« first day (2134 days earlier)      last day (2901 days later) » 

Bob
12:00 PM
o.o
@Burgi What kind of half-arsed operation did you join o.O
 
the only one that would hire me
:(
 
:<
welcome to my world
 
none of you have any right to complain about bad SCM practices until you've used one of these:
"File is locked by 123456"
!!no
 
Bob
@allquixotic Does "not using SCM" count?
 
12:13 PM
also that picture is false-advertising; no way would any company invested in mainframe ever let someone touch Endevor with a tablet
 
Bob
cause that seems to be what @Burgi is dealing with
 
@Bob probably better than using actively bad SCM ;p
hey, nightly backups of a file server is SCM of a sort ;p
 
Bob
heh
 
unless they don't have backups, in which case aiosejfoiajsoipfvjodsvoiajierofgjarsejigfjsdrojgvoijstbviosujtroi
 
Bob
we recently finished migrating from CVS to svn
Unfortunately, my boss hates git :(
 
12:14 PM
Double-Ouch!
 
Bob
another team is in the middle of a transition from VSS to svn
 
okay, well, SVN isn't the worst thing in the world; I would take it over PTC Integrity any day of the week and twice on Sunday
it takes a special kind of ignorance to hate git
 
Bob
It's not terrible, but I like my local commits enough that I'm using a git bridge
 
he probably had a bad experience with a nasty merge or something that has scarred him for life
 
Bob
lol
gotta admit git isn't nearly as straightforward as svn
but it's much more powerful and less likely to toss you into a giant pile of merge conflicts
if I break my git repo, "ok, let's try to fix it"
if I break a svn repo, "screw it, starting over"
 
12:17 PM
@JourneymanGeek: Around?
 
Merge conflicts are bad, so let's make sure only one person at a time can do work on our code! Yeah, because we hired a team of 10 so 9 people can sit idle while 1 works
 
Ugh I hate merge conflicts
people need to update their repos more frequently
 
That's PTC Integrity. That's magic proprietary Win32-only software.
 
Bob
@allquixotic Isn't that the VSS model too?
 
yeah, but VSS is also terrible
 
Bob
12:18 PM
lol
the team that was using it can't figure out svn
 
if you can't figure out svn, you shouldn't be allowed to get a degree in a field that would land you a job at an IT shop
2
 
Bob
@allquixotic remember, they deal with Progress
 
Thats what Linus would say
 
Bob
which is such an ironic name it's not funny
 
@Bob gitter
 
12:22 PM
They should have named it Titanic Version
 
!! s/Pro/Re/
 
@allquixotic @allquixotic remember, they deal with Regress (source)
 
Bob
@allquixotic I like how they claim it's the most widely used for the mainframe environment
 
Anybody have rights to perm delete superuser.com/a/1087075/517335 ... didnt mean to post this..
 
Bob
Maybe in all three of the deployments still existing :P
@GuitarShoeDave only visible to 10k users
unless you accidentally posted sensitive data, there really isn't a need to do anything more
there's 5 other deleted answers on there, one being spam
 
12:29 PM
But other users potentially can see it right? :P
 
Bob
@GuitarShoeDave nothing sensitive there, so not a problem
 
coolbeans
 
@GuitarShoeDave Any 10K user looking at the question could see it.
 
Bob
if there was something sensitive, SE team can purge
 
I meant for it to be a draft.
That would only be visible to me
 
Bob
12:31 PM
purging answers is extremely exceptional and rarely, if ever, done
I don't think mods can
 
@allquixotic LOLOLOLOLOL
 
Darn
Even @JourneymanGeek ?
Anyhow no biggy. Was going to make some phone calls related before posting anything.
 
@Bob Mods can remove entries in the edit history. There was a change made to allow this without involving devs. IIRC it takes two mods acting together to do this.
 
Bob
@DavidPostill Oh, when did that happen?
 
