Adam Heeg

@GeorgeNtoulos Your 14 year old is exhibiting behaviors that will result in being arrested. More importantly, they are demonstrating complete disregard for social norms, the safety and health of those around them, and in the long run if you don't take control then a police officer will (later when this behavior continues as an adult). The fact is that if you don't teach this young person some important life lessons then society will. Society teaches these lessons by loss of jobs, fines, imprisonment, and other legal issues. You avoiding teaching this lesson will only harm them later.

@GeorgeNtoulos My goal is to avoid seeing you back on here in 8 years asking how you can rebuild a relationship with a then adult child who is in and out of jail and can't hold a job due to the inability to emote with others and place those around them in a high enough regard to treat them safely and respectfully. You continue to make intellectual arguments while your house is falling around you. Your intellectual arguments against taking control are a modern day 'emperor's new clothes' situation. I'll continue below.

Begging and imploring are not parenting. You are the core issue as you routinely state how you avoid using your power to both protect the innocent and discipline the aggressor. Power and HOW you wield it are critical components of effective parenting. I dont know why you frown on it, but you abdication of exerting control specifically from the power of your role as the parent is the reason there is a problem.

@DavidHedlund speaking of, where do you stand on the bible and Jesus Christ?

@DavidHedlund I agree 100% that parents > social authority. you are treading into Libertarian theology now, and you'll find if you keep on in that domain you will find youself in the bible

Not to mention, our society works on, and would totally fail without (including yours) police with guns, and jails. Authority with power to incarcerate is the basis of all civilization. Don't forget that!

@DavidHedlund I have started reviewing the references you provided. Personally, I noted some of those thing I do already, some I don't. More specifically I truly believe there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between ages 2-5 and all other ages.

yes, i enjoy the challenge of other ideas too!

@DavidHedlund i think it is obvious to say we are a product of the culture and time we live in. We have different culture/time constructs, and i'm hoping @anongoodnurse can point to some research that demonstrates some of the finer scientific research and evidence for some of the ways I have grown up thinking.

@anongoodnurse can you point me to any information demonstrating that the ages 3-7 are the most critical years for childhood discipline? I remember reading that parents who don't put in the work from ages 3-7 (maybe 5) are kinda out of look in the teenage years.

I'm glad we got to discuss. When time permits I'll try to look into the topic more. As a libertarian I agree that obedient grown ups is a scary thing. The pandemic proved that, on both sides.

I worry for them.

My wife and I run 2 kids groups (church related) and we have to accept kids as they come. And let me tell you they are difficult, more than than the past according to our experience and the volunteers we have. I also personally feel like self-discipline is a core factor to success. So many kids get washed away by lack of discipline and the inability to complete basic requirements in the advanced society we've created in western culture.

If it helps, I never liked and always felt terrible inflicting corporal punishment. My kids were all different in the amount they needed/received. My middle child got the most, and at age 13 she has a badge of honor for taking the most work to get 'socialized/disciplined'. I can honestly say we have a great open and loving relationship. Anyway, my point is if you find over the next 5 years or so that your kids are doing well I'd love to hear about it.

You make great points. Perhaps we should include that information in our answers for the OP's benefit in considering. From my perspective I don't want to cause a parent to be breaking the law. That is not something I want to be responsible for.

not saying i'm an expert though

I have reviewed the opening information on Autonomy Support Parenting, and it seems a lot of it is geared toward education learning and to LGBTQ+ topcis.

we have a lot more broken homes and fatherless children i believe

@DavidHedlund ok, that clears a lot up. Obviously I'm a conservative in the USA and from a fundamental perspective we don't agree. However, I am intrigued by what has happened in your country.

Can we back up for a second though? I work with kids in school, sports, and extra curricular activities. I also have 3, the oldest is 16, and she would of course say I'm not perfect and she'd be right. However, as noted there is a difference between theory and practicality. Are you in a position where you have implemented this ideas and are speaking from personal experience, or is it more ideas for you? (note, i'm not against ideas, it is how we grow).

I get it, we're on different sides, I'm pleased that you are cool headed about it though. At the least we can express our ideas civilly :)

@DavidHedlund hey wanna chat about our conflicting ideas?

i.e. am i just not popular, or am I wrong

what has happened to parenting? parenting.stackexchange.com/questions/41589/…

General statement, I'm very upset that this site is censoring valid comments and concerns as well promoting a question which is forcing the validity of rioting in specific terms of attacking and destroying innocent people and their property. parenting.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1402/…

@blarg Sounds like the main issue is from your wife, which is fine, but be clear about your motivation if so. Secondly, you didn't mention why you believe praising your daughter is wrong AND you didn't mention ever explaining it to your mother, only that you told her you wanted her to stop. Can you add details to fill in these gaps?

