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12:01 AM
hang on a minute...
it looks like one side of the street has cable and the other doesn't
> Great news! You could get up to 80Mb speed
You could get
Fibre broadband
69Mb-80Mb Estimated download speed* range
64Mb Minimum speed guarantee
of course this is all guesswork, i don't have a postcode yet
also my flat is in a converted office building so there could be all sorts of crazy comms going on
 
@Burgi Ah, it could be worse; a few years ago I moved into a flat which was in the only building on the street which didn't have FTTC (this was earlier in the Openreach rollout days).
I then moved to a flat on one of the earliest streets in my city to get FTTC... and again the building wasn't cabled.
Ended up emailing the cablemystreet team at Virgin and they cabled the building up, and emailed ot let me know... two months after I left.
 
Fibre to the... Chair?
 
@MichaelFrank Fibre to the Cabinet :)
 
(and copper from the cabinet to the home)
 
12:09 AM
We're getting to the Door at the moment. I'm very excited.
 
We'll probably get that sometimes in the mid 2020s...
 
The provider are digging up the street as we speak!
 
my last rental flat my landlady was on virgin media and had the capability of 100Mbps but she was on a zombie package and was restricted to 10Mbps and throttled to 1Mbps at peak times
 
Of course, my tales of woe don't really help @burgi get better then 5MB service...
Ouch
 
i used to live in Windermere and got 24Mbps which was great :)
 
Bob
12:11 AM
@MichaelFrank Oh, you're actually getting it? :P
We're supposed to get FTTN "by 2020"
 
Actually @burgi if you're in a MDU (implied by converted office) have you checked to see if Hyperoptic service your area? If you ask them nicely enough you might end up with a 1GBps service (and make me very green in turn)
 
Bob
Two years ago, it was "in Q3 2017"
 
@Bob Yup! Although I might be moving soon. :S
 
Bob
Four years ago, it was FTTP
Six years ago, it was FTTP by 2014
 
> Medical Defence Union?
 
12:12 AM
@Burgi heh, multiple dwelling unit
 
Bob
By the time 2020 rolls around I'm expecting to hear that we'll be getting 56k by 2030.
2
 
Though kudos if you're in one of the MDUs too
 
@JourneymanGeek Turns out it was the RAM. Quick swap out and the laptop is good as new. HP are still sending me a replacement stick though. Can't be using up all my own stock ;)
 
@bertieb ah! you mean see if the previous company had a fibre line installed to the building?
 
Basically Hyperoptic's thing seems to be to cable up a big flat building/apartment block/etc and offer gigabit speeds for weirdly reasonable prices.
 
Bob
12:14 AM
@bertieb What kind of copper?
I tried to take apart an HP laptop for cleaning yesterday.
 
@Bob Uh, VDSL off the top of my head, but don't quote me on that. Tops out at about ~80MBps it seems.
 
Bob
Ended up with one extra screw, and three extra screws + screw sockets (that snapped off)...
@bertieb Ah. The current plan for our NBN thing is a mix of VDSL2 and HFC. My area is supposed to get HFC (w/ FTTN, of course).
 
@Burgi Kinda. Hyperoptic seem to actually do the cabling themselves if you can argue it's worth their while ("me and the residents of this building would totally use your gigabit service...")
@Bob Ah, which would you rather of the two?
 
they aren't in the suburbs of manchester
!!info
 
@Burgi I awoke on Mon, 13 Feb 2017 20:53:43 GMT (that's about 6 days ago), got invoked 46 times, learned 7 commands, but forgotten 3 commands, teleported 37 goats
 
Bob
12:16 AM
Which is supposed to be "up to" 100/40 but I'd expect more like 20/2 on a good day.
 
@bertieb, there
 
Bob
I hate shared carrier. That includes HFC, btw.
 
