Clarinetist

I left teaching at the right time

I haven't gotten into the general equity stuff that I've been hearing about, but I won't go there

It's a mess these days

Yeah

In case you want to read more: utdanacenter.org/our-work/higher-education/…

Not to mention, convincing a student to take 8 credits of math in one semester is a very hard sell

I was extremely, extremely skeptical of the stats one I mentioned above when it was being proposed

I believe I've seen one example of this so far in the elementary statistics sequence, for example, where they pair one section of it with an elementary algebra course, totaling 8 credits in one semester

If they are, say, two levels behind college algebra, in this current semester, you would have them enroll in two courses simultaneously so as to try to prepare them in an accelerated pace for college algebra

If you're not familiar with co-requisite models, as a hypothetical example, suppose you're trying to have a student take college algebra one semester from now (because that's a college-level math class)

Apparently they are being told by higher-ups higher than that VP that they will be moving into co-requisite models

Yes

The department chair described to me that his perception is that the VP doesn't think faculty have any interest in trying to improve developmental-math teaching

I should have said 1-year-college-level-math completion

@TedShifrin Yes, C-or-higher rates

It sounds like the STEM dean is being pushed out because of his perceived lack of willingness to push faculty to increase their 1-year-college-level-math placement rates

I was catching up with my former department chair from 2 jobs ago

Speaking of which

@TedShifrin I mean, there's truth to this. The revenue-generators are statistics and calculus, from what I've seen

Rest well. I am going to try to walk in this 40F (5C) weather

Absolutely no disagreement there

In fact, I will openly admit that the calculus sequence was mostly pointless for me and wish I could've skipped to analysis, like every European country seems to do

Calculus in the style of Stewart/Thomas? Of course not

You'd have someone throwing a small-sample problem at you and using pre-packaged code to something, and then you'd have to tell them their results don't make sense because it relies on those two things, which are asymptotic in nature when they have a sample size of like, say, 6

Those are things that I had to refer to every day as a statistician in my last role

e.g., Delta method, Wilks' theorem

I don't know of any bachelor's degree in stats in the US that covers this information

I should also mention that the stuff I'm talking about is above the scope of the actuarial exams, too

@XanderHenderson Oh of course, no denying that

Statisticians have their own forms of convergence they are concerned about, and it's impossible to make them precise without calculus

@XanderHenderson It is not touched on until the masters-level courses (in the US) in a mathematical statistics course, which requires analysis as a prerequisite

@XanderHenderson Not really. It's mostly hypothesis testing in the continuous case and dealing with asymptotic behavior, as well as what to do when you can't reasonably employ asymptotics

@TedShifrin Last I heard, there was a proposal to delay algebra to 9th grade for the sake of equity, and whoever's spearheading that is back to the drawing board, delaying the project

@TedShifrin California Mathematics Framework

@XanderHenderson Having done stats in practice... you really need it. Most of stats involves taking $n \to \infty$ and unless you've worked through the theory, you'd have no idea

@TedShifrin I suppose you've read about CMF?

@XanderHenderson There is a CSU, from what I recall, which only requires Calc 1 for their undergrad stats degree. They also have an MS degree which is substantially watered down.

@TedShifrin These people are in for a rude awakening when they hit grad school

but yes

@TedShifrin From what I've seen, this is actually most

Most BS stats degrees don't cover this content

If you want to get through a PhD easily, you need at least 3-4 semesters of analysis + functional analysis on top of the MS requirements

If you want to get through an MS easily, you need one semester of real analysis, multivariable calc, and linear algebra

In fact, you usually go through the same material in all three levels, just with different math backgrounds assumed

Stats curricula in the US is generally disconnected: a BS does not help you with an MS, an MS does not help you with a PhD

I was venting about how you could just go straight to a PhD in stats (at least in the US) with a math bachelor's degree

Yeah, I have started to become cynical about the stats degree, honestly

Ultimately, the reality I think is that computer science graduates are getting the jobs now

I've been only casually searching for jobs, and was rejected from a data scientist position (not a senior one, mind you) for not having professional experience with natural language processing, for example, after a phone interview

Stats degrees are not really showing their worth in industry work, and I think people are noticing that