TRPG General Chat

3:00 AM

The stat array you give seems to have a lot of point put in non-optimal places, unless there's a reason for a stat not divisible by 5.

Papayaman1000

@DuckTapeAl Things like HP, push strength, encumberance, et cetera, are tied to individual points.

DuckTapeAl

To change around your array a bit, how is your array mechanically better than 30/10/15/10/15/10?

nitsua60

@Papayaman1000 But why? What about the system makes that true? Is it built in that all characters will face serious challenges in all six dimensions? Is it your GM style?

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 Not quite. Though, I do have a party of three, so having a stabby-sneak, a medicine man, and a charmer might be a nice spread; but there's more you need.

DuckTapeAl

@Papayaman1000 Other than HP, that stuff was all tied to single points in D&D as well. Also, feats always required odd scores as prereqs. It still didn't make it a winning move to pick an odd score for any reason other than "I'm going to raise it later".

nitsua60

3:02 AM

You've said "cripplingly overspecialized" a few times, but aside from caricature I haven't heard how that actually plays out in your system.

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 Well... frankly, it's sort of built to avoid that, too. If you want to dump all your points past 10 into STR, go ahead, you'll suffer, but it's not completely inviable.

nitsua60

Please describe the suffering.

Papayaman1000

Ok... this is why I kind of added the point-buy as an afterthought. Should I just stick with the ranking idea?

nitsua60

(Because I believe "wheelchair-bound, mentally and socially retarded fighter with no basic pattern recognition and glass bones" was probably a caricature.)

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 85/1/1/1/1/1

nitsua60

3:04 AM

No, I get that it's mathematically possible. What I haven't heard (and am done asking for) is what 40/10/10/10/10/10 looks like.

DuckTapeAl

^

Miniman

@nitsua60 Or, more importantly, why it would be a problem for the player who chose it.

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 Think a hardcore body-builder, like Olympian weight-lifters. That guy would lift approximately 200lbs as a comfortable travel load.

DuckTapeAl

Also: We're both interested in your ideas, which is why we're engaging this much. We're not trying to tell you "do this, do that", we're honestly asking you how your system behaves under the conditions we're asking about.

Papayaman1000

It wouldn't be a massive problem, but warhammers can't fix everything (golden hammer fallacy aside).

nitsua60

3:06 AM

You say 40/10/10/10/10/10 "crippingly specialized" in your system, and I believe you. (Because you've played it, and I haven't.) I'd like to understand your system better, because I enjoy learning systems.

Papayaman1000

@DuckTapeAl I get that. I'm happy to have people look at any of my work critically.

nitsua60

@DuckTapeAl (I don't think my ^^ properly conveyed that I was trying to second your message, rather than draw attention to mine)

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 It isn't necessarily crippling, though somebody who spread things out would probably be a bit better off (if nothing else to get a few more HP and a couple mnor heals)

DuckTapeAl

So, like, if I make a fighter in 5th edition, and I give him an 8 Charisma and Wisdom, and build him entirely around killing things, then I can have a fun time. If the current goal isn't "kill the thing", then I'm going to take a backseat to the other party members, but that doesn't mean that I'm having a bad time, or that the game is broken.

@nitsua60 (I got what you meant.)

But for that fighter, I want to make my Str as high as I possibly can, because most of what I do depends on that.

Papayaman1000

@DuckTapeAl Right. And that's perfectly fine.

DuckTapeAl

3:09 AM

And 5th ed in particular makes one-trick ponies like fighters a lot more versatile, even within their narrow wheelhouse.

nitsua60

I really wish you'd explain why/how the spreading makes them "better off." Much of evolution tells us that specialization is pretty useful, right up to the point that I can't adapt.

DuckTapeAl

^^

nitsua60

You've said many times that in your system that specialization is disfavored to multiple competencies.

What pressures (on characters) make it that way?

Papayaman1000

Mind you, us humans prevail for just that reason.

nitsua60

[citation needed]

DuckTapeAl

3:10 AM

In every system I know of, the basic character building strategy is "make myself as good as I can at my main thing, while not being a hindrance otherwise". Systems use a lot of different rules to accomplish this.

What rules does your system use to encourage despecialization?

Papayaman1000

We're successful because we dumped a bunch of points into INT, which let us adapt to any situation or environment, with things like tools and clothes

DuckTapeAl

Example: In Fate, you have a skill pyramid. You only start with 1 skill at +4, two at +3, etc.

nitsua60

@Papayaman1000 You mean because we've specialized in brain just far enough that it frequently killed the mother to deliver the child?

Papayaman1000

Nothing other than having no class barriers.
(And I'm aware of Fate -- I love the system and it has lots of what I wanted to start with.)

DuckTapeAl

So you have to spread out and handle a bunch of different things, since you're not allowed to hyperspecialize like that. How does your system make that happen?

Papayaman1000

3:11 AM

@nitsua60 Touche.

nitsua60

@Papayaman1000 that's DEX, right? =)

DuckTapeAl

Okay. So then, a character with 40/10/10/10/10/10 is basically a viable character? Assuming it's built well otherwise?