@DavidPostill yes
 
12:34 PM
Was going to attempt to call some of these guys
And just question the OP
 
21
A: Allow moderators to hide a revision

bluefeetUp until last week, moderators would have to contact the Community Managers to redact private information from a post, but thanks to Jarrod this is now been turned on for moderators to handle. By going to the post revision page, mods will now see a redact option: Choosing this, you'll be...

@Bob Feb this year.
 
Bob
Ah, very recent then
Must've missed that
 
@Bob I don't know what happens if they try to delete the only revision ...
 
there will be no history of such a revision existing.
 
12:38 PM
@GuitarShoeDave That would make for a way cool answer :)
@jokerdino So no answer would exist?
 
you will edit the post to remove the sensitive info, won't you?
 
Bob
@DavidPostill That answer says they can't delete a revision, but can redact details from it
 
this sounds almost philosphical in nature
 
Bob
I don't really see anything sensitive in @GuitarShoeDave's answer, tbh
 
12:39 PM
@Psycogeek I did my best but it seems motor is in the way of lifting up cover. Not motor but gear actually.
 
Bob
> you'll be provided with the standard editing controls where you can remove the sensitive details
 
@bob: I just was hoping to not mislead anybody and add on to it before posting something.. That's all. And the mistake was made =(
 
Bob
@GuitarShoeDave Then no harm in leaving it
In fact, you can edit later and undelete the answer.
Doesn't matter if this is in the revision history.
Redaction/full deletion should only be for things like passwords or address details you might've accidentally posted
(even passwords are a stretch... change passwords)
 
@Bob So you could just delete everything from the post. The post would appear empty with no edit history (except visible to community managers). "Community Managers can see a list of all redactions and review the changes made if needed."
 
My thoughts are that Wi-Fi is only used as Fidelity within the Logo context.. However originally it may have been used without the Logo context (archived posts).. however something occurred in 2002 which separated them..
 
Bob
12:42 PM
@DavidPostill You'd be left with an empty post, but the post itself would still exist afaict
 
@Bob Agreed
 
zombie edits....
can you restore to edits earlier than the redacted edit?
 
Bob
A 'restore' (rollback) actually just copies the content across and makes a new entry
 
so you can in theory reintroduce redacted information
 
Bob
Hard rule: no one (mod or otherwise) can change the actual revision history list. SE team might be an exception.
Mods can edit the text of a single history item, but cannot remove the item itself
@Burgi no... the redaction does not introduce a new edit
presumably you'd have to redact each edit independently if many of them have the sensitive info
 
12:46 PM
redaction removes details all over the history
 
Bob
(this is all from reading that cm post...)
@jokerdino does it? it says text editor
 
let me find one where we redacted a post.
 
Bob
> the standard editing controls
or maybe I'm misinterpreting it
shrug
eh, if you've used it you'd know better :P
 
There
@Bob: I edited it.. Hopefully that works and makes a statement.
 
Bob
@jokerdino hm... I don't see how that differs from what I said earlier?
 
12:49 PM
@DavidPostill I was wrong
 
to me that suggests that you can go back to an earlier edit (one that isn't redacted) you can reintroduce that information
 
Bob
@Burgi no, redaction changes the history
 
@Bob because that redaction happened after all edits were done?
wait, let me go through this again
 
pics
 
Bob
afaict you'd just go redact every history entry so no entry contains the sensitive info
1.

password


2.

password
blah

3.

blah
1.

redacted


2.

redacted
blah

3.

blah
That's how I'd guess it works
where 1 and 2 would be redacted independently..?
 
12:52 PM
no. we only redacted 1.
 
Bob
@jokerdino hm... sounds risky, depending on how the deltas work
 
@GuitarShoeDave we can purge revisions. I THINK a redaction wipes out all older revisions...
also I never seem to get those right, so a edit and flag is a good idea
 
@JourneymanGeek: thanks
 
@Bob it worked out fine
 
> Cutlery with engraved motif, Please don’t take it again. I want everything to look amazing for a client lunch. Odd cutlery looks awful
 
Bob
12:54 PM
@jokerdino yea, just wondering what would happen if there was a conflict... I've tried to redact things from SCM before, which is a pretty similar concept :P
 
from coffee-smell girl to all staff...
 
