English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Matt Эллен

1:00 PM

@Mahnax I have never thought about it like that. I guess I will live a little :D

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus That is not at all like what I am saying.

Mahnax

@MattЭллен Yay!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I am not saying that someone will hear a rape joke then immediately go out and rape someone.

I am saying that joking about stuff indicates that it is not something serious or important.

And if something is not serious or important then it must not be that bad.

And if you don't think people feel that way about rape, you haven't listened to a word I said.

Because it's abundantly clear that a huge number of people feel just fine in raping women. either violently or through date-rape.

So clearly there is a world-wide problem of men not understanding that IT IS NOT OKAY TO RAPE.

Jez

wow, that was the first thing i read as i came into the room

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

And even you, cerb, have this problem: you yourself were fine with the fact that your friend might have been raped.

You are part of this problem, Cerb. You.

That is my position on this subject. It is far more serious a problem than you want to admit.

Matt Эллен

1:02 PM

@Jez be glad you haven't been here since it started

RegDwighт

@Mahnax that, of course, is nonsense. Humbajudra Limpopo doesn't live, but he isn't dead, either. To be dead, he'd have to have lived first, and I only just invented him.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

And on account of that seriousness I do not tolerate rape jokes. When the whole world fucking grows up a little, then it might be okay.

Mahnax

@RegDwighт But I was not talking to Humbajudra Limpopo. I was talking to Matt.

Cerberus

And if something is not serious or important then it must not be that bad. — How does this not apply to "fun" shooting games?

RegDwighт

@Mahnax there's your problem right there. QED.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:03 PM

@Cerberus we don't have a shooting culture.

Matt Эллен

hey!

I'm not a problem to talk to

RegDwighт

They have a shoeing culture.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Most of the world does not live in a society where people are being shot all the time.

RegDwighт

They wear shoes all the time. All the time.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Also it's more clear to someone with violent tendencies that murder is way worse than rape, because someone can only be murdered once. So even the dullest spoon in the knife drawer can understand that.

RegDwighт

1:04 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 well I dunno, define "all the time".

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, I never make real rape jokes, and neither does anyone in my circles, and yet people in my circles think drunken LAT sex is not generally rape. So apparently your idea about rape jokes doesn't apply to me.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But people are shot every day.

Jez

heavy.com/comedy/comedy-videos/family-guy/2010/03/…

"50 nos and a yesh means yesh"

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Not with the same frequency as people are raped.

Cerberus

But anyway, I keep seeing these annoying pop-ups from my shared Dropbox folder, when people are editing part of the 200-pages-long legal dissertation I'm supposed to correct today.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus People in your circle are part of rape culture.

Mahnax

1:07 PM

@Cerberus I dislike those games for exactly that reason.

They glorify violence, and I despise violence.

Cerberus

Or they're just normal people and the girls in my circles (which are probably more than half) don't really think it is a problem either. You're trying to create a crime where there is none.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The problem with rape culture isn't that there are rapes. It's that there are so may of them and people don't take it seriously enough. A woman (or man) should be able to get totally drunk and not find out that someone took advantage of them and raped them when they were incapacitated. Why is that so hard to accept?

Jez

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 because otherwise half the human race wouldnt have sex, which would suck

Cerberus

@Mahnax I can sort of understand that, but, again, I think they are at most in bad taste: I don't think they actually cause more real violence, not in normal people. Normal people can tell the difference between what's real and serious v. what's fake or a joke.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus You're minifying the problem. You're blaming the girls. You're blind to the reality that people shouldn't be made to have sex against their will.

Mahnax

1:09 PM

@Cerberus And yet, Mr Cerberus, most of the people in my circles (primarily girls) would disagree with you staunchly.

Jez

but honestly, it would be very interesting to completely eliminate anything that could be remotely classed as "rape" and see how most women felt. i think they'd get a bit frustrated.

Cerberus

I'm not blaming girls, because I don't think there is anything that anyone should be blamed for. Neither do my girls (haha, that sounded really bad).

@Mahnax Maybe it's North-American Puritanism!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus They can tell between what's real and what's serious. But that isn't the point. In the whole world there is a current problem of people not taking rape seriously. And ONE STEP in fixing that is to condemn rape jokes, because it's too serious a topic to joke about.

