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12:15 AM
@JackStout cool, where will it be released? Also, what sort of modifications?
 
hey guys, what do you think of a water elemental with a swarm of quippers in it as far as an enemy design goes?
Terrain is a series of ice tunnels in a fully frozen over lake, the water elemental can make tunnels through it at whim
 
hey again @daze413
 
@Skyler the swarm of quippers would drown! oh, wait...
 
@Skyler hahaha, fish elemental ;)
 
@Shalvenay hey yo! you've been silent mostly of our little playtest. What did you think of the RP scene yesterday? does it spell doom too much?
 
12:21 AM
Those are the only fish I've found in the manual
maybe im not looking hard enough
 
ah. so yeah -- it is pretty obviously a "something's weird and not in a good way" scene. just how did the folks found near the altar die btw?
 
any favorite water and ice themed enemies shal?
 
I don't deal with water/ice environs much
 
seems like the manual doesnt much either
 
@Skyler Bheur hag, but a silver dragon would just kill it.
 
12:23 AM
@Shalvenay ah, yeah, forgot to put that in the fluff text, on closer inspection you'd see hideous welts and tiny holes where the Defensive Growths got to them.
 
@Miniman Yeti's while theyre in the mountains
 
@Skyler under water?
 
@daze413 So I've got a frozen lake, VERY frozen. Some of it may still be wet though
 
@Skyler ah, is this above ground or underdark?
 
@daze413 accessed from above ground, abandoned city of sorts
 
12:26 AM
@Skyler Ice toads are cool, and something a silver would probably be happy to ignore.
 
btw guys, what equipment should i have my party pick up before going into cold terrain
 
@Skyler magic items? or mundane?
 
@daze413 mundane
how expensive are magic items anyways?
 
@Skyler Well, warm clothes is kinda an obvious pick.
 
@Skyler climbers kit, winter clothes
 
12:29 AM
Winter clothes can be worn over armor right
 
@Skyler I know a pdf of Sane Magic Item prices
 
Yeah, spiked boots so you can walk on ice without sliding around.
 
@daze413 that id like to see
 
@Miniman maybe even those tennis racket shoes
so that you dont fall into deep snow
 
@Skyler The default assumption in 5e is that magic items can't just be bought at a magic item shop, they're the sort of thing you go on quests for.
@daze413 Snowshoes, yeah.
 
12:31 AM
@Miniman yea, right now I have characters at a super posh auction house with magic items though so i want to have a reference
 
I think travel.se has something for this
 
if a character wants to spend ALL the money they have now for a magic item im fine with it
 
@Skyler and they will, in my experience
 
@daze413 some figurines of myserious wonder may be sitting around then, one player who spearheaded an investigation will get something nice for sure though
 
once had the party spend all their money on potions in Gracklstugh for the adventure Out of the Abyss. Little did they know they needed all that money to buy a boat to cross the dark lake. They had to pawn a lot of things- including 2 boats they found/stole/tookbyforce for 1 slightly worse boat
 
12:37 AM
@Skyler One point to consider - the way you asked that suggests that you want the party to be equipped to deal with the mundane hazards of cold terrain. If those hazards aren't something you care about having as obstacles, you can just assume that the party buys the stuff they need and not worry about it too much.
 
@Miniman i can have the NPC recommend a list of items, or even "cover" it himself as a negotiating point he makes
but I just want to make a list so PCs know what they got and can use in the cold
 
4
Q: Items to keep warm while out in the cold

kittensatplayI am looking for an exhaustive and light set of items to pack when travelling to places characterized by cold weather for the purpose of keeping warm when outside. By light I mean light packing, one bag if possible.

 
For true worshippers of randomness... RPG book clearance random 10-pack, AU$50
 
ice picks, thermal clothes, ice/snow shoes,
 
@Skyler ale or grog- to keep warm... no really
 
12:44 AM
@daze413 we've got an alcoholic, he's always got stuff to bring and now he has an alchemists jug
i quartered the quantity of alcohol before giving it so he wouldn't drink himself to death
 
@daze413 Gotta be careful with that - it opens pores and increases the risk of exposure.
 
