@allquixotic Ah very nice, yeah I'm sure I didn't get some things right; it was off the top of my head with no testing but figured the concept should have been sound...

also good job on getting the rest of that working, nice!

More work than I'm willing... my insomnia last night just resulted in playing some homefront and more Chivalry... (which is a hilarious fun time)

Nothing like punching to death people wearing full armor until their head goes squash while they're trying to swing a huge sword at you

Silliness is baked right into that game

@JimmyHoffa testing and a bit of work got it going, and yeah, the concept was quite sound

so now the bot is running on PhantomJS

Does phantomJS have an interactive console?

right now my main goal is a stability/functionality test -- if the bot crashes significantly more often on PhantomJS, or if significant functionality aside from CoffeeScript (!!>) breaks, I'll consider reverting

@JimmyHoffa it does. and I have it in screen, so if I SSH'ed in, I could resume the screen and put stuff in the console, I think... not sure if it stops reading from stdin when you tell it to execute a script like I do

Can you run those commands through the console? Does the bot recognize them?

actually my Java driver spawns the phantomjs process as a child of the Java process; the screen is actually interacting directly with Java

the bot commands? no...

@allquixotic Darn. That was the whole point I figure of having an interactive console, to have diversion, the bot interacts with commands in/out http/http or when it receives in from console, it prints out to console all the while doing the same work internally

So you could do things like import/export via console

Or just generally interact with the bot silently without other people knowing what you're doing

well. I think it would be possible to write a little javascript snippet in the PJS interactive console that does actually execute a command

but you would have to know what to write. you couldn't just enter the literal command

then I just need to have my Java runtime forward stdin and stdout from Java to the PJS child

then you can screen -rS so-chatbot-driver on the server and do something like, I have no idea, this is imaginary code, bot.send('!!hello');

@allquixotic Aha! I know just what to do!

uno momento...

I agree it would be a nice feature, but my primary purpose in going with PJS was not the interactive console, it was the headlessness

hi @Ariane

hi uhm. my mom misclicked on my phone. sorry, gotta go.

@JimmyHoffa also, your idea introduces the concept of needing to specify to the bot whether it should output the results to stdout or to the chat, if you want to be able to import and export without anyone knowing, while still being able to get it to talk to chat sometimes

@allquixotic No no I know what to do! Just wait! :D

the message API is reasonably simple so it should be possible to extend it in this way, but...

okaaaaaaay....

@allquixotic Can you try something in the console for me now?

@JimmyHoffa not super easily, but i can get you ssh access to the server if you give me an ssh rsa public key

@allquixotic How do I give you one of those? I got putty up...

@JimmyHoffa well you would need to use Putty's key generator program (I forget what it's called) to generate an OpenSSH key and then convert the .pfx file to its public key format. it's not hard, you just have to know what you're doing, because PuTTY isn't super user friendly

it's all 100% GUI based though

ah

you need to run PuTTYgen

alternatively I have a full msys setup on my machine

the workflow goes: (1) one time only run PuTTYgen; generate a key; export to OpenSSH public key format; give me the public key; save the private key to a .pfx file. (2) every time you boot your machine or log in to Windows when you need to access my server run Pageant, another component of PuTTY, to load your key, then run PuTTY like normal

in msys, it's just ssh-keygen -t rsa then paste ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub into chat then wait

i need your email to mail you the port, user, and server info in any case as I'm not posting that here

password login is disabled or else i'd give you that (security reasons; people try to brute force it all the time)

you also need to keep in mind that the PhantomJS console isn't literally like the firefox console; it's phantomscript, which is javascript with added functions, sorta reminiscent of node

you would have to use the phantomscript command to evaluate javascript in the context of the current page in order to execute JS "in the browser" as you would in Firefox if you loaded the SO-ChatBot in firefox

so overall it might end up getting to the point where it's easier to write a bash script to do all of this

Yay! Got my package today with stuff from China after 2 months and 24 days!

imgur.com/a/GJ3Bn

some photos I took of the fireworks

most were blurred - I didn't have the tripod (it was being used by a better photographer with a better camera), and I'm not good enough to hold it steady for 1/2" to 2" exposures

currently uploading a set from earlier

@JimmyHoffa github.com/detro/ghostdriver/commit/…

some more from the earlier fireworks (9:00 PM and 10:30 PM for the kids)

imgur.com/a/xpfE6

also, imgur appears to have auto-rotated based on the EXIF data. nice.

