Electrical Engineering

Phil Frost

00:01

i am

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost Yo,

coding_corgi

00:17

@PhilFrost Have you ever used AVR?

Phil Frost

yes

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost Do you use AVR a lot?

Phil Frost

when i'm working on an AVR project, yes.

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost Do you use AVR C/C++?

Phil Frost

do you have a question?

maybe you should just ask your question

either i'll know the answer and i'll answer it, or I won't, and someone else might read it later.

coding_corgi

00:20

@PhilFrost How do YOU read analog signals? I am new to AVR, and I have tried a lot, but I can't seem to find a working ADC reading program for my temp. sensor.

Phil Frost

i read the datasheet

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost They have code included for you in the datasheets?

Phil Frost

well, they don't serve it to you on a silver platter, but they do tell you exactly what registers to set to what.

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost Hmmm... I am really terrible at EE, so do I look at the ADC section of a complete datasheet? What should I look for?

Phil Frost

I'd start with the section on the ADC

if that references something you don't understand, then I'd find the section for that thing and read it

coding_corgi

00:23

@PhilFrost What should I look for in that section?

Phil Frost

I suppose you look for the way to enable the functionality you desire.

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost ?

Phil Frost

? what?

if you want the AVR to make waffles, then you look for the part that says "to enable the waffle maker, write XXX to register XXX" or such.

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost I want to read analog signals, what part of the ADC section of the datasheet will tell me do so & so

Phil Frost

the whole part. The ADC is all about reading analog signals.

coding_corgi

00:29

@PhilFrost I found how to turn ADC on, i think:

The ADC is
enabled by setting the ADC Enable bit, ADEN in ADCSRA

Found something else too:

Starting a Conversion
A single conversion is started by disabling the Power Reduction ADC bit, PRADC, in ”Minimizing Power Consump-
tion” on page 41 by writing a logical zero to it and writing a logical one to the ADC Start Conversion bit, ADSC. This
bit stays high as long as the conversion is in progress and will be cleared by hardware when the conversion is com-
pleted. If a different data channel is selected while a conversion is in progress, the ADC will finish the current
conversion before performing the channel change.

Phil Frost

yes, that sounds like the right track.

there are also some configuration registers that configure the various features of the ADC. For example, you can select the input, you can select the reference voltage, you can have an interrupt after the conversion or not, etc.

It's all in the datasheet.

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost what does 'interrupt' mean?

Phil Frost

00:44

an interrupt is a mechanism CPUs (including the AVR, and your PC) have to interrupt the currently executing program because something happened. Then, an interrupt service routine (ISR) or sometimes called "interrupt handler" does something with the interrupt and returns control to whatever was happening before the interrupt.

so you can say in your program "start an ADC sample and let me know when it's done". You then go on doing other stuff. When the ADC is done, an interrupt is triggered, and you implement an ISR to do whatever you want with that sample.

Interrupt

In systems programming, an interrupt is a signal to the processor emitted by hardware or software indicating an event that needs immediate attention. An interrupt alerts the processor to a high-priority condition requiring the interruption of the current code the processor is executing, the current thread. The processor responds by suspending its current activities, saving its state, and executing a small program called an interrupt handler (or interrupt service routine, ISR) to deal with the event. This interruption is temporary, and after the interrupt handler finishes, the processor...

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost Ok, so say the AVR pancake maker was currently cooking a pancake, and say when one side was done, that's ab interrupt and the pancake maker flips the pancake?

Phil Frost

I guess I should have just linked.

yes

it lets you respond to events as they happen, instead of being busy polling to see if they happened.

it becomes important if you need the AVR to be responsive all the time, or if you want to put it in power save mode as much as possible.

you can also generate interrupts when the pins change, or when timers expire, etc.

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost ok, so I need to setup an interrupt,

Phil Frost

no, you don't need to. You can just poll for completion.

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost poll for completion?

Phil Frost

00:49

I think somewhere there's a bit that says "i'm done". So instead of waiting for the interrupt, you just enter a loop that keeps checking that until it's done.