Papayaman1000

@DuckTapeAl You could hyperspecialize if you wish. And 40(/10)* is fine. Just assume he's stuck against magical enemies and roleplay.

@nitsua60 ...I don't get this joke.

nitsua60

@Papayaman1000 Touche, being the term for admitting a point against you in fencing. If I score a point on you when fencing, I'd likely be using RL-dexterity. And in your system that'd be DEX, because it's a light weapon. =)

Papayaman1000

I guess it all ultimately just boils down to my playstyle on this specialization thing. I like to be flexible. Some people prefer to stick with a niche.

@nitsua60 With how much fencing I do, I'm sad I missed that...

I guess blame it o me being a web designer.

nitsua60

3:16 AM

@Papayaman1000 I mean, if you said that in your system all skill checks required the sum of two party members' modifiers/scores, then I'd say that the system is encouraging diversification. Or the median of all mods, maybe.

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 ...hmm.

nitsua60

Or if every [task] was indexed to two stats, circumstantially.

DuckTapeAl

You have mathematical room for 30 tasks at 2 stats per task.

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 I'd been considering that. Sort of a "Major vs Minor", where Minor wouldn't matter as much but could still sway the challenge.

nitsua60

So your front-liner tries to hit the ogre hard and needs STR and CON (because of the stench). But trying to hit the tiger hard needs STR and WIS, 'cause animals. Or trying to hit the enemy enchanter hard needs STR and CHA, to overcome the perma-suggestion they've got against harming them.

Papayaman1000

3:18 AM

Like, climbing a cliff-face. DEX is usually the move stat, but something like STR for gripping or WIS for finding the right footholds...

nitsua60

Sure. In those cases I'd say that the system is rewarding diversification.

DuckTapeAl

@Papayaman1000 Or Con because it's just a super long climb.

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 Pure combat, I don't normally check against pure stats for things like that. But I'll consider it.

nitsua60

How does your system require/enforce diversification?

Papayaman1000

@DuckTapeAl Or INT for knowing about common routes. Or CHA because... wait, it's always been the dump stat (lol).

@nitsua60 I think I'll stick with the "RANK 1-6 SYSTEM". It does this, it's more beginner-friendly, and it keeps from making that "special" fighter.

nitsua60

3:20 AM

@Papayaman1000 I'm just coming up with an example of how a system could require diversification. (In like ten seconds.) Another would be if the DM principle is to challenge a player on each stat before recycling.

(Though that just makes you want to raise the floor uniformly, I suppose.)

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 Ehhh... I'm kind of against that. Because, again, CHA is just sooo helpful (and myriad other reasons, but... come on, it's THE dump stat.)

DuckTapeAl

@Papayaman1000 You might not check against pure stats, but maybe you get two bonuses for each skill. One that's always applicable, one that depends on the situation. You always add your Str to Heavy Weapons, and you also add your Wis when fighting animals.

Papayaman1000

@DuckTapeAl Or erratic opponents.

DuckTapeAl

@Papayaman1000 Based on the skills you list, Cha would be my favorite stat.

Papayaman1000

Keep in mind, these all have secondary passive things. Like WIS for accuracy, or CON for pain resistance and HP, or DEX for evasion, or...

DuckTapeAl

3:23 AM

It sounds like it's basically magical effects that aren't directly harmful or healing, which is a really cool set of abilities.

Papayaman1000

@DuckTapeAl Yeah, I kind of tried really hard to make sure it's not a dump stat.

nitsua60

@DuckTapeAl I kinda like the idea of polling two of the character's stats: once for the thing they're doing (heavy weapon? STR. Cast damage spell? INT) and twice for the target (it's agile? DEX. It's intimidating? CHA).

Papayaman1000

(Also because I kind of forgot that ES had more than one non-DMAG/HMAG magic class.)

@nitsua60 Hmm. Yeah. ROLL FOR INSANITY, YOU'RE FIGHTING AN ELDRITCH BEAST! (rolls int)

I feel like the flavor of stat-to-skill is mostly obvious, but if you want any reasons why I chose specifically, just ask, btw.

Another idea I'm thinking of stealing is this one comment I saw recently suggesting 'durability dots' on items that slowly change their effectiveness.

nitsua60

Is it a single resolution mechanic for all tasks? Or is there a mode-split?

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 ...what?

Miniman

3:28 AM

@Papayaman1000 In D&D, "stuff you do in combat" works differently to "stuff you do outside combat".

And "stuff you do with magic" works differently again.

Papayaman1000

@Miniman Right, it's the same idea here.

nitsua60

I want to hit something and do it lethal damage. I want to find the lever for the secret door. I want to convince the innkeep to let us have a room. I want to levitate.

Miniman

@Papayaman1000 Yep, so that's a mode-split.

Yuuki

I want to eat ramen.

Papayaman1000

@Miniman Ahhhh.

nitsua60

3:29 AM

Do I use the same few-step roll-->result process in all scenarios, or are there different rules depending on which "type" of thing I want to do?

