Honestly, the question's poorly defined and would have done better as two.
One question about the GM's role in character behavior and alignment changes, and one about appropriate in-game responses to divine characters acting in defiance of their god's agenda.
Conflating GM response with game-world response is classic 3.5 doublethink which doesn't have much place in 4e.
@Pulsehead "after removing the cloak (for 24 hours?)" - it would make a more solid connection to let them rest easier the first night, and easier still the next, like a weight is lifting off them, etc. (Imagine someone giving up the mini-ring)
@GMNoob It is definitely more fun to make your player deal with mortal agents than punish them from a god on high they can do little to nothing about that is clearly you just going: "Stop doing that"
Punished by a god, unless done very well, comes with little character development. Pursued by an order or assassins is, almost without effort, development of character.
@JonathanHobbs I'm just thinking of all the times in the D&D books that I have read about gods interacting with mortals, while the mortals retained their free will.
For example, the thief who robbed the tomb of a king dedicated to the god of thieves. He was stricken with a curse that made him supernaturally good at thievery, but increasingly awful at everything else. He could throw the curse off on his own relatively easily... but I engineered the curse so it'd be an awful temptation not to.
They may not be very obvious because of one of those differences: gods don't mess around with mortals as directly anymore, so they don't get talked about as much.
4e gods are basically the firstborn of the multiverse. They don't get power from worship.
@GMNoob it's not putting the assassins in combat that is the development. It's using that to help build that character's story. Think in a storytelling sense: moving from a pious cleric to one tempted by evil and hunted by their order, how is that not character development?
While earlier D&D editions would eventually stat up gods, they weren't done so with the expectation that gods would be regular bosses. 4e expects you to cap a level 30 campaign with a god-level battle.
They use their followers --especially the divine classes-- as chess pieces instead. This makes players more important.
If the gods can intervene whenever they like, the players only get to do things for their gods when the gods let them, and they only achieve victories against the evil gods when the evil gods let them.
Part of what makes this work is that once a god grants you access to his power so you can cast divine spells, he can't take that away.
The PC cleric who prays for Pelor to send help in the fight against a vampire has missed the point: that cleric is the help Pelor sent.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's a table issue, and not a game system issue. Otherwise, Clerics are Mages
And I'm pretty sure, that even in 4e the idea was that the cleric has faith in what he is doing. So if he deludes himself, he gets the powers, even if Pelor doesn't support him, because the power comes from his faith, and not from Pelor.
@GMNoob Right. And in a world where this is true, a cleric who turns away from from his god is an awful thing, not just a traitor and a betrayer of trust, but he has let down all the people he'd been chosen to aid--and he's now able to turn that granted power against his order and his god.
@JonathanHobbs It's not me doing anything. The assassins attack. That is all that happens. It could lead to many things, the least obvious of which is some sort of introspection. In the real world, when organizations go against members, those members tend to see themselves as the true version of the organization, and label the attackers as heretics of some kind.
A 3.5 cleric who defies his god becomes impotent. He was never a free agent, he only had power so long as he did what his god wanted. When he deviates, he ceases to have any agency.
@GMNoob Ok, but consider this from a different perspective. I'm going to assume you've seen a thriller story before, or anything spooky.
Those stories often involve you almost never seeing the actual threat. The mere promise the threat was present, somewhere, somehow, was scary on its own.
You don't have to throw the assassins at your character. Heck, you could throw a couple at them just to let them know they're being hunted: then they know they are, and then never show them another one for ages. But spook them out, and poke them mentally to jump at shadows (whether metaphorically or literally)
You even have the option of just having someone deliver a message that assassins have been dispatched, and then never show them any assassins at all. Have people act strangely. Give them reason to think their tea is poisoned, and so on.
You probably would make them face someone eventually, and then more people after that, quite possibly, but I'm just talking about this to show what I mean.
I need to get the name of the font used in the penrose triangle logo in this site I did:
https://sites.google.com/site/utopiaerre/
The guy who did the logo just took an existing image of the "UTOPIA" writing and slanted it to fit the cubes, so he doesn't know which font it is.
I'm pretty sure ...
@BESW Seems like it is. Otherwise the default response would be. Give the player a dream where they feel anger from their divine patron. Rather than, make them think some group of thugs are after them.