@Skyler booo railroading! kidding. I am really harsh on alcoholic adventurers.
@Miniman I see... then why do St. Bernards carry around alcohol on hteir necks?
 
I'd love to do a day of campaigning where this happened though
 
@daze413 Because it does have a warming effect.
 
12:49 AM
@daze413 Nvm, apparently the feeling of warmth is only a feeling, and the St Bernards carrying booze is a myth perpetuated by an artist.
 
@Miniman well, I guess if you're close enough for a dog to find you, help will be on the way
@Miniman really? all those lies...
 
@daze413 Depressing, isn't it.
 
@Skyler what's stopping this from happening?
Most of my players have played witcher so I cant pull that one on them
 
@daze413 not sure how a DM sets that one up
 
@Skyler I dont think a DM can? It has to be done by the players
and they have to have a firm grasp of what's true in the world and the items in Yeniffer's arsenal.
 
12:53 AM
@daze413 yea... so far since I swapped in as DM the party has been a little boring
not too creative in combat either tbh
 
@Skyler I think that's just the omnivision speaking to you. It's easy to see how creative the players can potentiall be when you're behind the screen. Then again, did you mostly do the creative thinking when you were a player?
 
@daze413 probably to the point of annoying DMs
 
also meta: don't want to have the backroom keep getting frozen and unfrozen. Is it unethical to bump it once in a while?
 
a little, not a lot
 
@Skyler what do you mean?
 
12:56 AM
@daze413 i would ask for the weirdest shit at stores
hobble together weird items, try to set up weird circumstances
 
@Skyler ah, then I guess its just your playstyles mismatching
 
@daze413 Not at all.
Especially since it's useful for anyone who wants to play something in a chatroom.
 
@Miniman do you need a special privilege to unfreeze? I couldn't figure it out yesterday
 
@daze413 Yeah, mods-only.
 
There was a particularly loose game where I scavenged a ship for rust shavings, got alumnium shavings, and made lihgtning activated thermite cubes id lob at enemies
 
12:59 AM
@Skyler How does your character know what thermite is?
 
@Skyler How does your character know what aluminium is?
 
@Miniman admittedly, that game was a tad loose, first campaign
 
@Skyler how does your character know how to shave things?
 
@daze413 haha
 
I just got to tear apart a laptop and salvage damn near every bit. Today was a good day. Anyways, now to get back to databasing for my campaigns...
 
1:19 AM
@Papayaman1000 what did you salvage, I've taken apart a fair share of laptops and put em back together, not alot you can scavenge usually
how big are 5e dragons
 
@Skyler Ancient?
 
adult to ancient
 
Technically they're gargantuan, which puts them at 5x5 in grid-world. But they've some decent reach, so I've always gone with something like 50' tip-to-tail, with a similar wingspan?
 
adult - fit into a 15ft square, ancient - fit into a 20ft or larger square
 
thats standing on two legs though right
 
1:26 AM
So plenty sizable, but there's only the areas @Miniman mentioned where one can't even get a place to stand.
 
@Skyler No idea - size categories are pretty much the opposite of an exact science
@nitsua60 55', btw, adding tail reach + bite reach + size category
 
@Skyler just caught up on the whole lair-conversation. The one piece of advice I'd have is to layer things. It was a nice mountaintop glade that attracted people--figure out that reason. Then it was a city--why'd that happen? Then it fell into ruin--why'd that happen? Silver dragons like mountaintop ruins. Then the last lair is the environmental effects from MM and the effects of both dragon's bodily and lair actions, accrued over centuries.
 
Going off the wing attack, wingspan should be about 40 ft, but that's really stupid.
Oops, that's 50 ft - I was looking at the wrong statblock.
 