Does anybody here use AMD Catalyst Control Center?

@ErraticFox I do

hey another fox

@Bob nice

@ErraticFox yup

@Bob Party's over ?

what does the fox say?

@Gowtham Don't you get a VGA Settings option in it?

@ErraticFox depends on whether or not you have VGA monitor plugged in.

I do.

@ErraticFox Yeah

It was there an hour ago, right before I refreshed Windows 8.1.

I use a VGA monitor

Now when I install it, I don't get that option.

I only get "Power" and "Performance" settings...

Control center is very buggy

The best you can do is wait for the next version of the drivers

or download a beta

Mine crashes if I expand HydraVision :/

@ErraticFox when you "refreshed" Windows 8.1, it probably installed an old or default graphics driver, replacing the latest Catalyst driver

just uninstall and reinstall Catalyst entirely, rebooting as needed

that's fairly typical. when Catalyst detects that the driver loaded for your graphics card is not an actual AMD driver, it falls back to supporting a much smaller feature set

@allquixotic I've uninstalled and reinstalled CCC already, it didn't work. So right now I'm uninstalling the driver and CCC, rebooting, then installing. Be right back.

Because AMD auto-detect kept saying I had the latest drivers.

make sure the driver date in device manager roughly corresponds, within a month or so, with the release date of the driver version you think you have installed

AMD Auto-detect is still saying I have the latest drivers, when I have none installed. ಠ_ಠ

At least I think I don't...

Don't use auto-detect :O

Then what do?

iirc someone else was moaning about it not detecting the GPU properly

Download it manually ?

I didn't define anything.

!! define lazy

@Gowtham lazy Unwilling to do work or make an effort.

>.>

@ErraticFox our bot can do that #lazier

I'VE BARELY HAD ANY TIME IN STACK EXCHANGE CHATS.

I can't find the drivers for my old stupid gpu. :(

What GPU ?

... HD 4650...

32 or 64 bit ?

64 oh and black edition

support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop/…

It's almost been a year since this poop drivers been updated. :\

It's classified as leagcy :/

Ha! I also have a dual-core 2.8

amd*

I hate it :\

DDR3 Ram 4Gigs

I can barely play anything.

@allquixotic I just made changes that should idealy make you able to call bot.interact('!!something or another'); and it will send responses back to console and treat the command like an owner executed command. (alternatively it won't work at all, also review the commit which is tiny just because I changed the is_Owner() code slightly...scary :D )

The response stuff is all handled by the msg object so I just mocked out what appeared necessary. Other stuff may be found necessary - for instance the msgId might be hard to find with what I did... but those things can be shaken out pretty easily

shouldn't be hard to figure out what other properties to add to the msg object to mock for console interaction

@Gowtham we didn't exactly stay long

@Gowtham Still, gives me the same options.

Device manager says the drivers date is 6/20/2012, but the one you gave me says 1/23/2013

I'm looking at the "ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series" Display adapter.

@JimmyHoffa what about the case of making it reply in chat itself? is that harder to do?

would be funny to insert the occasional lolcat into chat without any (apparent) prompting

o.O

@Bob AUP: you may only run ls and ps commands; anything else is considered overuse of the available resources

@Bob Are you looking for a small VPS?

@allquixotic You'd be lucky to get an OS and sshd running on 64 MB.

@CanadianLuke I have far more than enough. I just enjoy looking at these offers.

LOL OK

@Bob cp /usr/bin/bash /bin/ps

there, no longer breaking AUP

O.O

lowendtalk.com/discussion/19222/…

low end my arse

where did they even find a 100 GB disk?

Or an Opteron 248?