@JonathanReez you should read their own analysis of the data at the end. The graph implied what you are saying is true, but in the Discussion area of the post there is a much more nuanced response including, " A recent psychological study using priming methods provided suggestive evidence of a possible association between high income and a reduced ability to savor small pleasures". Also it states $75k household income being the point where more money does not in fact create more happiness. :) I think you opened my eyes, but there is room for interpretation here.

@Servaes you and others have kind of focused on d-b, perhaps because he outright stated 'questionable moral'. I'd like to take a step back and say, this is a comments section and in the context of parenting comments should have more lee-way than in stack-overflow for instance. My experience as a parent and my educational and teaching background both give me credit to at the minimum suggest to a seemingly new parent that there may be different and potentially better ways to view any given parental situation. We all learn as we go. As for me I have no ill will towards op and wish them best

@JonathanReez your premise that high income and money generally makes people happier doesn't seem to have any scientific basis. I believe most data points to the opposite conclusion.

The nature of the question worries me. I think there is much greater benefit to be find in first focusing on safe emotional development, then later focusing on academic interests if that is the child's wish. Your relationship with the child and the child's relationship with the world will have a bigger impact on their happiness and success than any IQ Number...

The mods are blatantly protecting each other and silencing valid concerns. This is outright censorship via abuse of power. My question on the Meta Parenting site as well as the constant deleting of valid comments (even again today) confirms it

@RoryAlsop my comment was directed at the answer provided following the guidelines and expectations of comments on Stack. I was not in a discussion with anyone else. My comment should be left under the answer.

Downvoted due to no attempt to identify a general (not complete, but majority) truth that protesters and rioters are 2 separate groups of people. I think it is lazy and inciteful to group the two into a single entity. I believe a major issue with our country handling these issues are most cops dont kill and most protesters dont riot, but that reality is being ignored due to emotions and social pupeteering.

For some scientific resources and analysis you can check this post I had on another question. Section II is the main real relevant part. parenting.stackexchange.com/questions/37397/…

In fact, we're talking about parenting and young children, there is absolutely no connection to your comment about pubs or football. I believe you are arguing against some invisible straw man you created in your mind.

You have some strange ideas. A parent wanting the best for their children and trying to understand the pitfalls related to technology is not an equivalent to "technology is change for the worse" or an idealization of hanging out in a pubs.

Your point seems to be people are already messed up, why should we care if technology continues the issue? My point is that we can do better and the whole topic here is about how to go about it! If I am misunderstanding your point please excuse me.

Also, just because kids you and I knew had no social skills doesn't mean we should just hand our kids technology to shut them up and ignore the fact that this will diminish their ability to socialize and emote with other human beings.

@Luaan I (perhaps incorrectly) think you are saying tech has similar dangers in type to other things we do. However, the ways we deal with those dangers is unique to tech, and we have more control over a 3 year old using technology than we do him trying to climb a tree.

@Luaan you seem to be taking the post personally, is there a specific personal experience or belief that is threatened by David's answer? I think his answer is on point and relevant. While the same list of issue may plague other activities or mediums that fact does not negate the reality of their impact in technology. Neither does it diminish the listing of them as a valuable tool for parents and young adults to use personal rules and regulations to minimize their impact.

@joe Thanks, I think it is worth a try. I won't be able to get to it for a bit, but i'll try to get a response in before 'opinions' take over!

@anongoodnurse I do not know the details behind the author of that post. However, I can find very little useful material. Either people are against it and can't speak in a way that is personal and real, or people assume identity crisis is normal and to be encouraged.... What a difficult topic.

This link seems to give a good foothold on the topic. Your personal experience may differ, but this is a good way to ground yourself so you can move forward in this difficult time. thejungsoul.com/…

It seems a clear minded discussion that isn't flooded with emotions won't happen. I think that working for that is a good first step. For the record I believe in 2 genders (the whole biology thing), and that women can like 'man' stuff and vice versa. I also believe Love first is the best approach. patience is a fruit of love. So, try to focus on your love for your daughter, not your fear of losing her or the various troubles that may come from this. (fyi, since this isn't chat our comments will probably be deleted at some point).

I'd chat with you to 'be there', but i can't figure out the chat rooms! But, hang in there. Remember to not lose sight of who you are and how you want to relate to your daughter through this time.

I pray we get some thoughtful responses to this. I have so many thoughts, but so little experience I can only hope to learn here.

@ChrisRogers i'm here if you want to chat.

your points are logical, thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge. I agree with the fact that vague generic information or pure anecdotal responses are detrimental in the long term and that there is huge value to having a repository of knowledge to preserve. it is a tough balancing act in some situations.

i need to head out now. good talk.

I understand what you're trying to say, because the question is written from one perspective, but the answers are being evaluated from a second perspective it creates a gap which causes loss of understanding and quality of the questions and answers. I'll try to give it close attention and see if you can win me over or at least make me more sympathetic to your point.