Yuuki

rolls CON save

Uh oh, I think I got a bad batch.

Papayaman1000

(And now I have ideas for dual-stat resolutions for all those)

@nitsua60 I kind of prefer to stick with simple roll solutions (or maybe the FATE long-form challenge thing) for most things other than roleplaying.

DuckTapeAl

D&D Examples: I want to punch the thing! (roll attack, roll damage). I want to lie to someone! (roll skill versus skill). I want to become invisible! (cast a spell, mark it off your spells per day, roll nothing).
Fate examples: I want to punch the thing! (roll skill against a static number, or active defense). I want to lie to someone! (roll skill against a static number, or active defense). I want to become invisible! (roll skill against a static number, or active defense).

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl Wow, Fate sounds so boring :P

DuckTapeAl

4

nitsua60

3:32 AM

@Papayaman1000 D&D combat mode: take turns, sharply-described small set of actions per turn; D&D social mode: everyone's chatting, often fluid flow between first-person, third-person, and narrated scenes, occasional skill checks. Compare with PbtA, where it's the same mode at all times. (Unless I've been doing it horribly wrong!)

Papayaman1000

(BTW: Lethal blow - STR/WIS. Find lever: - WIS/INT. Convince innkeep - CHA/STR. Levitate - Shoulda takn IMAG levels ahahaha)

@nitsua60 Oh, er, sorry... wait where did I even

@nitsua60 ...ok, fair enough. (Note to self: Abbreviations? No. The Queen's English? Apparently so!)

...sounds about standard 'Murican rules. And sorry.

nitsua60

No worries. It's just a little jarring.

I'm also sorry--it sounds like I've forced you to come up with thirty-six stat-divisions (six-by-six) rather than the six you were living with =)

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 Perfectly reasonable. I let it get a bit out of hand sometimes.

@nitsua60 No, that's much more flexible and fun while not drastically boosting complexity player-side.

nitsua60

@Papayaman1000 So do I. I just have the decency to do it in front of my four year-old. =)

DuckTapeAl

Well, 30 unless you're also counting Str/Str, Dex/Dex, etc.

Papayaman1000

3:38 AM

@nitsua60 ...and I just woke up the household. All 1 other people.

nitsua60

@DuckTapeAl 216, if it also depends on what the gods thing that day =\

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 ...Not even going to ask.

DuckTapeAl

Oh, Jesus.

THAT game.

Papayaman1000

@DuckTapeAl It took waaaaay too long for me to connect every piece of your username and profile pic.

And I just watched the season fnale of Brotherhood a few hours ago. For shame.

DuckTapeAl

Never watched Brotherhood, myself.

Though I've heard good things.

My profile pic is from... nine years ago? I think?

Papayaman1000

3:43 AM

I've watched the original and Brotherhood. I preferred the latter.

Anyways, another thing I considered adding was "tertiary skills", like fabrication (i.e. smithing, alchemy, etc...), but that got real complicated, real fast.

So I dropped them.

Especially since I feel like Spellcrafting wouldn't jive well with my system for it.

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl I thought the 2003 series was better, up until it went off the rails. But the story ending from the manga is a lot better than what Bones wrote for themselves, I think.

Papayaman1000

@Miniman Yep. It's amazing how many things they predicted correctly (or even inspired, since the mangaka wrote the plot by the seat of her pants more or less)

Although I prefer how Brotherhood left Scar nameless, I do like how the original fleshed out his character more/sooner.

But enough about [good] anime. This is RPG.SE, not 4chan.

Miniman

@Papayaman1000 Well, in fairness, a certain character predicted most of the plot for them pretty early on.

Papayaman1000

@Miniman ...I'm not sure who exactly you're talking about, and because spoilers I'm not asking.

Miniman

@Papayaman1000 Spoiler (hover over to see)

Papayaman1000

3:51 AM

@Miniman Really, now! I hadn't realized. Then again, it might've been a foregone conclusion for me when I last saw it.

BESW

> Kama chameleon. You can forgo one shift of stress on a successful kama attack to gain a boost, even if you did not succeed with style, so long as that boost is Blending in.

DuckTapeAl

One of the other players in my Fate group has my favourite stunt.

Papayaman1000

@DuckTapeAl Do tell.

DuckTapeAl

She must work here. Whenever you are at a workplace of any kind, you may make a Decieve roll to pretend to work there, even if you don't have any sort of cover story, costume, or disguise. When you succeed, everyone just assumes that you work here.

BESW

Nice.

Papayaman1000

4:04 AM

@DuckTapeAl Reminds me of a story from Andy Weir's Principles of Uncertainty.

nitsua60

Just out of curiosity, and prompted by this meta answer: has there ever been a push to have mods re-stand for election with some regularity? I feel like terms make it easy to re-affirm commitment to current moderators, make it easier for a mod to say "sorry, all--RL calls" without having to explicitly resign, and temper the sorts of calls like the linked answer. I don't know that it'd be a net-positive, but I'm surprised not to see it discussed.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Yep.