That's a 2003 chip O.O

(with about the power draw of a modern Xeon)

@Bob they probably went scavenging in the corporate headquarters of a busted dotcom.... apparently if you go to silicon valley you can scavenge some pretty amazing (for its time) hardware just sitting in racks in abandoned buildings

'course you gotta get over the fence, but, that won't stop desperate people

@allquixotic they wouldn't make much profit after power costs

might as well buy some new Xeons and sell mor expensive servers

> mor expensive servers

wouldn't take long to make up the difference, the customers would be longer-term and you wouldn't be bleeding money on power

but then how will the third world get hosting lol

Any programmers here wanna check a quick question in FP?

what's FP?

in the context you're using it i mean

@allquixotic Heh yeah, well first see that this bit works and then what you're talking about wouldn't be hard; just requires a different stand-in for the reply/direct-reply fake functions I wrote

you can see in bot.Message the real implementation of reply/directreply, it would be more similar to those...

Star me?

sigh My hair's falling off like there's no tomorrow :/

@Gowtham Eat more chromium-23!

@Gowtham got any cool newyear wishes ?

:12912835 Hah! Good luck! Better goal: Eat a large quantity of meat and scream like a viking when doing it at least several times

@Ash Well I do want a cat :P

@JimmyHoffa hehe

@Gowtham I've got two you can have, just gimme an address and I'll put them in a thermos box and mail them over

(seriously, if you want two cats, please take mine...)

:O

Cats are awesome

@Gowtham not these...

One of them doesn't clean itself and whenever we try to watch tv walks into the room, sits down, and yells non-stop. The cat yells I sware to god it yells.

It's hair is too matted and gross to pet it because it doesn't clean itself

@JimmyHoffa "rau"? "meow"? "meer"? "mah"? how does it talk?

lol

@allquixotic just a normal meow, at an abnormally audible level, usually while staring straight at us and purposefully when we're trying to watch TV

also it wont' drink from a water bowl because it's retarded, it only drinks from it's paw or dripping tap (I don't think it can do that cat-tongue trick) which means the water bowl is just a cesspool because it's always pooling the water out of it with it's paw

The other cat likes to pee on any of my kids toys left out because I think it's jealous

take my cats..please...

lol. wow. you have two awkward cats

@allquixotic I sware it's my wife, we had two cats before these and they were just as strange in their own right... I never had a weird cat until I met her, she just attracts them (as I was walking out the door this morning she told me her cat she grew up with scratched her and gave her cat scratch fever - which is along with many other ridiculous things about that cat... she's only ever had the weirdest damned cats)

Before these cats we had one that couldn't meow, and was this tiny ninja that wouldn't get near people (wasn't mean just ran away and was good at stayin away) and one that would eat anything. Leave bread out on the counter? Bread everywhere. Watermelon? He actually made it through the rind on one part before we caught him. Bag of Potatos left on the counter? Yep. Head of lettuce? Sure.

That cat would eat any food-like substance left out, we got in the habit of having nothing edible on a counter or non-cabinet space anywhere. Most food had to be behind closable doors with handles because cabinets the cat could get into if it tried (cat couldn't be left alone with a bag of cat food in the room for more than 2 seconds)

@Gowtham wish granted.

@JimmyHoffa lol

@Ash I want a real one

And convince the guy who owns this house to allow me to raise one :P

@JimmyHoffa lol wow

We're about to get a dog, which judging by my wife's luck with pets may be an absolute disaster...

our first cat was a normal indoor/outdoor cat who died semi-young (10 yrs) but didn't have any behavioral problems while he was alive, except that if you were touching paper, he'd get pissed... like, people weren't allowed to touch paper, and people who did touch paper would get bitten and clawed

our current Maine Coon cat is also 10 but she's very healthy and has no abnormalities whatsoever, she's just a happy ball of fur

on a senior diet and not as hyper as she was as a kitten, but she's aged very well

I have a cat in my home right now and I have plugged it in the back of my pc.

Growing up we had 4 cats (2 at a time) that were totally normal... only ran into the bizzaro cat land meeting my wife. I think she doesn't know the difference because her cats have always been weird as hell so she thinks I'm the weird one expecting the cats to be normal...

lol

Yay, new hat

i guess cats having health problems is just bad luck in a way, but cats having strange behavior isn't really health, that's just the cat's personality

like the one who'll eat anything

@allquixotic When we got it, it was 29 lbs... it was 22 (which was very lean actually- the thing was HUGE in size) when we gave it to my sister in law

We figure whoever had it before us didn't stop it from eating properly...

It's almost new year in India .So , Happy new year.