There's also "free running mode" where it just keeps doing samples and storing the result in a register. Maybe you just check that when it's convenient for your program.

maybe you just loop forever, doing something on whatever the most recent sample happened to be.

while (true) { set_led_brightness( last_adc_reading) } // for example

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost ok, yeah, that sortve looks like what i was trying to do,

@PhilFrost So readings are 0 - 1023 right?

Phil Frost

what does the datasheet say?

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost I keep seeing internal reference 1.1V

Phil Frost

the ADC reading indicates the measured voltage relative to some other reference. The AVR has an internal 1.1V reference you can use, or you can select a handful of other references.

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost ok

Phil Frost

01:45

@W5VO maybe you can help me hack an HF amplifier.

W5VO

@PhilFrost maybe.... what's up?

Phil Frost

so, i got this 20W HF amplifier kit at dayton: http://www.tapr.org/kits_pw.html

Unfortunately, I neglected to consider how I'd be receiving when I have it hooked up.

So I guess I need to add something to bypass it when receiving, but being rather new to RF electronics, I'd rather not smoke the amplifier just yet

I'm trying to understand how my transceiver works, thinking I can do something similar: electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/70075/…

coding_corgi

02:06

@W5VO What does this mean:

This edit will be visible only to you until it is peer reviewed.

?

Phil Frost

it means it's in a review queue, and someone will review it

MLM

Alright, I am getting "Incompatible IOB's are locked to the same bank" which I know means that there is different i/o standards in that bank. (pastebin.com/vqFuuqwS) The pins I set iostandard directly are on bank 1 and the errors I get are locked for mclk (bank 0) and LEDs<7> (bank 3).

I am using a spartan 3e board and have no idea what is the culprit

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost A moderator?

Phil Frost

@coding_corgi people with more rep

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost Than me? Or past a certain limit like 2K or something

Phil Frost

02:20

@coding_corgi electronics.stackexchange.com/privileges

specifically i think electronics.stackexchange.com/privileges/edit

coding_corgi

@PhilFrost Thanks

@PhilFrost Saw that, thank though

@MLM You might just be working all night on that...

MLM

@coding_corgi that's fine...

coding_corgi

@MLM Because Geeks == owls + something with sugar that can keep them awake

Anindo Ghosh

03:40

@vvavepacket Typical rechargable batteries go bad if left uncharged for very long. BAD idea.

W5VO

03:59

@PhilFrost Considering that it's 20W, you might look at a "RF Relay" of some sort to switch the antenna between the amp output and the receiver. Depending on what your radio looks like, you may end up needing a DPST or a SPDT relay. And from looking at the amplifier circuit, you probably need to disable the amplifier when in receive.

The Photon

04:14

@MLM Are you sure it's okay to name the net in lower case ('mclk') in the constraints file, but uppercase ('MCLK') in the hdl, like your comment suggests you're doing? I'm used to using the exact same names in both cases, but it's possible that the tools aren't case-sensitive.

@MLM Another thing, if you call the net "LEDs<7>" in the constraints, I'm pretty sure it should be "LEDs[7]" in the HDL. How does the tool know to connect the net LD7 from HDL to LEDs<7> in constraints?

jippie

05:49

good morning

angelatlarge

Hallo

jippie

did I miss anything good?

abdullah kahraman

Morning!

jippie

morning

user61389

06:09

Morning

user61389

Arduino proposal

abdullah kahraman

@CamilStaps Again?

user61389

Yep...

W5VO

@CamilStaps Awesome!!! Another round of soul crushing it is!

user61389

:)

abdullah kahraman

06:12

I am so tired of this lol

user61389

Also the typo in the description, makes me very very sad.

abdullah kahraman

I have an exam today, and I am just starting studying, I have 2 hours to study, let me make coffee!

@CamilStaps Oh, shit, that is sad.

user61389

@abdullahkahraman good luck :)

angelatlarge

I have an arweeno question: what was it clocked at 16mhz instead of 20?