@Miniman Sounds good. Btw, you might be interested: the sharpshooter you helped me conceive finished SKT (at level 13) last night. spoiler test
 
@nitsua60 Nice!
@nitsua60 I'm interested in SKT, so I might not look at that one.
I mean, I'll probably end up running it, not playing in it, but you never know, yanno?
 
1:32 AM
Well, it won't spoil anything by saying that near the end we fought something big/impressive, but for reasons almost nobody else in the party could really effectively deal with it, so they handled all the mooks while I basically soloed something many CR above my level =)
 
@nitsua60 Wow! That's actually kind of a worry.
Like, if I end up playing it, now I feel like I should make an archer.
And if I end up running it, I think I'd want to change that so everyone feels useful.
 
Everything I'm reading seems to indicate a Monk can basically attack 3 times using Flurry of Blows but the Player's Guide indicates 4 attacks
13
Q: How many attack rolls are made when attacking with Flurry of Blows?

SpidermikeHWhile playing 5e with my playgroup, I made a staff strike, along with Flurry of Blows with my monk going for the extra 2 unarmed strikes. For this, my DM made me take a total of 2 attack rolls, one for the staff strike, and one for the "bonus action/attack." I failed the second roll, and was told...

Says 3 attacks, but players guide says 4
 
@Ryan Once you have Extra Attack, you can attack twice with your action and twice with flurry of blows.
 
@Miniman so it is 4 right?
not sure what you mean by Extra Attack
 
@Ryan Well, 4 in a turn. Only 2 are actually with flurry of blows.
 
1:37 AM
oh Extra Attack is another one yet. It should be 5 then
 
@Ryan No. Flurry of Blows is 2 attacks.
To use Flurry of Blows, you use an Attack action, which is 1 attack, or 2 if you have Extra Attack.
 
but Monk attribute states, "When you use the Attack action with an unarmed
strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make
one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if
you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff,
you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus
action, assuming you haven't already taken a bonus
action this turn."
sorry copying from PDF made bad formatting
 
@Ryan You can either use your bonus action for that, or for Flurry of Blows.
 
Right, but Flurry of Blows is also a bonus action, which you can only use one of per turn.
 
You only have 1 bonus action, so you can't use both.
 
1:40 AM
the attribute states "assuming you haven't already taken a bonus action" but the Flurry doesn't. Cant you do Attack, attribute attack, flurry, extra attack
 
@Ryan No.
 
No, there's a general rule of you may only take one bonus action per turn. Nothing as part of flurry or martial arts overrides that.
 
> You can take only
one bonus action on
your turn, so you
must choose which bonus
action to
use when
you have
more than
one available.
Speaking of PDFs with bad formatting.
WotC hasn't really gotten their heads around PDFs yet.
 
okay so at most the attribute is like a poor-man's Flurry for either level 1 or when you're out of Ki
got it
 
@Ryan It's called Martial Arts, btw. But yeah.
 
1:46 AM
With Stunning Strike it has to be a melee weapon so unarmed doesn't work. Does that mean you can't do Stunning Strike and Flurry the same turn?
 
Stunning Strike needs a melee weapon attack, which unarmed strikes are.
 
Stunning Strike doesn't require any kind of action and can be done whenever you hit with a melee weapon attack, which Unarmed Attacks still count as despite unarmed not being a weapon. (See the Sage Advice compendium, p.10)
 
@Miniman Formatted like that, it looks like some sort of poem
 
oh unarmed counts as melee weapons. Cool! That seems like a really broken idea if you can just chain a few together successfully
At higher levels when you have the ki to do so
 
More or less that's what monks are for past level 5- they're not super great at anything, but they are slippery and have one of the most spammable forms of crowd control in the game if they have the resources for it.
They're very good at getting to a target and shutting them down.
(and making them easier to hit, because Stunned does that as well)
 
1:52 AM
and if its an Open Hand Monk they also can also knock the opponent Prone
 
Because of that, they're very good at burning through Legendary Resistances of big monsters- most DMs don't like their big guys getting Stunned. :-P
 
I kinda wish I had picked it. Now to decide if I'll drop the Warlock I just started or wait and see if I can get in and have time for a second group
 
I find monk pretty fun. They have plenty of tools to play with even early game, and they have their niche that works well. If I have one complaint it's that they, like barbarians and fighters, are a little light on out-of-combat features.
 