And now I know why Roll20.net was down for me when I tried to use it...
if someone uploads something they can check it off as public (this is from foggy memory) there are already assets in the built in search engine from within roll20 and it lists those first before google hits
I think the reason they dont have it completely like that is copyright litagation
roll20 is great put they probably don't have the money to get sued for unlawful distribution if someone started distributing WOTC or PAIZO stuff using their site
@JoshuaAslanSmith LOL, if I wanted to buy a Map making tool, I would buy a mapmaking tool. But roll20 is about getting you into the game faster, or so their website says :)
True, but I mean some of these new features and even some of the core, but optional features (dice macros w/ buttons) take a little bit of learning and an increased proficiency can be a benefit. I know everyone wants everything NOW, but I still think learning through doing has its place too.
Sure, learn through using the program. That's great. But could you imagine if every OS demanded that you build your own Calculator program to have a calculator running on your computer?
I'm sure as more people donate, they will add full pages to the marketplace, and not just images and tokens.
I mean I thought about posting a question and answering said question myself and then giving myself said bounty (not sure about the last part) and getting 2 hats, but that also seems subversive to what we actually want at rpg.se
Ive got a slight issue with the badges and whatnot because I feel the encourage achievement seeking rather than simply being a reward for doing good like rep is.
I am quite aware that the best way to optimize a Gishy Character in 4E is to not do it an instead focus on a clearly Tier One Type like a Druid, Cleric, or Wizard.
But I have a foundness for those that can sling spell instead of blade, like Dak'kon from Planescape: Torment. So, given that, how ...
its weird too because there are a lot of 4e classes that I would say fit that archetype (Though they done have 2 power sources) such as bladesinger, swordmage, paladin, hexblade warlock, etc.
lol I understand, 4e is awesomesauce if you are into tactical boardgames and rpgs with combat its basically an rpg system built around tactical combat with a lot of freedom when it comes to skills and roleplay outside of combat
@ProfessorLokiCaprion It really depends on who you find. I have done rps where we type multiple paragraphs each in the space of about 5 minutes. Then with other people who type a few sentences in 15 minutes.
@ProfessorLokiCaprion You could always do ummm. Not sure of the name but the blog like rps. You post on the forum and leave or wait and just post when you are online.
@metool as @besw explained it to me. Talk about whatever you want but if someone has a question or is trying to discuss RPGs that takes precedence and other conversations should abate (or go into a seperate chatroom) until said matter is resolved
Speaking of sensitive topics. I'm trying to make fish sex sound appealing. Fish-people being fish-like should lay groups of eggs and then have a male come by and spray the eggs with sperm. Doesn't sound very enjoyable. Ideas?
It's a private ritual, not shared with anyone, and a prayer ceremony in which you call upon your fishy gods to ensure the right person is chosen to fertilize with.
@dampes8n you could make it an impulse of necessity like hunger vs. pleasure as we would consider sex and then as a society there is a lot of social prestige/positive reinforcement for the acts
While Homosexuality is rarer in Dragonfolk than in other races, it does exist among around 0.3% of the population. Homosexual intercourse can appear exactly like heterosexual intercourse, with one addition, males can co-penetrate each other in a practice called “braiding.”
Homosexuality is not accepted among most Dragonfolk, and when asked, most will deny it exists at all. Allegations of homosexual acts are typically ignored, but in some rare cases it has led to the end of marriages and the removal of children from the offending party’s care.
@Aaron I'm trying to think about how these species would experiment sexually. What they would find pleasurable and how their various societies would have evolved to be the way they are portrayed. Bullywugs are jerks. So self pleasure, at the detriment of others, probably wouldn't bother them.
@ProfessorLokiCaprion I imagine it more like if you made "v for victory" signs with your hands and pushed them together so the Vs intersect.
@ProfessorLokiCaprion Yes, it is co-penetration, and the Dragonfolk each have two penises (if male) and so the act vaguely looks like braided rope. Hence the slang term.
@ProfessorLokiCaprion Hopefully you are feeling "Hey, that's pretty interesting, I'd buy a book about how mating works for fantasy races if all the info is like this!"
I need to get the name of the font used in the penrose triangle logo in this site I did:
https://sites.google.com/site/utopiaerre/
The guy who did the logo just took an existing image of the "UTOPIA" writing and slanted it to fit the cubes, so he doesn't know which font it is.
I'm pretty sure ...
I am quite aware that the best way to optimize a Gishy Character in 4E is to not do it an instead focus on a clearly Tier One Type like a Druid, Cleric, or Wizard.
But I have a foundness for those that can sling spell instead of blade, like Dak'kon from Planescape: Torment. So, given that, how ...