:)

Other than the eating thing (and it would also whinge very loudly and non-stop) it was the friendliest cat so (I'm pretty sure it was convinced everyone always had food so it was ultra-nice to everyone ever)

Another 13:35 hours for me

12:35 for me... There will be sufficient drinking tonight.

Feeding that cat was funny, pour the food in the bowl in the morning and at night, and we timed it - bowl empty in under a minute usually

Anytime there was food left we knew it was sick

@Ash happy new year !

It wouldn't chew

Where are you from @ash ?

He's from Housewares

@JimmyHoffa WOW

that's a very unhealthy behavior

that cat probably grew up as a kitten under starvation conditions and was programmed to horde and store all food it could possibly get its chops on

@allquixotic yeah, we had to put medicine on his food, it was a healthy cat so long as it's eating was controlled, though there was an underlying health issue causing the eating thing we suspect.

that's often the cause for such obsessive eating behavior

@JimmyHoffa I find that story about it being nice to everyone in hopes they have food to be really funny

"yes yes you like to pet me yes? well i will wither up and turn into a dead dried up dust ball if you don't feed me :( feed me now? ok more pets that's fine, you're going to feed me after, right? right?"

@allquixotic It would whinge non-stop very loudly and I'm quite certain this was in request of food (especially loudly if we were eating) - and it wasn't a normal sounding meow like the one we have now that just doesn't want us watching TV because it's a dick

That thing had a mrraruaraurarauuuuuaaaaarurrrauraruauuuu!!!! thing that it could just draw on as long as it wanted and far louder as this cat was very large and I don't mean fat

our cat is super comfortable with her consistent food supply -- she nibbles little bits at a time instead of gobbling it all down at once; we have plenty of various kinds of food in several places in the house; she doesn't seem worried at all that more food will stop appearing magically

she'll take just a little taste and walk away

@allquixotic I suspect it was an intestinal issue, I think the cat literally always felt physically starving

I don't think it was just in it's head, probably some underlying thing; it was far too serious about the food thing for it to be all in it's head

@JimmyHoffa hey, I totally used a lot of closures in a recent little program I wrote for work... is that about as functional as a procedural programmer saying "hey OO guy, I totally used a lot of enums in a recent little program I wrote for work... look, ma, I'm doing OOP!" :P

@allquixotic heh yeah a bit. Though it depends, a procedural guy could write good OO code and say that just like you could make that statement and have actually real FP code to back it up

I would elevate it a bit above that but FP is indeed more than just closures

Did you nest your closures? Did you use lots of generics?

Did you use lots of local variables and very few member level variables?

@Gowtham Kerala n u ?

Did you write code that accepts and returns closures?

@JimmyHoffa no nesting, but I'm a generics wacko of the highest order :D

plenty of local variables, and I started cutting down on member level variables except for some statics and consts

@allquixotic That's a good step, getting more comfortable with generics is a strong step towards FP because it allows you to abstract things far more while maintaining static guarantees

didn't write any particular function that both accepts and returns a closure, but as parameters to functions, sure, it seems pretty convenient

I even did something that surprised me in how... powerful it was, but I didn't know whether it was an FP-based concept or not

@allquixotic Yeah threading values as locals from function to function rather than using shared state is another big step, it's one of the main things that makes FP so maintainable because changes to a value don't effect a bunch of disparate places like when it's a shared member/shared state

the best way I can explain it is this: you know in C++ you can do std::cout << "hi" << "there" << "etc"" << endl? instead of << I had an object where a method returns itself after processing some operation

@allquixotic And this is how you write fluent interfaces :) It's similar to the interface for a monad

so obj1.foo(something).foo(somethingelse) etc

That is rooted in FP for sure

I think it's the same concept between C++'s operator<< on std::string and that sort of method chaining

just different looking syntax

I couldn't explain C++'s << operator if my life depended on it, my C++ exposure as been minimal and years ago

in .NET you'll notice stringbuilder works like this

@JimmyHoffa well... operator<< returns a constant reference to the left-hand side object with an operation applied to it based on the value of the right-hand side, so effectively it's like calling string1.append("hi").append("there")

you can do:
new StringBuilder()
  .Append("This ")
  .Append("is ")
  .Append("Awesome!")
  .ToString();

