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Joel Etherton

 Discussion on question by Spruce: Do …

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Joel Etherton
Dec 3, 2024 08:15
It is your employer's right to dictate the culture of the environment in the workplace. You do not have a "right" to work there. If the culture doesn't fit your personal beliefs, you have an obligation to quit.
 

 Discussion on answer by josh3736: I'm…

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Joel Etherton
Jun 20, 2024 16:47
@Parrotmaster it's not nearly as condescending as it probably should be. OP has chosen the name "Fullstack Geek" and then written a post whining about being assigned to work on a part of the stack. This answer is very well written and even offers a note of encouragement that OP should "Use this as a chance to knock it out of the park".
 

 Discussion on answer by Flater: How c…

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Joel Etherton
Oct 4, 2023 22:58
@BartvanIngenSchenau That's a fair point. It is indeed at it's very core a "contract". It is, however, excessively malleable in favor mostly of employers.
Joel Etherton
Oct 4, 2023 14:27
@BartvanIngenSchenau Your inability to accept it does not make it untrue. The core of a US employment contract is literally: "We pay you X as a job title Y." That job title can change without notice. The job responsibilities can change without notice. The only exception is a 1099 contractor working against a statement of work. These positions are fairly rare.
 

 Discussion on question by PoliteShark…

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Joel Etherton
Oct 1, 2023 11:16
Any severance received will be contingent on all documents being signed. You don't sign, you don't get the severance. The question for you is: Which is more important to you - receiving the severance or not signing the document?
 

 Discussion on question by Acheron: Is…

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Joel Etherton
Mar 6, 2023 19:15
I would challenge you to prove that these behaviors are "not professional". Is there an international standards organization with a guide that you can cite? Is there an internal company document that makes these references? All this question says to me is that you don't approve of their behaviors, and from the references it sounds like it is not your place to approve or disapprove in this manner.
 

 Discussion on question by gregarious:…

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Joel Etherton
Dec 22, 2022 09:47
As someone with a security clearance, you are expected to be aware that your travel is relevant to that clearance. You are also expected to be aware that there is no "innocuous information". Your clearance makes your private life relevant. If you were abroad more than 6 months, you may be committing tax fraud on top of any other dishonesty regarding your working situation.
 

 Discussion on question by Display nam…

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Joel Etherton
Dec 9, 2022 15:57
"If i get an offer from another company I'm taking it. Here is my offer to you: {amount}"
 

 Discussion on question by Papermate: …

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Joel Etherton
Nov 15, 2022 18:27
@Job_September_2020 if someone remotely accessed the laptop it would only take reading a few emails to pick out some names and titles to target something like this without context.
 

 Discussion on question by jkelly80: W…

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Joel Etherton
Oct 23, 2022 06:40
How about option 4. Actually learn how to work and move in steel toed boots. They're not actually that cumbersome, and any inability to work in them in this fashion is a direct correlation of your inability and unwillingness to train. If you still feel it's unsafe then option 5: quit and pick a new career.
4
 

 Discussion on question by panoptical:…

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Joel Etherton
Jul 18, 2022 15:16
@panoptical: "good faith" doesn't have any bearing. It's a clear ethical breach even if it was just for study materials, and it's made even worse by them providing more than you asked for. It's not anything like asking your professor for these materials. Your professor is available to all people studying for the exam. Is your friend equally available to EVERYONE taking the exam in the same capacity?
Joel Etherton
Jul 18, 2022 15:16
You are not in an "ethical quandary". It is clear what the ethical thing to do is. You've already breached ethical protocol. Approaching a member of a certifying board for a technical exam? The only thing you did right was report the sending of the materials. You're lucky still to be employed there. Follow the instructions given, then apply yourself to passing the exam properly. Seek out assistance and study materials from your director and people who are not part of the exam process.
 

 Discussion on question by user311438:…

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Joel Etherton
Jul 17, 2022 17:54
@electronpusher: I agree, OP did nothing "morally" wrong. That doesn't mean OP did something right. The email was unnecessary, and while it had good intentions, the results did not match. This is one of the concepts a lot of folks tend to miss is that by "going that extra mile" sometimes we're putting unintentional separation and distinction. It's a lesson to be learned, nothing more really.
Joel Etherton
Jul 17, 2022 17:54
The moment you sent the email to all partners is when you drew attention to it. You spoke to the partner in question. He considered the matter resolved. You pressed publicly and it drew attention to him that he didn't want. You did it without asking him how it would impact him. While unintentional, you have drawn negative unwanted attention to him.
 

 Discussion on answer by Philip Kendal…

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Joel Etherton
Jul 16, 2022 00:53
I think a small add on is that the decision has been made and providing feedback is time and energy they don't want to spend on someone who is not a member of the company.
 

 Discussion on question by The Great: …

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Joel Etherton
Jun 13, 2022 09:12
Why are you worried about "politely"? He clearly isn't.
 

 Discussion on question by 965311532: …

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Joel Etherton
Jun 8, 2022 10:14
@JuliaHayward: I was about to write that same exact comment. That's a huge red flag that would make me run for the hills.
 