@nitsua60 Note the long list of linked questions.

nitsua60

@Miniman whoa, Nelly. Looks like I've got tomorrow's reading list all set =)

Hey, remember when we had that troll who started their username with "Troll"? That was nice of them.

Miniman

@nitsua60 TFW you start typing up an answer without even thinking about it because it's so obvious then suddenly realise you have absolutely no idea.

nitsua60

@Miniman Is this the reckless and elusive Ba/Ro of LFC's question?

Miniman

4:18 AM

@nitsua60 Nah, Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound. That one I was just looking at, and it's fairly easy.

nitsua60

I'd go with my recent GM's ruling when I tried something ludicrous in combat:
"You may not clamber gracefully. It's nonsensical. You must pick one."

@Miniman Let's see... you get advantage on the attack, and they don't. It's the MC analogue of reckless attack + cloak of displacement, right?

Miniman

@nitsua60 Pretty much, yeah.

Miniman

4:35 AM

@nitsua60 The much more difficult question - if a creature has both advantage and disadvantage on an attack against a level 18 Rogue, do they cancel out before Elusive is applied, or does Elusive steal the advantage and leave them feeling sad and disadvantaged?

Actually, I might go ahead and ask that.

DuckTapeAl

You should, so I can answer it and get some of those sweet, sweet fake internet points I've been craving.

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl Done! I'm very interested to see your answer, and also for any suggestions on a less cumbersome title.

0

Q: If I have both advantage and disadvantage, and I attack a level 18 Rogue, do I have disadvantage on the attack?

At level 18, Rogues get the Elusive class feature, which says: No attack roll has advantage against you while you aren’t incapacitated. However, if you have both advantage and disadvantage, they cancel out, and you are considered to have neither. That being the case, if ...

Hmmm, I can at least have "Elusive" in the title so people searching for questions about it can find it.

nitsua60

@Miniman Frame challenge: you can't even target a L18 Rogue, because they're already hidden (in plain sight), by dint of having a 35 passive Stealth.

(And their reliable active Stealth can only be higher.)

DuckTapeAl

4:50 AM

...is there a word in English for antonym of "incapacitated"?

I want to use "capacitated", but only for the lulz.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Frame challenge to your frame challenge: I'm a Knowledge Cleric with the Alert feat. My passive Perception is...32...wait, how did you get to 35?

nitsua60

unincapacitated

DuckTapeAl

Frame Challenge: It's impossible to get to level 18, because the players will kill eachother long before then.

nitsua60

@Miniman I dunno, just picked it out of the blue. Let's go with expertise +12, +6 DEX (somehow), a stone of good luck, and a cloak of elvenkind?

DuckTapeAl

Not the characters, the players.

nitsua60

4:52 AM

Thass only 34. But it's also -5 for you, because of the cloak again.

Miniman

@nitsua60 shakes fist Curse you and your ability to give yourself magic items in a hypothetical scenario!

nitsua60

(Crap. A cursed cloak of elvenkind? That's gonna suck for a looooong time.)

DuckTapeAl

Answered!

nitsua60

@Miniman I was only thinking of this because my AL character's currently got both the cloak and the stone attuned.

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl Already upvoted!

DuckTapeAl

4:54 AM

Achievement Unlocked: Definitely Not A Robot. Used binary logic on a non-computing SE.

Finally, I'm over the 30100 hump. :P

nitsua60

@DuckTapeAl I dunno... there's a taxonomy of (dis)advantages I'm thinking of creating for this question.

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl That's a pretty specific hump.

nitsua60

Some advantages accrue to rolls, some to attacks, and some to circumstances. Seems to me there might be daylight for those to interact differently with Elusivity.

DuckTapeAl

Oh, I'm sure you could add more layers of complication to this by having some sort of stack system and ordering of how things apply.

nitsua60

Eh, maybe not.

Miniman

4:57 AM

@DuckTapeAl Sometimes it really seems like complexity and ambiguity have an inverse relationship.

I mean, I know they don't.

DuckTapeAl

I know what you mean.

Hey, have you ever seen the trap that Wizards put on page 149 of the DMG?

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl Frightening realisation: I'm getting close to overtaking waxeagle :(

DuckTapeAl

Oh, wow. I didn't even notice that.

Good job!

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl I've read it, so I must have, but I don't have it with me at work, and I don't know it well enough to remember.

DuckTapeAl

Entry 81 on Magic Item Table I is the Deck of Many Things.

Miniman

4:59 AM

@DuckTapeAl Thanks! But it has more to do with wax's long-term, worrying disappearance.

nitsua60

@Miniman I recently passed someone, and I feel a little uncomfortable about it. Don't feel like the ordering's "right" any more.

Miniman

@nitsua60 I know exactly how you feel.

@nitsua60 I'm pretty sure I even know who it was :P

nitsua60

@Miniman That's right. @DuckTapeAl. Passed 'em in January, have been nervous to mention it 'til now. =)

DuckTapeAl

You passed me a long, long time ago, @nitsua60. :P

nitsua60

@DuckTapeAl Oh- I didn't see you there. We were just talking about you! All good things, all good things. [nervous titter]

Papayaman1000

5:04 AM

anyways ii need to wake up in 4.5 so toodles

i might be back in an hour if that fails

Miniman

@Papayaman1000 Cya!