LINQ is a monad in the same way

I've baaarely done any LINQ, but done enough to understand extension methods, which I actually prefer instead of the "native language" stuff.... I've seen "LINQ to SQL" and it looks weird, but I'm happy to use extension methods on generic collections

Enumerable.Range(0, 10)
  .Select(x => x.ToString())
  .Where(x => x.Length > 1)
  .Select(x => Int.Parse(x))
  .First()

@allquixotic the key is all the extension methods accept an IEnumerable and return an IEnumerable so you can do the chaining, which is a monadic behaviour

the component of LINQ that allows that sort of method chaining and what we'd call "server-side iteration" or "server-side processing" in C terminology (as opposed to client-side processing, where you write a for loop) is all good for me; I like that. the component of LINQ that's like "we're going to make select valid syntax in naked C#!" makes me kinda bug out

That's where it comes from in FP, a monad is something that has an operation that satisfies a few rules and chiefly among them takes a monad and returns a monad so you can chain that operation

@JimmyHoffa I totally get monads now... as you were explaining that I was thinking of the gstreamer pipeline elements and my mind just kind of opened

@allquixotic Yeah, that's syntactic sugar as a part of the C# language, technically that's "comprehensive syntax" it's called which I don't care for either. It comes from the concept of "list comprehensions" in other languages

@allquixotic note the part where they "satisfy a few rules" technically they should follow some simple laws which gives you guarantees about their behaviour but the most noted fact of their behaviour is that they result in that fluent interface

That's how in Haskell where every single function is one statement - not multiple statements, they can still let you write code that appears as multiple statements, like the Enumerable.Range example above you can read as multiple statements but it's really just one.

the thing that confuses me a little bit right now is that I always read that pure functional stuff doesn't have any side effects; yet, when you're doing that sort of method chaining, each individual call has huge side effects, quite markedly in fact

you aren't using immutable objects or anything like that; quite the opposite... you chain your methods and that changes the internal state of the original object

@allquixotic Nah, they take something in, and return something else, what is changed in the process?

@allquixotic In C# yes usually but that's because of how people write it

@JimmyHoffa oh.... so they're not supposed to change the internal state of the original object, then?

as far as pure functional design

@allquixotic Generate a new one - in a pure language you can't change the internal state

In a pure functional langauge it's all immutable.

so you could go string1.append("HI") and then the "HI" wouldn't be in string1 if you printed it out, but the return value of string1.append("HI") would have it appended

is that how it works ideally?

@allquixotic ideally append would return a new string (in reality this is usually the case which is why you always hear "strings are immutable", strings actually for memory purposes work better in this way)

yeah, that makes sense now, but I don't think StringBuilder obeys that principle

It does

oh?

I thought StringBuilders were specifically designed to be mutable?

lol i just had the funny idea "you know, in OOP, our collection objects are almost always mutable... I wonder what would happen if you tried to design a language where the collection objects are immutable" and then I thought "list monad....?????"

StringBuilder constructs the whole string only once, if you append the strings together manually you construct the whole string with each appendage

which is why you always use stringbuilder when constructing strings in a loop

@JimmyHoffa yeah, that makes sense... it's just that you can call sb.Append("hi"); and the contents of the stringbuilder internally changes without having to go sb = sb.Append("hi");

@allquixotic It just adds "hi" to a List<String> internally

if the StringBuilder's internal contents were immutable, you'd have to do the extra assignment

StringBuilder could append in the same way

and be immutable

interesting

where a is the generic type like T

myListTheExpansionPack = Node 0 myList

myListGetsNegatives = Node -1 myListTheExpansionPack

appendToAList a list = Node a list

or with partial functions...

appendToAList = Node

linked lists are like caterpillars: They're cute! :)

@allquixotic here's a fun thought exercise: How would you implement a linked list that allows non-uniform type elements while maintaining static type checking (no "object" or reflection)

@JimmyHoffa that sounds like a very interesting problem

and non-uniform as in, they could be any type?

no contravariance or anything like that

@allquixotic Each element could be any type, regardless of the types of other elements

...a variable-length tuple of some sorts?

@allquixotic bingo. And now you know why tuples exist.

(and why they aren't variable length - can't be)

I don't understand how a site exists with tags like this. Makes me jealous they're having fun

well the generic type for tuple is variable length in C#, but when you define a specific type, you give it a static length

@allquixotic How do you mean variable length?