 Discussion on question by Joe Smentz:…

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Joel Etherton
Dec 14, 2021 18:12
@JoeSmentz Fred doesn't need to understand your business relationship with Stan. He has a business relationship with Stan. Fred doesn't need to know how things are "actually working". There is still nothing wrong with this arrangement legally or ethically (as everyone else on this thread seems to grasp). You are disgruntled because Stan is benefiting more from your work than you are. Welcome to business. I understand you want there to be something wrong with this, and there just isn't.
Joel Etherton
Dec 14, 2021 16:34
@JoeSmentz I don't see anyone who has been lied to. If there was dishonesty happening, you would have absolutely no knowledge of Fred through normal channels. Nothing has been done under the table, you're simply disgruntled because you're getting significantly less money from Fred than you feel you deserve. The only one here who has made a mistake is you. Fortunately you don't have a contract so you can correct it. If you want to be mad at someone, take a look in the mirror. No one in the equation has mistreated you, and if you mistreat "Stan" as a result of this you could alienate "Fred".
Joel Etherton
Dec 14, 2021 16:34
@JoeSmentz: There's nothing unethical about it. Subcontracting is a part of business. Many businesses will hire contractors to perform work and then charge out exorbitant rates that the contractors themselves could never charge. There are a ton of companies that do this. They generally have stiff contracts that prevent the contractors from undercutting or going around them (such as Solar Mike was suggesting). When I was a contractor, companies charged 3 times what they paid me.
 

 Discussion on question by Tundra: For…

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Joel Etherton
Dec 8, 2021 19:26
@Tundra: Based on the question and your comments, it doesn't sound like you're actually interested in solving the root problem. If you (leadership at your company) want to stop the bleeding, you need to start treating people with respect and being accountable as a leadership team. Until that's done, the hemorrhaging will continue.
 

 Discussion on question by Elisease: C…

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Joel Etherton
Oct 28, 2021 18:50
What result do you hope to get out of saying anything?
 

 Discussion on question by sobralis: H…

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Joel Etherton
Sep 1, 2021 00:46
I've solved the problem by just lying about the salary - always a bad idea. If you don't feel comfortable sharing it, you're better off saying that.
 

 Discussion on question by lara400: As…

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Joel Etherton
Jul 16, 2021 04:43
My manager said not to worry about it and if anyone has problems just advise him and HR - This is not about "tattling" or "running to the boss". This kind of harassment is dangerous for companies and it can't be tolerated. It must be reported if the company is to be allowed to protect itself. While you'll be able to handle the harassment in your own right, if the company doesn't know it's going on they won't be able to act on it effectively.
 

 Discussion on question by Proton8: Am…

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Joel Etherton
Jun 13, 2021 03:30
@WernerCD: I still didn't make him that. I think you might be impaired.
Joel Etherton
Jun 13, 2021 03:30
@WernerCD: you missed the operative clause. I didn't make him a lead.
Joel Etherton
Jun 13, 2021 03:30
@WernerCD: I didn't make him a lead. He indicated he was made a lead. A lead is accountable. It doesn't matter if they're a new hire or not. That's the nature of the role.
Joel Etherton
Jun 13, 2021 03:30
You just indicated in your question that you're effectively the development lead. That makes you the "single wringable neck". You're being called to account for the team's work. Why does this suddenly seem unreasonable to you?
 

 Discussion on answer by Matthew Gaise…

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Joel Etherton
Jun 9, 2021 08:43
Let us continue this discussion in chat.
Joel Etherton
Jun 9, 2021 08:43
@GabeSechan: Because uphill battles are the ones that actually grow you. Running to a new employer just drags your problems along with you. I've executed a good number of PIPs successfully, and those people still work on my teams. It doesn't always work out that way. A person gets out of it what they put into it. This is becoming a chat worthy back-and-forth. I'll gladly have a conversation with you to change your perspective on the topic.
Joel Etherton
Jun 9, 2021 08:43
@GabeSechan: That's a very cynical viewpoint. I'd love to see any case studies or metrics you could cite as evidence of your assertion. Also, nothing will change unless people act to change it. This isn't how I treat PIPs, and I would encourage anyone faced with a PIP to evaluate it fully in their own own best interest. Even if it is being used as a mechanism to put someone out of an organization, it's still an opportunity to learn and be better.
Joel Etherton
Jun 9, 2021 08:43
@Hilmar: No doubt. It's a common practice. My comment was a suggestion that it's not universal.
Joel Etherton
Jun 9, 2021 08:43
It comes down to very honest conversations, and it requires significant trust on the part of the person going on the PIP. When I execute a PIP, it's with specific measurables and deliverables with checkpoints along the way. When it's successfully completed, it's delivered as a clean slate, and the importance is adhering to that. It can't be used against someone in the future (emotionally/mentally). I make my PIPs about a changing of habits rather than just a "return to productivity". It's easy to tell half way through a PIP what the end outcome is going to be.
Joel Etherton
Jun 9, 2021 08:43
PIPS are not always paperwork collection for termination. I've used them several times to turn employees around successfully. You're right, though, a PIP without actionable consequences is pointless.
 