DuckTapeAl

nitsua60

@Papayaman1000 Good luck!

DuckTapeAl

I was at a bachelor party with a bunch of other nerds last weekend, and I brought up after a D&D game that I was an active user here.

Most of the other nerds were programmers, and were only really aware of SO and the other programming stacks

Seeing the look on their faces when I showed them my rep on the mobile app was way more gratifying than it should have been. :P

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl I still freak out a bit when I see the impact statistic they added to the profile pages.

Or when this happened.

DuckTapeAl

5:10 AM

@nitsua60 Speaking of you overtaking me, I got curious and looked up the numbers. You reached my current rep total on October 17th last year. You overtook me in rep around June.

nitsua60

True confession: I had a strange dream the other day that I was on the NPR show "Ask Me Another," during the segment where the hosts have to play 20 questions to figure out why someone's famous. After a strange series of questions they figured out I was famous as "one of the top ten answerers of questions about D&D on the internet."
Then I came here and everyone was all "hey--we heard you on the radio!"

DuckTapeAl

@Miniman Right? I keep thinking "that number couldn't possibly be correct", but every time I check the data, it seems right.

@nitsua60 That's a pretty strange dream, but I like it. :P

Miniman

@nitsua60 What really strikes me as weird about that dream is how straightforward it is.

nitsua60

@Miniman Yeah, I think that'd blow my mind if it happened. Like, I'm driving some schoolkids on a trip somewhere and we pass a farm and one of them's all "hey--look at that one eating flowers: it looks like that dude nitsua from the internet." And we crash.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Lol! You might want to think about getting a more unique avatar if you want that one to come about :P

nitsua60

5:13 AM

@Miniman It's possible I've been... aware of the recent reordering's imminence for a while.

@Miniman I mean, it has to be a daffodil.

Or if they ever see a cold sheep:

Miniman

@nitsua60 I just mean, like, leaving aside the part where you can be considered famous just for answering people's D&D questions on the Internet, that dream makes perfect sense.

nitsua60

@DuckTapeAl Where were you able to look that up? I was just eyeballing that tiny graph on the user activity page.

Like I need another way to dig up SE numbers about me....

@Miniman [humblebrag] I'm kind of a big deal at my AL table, after all.

=)

Miniman

@nitsua60 Try this graph.

(I'm assuming)

DuckTapeAl

@nitsua60 Sorry, was away commenting on a new user's answer.

nitsua60

@Miniman Whoa.

DuckTapeAl

5:18 AM

Yeah, that's the one.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Ah, you hadn't seen it? It's pretty handy.

nitsua60

Yeah. For STALKERS!

DuckTapeAl

I compared mine and yours. The scales are different, since I've been here a lot longer, but it wasn't super hard to track down.

nitsua60

=P

Miniman

@nitsua60 Actually, I like it for looking at my own velocity.

DuckTapeAl

5:19 AM

Hey, I'm not a stalker. One sec, just gotta make a call to Pripyat.

Miniman

It's interesting, for example, that I've never really matched the rate of rep increase I had in my first few months here.

DuckTapeAl

I think it's pretty funny that you can tell when 5e came out just by looking at the rep graphs of longtime RPG.SE users.

nitsua60

@Miniman Now I feel like a tool--I've just been looking at the top users list and doing the math in my head.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Well, I also have SQL for that.

Which reminds me, there's a query I wanted to run now that the data's been refreshed.

nitsua60

@Miniman (Still on pace to overtake you around the time I retire, 30 years from now...)

Miniman

5:23 AM

Wow, that's an amazing feat of munchkinry. If only we could bounty questions :(

DuckTapeAl

I like how I can pin every jump in my rep to a specific question.

nitsua60

@DuckTapeAl Looks like 4/4/14 was a pretty good day for you....

DuckTapeAl

The launch of 5th was a good day for everyone here.

My best week was the week I realized that we didn't have a canonical question about the Oberoni Fallacy.

Then this happened, and I was rep capped every day for a week.

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl Not-at-all-humblebrag: I rep-capped 5/7 days last week, but I had to work for it :P

DuckTapeAl

Wah... erk...?

I don't know, @Miniman, that sounds hard.

People keep telling me that, since I was born in the late 80s, I'm not supposed to know how to do that.

Miniman

5:34 AM

(On the final stretch to Legendary, rep-capping stops being annoying and starts being an addiction)

DuckTapeAl

Lol.

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl Hey, born in the 90s, I'm not even supposed to know what that is.

As evidenced by me thinking that answering questions about D&D is that.

DuckTapeAl

...huh. Apparently I'm subscribed to [rules-lawyering].

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl Isn't that...not even a tag anymore?

DuckTapeAl

That is correct.

Wow. If you ever want to feel e-humbled, take a look at the top users for SO.

The top user has nearly a million points.

..of course, by 'nearly', I mean that his total, plus @Miniman's, is about a million.