@Burgi you do realise that defining people by smell is probably a dog thing.
 
:)
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek is there an earlier revision before the #1 in @jokerdino's link?
 
no, that was the original post that we edited to remove sensitivities.
 
Bob
12:56 PM
heh, you could always test it out in a sandbox post I suppose
 
@Bob I know it works
but its a bit twitchy
 
user215373
Hi
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek I meant the purging of previous revisions
 
I do know I need to run the redaction request on the latest revision I want to keep
 
Bob
which isn't mentioned at all in the MSE answer
 
12:57 PM
@JourneymanGeek it's definitely not intuitive. we were trying to redact it for like an hour or so.
 
@jokerdino yeah, it isn't
@GuitarShoeDave edit, flag, link me the post ;p
 
user215373
Hi everyone
 
I need a second local mod tho
 
@JourneymanGeek: ok one second
 
Bob
To clarify, moderators cannot hide a revision. That's not what the tool does. What happens is a moderator essentially suggests an edit to the revision and, if approved, the content of that particular revision is completely replaced with the new content. We do have an indicator in the revision history when a revision has been redacted, which gives the reason for the redaction in a tooltip. It's currently only visible to moderators, though I can't remember if there was any reason not to show it to all users. We may just make that visible to everyone. — animuson ♦ Feb 7 at 19:12
 
12:58 PM
(its funny that I need to say 'local mod')
 
Bob
shrug wouldn't purging older revisions be hiding said revisions?
 
@Bob see what @jokerdino said ;p
and "its a bit twitchy"
 
Bob
eh, I'm just going by MSE posts
but afaict from there revisions are never, ever, actually removed (even from the public history)
the content changes but the revision numbers are kept..?
 
Bob
@GuitarShoeDave I'm still wondering why you'd want 'potentially misleading' info redacted
it's... not exactly sensitive, and not trusting deleted answers is a given
shrug if mods are willing to do it, but still feels rather overkill to me
 
1:01 PM
@Bob tbh, redaction is such a PITA, I just want to see if we can get it working reliably.
 
curse my n00bness that i can't see the answer...
 
Bob
yea, we all mess up and write incorrect answers that need to be edited or deleted, but just wrong info in deleted history does no harm to... anyone, really. maybe to your pride.
 
lol @Bob looks like you guys can't see what was redacted or where.
mod specific info. wipes the floor.
 
Bob
@jokerdino we can't see that a redaction happened, but at the same time I don't think redaction has the power to change more than the post body
 
user215373
Hi bob
 
Bob
1:02 PM
'lo
 
@Bob well, you can't hide what's not there.
 
user215373
Do someone play coc here
 
yeah
 
Bob
@jokerdino What do you mean? Are you suggesting that animuson is wrong/lying and that revision history (numbers) is actually purged?
 
user215373
So you play coc
 
1:04 PM
*does
not do
 
Bob
> What happens is a moderator essentially suggests an edit to the revision and, if approved, the content of that particular revision is completely replaced with the new content.
If something else happens, that's either a bug or animuson is wrong/lying.
 
It seems like we are all saying the same thing.
 
Bob
Are we?
JMG definitely mentioned revisions getting purged
 
it's purged in the eyes of mods and users.
the devs probably can see them
 
@Bob I also said redaction was confusing ;p
@jokerdino I'm somewhat doubtful anything gets completely deleted, ever.
 
Bob
1:07 PM
when you say "purge", I take that as meaning the entire revision disappears. The actual history entry is gone.
Editing the content of a revision to remove specific details is not a purge
The revision itself is still there.
 
It does not disappear. It is redacted.
 
Bob
It's like you had 3 revisions before, if you purged #1 you only have 2 revisions left
if you redact #1 you still have 3 revisions, just with modified content
 
Yes.
 
Bob
I can agree that it's redacted. That's the whole point of redaction.
I can't agree that it's purged, based on what SE semi-officially said in MSE. Or, if it actually, really, does do that... then they're giving incorrect info.
 