@Burgi I didn't see him in the list; eventually found him but thanks :)
 
Bob
@bertieb Hard to say... VDSL2 would probably be alright, I'm something like 100m from the local silo. But what I really want is the originally-planned FTTP :(
 
@Bob Contention issues?
 
Bob
12:17 AM
@bertieb I'm expecting that, yes.
 
bedtime
 
Bob
They plan to reuse existing copper. Also, since we're on ADSL at the moment, VDSL would just be a modem swap. But, no, they had to pick HFC... so we're gonna have to figure out if the coax is still good.
 
@Bob Amen to that. ISTR complains about NBN rollout back in the day on /.
@Burgi Ah, shame :-/
 
Bob
The house is cabled up but we don't use cable. Previous owners did.
@bertieb ISTR?
 
I Seem To Recall/Remember
Lots of money, over promising, under delivering, more money
I thought things had improved since then
(sounded similar to the issues with the telcos network buildout in the US, or BDUK here)
 
Bob
12:20 AM
@bertieb Eh. TBH, I think we would've done alright with the original plan. But that was proposed by the previous government, so of course the new one had to change it (they were opposed to it ... for the sake of being opposed).
Apparently the original plan "cost too much". So... they paused rollout for something like a year, spent a crapton on reinvestigating other tech, then bought a large amount of new copper to replace *some of * the shitty century-old stuff.
 
@Bob Ahh fair enough. I've been away from /. for much much longer than I was away from here, so my knowledge (such that it was) is way out of date. I suppose a government has to do something, even if it's 'blame the last lot / the other guys'.
 
Bob
And of course in another decade ... we're gonna need a FTTP upgrade anyway. Bleagh.
 
Does indeed sound not far removed from situation here- promise of "world class" service → money given to (virtual) monopoly → only way promise could have been fulfilled as stated is if network magically came into existance with announcement
 
Bob
Original FTTP would've been capable of 1Gbit, pretty sure. 100Mbit being the currently-available max, but fairly easy to upgrade.
 
Can't wait for my FTL!
 
12:23 AM
The problems of hitting a moving target I guess
 
Bob
The VDSL stuff they're doing? Probably never going to go above 100Mbit. 200-300Mbit if really lucky, considering the state of the copper.
HFC can go higher, but ... shared. Better hope the neighbours don't like internet!
 
@Bob BT here have been experimenting with some ways of squeezing more out of the copper... will have a dig to see if I can find what I briefly came across the other day
 
Bob
@bertieb I think if they went ahead with the original plan, it could've gone alright. Yea, probably would've run over budget and been delayed, but not so much as it is now.
The change of plans seems to have caused most of the harm.
And now they're complaining that there aren't enough subscribers.
 
@MichaelFrank So where is @burgi's picture then? :)
 
Bob
Apparently not as many people feel like subscribing to the 100Mbit tier, especially when it's physically impossible to reach those speeds.
What a surprise. *cough*
 
12:25 AM
@DavidPostill One moment...
 
Bob
@bertieb Put it this way: a good chunk of the copper will drop out when it rains. And that's on ADSL(2+)
That's the stuff they want to replace. With more copper.
 
If you'll forgive what is likely a regurgitated press release
@Bob I'm trying to decide which one to go with; turd/polish, pig/lipstick, cracks/paper
 
Bob
> but it’s also expensive and time consumer to deploy
 
Hey ho. Could be worse; could be tin cans and string
 
Bob
At what point do you just run fibre to the bloody property and be done with it?
 
12:28 AM
@Bob Exactly
 
Bob
This obsession with squeezing every last drop out of outdated (and expensive!) copper is insane.
 
Maybe it'll be a national asset if the price rises even further; then it can be dug up and sold off
 
Bob
@bertieb Uh. That's what they were doing with the copper replaced by FTTP.
Also, come to think of it, I don't think the existing silos are big enough for VDSL.
They're gonna have to replace those too.
 