I also have a dumb-ass math question, if anyone is willing to engage with an idiot (=me) for a moment on a subject I know next to nothing about.

user61389

Sorry, I'm out. Bye!

angelatlarge

06:19

That's what happens when I say "math", usually

@CamilStaps Bye

abdullah kahraman

@CamilStaps Bye!

@angelatlarge I don't believe you

angelatlarge

@abdullahkahraman You saw it with your own eyes!

@abdullahkahraman Usually they say "sorry, I can't, I gotta wash my fish" or something more like that.

abdullah kahraman

@angelatlarge lol, fire it up, I am happy with maths

angelatlarge

@abdullahkahraman It is something quite silly, I think, but let me try to type it up in a way that makes sense in two sentences. Gimme a sec.

abdullah kahraman

@angelatlarge OK..

angelatlarge

06:31

@abdullahkahraman Ok, I think I am doing something very simple in an ass-backwards way. Here it is:

Say you need to decide between going to 3 different restaurants,
and you want to express this as a set of probabilities that add up to one.
What you have is the distance between you and the restaurants
(all less than one mile/km), and you want the closer restaurant to be more likely.

So, for instance, your restaurant distances could be 0.5, 0.2, and 0.1

And you want the probability of going to a particular restaurant to be inversely proportional to the distance it is from you.

So going to 0.1 restaurant is twice as likely as 0.2 restaurant.

Does this make any sense so far?

abdullah kahraman

@angelatlarge OK then.

You have to do this:

DistanceFirst * (1/x) + DistanceSecond * (1/x) + DistanceThird * (1/x) = 1

angelatlarge

What's x?

abdullah kahraman

@angelatlarge Nah, ignore that, I think this is wrong.

angelatlarge

@abdullahkahraman Damn. Looked simpler than what I was doing.

Anyway, here's what I do (the ass backwards part):

Let `d1`, `d2`, `d3` be the restaurant distances.
Let `k` be the sum of all distances to all restaurants, so `k = d1+d2+d2`
Compute scaled distance `m` for each restaurant such that `m1=d1/k`
Now `m1+m2+m3` = 1, but if you use these for probabilies, you get inverse:
the closest restaurant is least likely.
So you turn these into "undistances" `j` where `j1=1-m1`, etc.
You add these up to `f` where `f=j1+j2+j3`
And then you get your probabilities `p` where `p1=j1/f`

That seems waaaaay to long for the problem, no?

But I think you are onto something.... It should be x*(1/d1) + x*(1/d2) + x*(1/d3) = 1, and solve for x, right?

abdullah kahraman

@angelatlarge Yeah, that should be it.

@angelatlarge Then, x*(1/d1) will give you the probability for d1.

angelatlarge

06:39

yeah, exactly...

abdullah kahraman

@angelatlarge You are not bad at maths at all.

angelatlarge

@abdullahkahraman Though in the end, the math might work out to be just as cumbersome...

@abdullahkahraman Thanks, but I see a lot of room for improvement :)

jippie

@abdullahkahraman I thought you had more along the lines of a year to study, rather than only two hours.

abdullah kahraman

@jippie haha, I am a lazy student. It has been 1 semester, not 1 year!

Anindo Ghosh

09:14

@angelatlarge Reason for the design being clocked at 16 instead of 20 MHz: One power source option is USB. With diode (or MOSFET) drop, and typical USB voltage variances, this could drop below what the AVR MCUs are rated for, for 20 MHz operation. The clock rating varies with the Vcc.

angelatlarge

Thank you, nice answer. Yes, I remember the "do you feel lucky" vcc vs mhz graphic.

Anindo Ghosh

@angelatlarge For the math problem: Look up network packet cost-of-transmission algorithms. The old IPv4 or quite possibly the classic IP (1.0?) RFCs documented a very low overhead math for almost exactly what you are doing. Instead of distances, you do convenience computation: Greater the distance, lower the convenience. IIRC one of the 1980s RFCs actually gave an algo that needed 4n bytes and 2n+1 efficiency on n different routes.