@Jez What? ridiculous

RegDwighт

I dunno. I hear a lot of jokes about the Holocaust.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No evidence.

Mahnax

1:11 PM

@Jez What?

Matt Эллен

@RegDwighт especially in the showers

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Yeah, so that will lead to a second Holocaust...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No evidence for what? That it will work? Or that there is a problem?

RegDwighт

Well, we live in a Holocaust culture. Hollywood even makes films.

Mahnax

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Seconded.

Matt Эллен

1:12 PM

I want to live in a hologram culture

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwighт And there are actually people who deny it happened.

RegDwighт

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 so? And the sky is blue.

I'm not quite sure what the point of this discussion is. We all agree that Rape Is Not A Good Thing. So. Um. What's left to say?

Jez

or maybe women would start having to do some work for once to get laid

i for one would welcome it

Cerberus

@Mahnax By the way, the scenario I'm talking about is where two people get drunk (could be boy/girl, g/g, or b/b) and they have sex, while both are laughing and touching each other during the act. Even if one or both parties have regrets the next day, I don't think it's a crime or immoral of/for one or both parties. It may be undesirable, sure, but that's a different thing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus And my scenario was that one of those parties was not too drunk to consent to sex, and the other was.

Jez

1:14 PM

@Cerberus no, no, let's ban it all. also let's ban anything on TV or in life which could corrupt children or anyone somehow

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

You seem to be denying that my scenario exists.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That jokes lead to people thinking you actually condone something they already know you disapprove of.

Mahnax

@Cerberus I know. But the conversation has shifted.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт I agree. But Mr Shiny thinks jokes might lead to rape indirectly even if the audience knows you are against it. And he also thinks it's rape when two people have sex while very drunk, even if they both laugh and touch each other during the act.

@Jez Sounds like a great plan. Did you know that Plato wanted to forbid all fiction, because it might encourage the "youth" to engage in the bad behaviour exhibited by gods and protagonists in, say, the Odyssey?

Johan Larsson

@Jez how old are you?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:17 PM

@Cerberus I didn't say that. You said that. I tried to keep you on topic for like 4 hours yesterday but you kept switching back to your hypothetical situation where neither party could consent.

Johan Larsson

nvm found in profile

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I think laughing and touching makes it non-rape under normal circumstances.

Jez

hard to have sex without touching

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, your thinking is wrong.

Cerberus

Okay, it's dissertation time.

Have fun with the rest of your discussion!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:18 PM

Consent is the basis of rape. And someone who is too drunk to remember the situation cannot consent It's plain and simple.

Cerberus

I disagree.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mahnax don't bother.

Cerberus

Consent is a vague word when you use it, and so is rape. You're using them in ways that I wouldn't, and you are reluctant to pin down exact definitions.

Bye!

poof

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No, I gave a clear definition of rape. It's sex without consent.

Cerberus

If you are vague about consent, then by extension you are vague about rape.

But I'm not here.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:22 PM

@Cerberus I think we agree on what consent might look like. We seem to disagree on whether or not a drunk person can consent. I guess you think it's okay for drunks to drive? or sign contracts?

Cerberus

Preposterous. Of course not.

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 that's a poor analogy simply because drunnk people do stupid things, even if they are sober enough to know they want sex.

you don't have to be sober enough to sign a contract to know you want sex

Cerberus

Sex ≠ driving. Don't try to introduce different subjects and weird situation. I am and always have been talking about common drunken LAT sex.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен No, if they are sober enough to know they want sex then they are consenting.

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 right but that's a different level of sober to being sober enough to sign a contract

Cerberus

1:24 PM

@MattЭллен Exactly.

Matt Эллен

contracts are complex. wanting sex is not

Cerberus

Many people get drunk because they want sex. Many people want sex when they're drunk. Get used to it.

Matt Эллен

there are sober, competent adults that aren't smart enough to understand a contract

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен yes but cerb was talking about a situation where his friend woke up at some guy's house she didn't know, in a neighbourhood she didn't recognize, and couldn't remember anything. How in the world could she have consented to sex?

@Cerberus you're not listening to me at all.

You seem to think I want to ban alcohol or something.

