@TheodoreA.Jones Unjust? You've missed the main ujustice of them all! That an innocent man should be punished and die while the guilty are acquitted. That is the unjust thing that must be reckoned with. Yet Scripture tells us about a lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world. A son who was to be bound and killed by his own father.
@Caleb I think Jesus is accepted by mainstream Christians to be a martyr, whereas Theodore thinks Jesus is murdered, and remembering Jesus' murder is a sin, because it is tantamount to honoring murder.
@Caleb That may be the whole reasoning behind Theodore's rhetoric.
@Caleb Fine. Then, in mainstream Christianity, Jesus is supposed to be the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies, and his sacrificial death is necessary for a resurrection to take place, so that he is perceived to be risen from sin, from death.
There was NOT any information from any source that would allow the exact purpose for Jesus' crucifixion to become knowable. If this factoid could have been known prior to his crucifixion he would never have been crucified. 1 Cor. 2:8 Your soteriological assumptive is an error.
@Anonymous Drop the "supposed"s and "perceived"s and that's closer to the gist of things. The important point is that what the Jews/Romans/Whoever else/Us did to him (murder, unfair trail and execution, unjustice, whatever) is just stage props compared to what was really going on.
@TheodoreA.Jones that is catagorically untrue. He was quite clear the night before he was betrayed that he knew what was going on and what was going to happen.
@TheodoreA.Jones You do injustice to the text to use that as proof for your case. That verse talks about "the rulers of this world" not understanding God's purpose. That doesn't mean that his purposes haven't been announced through the Scriptures or that nobody at all knew them or that they couldn't have been known. It just means what it says.
I am so close to the electorate badge. A few more days of voting and I should have it.
All this work and fret for an imaginary badge that proves I can click a mouse button multiple times in the correct location. Not quite as difficult as a boy scout merit badge.
@TheodoreA.Jones A secondary problem with your interpretation is that you are assuming everything is up to man to do/arrange/know. You're forgetting that GOD is sovereign and that Jesus was God. You're forgetting -- or maybe you've never heard -- that the triune God setup the deal whereby the Son would pay the price to buy a people back from death before that people was even created.
God is sovereign and Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh. " Jesus was God" is not true.
@Caleb He became (an accountable sin) for us so that we MIGHT become the righteousness of God. Your idea is "he became sin in our place and we are now the righteousness of God." Your conjecture stumbles at MIGHT.
@Caleb "everything is up to man'? Isn't it written "Save yourselves"?
@fredsbend "very few ever actually find the gate" and "MAKE every effort, on your part to have the faith to use it" or you'll surely disobey a law that when offended is a sin that is impossible to be forgiven.
@Anonymous Substantiation?
The truth about the crucifixion of God's only begotten son is for the Jew a stumbling block and to the gentiles it is foolishness.
"Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." Acts 2:40 "And those who accepted HIS message (that He authored and sent to them through angels) were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number." Acts 2:41.
The Upper Room
The Upper Room