@angelatlarge A much more advanced version of this algorithm is applied in the OSPF protocol, as well. OSPF = Open Shortest Path First. What they changed for OSPF was a unary decision instead of a probability matrix output.

The prob-matrix was preferred in the early algos because they were thinking of ways to design transmission such that a nuclear incident that takes out huge amounts of the ARPANET would still cause minimal transport packet hiccup, by sending different packets by different routes. That way, only the packets on the compromised paths would need retransmission, so a sliding window would not have to flush and re-form at the receiving end.

END-OF-HISTORY-LECTURE.

jippie

10:06

@AnindoGhosh @angelatlarge older Arduino's used AVR's that had a max. 16MHz clock and to prevent compatibility issues, this clock speed was kept at 16MHz for newer boards.

@AnindoGhosh We are at least at OSPF2 and I'm not sure what if it is still used on large scale. Internet routing is based on BGP (border gateway protocol). There are solutions that don't require layer 3 devices for internal networks (routing), which is good for speed / latency.

Anindo Ghosh

13:15

@jippie There's a post on the official forum addressing why they never changed the clock speed - and they say could have easily done so with newer boards, since the bootstrap code's F_CPU define could be separately configured for each board, just as other constants are defined, but they did not go to 20 because many USB ports deliver only around 4.75 Volts. I'll find you a link when I get home.

@jippie Yup, I wasn't implying any adherence to OSPF (or BGP or EIGRP), I was pointing out that legacy OSPF documentation already contains a shortest path algorithm.

@jippie So the algorithm remains valid, whether the protocol itself is used today or not, right? In fact, I would pay more attention to old algorithms than new ones, because back in the 80s / 90s the hardware capability of routers was far worse than today, so the algo should have been more efficient :-)

jippie

@AnindoGhosh new algorithms do solve todays issues better than the old ones. Check for example why we don't use RIP(2) anymore in favour of eg. OSPF.

Anindo Ghosh

@jippie The problem being solved in this case was how to arrive at a best guess of a correct color band (I'm trying to mind-read @angelatlarge here) from multiple options, by probabilistic estimation across multiple path distances from an ideal color locus.

@jippie Nothing to do with actual network routing at all. Just alternative applications of old algorithms.

Hey @jippie since you're online, I want to tap your experience on something: Have you tried any Arduino (lite) bootloaders on an ATTiny85 yet? I have about 10 ATTiny85 DIP ICs sitting here, and I want to set up something quick and dirty with them, without bothering with timer setup code etc.

It's going to be just an experiment, I don't need much performance, and it'll get scrapped after I'm done, so I don't want to spend time with lots of coding.

oh, and I want to use the internal RCO, no xtal

yogece

13:50

@AnindoGhosh hi sir

jippie

14:06

@AnindoGhosh oh ...

Anindo Ghosh

@yogece hi

jippie

@AnindoGhosh bootloader on a tiny?

Anindo Ghosh

@jippie basically I want to set the tiny up as an ersatz 'duino, yes

jippie

You can program tiny's from Arduino, but I never bothered to figure out how that works.

One of the reasons is that "they" don't telly you which functions/libraries are supported, but they do mention that some don't work.

@AnindoGhosh I've seen howto's that make the IDE able to select an ATtiny as target, but as I mentioned, never tried that.

Anindo Ghosh

@jippie Well, I'm now adding it to my task queue. I'll need to set up the minimum needed parts on a breadboard, of course... Or make me a perfboard programmer with a ZIF socket, maybe

jippie

14:11

for 10 pcs?

yogece

@AnindoGhosh thank you for responding me. i have arduino uno board and ATmega 8 controller.when i googled for using arduino as a programming AVR chips but that doesnt work.can you suggest me something

Anindo Ghosh

@jippie For 3 pcs at a time: I have a 24-pin ZIF

@yogece @jippie and I are discussing almost exactly the same thing.

yogece

@AnindoGhosh @jippie i too join

jippie

@AnindoGhosh Not sure if timing will disappoint you. My zero crossing experience showed me that the RC oscillator drifts a lot an it drifts quickly, unless you have a special programmer