@Bob I'm sure they'll get that done just in time to be obsoleted by the next round of tech :P
But must dash, past my bedtime; night all o/
 
Bob
Oh. And the coax/cable runs off above-ground poles, while the ADSL/phone copper (and FTTP, if it were done) run underground. Guess which one's more likely to go down?
@bertieb 'night
 
12:33 AM
(if I'm not back for a year and a half again, remind me about the stern words I was going to have)
Cheers!
 
Bob
@bertieb Yea, but... apparently future-proofing costs too much now. So pay double or more over the next ten years for the same end result.
@bertieb lol.
 
@Burgi @DavidPostill
Ugh... It's sideways. :<
 
Bob
@MichaelFrank ⃔
@MichaelFrank ↶
 
It wasn't sideways when I saved it.
 
@MichaelFrank Nice :)
 
1:06 AM
@MichaelFrank for a moment I thought it was an SE T :p
Also I have no idea what draining the flea power is
 
blah, for whatever reason, bVNC (Android VNC client) does not want to authenticate with my cloud desktop any more. I went so far as to generate new Ed25519 SSH keys. I had to pass the connection through ConnectBot, port-forward the VNC port (which is closed at the firewall level and accessible only via SSH), and tell bVNC to connect to the local port.
 
Bob
@bwDraco Do you mean you've always tunneled over SSH, or that it only works over SSH now?
 
knock knock
Anyone here know how to adjust HDD spin-down times on Windows?
I remember using an exe before that did just that, along with some "acoustic" settings. Now my drive spins down after about 20 seconds of inactivity
If anyone here knows the name of that app, I'd really appreciate that.
 
1:23 AM
Is that the "turn off hard disk after" setting?
 
@benN Nope, not that. Minimum for that is 1 minute.
 
Bob
@pandalion98 The firmware one? Depends on the drive.
e.g. some WD drives have an official utility
But running it on an incompatible drive can kill the drive.
@pandalion98 ^
 
@Bob I'll try it out. Mine's a WDC WD10JPVX
says on the site I shouldn't run it on incompatible hardware.
yolo
 
Bob
@pandalion98 Yea... can break things
 
On second though it might be a bad idea.
 
Bob
1:30 AM
lol
@pandalion98 Oh, for that particular drive, try community.wd.com/t/…
The last one on that thread looks promising. Needs to be done from Linux but it should persist into Windows after a reboot.
 
@JourneymanGeek I don't know where my SU t-shirt went :(
@JourneymanGeek It's the act of taking the battery/ac out of a computer and attempting to turn it on.
 
@Bob It's always tunneled over SSH. The problem is that the app's built-in VNC-over-SSH functionality keeps failing to authenticate using my SSH key. ConnectBot can, though, and is able to forward the remote ports to localhost so that the VNC client can connect to localhost to reach the server.
 
Bob
:\
 
It used to work.
To tell you the truth, I have to do this on Windows, too. PuTTY forwards the VNC port, while TigerVNC connects to the local port to access the server.
 
Bob
1:53 AM
@bwDraco Is there any reason you need to tunnel over SSH?
Does VNC not support TLS & client certs?
 
VNC is not by itself a secure protocol. When used over the Internet, an attacker can easily intercept and read the traffic.
SSH tunneling is the most common way to secure it.
 
Bob
ah.
 
Besides, I would have to open the VNC port through the firewall, which would create a significant vulnerability.
SSH tunneling avoids the need to open the port to the Internet. The port can be accessed through the tunnel without exposing it to attackers.
 
Bob
@bwDraco apparently some clients support TLS as an extension to VNC?
 
Again, the port would need to be opened to the Internet.
The VNC protocol only supports password authentication, and the password is sent in plaintext (unless, of course, it is wrapped in some other encryption protocol). Even with TLS, this is considerably weaker than the public-key authentication SSH supports.
VNC itself was never really designed to be secure. That's why most folks wrap it in SSH.
 