@Ryan I'd put it the opposite way: what you're calling the "attribute" is basically the same TWF that any character has: anyone can take a hand off their sword and grab a dagger and make another attack with that puny weapon, using a bonus action. (Experts in the room: I'm intentionally ignoring the action-economy question of drawing and stowing that dagger repeatedly.)
But the monk, at the cost of a ki, could make two small attacks with their bonus action, rather than just one.
 
Hmm the DM didn't tell me that. So every turn my Warlock should've been spamming Eldritch Blast and then trying to stab with his dagger just because?
@CTWind Im getting the feeling Adventurer's League which is what I'm currently playing in is by nature light on out of combat activities. But then I've only played once so far so that's a big assumption on my part
 
1:59 AM
@Miniman Eh, I'm not sure I'd worry too much. It was a pretty well-optimized party, not just me.
Barbarian had taken 3 levels of Champion and made good use of action surge and improved crit + reckless attacks + cloak of displacement + lucky + weapon which did extra damage dice against particular type. (Actually ended up with two of those, with two different types.
Pure L13 Battle Master + PAM + GWF + Sentinel + Mobile (yes, he never took an ASI) who then found a freaking belt of some-giant strength + magical halberd of wounding....
 
@Ryan No, so far as I'm aware your warlock wouldn't have anything granting him a bonus action attack. (Most features that do grant a bonus action attack require you to spend your action on the Attack action and attacking with a weapon, which Eldritch Blast doesn't qualify for. As an example, two-weapon fighting requires Attacking with a light weapon.)
 
For me, well you know max dex sharpshooter + precision dice + self bless + expertise in stealth + SA dice + cloak of elvenkind (passive stealth of 30, anyone?) + archery + lucky + bracers of archery (rolled on random treasure table) + +3 longbow (also randomly rolled)....
 
if my Warlock goes melee and attacks with a Mace, then he can attack again the same turn with a Dagger?
 
@Ryan That's point #2 in the answer I linked you earlier.
@Ryan Yes, if mace is light and the hand is free for the dagger and he hasn't used a bonus action for anything else.
 
@nitsua60 (Though supplementary, I don't think there are any light maces. Dagger in each hand'd work, though.)
 
2:07 AM
@Ryan Btw: do not feel bad not having this all straight yet. There are lots of synergies/dependencies, and TSR/WotC has (IMO) never done a good job of explaining its own game to someone who doesn't already know how to play it.
@Ryan if you want to two-weapon fight, Handaxe or shortsword or scimitar (all 1d6 dmg) are going to be your hardest-hitting light weapons, which would allow for an off-hand weapon attack.
The second weapon doesn't have to be a dagger, though, just has to be light. So you could have two of the above weapons and make your two attacks at 1d6 each.
Handaxe is the only one you have proficiency in (as a warlock), so your mundane weapon will have to be a handaxe. Your pact weapon could be any of the three.
 
@nitsua60 That's even more worrying! They were all well optimized and you were still the only one who could fight the boss? Yikes!
 
@Miniman It's the tactics the GM chose.
 
Sickle too. I'd use those or as Monk a Kama
 
@Ryan Sickle's only 1d4.
 
@Adeptus In an age where freeform poetry is widely accepted (for some reason) everything is a poem.
 
2:13 AM
I don't care. I like 'em! RPG > Beasting lol
 
@nitsua60 Ah, fair nuff.
 
I trained all sorts of weapons growing up and Kamas were one of my favorites :D
 
@Ryan Won't get an argument from me. You're looking at a guy who rolls a d12 to see what class he'll play.
(And then optimizes the crap out of it!)
 
@ryan follow your flavor man!
 