Anindo Ghosh

@jippie Hmm... Interesting. Then perhaps I should make little tinyduino veroboard setups with a 10 MHz xtal?

jippie

14:16

@AnindoGhosh then you have to set the fuses first to use the external clock, which requires a programmer

yogece

@AnindoGhosh @jippie :(

Anindo Ghosh

@jippie So this is getting more messy... I'll need to make a HVProg as well. The project just moved lower on my priority list :-)

@yogece ??

yogece

@AnindoGhosh i followd instructables.com/id/Turn-Your-Arduino-Into-an-ISP/step4/…

jippie

@yogece I'm sure I've written an answer on programming AVR's

Anindo Ghosh

@yogece And it worked? Or it did not work?

jippie

14:20

14

A: AVR - How to program an AVR chip in Linux

I don't have the time for a full explanation, but I can give you cookbook-style the commands I use on my Linux box to program AVRs: Preparations On Ubuntu, make sure several required packages are installed: sudo apt-get install avr-libc arvdude binutils-avr gcc-avr srecord optionally throw in ...

oh wait, that was about using linux

@AnindoGhosh you can program fuses with a ICSP as long as you don't mess up the fuses and brick the controller with wrong clock/reset/protect settings

yogece

@AnindoGhosh it didnt work

Anindo Ghosh

@jippie Well, I have a dozen ATTiny ICs, so I can deal with bricked ones later, once I get the process ironed out.

@yogece What failed?

yogece

@AnindoGhosh program wasn't successfully loaded into the chip

Anindo Ghosh

@yogece Yeah well, I'm expecting that to happen to me too a few times. :-)

jippie

@AnindoGhosh coming to think of it, the programmer does the clocking.

but you want a way to verify proper working after programming

Anindo Ghosh

14:28

@jippie Therefore I don't need an xosc for setting it up? I can verify with a blinkenlight sketch, I guess?

jippie

i guess so

your programmer can only receive from one controller

whazzup @yogece?

yogece

@AnindoGhosh but some where i found they used an 8M XTAL with the chip to be programmed

Anindo Ghosh

@yogece I kind of thought I'd need a Xtal as well. Maybe I do, maybe I don't. I'll only know after bricking a couple of ICs ;-)

jippie

@AnindoGhosh no the programmer supplies scl (serial clock), so you'll be fine.

Anindo Ghosh

@jippie Good. Task upgraded in sequence again ;-)

@jippie Programmer = another 'duino, or a FTDI programmer, or something else?

yogece

14:32

@AnindoGhosh @jippie i got XTAL now let me try.

jippie

@AnindoGhosh anything that does ICSP

Anindo Ghosh

@jippie I have an FTDI device, an USBASP device, and many many different 'duinos. So the world is my oyster :-)

@jippie Yeah well I'll have to check that won't I!

jippie

duino's do

I have the impression most lean/mean/cheap programmers do :o)

yogece

@AnindoGhosh @jippie plz look @hw2sw.com/2011/09/14/…

Anindo Ghosh

@yogece Excellent, that should work.

yogece

14:40

@AnindoGhosh going to try right now

abdullah kahraman

14:59

Hello all!

I nailed the exam ;)

yogece

@abdullahkahraman wht?

abdullah kahraman

@yogece ab kesei ho?

yogece

@abdullahkahraman english

abdullah kahraman

@yogece tik hu, ab kesei ho?

@yogece आप कैसे हैं?

coding_corgi

♦♦♦Yo yo yo!♦♦♦

abdullah kahraman

15:02

@coding_corgi y0

coding_corgi

@abdullahkahraman Yo!

The Photon

@abdullahkahraman Now you are making me laugh

abdullah kahraman

@ThePhoton I don't get how these people read their alphabet, it look so small and so detailed that I have to lean to the screen!

@AnindoGhosh आप क्या सोचते हैं?