Bob
2:08 AM
*shrug*
<== uses RDP
heck, I use xrdp over any VNC server/client
RDP clients are just so much nicer than (Tight|Real|Blah)VNC
> Comment by OVH – Monday, 13 February 2017, 14:54PM
The local vac in SYD is now fully configured, we are doing the last tests.
:D :D :D
@allquixotic @noitsbecky ^ OVH Sydney should be up soon!
> They do appear to have picked up direct capacity on at least one cable system between the US and AU though.
:D direct link to BHS?
maybe I can set up my own low-latency VPN? :D
wow, it took them over two months just on the ddos protection travaux.ovh.net/?do=details&id=21860
@bwDraco Is there any particular advantage of VNC?
 
It's a Linux server.
 
Bob
@bwDraco Is that the only reason?
Hm. Apparently one is that it's easier to share a screen (session) over VNC, where RDP prefers (enforces?) independent sessions.
Oh yea. The other Linux-only one was NX. @JourneymanGeek liked it :P
I'm not really a fan - the client sucks. Or did in 3.
 
NX I'd cross platform
Is even.
 
I'd rather not go through the trouble to do this.
The VNC server I use has its own X server.
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Server?
@JourneymanGeek IIRC, cross-platform client and Linux-only server.
@bwDraco Apparently xrdp literally wraps a VNC session in an RDP session.
And some people think it's faster o.O
Maybe VNC is a rad too chatty...
 
2:24 AM
@Bob I think I've tried that before. The Microsoft RDP client for Android doesn't like it.
Oct 13 '15 at 5:14, by DragonLord
> Your session ended because of a protocol error. If this keeps happening, ask your admin or tech support for help.

Error code: 0xd06
(see context)
 
Bob
@bwDraco Hm, interesting. I've only ever used RDClient with Windows' RDP server.
usually SSH rather than RDP/VNC to Linux :P
 
@Bob cross platform both
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Oh. Was that a NX4 thing?
 
ok that is the Last time i am wearing a (natural) bear skin in the woods.
no they couldnt just Look could they :-)
 
They're all carrying shotguns... Do they think they're suddenly gonna stumble across the most elusive creature on land?!
 
3:00 AM
I had a couple of docks for these things hanging around at work for AGES...
I could never find the keyboards, so I figured they must've been lost and binned the docks.
Guess what I just found...
 
the keyboards ? like a box of them matching the docks you already tossed
 
Bob
@MichaelFrank wait. what's the point of docking keyboards at such an awkward angle
 
lol it's a charging dock
But yea... I found one of the keyboards.
 
well you can still toss it, i woudnt want to have to re-dock my keyboard
 
Bob
@MichaelFrank ...so you can't use the keyboard while it charges?
 
3:06 AM
Hey man, I don't make the rules!
I believe it was marketed as a multimedia keyboard. So I guess you'd use it from your couch. meaning that you'd dock it when you're finished with it.
 
3:18 AM
I did that once, with a projector, wirless keyboard. once then took it back. one of them mini keyboards would be a better thing for remoting the TVPC
 
Hey HP, don't tell me my cartridge has ink, then "check" it for 10 minutes while secretly using the remaining ink before telling me "Oops! Your cartridge is empty!"... grumble grumble
 
3:35 AM
@MichaelFrank ...the ink level indicators aren't all that accurate. I've had multiple cartridges run dry when the printer claims there's ~20% left. I actually pull out the cartridge and shake it to get an idea of how much ink is left.
 
These are pretty slim cartridges, I'd be surprised if anyone could tell a full cartridge from an empty one.
 
@MichaelFrank my current printer has visible ink tanks :p
 
@JourneymanGeek My current printer is whatever happens to be at the building I'm working at. This printer isn't mine, it's for a rep down country that is having trouble with their current one.
Link only answer and it's dead! Nooooooo! D:
 
@Bob That kinda works, thanks.
 