Oh, weird! Just randomly found someone I went to school with on Page 9 of the SO users.

Miniman

5:43 AM

@DuckTapeAl I'd say he was legendary, but it's more like mythical at this point.

DuckTapeAl

THIS IS SO GOOD

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl I was pretty excited when I realised I had the privilege of being the first person to point you to it :)

DuckTapeAl

Looking at his profile: ~192.5m people reached

One of these is just literally true: Jon Skeet has more "Nice Answer" badges than you have badges.

In fact, he has more Great Answer gold badges than most users have badges. :P

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl Looking at his profile: he almost, but not quite, has more profile views than I have people reached.

DuckTapeAl

His rep graph is just y = 200 * x.

Miniman

5:54 AM

@DuckTapeAl Heck, he has more rep on MSE than I have here.

DuckTapeAl

He has more answers than I have rep.

SevenSidedDie

@DuckTapeAl Jon Skeet fact: Jon Skeet is no mere mortal and has a rep graph that is y = 300 * x.

DuckTapeAl

...uhhhh...

It's actually y = 301.03 * x.

Jon Skeet is so powerful, even jokey Jon Skeet facts are often literally true.

He's got 938,915 rep, and has been on the site 3119 days (since Sep 26, '08).

Miniman

And, by all reports, he has a job outside of all this.

SevenSidedDie

@DuckTapeAl Wow, I wasn't that far off just guessing.

DuckTapeAl

6:00 AM

...but how even.

SevenSidedDie

@Miniman There was a meta somewhere that basically asked “how the heck did Jon Skeet??” and the answer was interesting. Basically, he had to deal with black-magic levels of C for work, and starting sharing the insights on SO as relevant questions came in, and the rest was history (plus getting to write some textbooks on C).

(I'm failing to find it by searching though.)

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl Well, averaging about 6⅔ accepts per day, or a bit less with bounties.

It's worth pointing out, that while he rep-caps every day from people upvoting his old stuff, that ^^ means that he's still pumping out answers day in, day out.

DuckTapeAl

Oh, I understand the rep mechanics that technically allow it, it's the 6.5 new accepts per day that boggles my mind.

Miniman

I mean, he has enough laurels to build a mountain and he still refuses to coast down it.

DuckTapeAl

A friend at that bachelor party asked me how much time I spend on the site daily, and I answered about 15 minutes to an hour, depending. On a really SE-heavy day, I'll spend 2-3 hours answering questions, hanging out here, and engaging on meta.

I might have once had 2 accepts in a single day.

Rob

6:08 AM

@AnneAunyme Nice! What was the system?

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl You did!

Amazingly, Bryant had nine.

DuckTapeAl

Wow.

Anyway, it's way too late, and I should be going.

I'll try not to be a stranger. Bye, all!

Miniman

@DuckTapeAl It's been fun chatting, hope to see you again soon!

@Miniman Ah, it was on the second day of the site's existence.

Anne Aunyme

7:31 AM

@Rob We played only the introduction in a car while returning from weekend, so we made it narratively without any real system

BESW

@Miniman Ooh, interesting.

Carcer

8:14 AM

Pathfinder's Pain Taster seems like a really, really awful class.

Chemus

@Carcer, Yeah? What hits you as its worst feature?

Carcer

Hey, mighty barbarian! You can have Sneak Attack! But only if you use a whip.

Anne Aunyme

I think the class is better if you come from rogue

Carcer

Also, major class feature being a fairly trivial enhancement bonus to ability scores rendered largely pointless because you'll be using magic items to boost your important scores anyway

Anne Aunyme

tbh most of Pathfinder's prestige classes are garbage

Chemus

8:27 AM

Ok, yeah I really hate the whole 'This class replaces a minor magic item. You're welcome' paradigm too. Not up on PF stuff, myself; never had the inclination.

doppelgreener

9:08 AM

@Chemus Aah, the soulknife embodied.

> Soulknife: "I use my class features to upgrade my cool sword!"
Cleric: "Really? I just use money to do that. I use my class features to call upon the power of gods to scour the earth and crumble entire kingdoms."
Wizard: "I use my class features to rewrite reality as I know it."
Soulknife now reconsiders the wisdom of his career decisions.

BESW

An actual exchange from my days of D&D 3.5, abridged:

> Player: I really like the flavour of psionic classes!
GM: Cool, but I heard psionics are kinda overpowered and I know your builds have a tendency to overshadow everyone else already. What will you do about that?
Player: Oh, it's cool, I can just play a soulknife.
GM: I don't know what that means, but I figure you'll make it work!
Player: [shows up with a min/maxed soulknife that makes the monk look hypercompetent]

BESW

9:47 AM

@DrPhil Hi!

DrPhil

hi!

BESW

What's new?

Trish

10:43 AM

sometimes I wonder why people need help to find the power perverseion potential of magic...

doppelgreener

@BESW Oh no. XD

Trish

@BESW One-Tick-Pony?!

just because of the hypercompetent...

