think it's just a guy being insensitive, that will act insensitively in any other situation?
you have participated in many forums so have probably seen patterns
 
Or... who knows, there's probably a lot more interest in that story (assuming it's not a juxtaposition created by an algorithm, but that's always something I have to consider, given my actual field)... than there is about some anonymous critic who I would bet I could wipe out in many areas. Not the least of which graphic design.
 
well, in both cases it is wrong, that's reason enough for me to jump in
maybe this deserves a meta post
 
I'm happy enough with a meta post saying that "you shouldn't be doing this, you obviously lack talent, hire a professional" is never a valid answer.
 
an agreement on how to answer to it, even if that agreement is a comment any of us can leave, plus a reference to the reasoning behind it
well, that should be obvious enough
 
Should be, but apparently isn't
And yes, I've been on other forums, and it's not obvious to them either
 
4:57 AM
it is for all those who participated in that exchange
 
Minus one.
 
leaving comments or editing
 
Well, heed my warning. This element isn't just out there, there are a lot of people with a pack mentality who can be sure they all agree that people who are so bad shouldn't even be trying.
For the moment, I imagine most anyone coming to a SE site has some programming/community/background that is not cut from that cloth
 
are you more worried about the girl being hurt/demotivated by him, or by him not fully getting what being a decent human being is about?
by our definition GD is for anyone doing design, professional or not
"Graphic Design is for questions targeted toward design professionals, students, and enthusiasts", and we are all here to learn together
 
The former, but I'd like to make sure groundwork and precedent is set to figure out how to get him to shape up or begone.
 
5:01 AM
that's why I think meta post would be good
 
And there will be more who react like that, if this site gets attention and starts to seem important to have a "high score" here.
 
meta is discussion and precedent
yes
definitely
would love to continue chatting but I have to leave, and you should probably code
 
I suppose. Later...
Nice talking
 
again, very interesting points, and esp that last bit remind us we just left beta and we already have 300% more questions/answers
would be nice to visit other chat rooms of sites that went through the same
in the meantime, extra efforts to leave encouraging comments
see ya
@HostileFork if you havent seen this one: meta.graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/832/…
 
@Yisela Will look. There are some canon SO ones...
1222
Q: Could we please be a bit nicer to new users?

Chris UpchurchThere is a distinct decline in the level of civility here. Some of this is due to new users coming in and posting spam and other nonsense, but the offtopic and downvote buttons are doing a pretty good job of keeping this under control. Unfortunately, a lot of this is coming from more experien...

 
5:07 AM
yeah
"we’re all here to learn, together. Be tolerant of others who may not know everything you know, and bring your sense of humor."
 
 
2 hours later…
7:23 AM
@HostileFork Found the TED talk
Callie Curry aka Swoon
Although her aesthetics can be seen as an outgrowth of street art, her engagement with ethical living and making art share a close kinship with the idealism of off-grid, barter-based cultures and economies based on sharing.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:26 AM
Ah, it's good to see that I wasn't the only one rubbed the wrong way by Ivan's comments on that question.
 
8:37 AM
hi Bakabaka!
 
good afternoon, @Yisela
 
good afternoon / night here
 
morning, actually :)
 
ah! haha
 
I scanned you talking about a meta post about the issue -- nonconstructive criticism on work of a beginning designer.
but... isn't that already there?
15
Q: Be honest. Be nice. We're all humans.

YiselaAs you probably know, GD.SE is part of the Stack Exchange network. SE's model is based on four 'cardinal' rules. The first two ones: Be honest, be nice. (they are not mutually exclusive ;) ). This post is not directed at any specific user, nor is it in response to any specific incident. The sub...

 
8:40 AM
it kind of is, the focus is sliiiiightly different, but same 'principles'
 
I got a question about modding. I know it's a toughie, so feel free to estimate, but: how much time does modding take you, on average?
 
I think this case is rather specific, but I wonder if a whole new meta post in the same tone would be constructive... maybe editing some more info in, in the existing one
it really depends, normally I have GD open while working, so that time is quite distributed. The last couple of days were of the most active (in history!) and I spent perhaps... 3 hours. But I was editing, changing titles, answering
I think it really depends what kind of things you do, the maintenance stuff is quite straightforward, not different from being a normal user with editing / reviewing privileges
 
I see. At least that didn't convince me not to nominate :)
 
haha :)
I really enjoy it so I see it as time well spent
keep in mind also that now we are only 2 mods
so there's quite a lot of "work" making sure things go on as normal
it's a very organised community, most times I want to leave a comment someone else has already done it
 
It's time well spent indeed. GD tends to inspire to create and discover
 
8:48 AM
yes, definitely
 
uh yeah, that's one of the things that strikes me about this community is that there's lots of 'sub-mod's. Peeps who jump in to fulfill mod roles beyond you two.
 
yes! it's great
well, it's how it's supposed to be, really
 
Random, Jenna, 'Fork, to name a few
 
it is community driven at its best
do you still need an approx number of hours or did my speech answer your question?
 
that answered my question quite fine, thanks
 
8:51 AM
phewww good that it didn't scare you :D
 
speech... rant... poh-ta-toe... poe-tay-toe
 
haha, I thought it meant something else actually, I googled it xD
"rant... rant... was that negative?" (yep)
 
hm, seems to have negative connotations indeed
may be wise to aks around at English Language & Usage :P
 
WordReference plugin for chrome to the rescue
ah! they changed the "event" round thing that was broken (in the home, the notifications)
color still a little weird, not enough contrast
 
for me it's still broken -- the last letter still drops off
...color?
 
8:58 AM
works fine here, the letter. By color I mean the pink on blue
 
ah yes.
 
I would have gone for a lighter pink
 
imho, there's just too much contrast
I'd have gone for the dark teal in the (!) icon
 
what's the name of that?... "noise in the edges"
 
isn't that some kind of complementary-contrast illusion?
 

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