4:23 AM
Sooooooo bored
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek floof.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:02 AM
Good point--making no decision is itself a decision. So that's a THIRD option I have to research!
2
 
Bob
6:34 AM
LOL
@JourneymanGeek ^ that is so me (BL, Skyrim, ...)
GOOMHR?
 
Lol.
And I'd just grab whichever is nearer :p
 
6:55 AM
I got braces!
 
Bob
on a whim? :P
 
On your pants?
 
7:13 AM
@Bob ditto
 
Lol
Hm. 2 downvotes in 2 days.
One on an older question. Least it dosen't look serial.
 
7:39 AM
I can't have LastPass Enterprise downgraded to free version without contacting their support, who do not respond by the way.
Ever since they were acquired by LogMeIn folks started looking for something else by the way. Maybe I should move on?
@Rahul2001 Makes it a good reason to move to India!
 
8:12 AM
@Boris_yo Forget the clouds. Bring your passwords back home. Make passwords great again
@JourneymanGeek Who was it? I kill them!
 
No idea :p.
It's not a huge deal. Unless it keeps happening. Then a worst I go poke a cm
 
What software can download websites?
Or only specific pages?
For example if webpage has calculator. Does it get downloaded too?
Or HTML real-time editor. Will it get downloaded and still be functional offline?
@OliverSalzburg And what software did you use to bring them home?
 
8:37 AM
@Boris_yo depends on if it's server side or client side
 
morning
 
theoretical how would one do plagiarism on SE?
 
@Burgi completely copy an answer word for word from another source.
Even if you attribute.
 
@JourneymanGeek How can webpage be client side?
 
8:47 AM
@Boris_yo content can be client side. Say js things
 
hmmm...
 
@Burgi that's essentially the simplest definition of it.
 
i won't pry further
 
Bob
my owncloud server's cert expired and I'm too lazy to set up letsencrypt
a web page is always client-side
 
I do often base answers off external sources. I paraphrase, cite, quote parts of it and test myself.
 
Bob
8:49 AM
it can be generated by server-side code, but the page itself is client-side... which can then submit data to the server again
 
@Burgi general questions of that sort are fine
 
Bob
 
heh
 
Bob
!!learn motherofgod <>https://i.stack.imgur.com/XTgJs.gif
 
@Bob Command motherofgod learned
 
8:59 AM
i just noticed my minion has pushed a commit to the repo at midnight last night
 
@JourneymanGeek Yes. There is JS. I think this one has it: quackit.com/html/online-html-editor
 
9:14 AM
not only is this project meant to have gone live on friday but his commits are AWFUL
> End of day commit.
 
@Burgi never go live on Friday.
 
Is there anyway to keep track of multiple processes and restart them from python ?
I could use supervisord but the problem is that the number of process is dynamic
 
@HackToHell that isn't what Python is typically for :p
 
@JourneymanGeek yeah but sometimes the reality is that you have to go live on friday
 
@HackToHell I think your problem definition needs clarity. How are you going to keep track of what processes need running?
 
9:17 AM
especially when a TV advert is going out and it relies on this page...
 
@JourneymanGeek good question :P
I have no idea
Waiiit
I can push this into our microservices docker image :D
 
@Burgi then it needs to be earlier :p
 
yay headache solved
 
Cause shit breaks.
@HackToHell satori? :p
 
agreed but in this instance its his fault because he insisted he could get it done in 10 hours
1 day = 8 hours
it still wasn't done when i left on friday and that was hour 16...
 
9:20 AM
Ah. Management lesson?
 
yup
 
I'd be a little more profound if they actually taught us human management theories but people often underestimate problems
 
i warned him 3 times that he should do the super simple, quick and dirty solution because we didn't have time
 
Ah
Problem with vampires. :P
 
10:05 AM
@Boris_yo KeePass
 
10:39 AM
@JourneymanGeek yeah \m/
 
 
2 hours later…
12:15 PM
ooh
My meta.se question got reopened
 
@JourneymanGeek linky?
 