 Discussion on question by LawrenceC: …

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Joel Etherton
Jun 8, 2021 15:44
@hanshenrik: "won't be able to" is my polite way of saying "I refuse to".
Joel Etherton
Jun 8, 2021 15:44
I wouldn't recommend contacting the new company. Let it go. I would recommend contacting this person and let them know you won't be able to provide a reference in the future due to the impact you're incurring from unprofessional behavior.
 

 Discussion between Joel Etherton and …

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Joel Etherton
Jun 7, 2021 21:22
@GabeSechan: You get out what you put in. To be frank, if someone behaved as you described when I was delivering a PIP, I'd let you go immediately without any qualms.
Joel Etherton
Jun 7, 2021 15:38
Our paperwork is always kept up to date. If I feel an employee will not be successful in completing a PIP, we don't need to execute one. We only execute a PIP when we believe the employee is worth saving because it is a massive time investment on our end. I only work places where I feel I can grow. Every engineer on my teams can work just about any place they want. They're here because they're growing in skills and opportunity.
Joel Etherton
Jun 7, 2021 15:31
@GabeSechan: No it doesn't. If you were my employee we would already have had that frank discussion several times. The conversation would begin with the statement that the PIP is a clear indication in a failure of leadership combined with an inability to meet expectations. The PIP is a clear setting of expectations for both sides of the conversation, and the items are there to hold leadership just as accountable for the progress of it.
Joel Etherton
Jun 7, 2021 15:29
@GabeSechan: Because uphill battles are the ones that actually grow you. Running to a new employer just drags your problems along with you. I've executed a good number of PIPs successfully, and those people still work on my teams. It doesn't always work out that way. A person gets out of it what they put into it. This is becoming a chat worthy back-and-forth. I'll gladly have a conversation with you to change your perspective on the topic.
Joel Etherton
Jun 7, 2021 15:29
@GabeSechan: That's a very cynical viewpoint. I'd love to see any case studies or metrics you could cite as evidence of your assertion. Also, nothing will change unless people act to change it. This isn't how I treat PIPs, and I would encourage anyone faced with a PIP to evaluate it fully in their own own best interest. Even if it is being used as a mechanism to put someone out of an organization, it's still an opportunity to learn and be better.
Joel Etherton
Jun 7, 2021 15:29
It comes down to very honest conversations, and it requires significant trust on the part of the person going on the PIP. When I execute a PIP, it's with specific measurables and deliverables with checkpoints along the way. When it's successfully completed, it's delivered as a clean slate, and the importance is adhering to that. It can't be used against someone in the future (emotionally/mentally). I make my PIPs about a changing of habits rather than just a "return to productivity". It's easy to tell half way through a PIP what the end outcome is going to be.
Joel Etherton
Jun 7, 2021 15:29
@Hilmar: No doubt. It's a common practice. My comment was a suggestion that it's not universal.
Joel Etherton
Jun 7, 2021 15:29
PIPS are not always paperwork collection for termination. I've used them several times to turn employees around successfully. You're right, though, a PIP without actionable consequences is pointless.
 

 Discussion on question by kei1aeh5qua…

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Joel Etherton
May 16, 2021 21:27
You're at the beginning of your career. Short of quitting with a YouTube video or getting arrested while doing it, you're unlikely to do anything that is going to limit you. Find your next job, be professional on the way out, and enjoy the funny anecdotes when they're part of your history.
 

 Discussion on question by k--: I thin…

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Joel Etherton
May 14, 2021 09:48
@G.Ann-SonarSourceTeam: OMG you just nailed one of my pet peeves.
 

 Discussion on answer by dan.m was use…

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Joel Etherton
May 5, 2021 12:14
@dan.mwasuser2321368: From your answer about default expectation: ` it should be to assume that they need to be managed, and only start pulling back when those employees have shown they can take some of those responsibilities themselves.` This is micromanagement to me in a professional setting. This is the kind of management useful in non-professional settings.
Joel Etherton
May 5, 2021 12:14
@ColleenV: These two were set up to fail. Agreed. There should have been working agreements and expectations established up front. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and all that. I still don't think the expectation of micromanagement is the way to go.
Joel Etherton
May 5, 2021 12:14
@Fattie: It's easy to argue with it. At a professional level, it's a default expectation that individuals can work together and self-manage, and it's the manager's responsibility to coach them through instances where they find that difficult. If you're a manager at a fast-food restaurant, then I agree with you. The entire staff probably needs direct micro-managing right from the start. I think the difference for OP and me is that I set that expectation up front very clearly for every direct report.
Joel Etherton
May 5, 2021 12:14
I didn't downvote, and I'm not a fan of this answer since it assumes a low expectation of direct reports. There's a direct undertone of immediate micromanagement that I don't feel is effective. It's possible that your intention is to indicate a level setting of higher expectations at the beginning of the project/assignment/whatever. That's not how this answer reads to me.