Anindo Ghosh

@abdullahkahraman Congratulations!

yogece

@abdullahkahraman zoom it

abdullah kahraman

15:06

@yogece I mean the same goes for arabic, too..

coding_corgi

@yogece Ctrl + scroll or ++ or something like that....

abdullah kahraman

كيف حالك؟

I know how to read arabic, but I have to lean towards screen to read this.

Anindo Ghosh

@abdullahkahraman :-) Unfortunately I read Hindi much slower than I read English.

yogece

@abdullahkahraman i m fine thanks(i used google translator)

abdullah kahraman

@yogece Oh, you don't know hindi?

I am guessing that there are some special fonts that will render these alphabets better

coding_corgi

15:27

Sniffle sniffle, everyone say goodbye to BatchPCB, OSH Park is now taking over, I seems just so sad... I never even used BatchPCB, but OSH Park seems like a cheap, alternative, PCB service... (here is the article: sparkfun.com/news/1138)

abdullah kahraman

@coding_corgi OSH Park has a good website.

coding_corgi

@abdullahkahraman A purple boards! (Wish they had different colors though...)

abdullah kahraman

@coding_corgi Purple look OK. But it is US$5 for 3 copies of a 1 square inch board.

No need to, when you have iTeadStudio

jippie

15:58

"Plated slots aren’t supported." what does that mean?

plated slots

abdullah kahraman

@jippie A slot is a non-circular drill. They do not plate them they say.

jippie

@abdullahkahraman still puzzled

uhhuh

abdullah kahraman

@jippie You see this rectangular cut-out, on the right? It is called a slot.

jippie

how can you plate a hole?

how can you plate something that isn't there?

abdullah kahraman

@jippie You plate the inner sides.

jippie

16:06

@abdullahkahraman like with via's?

abdullah kahraman

See inside of the hole? It is plated.

jippie

hmm.

i

c

abdullah kahraman

It just occured to me that if they made Bob Pease's grave like this, it would be so cool:

A tombstoned resistor :)

user61389

Hello

abdullah kahraman

@CamilStaps Hi!

coding_corgi

16:45

@CamilStaps Yo!

Yo yo yo!

user61389

Hullo

coding_corgi

@CamilStaps Whatcha doing?

user61389

Trying to setup both Node.js and apache on one server using nginx.

coding_corgi

@CamilStaps Hmmmm....

user61389

Yes, that's how I feel too.

coding_corgi

16:48

@CamilStaps Hmmmm.....

coding_corgi

17:21

it's quite in here

@angelatlarge yo

angelatlarge

@coding_corgi Hello

Anindo Ghosh

17:46

Would anyone care to make an attempt at this question, please?

1

Q: XBEE S2 RPSMA not working with batteries

I have a couple of XBEE S2 with RPSMA antenna I'm using the xbee explorer(with arduino) and XBIB development board with X-CTU on a PC. if I drive the arduino from the USB,,, it works... not really fine, but there's some data beeing sent and received. However, as soon an i move to batteries (ht...

@jippie Your answer doesn't explain the basic factor: that the voltage at the GPIOs thus becomes the power source for the microcontroller, when the normal supply at Vcc is removed.

jippie

@AnindoGhosh getting there

adding a circuit diagram

@AnindoGhosh you linked another question btw

coding_corgi

@jippie Yo

jippie

@AnindoGhosh pls feel free to recheck

1

A: Arduino: Measure external voltage

Most, if not all, input pins on AVR controllers are internally protected by clamping diodes. These diodes prevent that an input voltage can be higher than the supply voltage. It is important to realize that when an input pin does rise above the supply voltage and these diodes weren't there, the c...

done with the answer for now, going out for shopping.

coding_corgi

18:03

@jippie For what?

jippie

@AnindoGhosh It would be nice if it was possible to save an answer but not publish it until you hit another button.

user61389

18:22

Okay @PeterJ, how do you do it?

user61389

I refresh the review page every 15s and still you're faster! :)

coding_corgi

@CamilStaps Yes, I see that too,

@CamilStaps He is quite fast,

user61389

@coding_corgi I didn't know you were reviewing? :)

coding_corgi

@CamilStaps No, i edit something, 1 min later, he just edits the question, and he gets all the rep!