Mahnax

@MattЭллен Neither is walking, but many drunks have problems with that…

Matt Эллен

1:26 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 right well I don't want to get into that. I was just protesting that particular analogy.

Cerberus

As I said, there is a chance that she didn't, but in all probability, she LAT, and then I think it's her own responsibility. That's just how it normally goes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

If a girl decides to get wasted in order to go home with whoever will take her, then she is consenting to whatever she expects will happen to her.

Matt Эллен

@Mahnax right but at that point they can't want sex either

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No, "her own responsibility"... you're victim blaming. That's part of the problem.

Cerberus

No. I'm not blaming anyone.

Mahnax

1:27 PM

@MattЭллен Right! So there's a nice demarcation line.

Cerberus

There was no crime, so there is no blame.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

If a girl gets hammered because she wants to have sex with one guy and one guy only, and he isn't interested and leaves the bar, and some other guy takes her home and has sex with her, he is raping her even if she laughs and touches.

Cerberus

@Mahnax Yes, once you are unable to LAT (laugh and touch the other person), then I would say it's not OK any more.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus How do you know there was no crime? She doesn't even know!

Cerberus

I don't know.

If she was not LAT, then it was not OK.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:28 PM

@Cerberus your notion of LAT is ridiculous, btw. Try telling that to a judge. "She was laughing and touching me!"

Mahnax

@Cerberus Except that one of the things that people do most when they are very drunk is laugh and touch.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Why is it ridiculous? I think LAT is fine.

Johan Larsson

what does LAT mean other than LA Times?

Cerberus

@Mahnax Sure. So what?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The standard is not whether or not her behaviour appears consensual. The standard is whether her behaviour appears consensual AND SHE IS MENTALLY ABLE TO FORM THE CONSENT.

Matt Эллен

1:29 PM

@JohanLarsson laughing and touching

Cerberus

Have sex is also one of the things people do when they're drunk.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

apparently there is lots of laughing when cerb has sex.

3

Cerberus

@Mahnax Remember, I'm talking about LAT during the act.

@JohanLarsson Laughing and touching the other person while having sex.

Perhaps I should say LATDS, "laughing and touching during sex".

Or does that sound like an STD?

Matt Эллен

the 3DS for adults

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus "during" is already too late. You need consent before you begin.

Cerberus

1:30 PM

Or was that a joke, and am I now immoral?

Mahnax

Well I need to leave because it's time for school soon and I've been in here instead of studying for my exam today. But I will state that I agree with Mr. Shiny on almost all (if not all) points in this discussion.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Okay, then let's make it "laughing and talking as the sex begins and during", so LATASB, "as sex begins".

leaf in the wind

Bai.

CU

1:31 PM

@Cerberus and I am telling you that it is meaningless if she is too drunk to consent. She needs to consent BEFORE she gets that drunk.

Matt Эллен

aren't you meant to be writing some long winded essay @Cerb?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I will allow a wide range of possible forms of consent, but it must happen before getting drunk otherwise it is rape.

Johan Larsson

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 this sounds really strange to me

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Fine, as long as you know my opinion is entirely confined to the LATASB scenario. Everything I say is about that (besides the whole joke issue).

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JohanLarsson Rape is sex without consent. People who get drunk enough can no longer form consent in a useful way.

Cerberus

1:33 PM

@MattЭллен Correcting it...yes. I am.

@JohanLarsson I agree.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Your LATASB scenario only works if the laugher-and-toucher is not drunk or did not previously consent to having sex while drunk.

Matt Эллен

ah! multitasking you are. Drunk you must not be. Sex you can consent to.

Johan Larsson

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I have had sex while drunk, sometimes regretted it the day after but never thought I was raped.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I disagree. Just don't put words in my my mouth and try to make me condone actual rape. I only allow LATASB drunken sex.

Matt Эллен

@JohanLarsson ah, no, Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 means "too drunk to be able to consent" not just drunk.

Cerberus

1:35 PM

@JohanLarsson Exactly.

Johan Larsson

@MattЭллен ok I have been actively not following this discussion until now :D

Cerberus

@MattЭллен But he has a weird notion of consent that shouldn't be applied to sex.

"Laughing and touching the other person as sex begins and after", that counts as making it morally OK to me.