7
Q: Could we get a little more visibility on changes that affect the whole network?

Journeyman GeekI had a user on chat go O_O SO's topbar is all funky now @JourneymanGeek would've been nice if, y'know, they asked for opinions on SE meta Bob's one of my core users. Unlike me, Bob codes. Bob vaguely got caught by surprise by these changes. Bob even uses SO, and didn't know about it....

 
@JourneymanGeek was it actually @Bob that said that?
 
@Burgi yes
It was in fact @Bob who said that
 
Feb 15 at 1:37, by Bob
O_O SO's topbar is all funky now
 
12:23 PM
i like the new topbar
 
Feb 15 at 1:39, by Bob
@JourneymanGeek would've been nice if, y'know, they asked for opinions on SE meta
 
i can't wait for them to roll it out to SU
 
@Burgi more that there's entirely no input outside SO, if they do
 
:/
 
@Burgi Flagged (as abusive). The new top bar is horribad. It's too big. There is nothing to distinguish it from the content. Stuff is in the wrong place :/
 
12:25 PM
@DavidPostill its not bigger ._.
 
@JourneymanGeek Taller to be precise
 
10
A: There is a new navigation topbar on the SO

Journeyman GeekSE will be doing this on the smaller sites eventually. And well, some of the issues people have with it feel feels a bit like source:xkcd It also actually takes up less vertical space and uses horizontal space better (It dosen't use more, but moves things around a bit. Feels bigger to me) ...

 
its much cleaner, easier to read and allows faster, more concise access to the questions
 
its actually about the same total thickness as the current topbar + title
but places like worldbuilding and judaism... are going to need a lot more work
 
SU/SF should be quite quick
 
12:27 PM
My issue is more that its "SO first", when its getting rolled out elsewhere eventually
 
erm
 
@JourneymanGeek 60px vs 34px
 
so how do i go from one site to another in the new menu?
 
@djsmiley2k there's a hamburger menu all the way to the right
 
i regularly flip between su, arqade and a few others
ah ok
 
12:29 PM
@djsmiley2k You use the UI element above the navigation
 
I don't know right now where i can go to test this new navbar out
 
i think that i must be the only person that likes it...
 
Plot twist: It's the browser's URL bar
 
@djsmiley2k its live on SO
 
yeah but so is 'special' as in the chat isn't linked... etc
 
12:30 PM
apparently chat being on the bottom is "good enough"
 
You have to scroll all the way down the notifications to "see all inbox items"
 
ewwww
 
@djsmiley2k Huh. Chat is linked in the same place?
 
ah, so it is
Also, if we do get it, remind me, and I'll do a meta Q&A on where the heck everything is
 
12:40 PM
@JourneymanGeek I'm sure that is when not if
 
@OliverSalzburg I am aware of it. Does not allow auto-sync between devices.
 
@DavidPostill ;p
6-8 weeks an all that ;p
 
@DavidPostill i was ewwing at burger on the right
 
@djsmiley2k this is a complaint I have heard a few times
 
@JourneymanGeek on a wide sreen it's even further
 
12:49 PM
rofl
not reeeeeallyyy
 
yus rly
i hate usimng a mouse
the change is ~30px
increase of 1000%
making me move my mouse around 1000px more
the change is ~30px
 
it dosen't use as much of the width as the old one
 
and concidering how many pages dont respect my browser width :/
 
very few seem to work with mine
 
everything is absolute these days, its stupid
 
12:56 PM
Agreed
 
you must look at crazy sites
 
all the ones i look at are responsive
 
thats my desktop on this laptop
 
tbh, I think every designer needs to have a 1366x768 (or 1024x768) and a UHD display
;p
 
12:58 PM
even su doesnt work
 
all frontend designers should use browserstack and follow the fracking browser testing spreadsheet
 
@Burgi so you dont use su? :D
 
i don't have a micro screen like you
 
lol
 

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