user61389

@coding_corgi if he does so, he can mark your suggestion as helpful or not. When he does, I think you get your rep. You do avoid trivial edits, and when you edit, you try to improve everything you see?

coding_corgi

18:30

@CamilStaps Yes

@CamilStaps Why wouldn't i?

user61389

@coding_corgi hm, okay. Do you have an example?

user61389

For the cheap 2 rep?

coding_corgi

Yes, but it just shows that he edited it, what is the secret to get rep?

user61389

@coding_corgi can you give me the link?

coding_corgi

@CamilStaps Maybe, why?

user61389

18:32

@coding_corgi perhaps I can see why you didn't get your rep

coding_corgi

@CamilStaps Oh, I got the +2...

user61389

@coding_corgi oh :)

coding_corgi

@CamilStaps Though what is the secret to getting more rep?

user61389

@coding_corgi writing answer 'n stuff.

user61389

30

Q: What is the best way to increase my reputation and privileges?

I'm not sure if this is a stupid question, but here goes anyway... I have only recently started learning PHP and Javascript and I'm reasonably proficient. One of the reasons I'm so proficient is because I LOVE Stack Overflow and find most of the solutions to my dilemmas here. But I've found tha...

discussion reputation privileges faq-proposed

coding_corgi

18:35

@CamilStaps Really? There isn't like something different?

user61389

@coding_corgi you can also ask questions... and get bounties

user61389

I'm out for a while, sorry.

rawbrawb

@coding_corgi just a note, there was an edit of yours the other day where you added in "hello" and "thanks". On SE you "thank" by upvoting and salutations are unnecessary. In fact @CamilStaps spends a lot of time removing those very same things ... ;)

coding_corgi

@CamilStaps See ya! Thanks!

@rawbrawb Ok, yes I see that, people don't like friendliness. :]

rawbrawb

@coding_corgi It's not unfriendly, it clutters things up. The idea is to have a repository of questions and answers, accumulation of knowledge not necessarily just answering peoples problems (although that can be part of it)

jippie

18:43

@coding_corgi do you get rep for an edit?

@rawbrawb until he gets his badge, then he will stop right there and then.

coding_corgi

@jippie Oh yeah, that was just me being stupid for a while

jippie

@CamilStaps notice that the poor soul is still at 153 rep after almost a year ;o)

coding_corgi

@jippie Who is a poor soul?

@jippie Do you know any tutorials on bitwise operators like << or |=, everything is so complicated with AVR C....

jippie

18:59

@coding_corgi en.wikibooks.org/wiki/C_Programming

@coding_corgi it is generic C, nothing special about AVR

angelatlarge

@coding_corgi Or sleeping with someone in charge

@coding_corgi I haven't tried it (yet) but it seems to work well in other places.

@rawbrawb Yeah, @CamilStaps Can seem a little obsessed with that, IMHO

@rawbrawb That idea seems...mmm... platonic?

@jippie Oh, really? I thought that the first Arduino was an ATmega168, didn't it run at 20mhz?

jippie

@angelatlarge Make a proper question from it and I'm happy to research an answer

angelatlarge

@jippie Meh, can't be bothered right now :) Maybe if they get the Arduino site going again... that's a great way to get EE rep, BTW. I need to get in on the ground floor of that next time.

@AnindoGhosh Are you still awake? I am trying to search for the RFC you suggested, but I am coming up with stuff like this:

ietf.org/rfc/rfc2324.txt

Can you suggest some keywords?

(BTW, I really hate that you can't copy URLs straight out of google results page. Is there are simple workaround for that?)

coding_corgi

19:25

@jippie Thanks,

@NickHalden Yo

Nick Halden

@coding_corgi hey

struggling with bitwise operators?