Even if it may still be undesirable.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus See? see? This is exactly the rape culture I am talking about. You are saying it's okay for a woman to get raped because she was really drunk and acted like she wanted it. It is not okay. She was not in control. She has the right to decide if she wants to have sex or not.

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus yeah I don't see a problem with that at all. What is the alternative? A signed contract with two witnesses?

Cerberus

Certainly not at all worthy of the terrible label "rape".

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:37 PM

You are part of the problem Cerb.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 LATASB is OK, it isn't rape, and that's the last thing I will say about it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus it is not okay. That is not a sufficient standard for okay. Sorry to disappoint you.

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson I don't get what he things is a realistic alternative either.

Matt Эллен

IMO if someone is in a happy state and they are touching you, but they say things like "hey, where are we?" and "what are you doing?" despite potentially reciprocating your kisses, then they are too drunk.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен exactly.

Johan Larsson

1:38 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I'm starting to think I'm part of the problem also, don't understand much here.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The "too drunk" line is hard to define, but it has a point.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You're part of a problem of Puritanism and thought police.

@JohanLarsson Perhaps it is a North-American thing: I really don't get it either.

But I'm not here! BAI

Matt Эллен

CU

laughs and touches @Cerb

3

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I am not trying to ban sex, or drinking, or drinking and sex. I am trying to protect people's right to self-agency. See the difference? Didn't I say there are ways that someone might consent to sex while wasted? But you refuse to listen to that.

@JohanLarsson Do you agree that when people reach a certain level of drunkenness they are no longer in control of their decision-making?

Johan Larsson

I think it is very simple, the word no should be respected at all times

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yes true

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:40 PM

Do you agree that if you have sex with someone who doesn't want you to have sex with them then you are raping them?

And if someone is too drunk to decide to have sex, and you have sex with them anyway, how does it not follow that it is rape?

Anyway I really have to leave now. bye.

Matt Эллен

CU

Johan Larsson

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 here it starts to get a bit blurry

Men have hardware protection for that :D

Matt Эллен

:D pretty damn effective, too

Johan Larsson

Assuming straight

Matt Эллен

true

KitFox

1:44 PM

@MattЭллен Yay!

Matt Эллен

@KitFox yeah! I'm pretty excited. I'm a tiny bit disappointed that it's set to arrive 3 days after the next hack day

but that's not why I bought it

Johan Larsson

@MattЭллен the technical term for it in Swedish is 'vinballe'

Matt Эллен

what does that literally translate to in English?

We call it "brewer's droop"

or, more medically, erectile dysfunction

Johan Larsson

vinballe means wine dick

Matt Эллен

ah! I did guess that, but it seemed too French :D

Johan Larsson

1:56 PM

haha there are probably variations

tchrist

@JohanLarsson That’s “whisky dick” in English. Well, or Scottish.

Johan Larsson

gtg to the horses

Matt Эллен

have a good ride! or bet!

user58869

2:33 PM

I can imagine that this is not the right place to be asking this, but... Is there anyone here from brazil or who knows what the abbreviation of the Brazilian monetary unit "centavos" is? for example, 1 pence in British currency can be shortened to 1p what would you shorten 1 centavos to?

Cerberus

2:52 PM

> The monetary unit used in Mexico is the Peso. The international abbreviation is $ MXN. The peso is subdivided into 100 centavos, represented by '¢'.

user58869

@Cerberus Thanks!!

Cerberus

This is all I can find, alas.

user58869

thank you so much, I tried to find it, but I couldn't

Cerberus

Since the Brazilian Real also uses a kind of dollar sign, they probably use something like the Mexican/American abbreviation for cent, but you can't be 100 % sure.

@axrwkr Wait, what I quoted was Mexican, right?

It could be with two vertical bars instead of one, since the Brazilian Real is normally a dollar sign $ but with two bars.

user58869

@Cerberus yes... but I am hoping that a centavos in mexico is treated in a similar way to a centavos in brazil

user58869

2:55 PM

hmmm

Cerberus

It is possible.

But I'd just stay safe and write R$0.10, if I were you.

user58869

I know someone from brazil, I'll ask him when I see him

user58869

well I am going to use R$1.0 in most cases

user58869

but I need to be able to use the minor unit

user58869

so I will use ¢ for now and check it later

Cerberus

2:56 PM

OK good luck!