We get some specifics of this wrong because we don't use it on a daily basis and it's hard to use it as it is.
@Bob purged in the sense that the content of the revision is not there.
 
Bob
1:10 PM
Ah. Eh.
English is fun.
 
@Bob I've done maybe 4-5 revisions so far
at least two of them didn't work out
 
There is a point of reference that says this revision was redacted. We just don't know what happened after it has been approved.
So, we manage to conveniently forget what actually was done.
 
Bob
I'm also confused by... well, @jokerdino said he redacted the first revision of a chain, while @JourneymanGeek said he redacted the last revision with the offending content.
 
@JourneymanGeek It definitely was a head meet walls situation when we did it.
 
Bob
Meanwhile, SE implies that each revision must be independently edited.
 
1:12 PM
@Bob did I mention 'its confusing'?
 
Bob
I suspect a fair bit of confusion is because at least one of you is actually misusing the tool :P
Considering you went about it in opposite ways
 
Probably me!
 
well, the first edit would be to edit out the sensitive info.
and then we redact the original post and we are good to go after that.
 
but you run the redaction command on the edited post
not the original.
 
Bob
@jokerdino Yea, but I wouldn't expect that to automatically carry on to subsequent revision entries, based on what SE people said. Unless revision entries are only ever stored as deltas.
 
1:13 PM
._.
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek ...wat
 
;p
Yeaaaah
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek => meta.stackexchange.com/a/274274/187228 => screenshot there underlines the redact button on the post containing the offending content
 
@Bob no it dont but it do
 
Bob
shrug you guys should test it properly sometime... or ask SE exactly how it works :P
 
1:15 PM
we do it on a need-by-need basis.
 
Bob
and apparently do it wrong sometimes
 
@Bob pretty much
 
well, we keep doing it until the data is redacted.
 
@Bob its my second least favourite thing about being a mod ;p
 
@JourneymanGeek What is your first least favourite?
 
1:18 PM
@DavidPostill not being sure if someone's a troll
 
I don't like wielding the mighty rolled up newspaper of modship to smite the unworthy.
If I must, its done.
 
Bob
hi
 
(well, and people complaining about q/a bans and being aggressive about it is a close third)
in any case, smiting is not the best part of being a mod. Unless its spammers.
 
1:23 PM
@JourneymanGeek It's a mod conspiracy!
 
>??
@kalash Clash of Clans?
I doubt it... most people are more mature here
 
oh
closes the game.
 
any ideas?
> This assembly is built by a runtime newer than the currently loaded runtime and cannot be loaded
 
@Burgi dll hell?
 
1:33 PM
looks like .NET hell to me
 
@Rahul2001 bbut it's fun
 
ol' skeeto suggests downgrading the project but doesn't mention how
33
A: "This assembly is built by a runtime newer than the currently loaded runtime and cannot be loaded"

Jon Skeet I have a .NET 4.0 dll project that is being called by a .NET 2.0 project. Is there a way to reconcile the difference in framework? Not that way round, no. The .NET 4 CLR can load .NET 2 assemblies (usually - there are a few exceptions for mixed-mode assemblies, IIRC), but not vice versa. Yo...

 
Oh
@Burgi @Bob might have gotten a similar issue when writing a growl/win10 toaster plugin
 
1:51 PM
you know what is missing?
 
@Burgi too noob for overlord
 
it flashes up when you have a successful edit but doesn't when you have a rejected one
 
2:10 PM
PROGRESS!!!!
i have a different error now :P
 
Bob
2:40 PM
@Burgi Where are you getting that?
What assembly is it?
If it's still that ASP.NET thing...
If you're using a third-party lib, either switch your application pool to .NET 4.x or try to get a copy of the lib built for .NET 3.5 or older.
 
@Bob
31 mins ago, by Burgi
PROGRESS!!!!
yeah i found an MS technet article that explained the error really nicely
 
TN? :P
because we need more overloadings of that acronym in this room
TechNet, Tamil Nadu, Tennessee, and Twisted Nematic (?)
 