BESW

I don't remember any of the details. This was... [counts on fingers] Let's see, it was the campaign with the action suffix gimmick, so about 11 years ago.

Trish

In some group I was known for making numbercrunched builds... they said they want to make a shadowrun group, but they also told me not to make a OTP. So... I came up with an australian dive/surf teacher. No competence in the essential sneak, no guns, but harpoons and knives, and boat steering and water/under water, physical fit, knowing all the surfers and divers in her home patch of Australia.... for a campaign that mostly was set in the outback XD

BESW

10:58 AM

Yeah, real system mastery in that kind of system is about being able to fine-tune the design dials to what the group needs, not just about cranking them all up to 11.

Trish

All in all that was a very round and well versed character... it was just not a runner. It was a high competent civie from the beach.

doppelgreener

11:49 AM

@BESW Also means you need to know where the campaign is set, and the group creating characters together is very important so that you can ensure you each complement each other.

NautArch

12:04 PM

I still think I olive fma over Brotherhood. But maybe more because of nostalgia.

Olive= I like. I also like olives.

BESW

> Mulder Syndrome. Once per adventure you can declare an absolutely absurd explanation for an unexplained circumstance. You get two fate points if your explanation turns out to be wrong, or two free invokes on the resulting aspect if you're right.

@Ryan [wave] Fancy seeing you here.

> Scully Sense. You get +2 when Carefully overcoming irrational paranoia.

Trish

@BESW WHUD? That is... free fate points nless your GM jumps upon your absurd explanation that "Aliens replaced the whole population of Kirchistan, a tiny country between Russia and Kirgisistan, to establish a technocratic state controlled by a priest in order to faciliate the Kennedy assasination by proxy" ?

doppelgreener

@NautArch FMA explores some stories I enjoy that Brotherhood doesn't, either because they didn't exist in the manga or they chose to leave it out to not retread ground everyone's already seen in the original FMA, but which I enjoyed very much.

@Trish But you'd be the kind of guy who, in a circumstance that actually looks like that could sort of be inferred or concluded, spouts theories like that. Which is great.

Trish

@doppelgreener that is not in the textbook. That it has to be absurd but somewhat reasonable. Otherwise it always was the moon nazis

BESW

@Trish Yup. A stunt is usually pretty balanced if it's roughly equivalent to having an extra fate point every scene or two. In most cases that's controlled by giving you a fate point's worth of effect get triggered by something very specific.

doppelgreener

12:11 PM

You might be coming at that from a POV that players would happily create narrative gobbledegook for the sake of mechanical points, but Fate is not that kind of game & such players would be finding plenty of other ways to break the gameplay experience for themselves & make it un-fun. This being a Mulder character suggests a way their wild theories would be reasonably tempered and down-to-earth and, yknow, somewhat coherent. They're a sane professional, not an insane tin-foil-hat basement dweller.

BESW

eg, +2 or a minor rule-break when X happens in Y way.

And yes, it'd be totally within the bounds to have your character just be wrong almost all the time and rack up fate points as compensation for acting on bad assumptions; that effect would be not unlike a compel.

Trish

@doppelgreener "an absolutely absurd explanation for an unexplained circumstance." - that doesn't sound down to earth really, unless the char also has a down to earth thing.

BESW

And do remember, stunts are designed for their contexts. You wouldn't take Mulder Syndrome in a Downton Abbey game; you'd take it in an X-Files game (or a CSI parody game).

doppelgreener

Right, that is the down-to-earth thing. ^

Trish

A conspiracy theorist that is just plain wrong by ignoring facts wound rack up points for stuff far away...

BESW

12:15 PM

Fate is about mechanising existing narrative. Stunts are a way to describe something that's true about your character and tie it into the fate point economy.

I invoked Mulder specifically because a trope of the X-Files is that his obviously paraoid conspiracy ramblings are so often, ridiculously, and uncritically correct.

The stunt wouldn't get used in a game where that sort of thing didn't happen, because it wouldn't be describing a narrative truth about the game.

trogdor

@doppelgreener I dunno, Mulder was leaning towards tin foil hats sometimes

BESW

@trogdor I think Mulder's more of a felt guy.

trogdor

lol

Ryan

12:31 PM

@BESW [wave]

Trish

I prefer the "Bones" Conspracy theorist. Hodgins (sp?)

BESW

12:54 PM

> Conspiracy nut. You get +2 to Cleverly overcome classified obstacles.

Trish

hehe, that sounds appropriatee... or to introduce details that clearly can't solve the case :P

BESW

> Obliviously paranoid. You can use Rapport as if it were Provoke when confiding your conspiracy theories to an unwilling audience.

Yuuki

1:44 PM

Speaking of Bones...

> That's not how computers work. You can use your Deceive skill to convince reality that you can gain access to electronics.

DForck42

2:00 PM

morn

Good morning.

@Yuuki how goes it?

Pretty good.

@Yuuki :-D

I think I might need to ask my DM if I can retool my character's backstory/motivations.

Doesn't really make much sense for a character that's focused entirely on restoring his homeland to venture off to the unknown frontier.

DForck42

2:06 PM

@Yuuki oh?