=)
 
2:15 AM
Warlock dual wielding Kamas and then once in a while summons a 2 handed Scythe to go all grim reaper would be fun
 
I'd like to make a character who uses kamas with greater invisibility.
A lizardman, preferably.
 
Actually, the sharpshooter I'm describing is the first time I've optimized a character in 5e.
 
@Miniman Some kind of... kama chameleon?
5
 
hah!
 
@CTWind ;)
 
2:16 AM
sounds like an old timey song. Kama kama kama kameleon
 
@Ryan Oh, gods. A song I listened to when it first came out was just described as "old timey."
[/rage quits chat]
[for twelve seconds]
 
that's a real song? Well then lol
 
@ryan oldtimey :/
 
oh its only from the 80s. I was thinking way older than that
 
2:18 AM
@nitsua60 I'll join you on the rage quit/rapid return
 
Speaking of being older than I think I am, I realized today that many of my students are children of those who delayed child-rearing because of "contemporary" financial crises I was studying while econ-minoring in college.
I know it's a little convoluted, but it still made me feel old.
 
ah I think I know this song. Probably realized that subconsciously
 
As did turning my ankle tossing a disc with my son.
 
@nitsua60 Hey, your reasoning for feeling old can be as complicated as you want.
 
hey a girl I came close to asking out at the local grocery store a while back (she mentioned her boyfriend so I didn't) told me today I remind her of her high school English teacher
:\ I still am not convinced she's that much younger than me, at best I'd say she's 6 years younger than me but sure made me feel old
 
2:24 AM
(nvm--I had you and her swapped in my head.)
 
@nitsua60 I'm a moderator on StackExchange and can read deleted chat messages, just FYI
 
(I thought she was thinking of asking you out and that she thought you were like the teacher.)
Right, but do you see how the deleted message wasn't so much something that might offend you, but rather was just nonsense to someone who'd correctly read the precursor?
 
oh yeah I'm not offended, I rarely get offended. It just seemed like as good a time as any to point that out
in case you want to call me vulgar names when I'm not around. Because that would make me feel sad inside :'( lol
(that's a joke, I really don't care if you call me names. I've been called worse)
 
@Ryan I do have some retribution to levy... you've made me feel old for the third time today.
(Note to spectators: the first two were not @Ryan)
=)
Any baseball fans/experts in the room? I know almost nothing, and want to know something.
 
Baseball is a game where people run in a diamond shape. There's a bat and a ball. And uh... cracker jacks? That's the extent of my baseball knowledge
 
2:34 AM
@nitsua60 ask away
 
well that and Sandlot. Sandlot > Baseball
 
@Shalvenay So it's about stealing home. I get it when there's runners 1st/3rd, steal second, throw back from 2->home doesn't get there in time. I get it when there's a rundown somewhere in the infield and 3 steals home. Those are easy.
But the straight-up "I'm on third, but I'm super-fast, so as the pitcher gets into his windup I'll just steal freaking home" one: every time it seems like the batter steps back to clear the plate as the pitch comes down. Is it a strike?
(Or even a ball, I suppose?)
 
@nitsua60 I don't know what happens when the pitcher throws a pitch but the batter has stepped back out of the batter's box
there is a sports.SE...
 
@Shalvenay Yeah, I think I've answered one question over there.
 
2:53 AM
@Miniman one last bit on the BBEG fight yesterday: a Commander's Strike or two came my way. So I got some nice reaction-attacks in there, too.
 
@nitsua60 Party members utilizing their resources to maximize the effectiveness of the party member most suited for the task at hand? Madness!
 
(Just remembered)
 
3:43 AM
@nitsua60 Actually, just incidentally, I'm curious what you thought of SKT - I've been hearing a lot of good stuff about it.
 
 
1 hour later…
"Fomend’s Beating Sphere" that actually sounds pretty effective
oh, a spell of Farming,.... that would be really useful actually XD
 
5:19 AM
> Finger of Enftebtemang
Fomend’s Beating Sphere
Looks like we have some new archmages...
The great wizard Enftebtemang and his nemesis Fomend
 
5:36 AM
I will still those names
 
Want to fight on the back of an enormous dragon? Dragon scale battlemat
 
 
3 hours later…
8:39 AM
this reminded me of a silly build I had
basically a skald with a ton of animal handling
he was charming snakes, and had bags full of them. During a fight he would throw them at his foes
the normal reaction from opponents was to kill the snakes: big mistake !
 