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus how's the editing?

Cerberus

You could ask @OtavioMacedo, he's Brazilian: what's the common abbreviation for the Brazilian centavo? Is it ¢? @axrwkr would like to know.

@MattЭллен Ehh I was just returning to it!

Matt Эллен

:D

Cerberus

Thanks for disciplining me.

Matt Эллен

sure. sure

Cerberus

2:57 PM

disappears

Matt Эллен

lol. That's not discipline. that was curiosity!

Cerberus

Right, right.

poof

Jez

3:11 PM

hey, does this sound like acceptable elision to you? "The default Tuple class's items aren't mutable, for (in my opinion) no good reason, so here's one whose are."

Matt Эллен

@Mitch I've tried to mention you in the blog chatroom

but the system won't let me invite you

@Jez depends on the tone you want to take. if you remove IMO then people will treat your words as closer to fact and some people will think you're very very wrong.

if you leave it in, then they might not get so upset

of course if you meant a different elision then yes it must be because I can't pick up on it :D

aedia λ

3:27 PM

Dialect survey maps!

6

Matt Эллен

"The devil is beating his wife"? How does that relate to rain?

aedia λ

Some of these are things I never realized there was such a clear divide on, like "scrap paper", "kitty-corner", or "pecan".

@MattЭллен I have no idea about that one

Maybe like how people say the gods are bowling when it's thunderstorming?

Matt Эллен

but I can make sense of that. bowling and thunder make comparable noises.

"The devil is beating his wife" doesn't make me thing of rain when it's sunny

maybe because the devil is happy and his wife is sad?

aedia λ

The rainbow is for the peace after the domestic abuse?

Matt Эллен

:D

aedia λ

3:40 PM

I would have answered that I didn't have a word for it on that one, because "sunshower" doesn't come readily to mind compared with "Hey, the sun's out and it's raining"

There are others where I'm shocked everyone doesn't say it my way, like #27, syrup

Mahnax

Do you say see-rup or surrup?

aedia λ

I say [i] "sear-up" but I guess only a small bit of the east coast is with me

Matt Эллен

I go with the green

/ˈsɪrəp/

same as stirrup

Mahnax

Same here.

Jez

how do you pronounce "cretin"?

I pronounce it like "retina" without the a and with a c

and the "t" isn't glottalized

but americans apparently tend to say "cree-t'n"

which sounds mad to me

also, if you pronounce it that way, how do you pronounce the idea of a person who comes from Crete? :-)

Matt Эллен

3:45 PM

/ˈkrɛtɪn/

aedia λ

/krɛʔtn/ I think

Jez

why do you skip the "i" vowel? you don't for "tin", do ya?

aedia λ

It matches how I say retina, except that has another syllable at the end, /rɜʔna/ I think. I shouldn't have left the t in, I use a glottal stop in the middle of cretin and retina

Jez

@aediaλ can't link to any specific map

but, "the 'c' in grocery?"

"groshury"?

@aediaλ ah well. i don't.

tin, cretin, retina

same "tin" sound

Matt Эллен

Bai!

aedia λ

3:58 PM

@Jez My pronunciation is more like the BrE pronunciation here than the AmE one they give, except I glottalize the t. I recognize the AmE pronunciation but I don't think I ever say it

@Jez I'm surprised so much of the US says it that way because I don't hear it much, but again another case where the midatlantic/northeast east coast isolated me with other people who say it my way

Johan Larsson

@MattЭллен or just cleaning poo :D

aedia λ

@MattЭллен Later, alligator!

TRiG

5:56 PM

These linguistic maps of America are challenging some of my assumptions.

Matt Эллен

yeah. they're pretty interesting. we were discussing them before I left

have you ever heard "The devil is beating his wife" to mean rain when it's sunny? It's a first for me

TRiG

@MattЭллен New to me, too.

Matt Эллен

@TRiG which ones particularly piqued your interest?

TRiG

@MattЭллен I thought sneakers was the American term for runners. Apparently not: it's only for parts of the States.

6

Q: Footwear: Runners. Sneakers. Trainers

There's a type of shoe which I, being Irish, would call runners. They're comfortable for running or walking in. The British call them trainers, probably because they can be used for sports or training. The Americans, meanwhile, call them sneakers, presumably because, being soft-soled, they're s...