@JimmyHoffa well I mean they only defined one tuple type in the implementation, right? or do they literally have something like: Tuple<?> and Tuple<?, ?> and Tuple<?, ?, ?> etc

@allquixotic the latter :)

...if they did it that way, it would be a laughable amount of code duplication

O_o

I think it goes up to like 7

only 7? lol.

They kind of figured "You need more than a sextuple? On your own."

Steve Ballmer: 7-length lists should be enough for everyone

@allquixotic you don't often need more than a double or a triple...

@allquixotic well, at that point people end up creating a custom class to hold their values with properties, or making the elements uniform and using a list. The syntax of using a 7-tuple is pretty onerous..

yeah, especially instantiating it lol

I could be wrong in my recollection, I think it's 7

heaven forbid some of the elements have generics of their own

Just type "new Tuple(" and look at the constructor list in intellisense

I read that the C++ equivalent of generics effectively scopes out a Turing-complete programming language

you could write your C++ program in generics

I have no idea how, but you could

@allquixotic Yeah I've heard that of C++ "templates" they're called

But I shy away from C++ as a rule, so I wouldn't know much about it

I don't, but I try to use C++ like it's .NET; I only get laughed at 70% of the time

the other 30% of the time I'm talking to Qt programmers

@allquixotic Poor sods haven't realized desktop GUI applications are tote

hey :( desktop GUI applications are fine in some scenarios

hey :( your web browser is a desktop GUI application. "what are you going to run your web browser with?" "the web!" "yes, but how are you going to get to the web to run your web-web browser?" "the web!" etc.

I suppose, given a certain degree of efficiency of JS that we've not quite yet approached, you could justify writing almost any non-HPC app as a web app

certainly the portability and convenience aspects are a huge factor, but writing it to be a web app just because it's a web app without considering other aspects is a bit worrisome... I've seen some pretty awful uses of webapps

in any case, you always are going to need an OS with "plumbing" to at least do the proper I/O (networking, graphics, sound, input, etc) even if your only platform is the web... I just happen to be extremely interested in these kinds of plumbing software, to the extent that I've hacked on it in the past in the open source realm, and would love to be paid to hack on it as a job

@allquixotic Hehe yes, fine in many scenarios, I kid; mostly. There's just an exceedingly smaller return as time goes on...

it will all come back around. What once was old and all that; this whole "My machine's just a terminal to the vast megamachine!" has happened before and it will happen again

Though it's hard to fathom what would drive usage away from the superspasmodic beef that is INTARTUBE, but so it was hard to imagine ages ago when we walked away from the univac...

FINALLY GUYS, I FIXED EVERYTHING BACK TO NORMAL.

Please, for everything I've went through for the last 5 hours. I need someone to boost my self esteem...

I wish it was an hour...

@JimmyHoffa I had a colleague who worked as a sysadmin for 30 years at a company I interned at who felt the same way, who saw the trends of us going from centralized to decentralized and back again

you could say that we might start seeing more back to clientside with apps on mobile but many apps are currently cloud-based

I feel weird that I just thought that most of you guys are 2 1/2 times my age...

Eh, actually just twice my age... Around there more like it.

@ErraticFox you're 12?

I'm 19.

OH YOU SAID COLLEAGUE

My bad...

@ErraticFox ok, not twice your age then

just 28 here

1.45x or so

All I seen is "30 years in a job"

Then I thought of that.

I think way to much about random irrelevant stuff...

i actually was probably around 19 years old when i met that colleague :P

I'm too immature to have people that I could call my colleague... Let alone go to college (again, irrelevant).

umm, if you're going to talk about irrelevant stuff, then at least don't tell other people that it's irrelevant, because maybe they don't care if it's irrelevant :P but it seems awkward if you say that it's irrelevant :P

lol

It was... "Oh I'm too immature to have someone to call a colleague." Then BAM "Let alone, go to college." It even makes me question myself. I just point out that it is irrelevant, so people know I know, that it was out of know where... :s

CATPCHA = Cat Picture (pronounced "cat p'cha")

What.

!!maybe

!! define irrelevant

@ErraticFox irrelevant Not related, not applicable, unimportant, not connected.

See. Now you're doing it.

Is there a list of the !! commands?