@angelatlarge the 168 CAN run @20, but the arduinos have always used a 16MHz afaik

coding_corgi

@NickHalden You could say that, basically I am trying to master something in C, :)

angelatlarge

@NickHalden Yeah, I was asking why 16 instead of 20. According to @AnindoGhosh it is due to the Vcc variance in USB ports which might not provide enough voltage to run at 20mhz.

Nick Halden

@angelatlarge That's a definite possibility, running at the upper-most spec'd limit for frequency stability means you would need your supply at the top of their spec as well. Perhaps arduino also considered adding support to be powered by 3.3V, though I don't believe they ever did that.

coding_corgi

@MLM Yo

Nick Halden

19:35

@coding_corgi what are you trying to master?

coding_corgi

@NickHalden Anything, I have been driving myself crazy all week, pressuring myself to at least to learn something about 'AVR C'...

rawbrawb

@angelatlarge not sure what you mean, there are so many different platonisms, perhaps you meant socratic though?

Nick Halden

@coding_corgi master the concept of pointers

jippie

@angelatlarge !? care to eggsplain?

coding_corgi

@NickHalden Sure, once I figure out what that is...

jippie

19:40

@NickHalden 20MHz is in the safe area at 4.5V or higher

and lower than 5.5

angelatlarge

@rawbrawb I meant that this is sometimes more of an ideal than reality. This is partly stackExchanges fault for not really forcing the users to consider other answers to similar questions. But I think their business model (such as it is) depends on new questions.

Nick Halden

@jippie right so if they ever wanted 3V3 support, a 20MHz crystal would not be a great piece of hardware to have on there...

im assuming 16MHz has a wider range of operating voltages?

MLM

@ThePhoton disregard that signal name comment as that is copy pasted from the board ucf. I am using: mclk: in std_logic;
LEDs: out std_logic_vector(7 downto 0);

spi_sck: out std_logic;
spi_si: in std_logic;
spi_so: out std_logic;
spi_cs: out std_logic;

sw0: in std_logic

jippie

@NickHalden yeah, but the graph in the datasheet is not very easy to read, it requires a pencil and a ruler ;o)

angelatlarge

@jippie Yeah: from what I've seen the Arduino peeps are much more likely to upvote: some of the migrated questions/answers had a +10 on them that would only get +5 max here. So rep whoring is made easier. I'll try not to miss that easy rep op-whore-tunity.

jippie

19:42

@angelatlarge and rep was transferred here?

angelatlarge

@jippie yes. The plan does depend on the Arduino site dying, but that seems to be a regular occurence, like beached whales on Nantucket.

Nick Halden

@angelatlarge op-whore-tunity... classic

jippie

@angelatlarge maybe I should hop onto the Aduino proposal then

angelatlarge

@NickHalden Thanks :)

@jippie That's what I think.

jippie

@angelatlarge on the other side I only need 400-odd rep before I retire and start enjoying a social life after EE.SE.

Nick Halden

19:45

@jippie wait wtf... there's another?

angelatlarge

@NickHalden It is like a bad rash, it never really goes away

Nick Halden

@angelatlarge yikes.

ok well i gtg peeps

ttyl

jippie

@NickHalden sure and the previous one failing probably burnt down a lot of the supporters from then, so it seems like a sound way to get rep.

coding_corgi

@NickHalden Bye!

angelatlarge

@jippie Slash and burn agriculture

@NickHalden bye!

@jippie Are you really going to retire?

coding_corgi

19:47

@angelatlarge Of course he isn't...

angelatlarge

@jippie Can you really live without your throngs of disciples (like @coding_corgi...)?

coding_corgi

:9556726

hey

jippie

@angelatlarge upvote me during the rest of the month and see what happens.

I need just over 50 rep per day.

angelatlarge

@jippie Why don't I go and upvote a whole bunch of your answers right now?

I think 30-40 should do the trick...

@jippie Let me get my mousing finger ready...

jippie

that would do the trick for a couple of hours, yes

@angelatlarge I'd say max 4 per day

angelatlarge

19:51

@jippie I see you've done some research :)

coding_corgi

@jippie You shall get downvotes! ;)

Transcript for