Matt Эллен

@TRiG that is surprising

tennis shoes!

TRiG

6:08 PM

Also I knew you said traffic circle for roundabout. But apparently some of ye do say roundabout. And others say rotary (?!).

Matt Эллен

them?

I R British

TRiG

@MattЭллен Ah. Sorry.

Matt Эллен

no worries :D

TRiG

What's your word for the "sweetened carbonated beverage"?

Matt Эллен

soft drink. I don't normally differentiate between carbonated and not

TRiG

6:13 PM

@MattЭллен The standard word here is mineral (it's also been adopted into Irish). This isn't slang: it's used, for example, in the automated announcements on trains: "There will be a trolley service to your seat, serving tea, coffee, minerals, and snacks."

minairaí, I think, in Irish. (The announcement on trains is, of course, bilingual.)

Matt Эллен

interesting! I would assume it was just water

TRiG

But with my English parentage, I say fizzy drink.

Matt Эллен

ah! yes. I should have thought of that.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I have trapped Mitch in the blog room, @Matt

Matt Эллен

yay

I cannae stay. I must away.

TRiG

6:19 PM

@MattЭллен See you!

RegDwighт

0

A: How did “equivocal” come to mean what it means?

The Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology: Equivocal: nominal only; capable of twofold interpretation XVII; of doubtful genuineness, questionable XVIII. Equivocation: ambiguous use of words XIV; use of words in a double sense in order to mislead. So you are using equivocal words to hide what y...

WUT

> E.g. the word bad has an original meaning of "effeminate man/hermaphrodite". Bad could be used as code to alert others of their sexuality without causing alarm.

You know I'm bad, I'm bad, come on, you know it (bad, bad, really, really bad).

Cerberus

6:49 PM

@JohnLawler: I believe this is historically incorrect, isn't it? You suggest that this "bless" was originally part of a phrase "may...bless", which I believe is misleading. As Nohat commented: It is subjunctive, and there is no “may” which has been removed—it is simply a fixed idiom that comes from a time when the subjunctive could be freely used this way. – nohat♦ ↵ Aug 13 '10 at 19:18 — Cerberus 2 mins ago

TRiG

Let's give my answers:
1. Caramel: three syllables, of course.
2. Been: same vowel as *see*.
3. First syllable of *Bowie knife*: no idea; would guess rhyming with *so*.
4. Crayon: two syllables: *cray-on*.
5. Lawyer: *loy-er*.
6. Coleslaw: vile stuff, which I've never heard abbreviated; nor would I have guessed the meaning of *slaw*.
7. You plural: *ye*, of course, or just *you*.
8. Mayonnaise: three syllables: *may-on-aze*.
9. Pajamas: the second vowel rhymes with the first in *father*.
10. Pecan: haven't a clue; I'd guess *pe-can*, with a short *e*.

aedia λ

@TRiG I say traffic circle, but also rotary, because some of them are labeled rotary, depending on what state I visit.

I think they might all be rotaries in Massachusetts, like this rotary at the bottom part of Cape Cod

TRiG

@aediaλ Less complicated than the magic roundabout.

swindonweb.com/…

aedia λ

Oh dear. That sounds terrifying.

TRiG

@aediaλ Well, I don't drive. I did, though, once spend half an hour amusing myself by standing on top of l'Arc de Triomphe and watching the traffic. That was fun. I've never been to Swindon, though.

aedia λ

7:04 PM

The new thing around where I live now seems to be to put the traffic circles in sequence, so you constantly have to read the sign about what lane to be in while getting through a series of three to five circles. Still sounds better than that roundabout though!

RegDwighт

8:15 PM

@Cerberus oh-oh-oh, you sure are one troublemaker.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Tell that to Lawler and Nohat. I'm not here, I'm correcting the most boring dissertation ever to have walked this earth. And it doesn't even have feet, can you believe it!?

RegDwighт

8:33 PM

@Cerberus why are you correcting it, then? It is one of a kind! Leave it alone!

You hear me? Stop laughing and touching that dissertation!

Cerberus

@RegDwighт But I have to!

I agreed to do it, and I'm helping my friend.

And I get paid.

RegDwighт

That's rapist talk.

Cerberus

What isn't?