 
2 hours later…
10:19 AM
/me yays! got access to the CLOSEhammer!
 
@Trish congratulations!
 
now, where do we hide the nails? ;)
 
3k rep is a nice place to be.
 
Well, I still need to figure out some questions...
That I meant to ask ages ago...
but in a group as tight knit as this, one call to VTC on the chat usually closes it
 
10:59 AM
@Trish Mostly when it's obvious the question should be closed and needs to be closed ASAP. VTC requests in chat where it's not so clear-cut don't tend to get traction beyond what we'd normally experience on the site (which means people tend to not bother bringing those to chat anyway). That's also kind of important, because it means chat users don't dominate site moderation beyond the obvious cases where nobody would question the closure.
 
Chat users are just the better first responders... and yea, it usually is an outcry of "wrong SE" or "Gibberish!"
 
11:30 AM
Everything but the touchpad (glued to the case), the display (cracked to hell), the keyboard (missing all the keys), and the hard drive (the only part the original owner cared about).

[Sorry for the late response; I'd been on the road after posting that and kind of forgot about it ^^"]
 
11:44 AM
@Trish welcome to the cabal =)
 
@Papayaman1000 I did salvage just a cooler from an old laptop... and plan to use it to make a little 'turbofan cooler' for the 3D printer coming sometime next week.
a 5V 0.25A Radial thingy. The housing I have to priont for it weighs approx 21 grams, the fan duct to reach around the hotend I don't know yet, but all in all it will stay under 50 grams including the cooler fan. Or... I find a way to make it even lighter.
and... off to lecture!
 
 
2 hours later…
1:45 PM
top the morn
 
bonan tagon
 
gameday comin' tomorrow. apparently DM has made up a custom boss. cannnot wait.
 
Cool.
 
have no idea what to expect, other than it being very difficult and high risk to us as players.
must kill it quickly
 
2:06 PM
mornin
 
@DForck42 howdy howdy
 
@NautArch how goes it?
 
@NautArch I told my players that in a one shot I ran a few weeks ago, and they had no issues with it. A few weeks later I ran another one shot that I thought would be pretty easy, and one of their characters died.
 
@Rob: yesterday I had a game where we played undeads in a setting that reminded strongly about yours, it was fun
 
@Adam i'm more concerned that this DM often likes to do have creatures that take magic items/reduce ability scores.
 
2:16 PM
> Player: "I want to jump over this waist-high wall."
> DM: "Make an Acrobatics check."
> *player rolls 1*
> DM: "Your foot catches the wall and you fall flat on your face."
> Player: "I try to handspring back onto my feet."
> *player rolls 1*
> DM: "As you push off your hands, your foot slips and you land squarely on your back."
> Player: "I attempt to roll to my feet."
> *player rolls 1*
> DM: "You roll too far and collide with a rock."
> Player: "... I jump off the cliff, this die is cursed."
 
@Yuuki he flew instead?
 
@NautArch Flying is just falling and missing the ground.
 
@Yuuki yup
 
@Yuuki exactly
 
@NautArch Super rust monsters! This is your future
 
2:22 PM
As long as I fall, I don't hit the ground, as long as I fall I sing that sound...
 
@Adam probably. either way, i'm gonna smite it.
based off another GitP thread, considering posting a question - but I think it's too vague/unanswerable. Does WoTC assume that all senses are equally finely tuned or that in cases of perceiving a living creature sight>hearing.
 
hi
 
howdy @satibel
 
regarding http://rpg.stackexchange.com/a/97835
is there a consensus on an answer regarding a different dnd edition? or do I need to post on meta?
should I :
ask as community and self answer a new question tagged dnd 3.5
nuke my answer?
tag it in a specific way?
something else?
 