Yuuki

So maybe instead of taking back the kingdom, he could be venturing off to the unknown to try to re-establish it elsewhere.

nitsua60

@Yuuki How was the ramen? =)

Yuuki

@nitsua60 Unfortunately, I was unable to acquire ramen. Instant ramen is nice and all, but I've been spoiled recently by a proper ramen restaurant.

So I need to wait a week or so for the taste to dull so I can eat instant ramen with joy again.

Adam

@Yuuki Sometimes the tools you need to reach your goal are in other places. Your character shouldn't have the strength to even attempt to take back his kingdom at the beginning of the game. The journey is gaining the strength and resources enough to come back later.

Yuuki

@Adam Yes, but my character isn't the type to think "oh, I need to venture off into the wilderness to get stronger before I can do this".

I'll talk it over with my DM, see what he thinks.

nitsua60

2:15 PM

@Adam It was fun reading the first sentence of this statement as a response to the immediately-previous statement of Yukki's =)

Yuuki

2:50 PM

And another thing to add to my "wait, I got banned for that?" list.

DForck42

@Yuuki ramen makes me sick...

Yuuki

@DForck42 Instant ramen or proper ramen?

DForck42

@nitsua60 rule number 1 for character creation: your character HAS to have a reason to be adventuring, especially with this particular group

@Yuuki never had proper ramen, sadly

Yuuki

@DForck42 That's unfortunate. Yeah, instant ramen can be tough on certain digestive systems.

DForck42

@Yuuki :-D

Anne Aunyme

3:17 PM

I never could appreciate instant ramen, too salty for me. Is real ramen less salty?

Yuuki

Less salty, more savory.

Instant ramen can't emulate pork bone stock very well, so it compensates with salt.

Anne Aunyme

seems way better!

doppelgreener

Instant ramen tastes very different to real ramen, much like beef-flavoured instant noodles don't taste like beef.

nitsua60

3:51 PM

@doppelgreener Right. They taste like "beef-flavored." Like orange soda doesn't taste like oranges, it tastes like "orange." =)

Yuuki

> Man, mend has become the biggest issue in my game. I keep explaining to the party that mend really only works on broken objects. Their solution was to kill the Oracle who has no feeling in his arms (-2 to attack rolls and hand skills) lob his arms off, mend on new ones, then revive him. "A corpse is an object right?"

source

doppelgreener

@Yuuki Well, they certainly get points for creative problem solving, but I'm not sure I'd ask them to solve any of my own problems...

Anne Aunyme

4:12 PM

@Yuuki Usually I make it clear to my players that as a cantrip is there is any doubt about whether it will solve the situation or not it probably won't

moreover in this very case you have regeneration which does exactly what they are trying to do

(but it wouldn't even work as the Oracle's malediction is more than a mundane affliction of his arms)

DForck42

@Yuuki ...

the dnd subreddit is close to celebrating 2 years of weekly questions: reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/64oy04/…

interesting question: reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/64oy04/…

"[5e] Darkness and Faerie Fire, how do they interact?

We were having a discussion about it, since Darkness states that it dispels spells from level 2 or lower if they create an area of light. Faerie Fire outlines the targets, but those targets ALSO shed dim light in a 10 foot radius. But since this shedding is a "side-effect", I'd say it doesn't, but some people are arguing that it still dispels it."

imho I think any creature that has faerie fire on them when in darkness has faerie fire dispelled on them. I don't think it dispels it for EVERYONE affected by it, though I think that bit's up for interpretation

Yuuki

4:32 PM

@AnneAunyme Proper ramen is very complex. There's a reason why polls show that Japanese people believe that instant ramen is one of their greatest inventions.

Adam

@DForck42 Agreed. If the area overlaps, their outline goes away. It's magically creating light after all, even if it is a side effect

Yuuki

@Adam Is Faerie Fire dispelled though?

It sounds like you're saying the light effect is suppressed, not necessarily dispelled.

DForck42

@Adam how is the light a side effect? that's literally the point of faerie fire. making things glow so they're easier to see and hit

nitsua60

@Miniman what do you mean better coverage? We've got Eastern and Central North American timezone moderators =)

Adam

@yuuki I meant that if you enter the darkness while affected by Faerie Fire, the spell effect ends for you. but not on people who aren't in the darkness. Just because I need a quick ruling that makes sense, and that's my first reaction.

@DForck42 That was improperly worded of me as well. I do not agree that the glowing is a side effect. I'm more thinking that it doesn't matter if the OP thinks it's a side effect or not.

DForck42

4:37 PM

@Adam ahh

Adam

as a related question to that one, would Darkness dispel a Continual Flame?

The Oracle

0

Q: A Featured meta question isn't showing up as "Featured on meta"

How is the community doing? is currently featured (as of 13 hours ago), but not showing up in the Featured on meta section of the community sidebar: It is however showing up in the hot meta posts. Could this be because "hot meta posts" overrides "featured"? I feel like that shouldn't happen.

bug meta

DForck42

@TheOracle nice catch

@Adam yes

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