Bob
Weird... my VM thinks it's 9 PM on the 25th of May.
 
lol
where?
@Bob it is....
 
Australia
 
2:45 PM
clearly you're in a time warp
 
That's what @Bob gets for living in the future.
 
yeah, I don't understand why you think it's not May 25th
 
@allquixotic maybe we need a TN registry, like we need a bob registry
 
Bob
And if I turn off auto time I can correct it, but if I turn auto time on again it goes back... weird
 
@JourneymanGeek tnregedit.exe?
 
Bob
2:46 PM
Why can't I set the NTP server? damn win10
 
HKEY_LOCAL_CHANNEL/Websites/Microsoft/TechNet
HKEY_WHOLE_WORLD/India/Tamil Nadu
 
Bob
of course sync from the old dialog fixes it
if I ever meet whoever designed the win10 settings app, I'm gonna punch em in the face
 
@Bob the Windows 10 settings app seems to derive from OS X's Settings app, which derives from KDE
OS X owes a lot to KDE... WebKit, for instance
originally khtml
 
@allquixotic kinda funny since I favour KDE over gnome or unity cause its less mac-ish
 
Bob
@allquixotic OS X's settings app is equally frustrating, if rather less glitchy
Funny that they come from KDE, seeing as I never particularly liked KDE's settings app either :P
Worst part of win10 is the search is much more file-focused now
 
2:51 PM
one day i'll come to work and everything will be safe, secure and working correctly
 
now I don't know where Mac got the idea for the "dock" at the bottom of the screen; that may have been a NeXT thing -- but KDE is responsible for a lot of stuff that Mac did, and Windows is also starting to mimic the Mac now
 
Bob
when most of the time I'm searching for a program or setting
 
@Bob hmm, might explain the inconsistancy.
@Burgi its either a dream or a trap then
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek You reminded me of GrowlToToast, so I'm hacking in image support now :P
 
@allquixotic chances are yeah, essentially OS X is at least a spirtual decendant of NeXT
 
2:52 PM
@Bob I notice that; and as a developer I get some random LBrta.c file from some random dependency I unpacked at some point showing up ahead of actual applications
 
hmm opus to aac takes a bit of a time
 
Bob
@allquixotic it kinda started happening with win8, but win10 made it a lot worse
win7 was good there
 
@Bob I need to fix up the linux side of the growl messenger at some point
 
Win10 is a copy of that
which, uh
 
I see the similarities to KDE's settings
 
2:54 PM
everything looks like that these days.
check gnome settings center
 
Bob
@allquixotic Not too sure... Win10 settings still keeps the win7 control panel style of categories/folders
 
@jokerdino yeah, except that each copy degrades the quality a little bit, like repeatedly encoding an MP3 in a lossy format, or repeatedly photocopying something
and the copy chain goes: KDE < OS X < Windows 10 < ... everyone else ... < Gnome
 
Bob
At a glance it looks similar-ish but the next step in is very different
 
@Bob there's a vague duplication
+ less inconsistancy than windows 8 but some
 
Bob
I don't think OS X is like that
OS X (and KDE) expose those subcategories right on the first page
not entirely sure which is better... Win10's one is rather frustrating to search manually
 
2:57 PM
KDE likes their sliders and drop boxes :) more complexity in KDE. OS X is really pared down
 
Bob
mhm, the KDE ones are really another level deeper
 
Windows has a basic settings menu and an advanced configuration menu (which can be confusing for some users).
 
a lot of the Windows things take you back to the bad old dialogs from Windows 7 or Vista
 
@allquixotic hence inconsistancy
 
because it's cruft on top of cruft on top of cruft
 
2:59 PM
there's some stuff in the new style
 
Bob
the second page (w/ 2nd level categories) on Win10 is only broadly related
 
and there's some legacy stuff in the old style
 
my favorite "legacy" dialog that isn't even resizable is the Environment Variables configuration app under System
 

« first day (2134 days earlier)      last day (2901 days later) »