@satibel you should repost it under dnd 3.5.
 
2:33 PM
@satibel you're probably better off just deleting it
answering a question that's for a specific version with the rules for a different version just adds noise to the question, rater than adding anything helpful
 
ok, so meta here we go.
 
I am still surprised that I got so many upvotes for that question.
 
@satibel I would delete it, they are asking about 5e, and you are not answering their question. If you think the information is valuable enough you can ask a 3.5e version of the question and self-answer it
 
@diego yeah, a self-answer for the 3.5 version would be totally fine
 
@satibel why meta? It's just a new 3.5 question and potential self-answer.
but yeah, I agree with @diego to delete your answer since it doesn't apply to 5e.
 
2:36 PM
I mean, asking on meta to have a community agreement on this general case.
 
@satibel you can ask, but it's pretty clear. You gave an irrelevant answer to a question. If you'd liket o answer the question to have it available to 3.5e, you'd simply ask/answer with that tag.
 
@NautArch I don't think that's too vague, but I don't think you'll get the coveted "WoTC said this about perceiving with the senses..." answer. More likely you'll get answers saying something like "Not every creature has blindsight/tremorsense/some other perceptive ability, so they don't assume all senses are equal" or "If all senses were equal, you wouldn't have a penalty against attacking invisible creatures, so the senses must be differently tuned" or something like that
 
@Adam yeah, that's why i wasn't sure about posting it. I guess it comes down to the massive ruleset around how to handle various visual impairments (heavy/light obscurity, etc.) but nothing around audio impairments.
 
@NautArch Aside from the stuff around being deafened, which is pretty much just "you fail at any check requiring hearing"
 
@Adam right it seems it's a binary state and doesn't have grades. Unless the DM wants to introduce them.
 
2:47 PM
Having extra keen senses is modelled (in 5e at least) by granting Advantage on checks with them
 
@Adam but does that then mean that it is assumed living creatures are auto perceived by sight AND by hearing as long as they are in range? And there is no real range for daylight vision for anything reasonably close and therefore the same with hearing?
 
But the DC for alle senses seems to be same by default
 
@NautArch what's the problem you're trying to solve?
 
@DForck42 the argument was more about if you have an invisible creature that hasn't taken the hide action, is it's location known through hearing? And are there (always?) circumstances that will limit the ability to hear their sound to locate them.
but then let led me to think that if there are, you are making vision>hearing for locating a non-hidden creature. And i'm not sure if design intent was that or why there aren't audio obscurity levels.
 
@NautArch I don't think it's unanswerable, but I also don't think it'll get lots of upvotes. The answer's pretty simple: "WotC doesn't say anything about precedence of senses, and goes out of its way to remind us that senses other than sight do exist. (Stealth, hiding rules, existence of blindsight and tremorsense.)"
@NautArch Generally, the less closely I look at how 5e handles vision/light/visibility, the happier I find myself and my players.
 
2:55 PM
Instead of trying to scramble my brain, I think I'll just give the generic 5e answer: Who cares what WoTC thinks, do whatever makes you happy
 
I think it's entirely in DM-ruling territory. I don't think there's any rules for whether you can detect a creature that doesn't make any sound if you can't see.
 
@DForck42 (With the exception if the "proper" system's rules don't cover the situation, and there's some argument to be made that this other system's rules would be good to use.) (cc: @satibel)
 
Creatures like Shadows and incorporeals don't usually make sound (unless they want to) but there's nothing in the rules about it
 
@Erik and that's what makes me uncomfortable. It seems that WoTC totally whiffed on how to handle hearing. Unless their assumption is "you can always hear unless someone is actively trying to be unheard(aka hiding) or there is a mechanical effect removing hearing (e.g. Silence spell)"
Or is it also that it is n't just about not seeing the creature, but they have an effect on the environment.
so it's a mixture of autoperceiving a location because of visual cues of their environmental impact and the sounds they make.
 

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