TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2013-04-22 (page 1 of 2)

kan

12:19 AM

@leo A work for pdftk? :)

The bookmarks part I have never done...

@leo See here

Oh looks like pdftk can inject bookmarks ... :(

leo

1:04 AM

@kan thanks man!

gekkostate

2:13 AM

Hey guys, I just had a quick question about the hyperref package. For some reason when I use it, the size of the page increases. I have tried it with another file but there is no issue there. Has anyone ever experienced this?

Stephan Lehmke

2:51 AM

@gekkostate AFAIK hyperref will set the size of the PDF page to the page size of the TeX document. So it seems the page size was "wrong" before ;-)

Bruno Le Floch

8:16 AM

Just implemented an interpreter for a subset of Forth using LaTeX3 this weekend :-). Eventually, I'm hoping to implement PostScript too.

5

Joseph Wright

@BrunoLeFloch Any chance of finishing the missing stuff in l3fp?

egreg

9:01 AM

@DavidCarlisle \newunicodechar works the same with XeLaTeX or LuaLaTeX. :)

@DavidCarlisle Not that it makes that usage of § recommendable.

Bruno Le Floch

@JosephWright The l3fp stuff requires more than just one weekend of concentration. Besides, for some obscure reason (probably on my side, as the internet is patchy here) I'm currently unable to commit, so I feel less pressed to code for LaTeX3. Also, I'm using l3fp in this Forth interpreter, and realizing what is missing (here, I need a 'mod' operation).

@JosephWright But you are right to call me on slacking away from LaTeX3 work :-).

David Carlisle

@egreg does it? That was kind of someone:-) (I'll reword a bit thanks)

Andrew Stacey

9:37 AM

I've just encountered a new sub-genre of literature: the font thriller. Rather than a traditional "whodunnit", the key question at each page turn is: "Which font will the next page be set in?" I'm dreading the denouement, I've a nasty feeling I know which font that will be in.

David Carlisle

@AndrewStacey It'll just get to the exciting bit then the author switches to \nullfont and you'll be under the delusion that the novel ended one page earlier.

Andrew Stacey

@DavidCarlisle A-ha! Thus implementing the Doctor's favourite way of reading a book. (Unfortunately, "the exciting bit" seems to need to be taken relatively in this book.)

David Carlisle

9:55 AM

Shocking!! Picture mode doesn't even get a mention.

1

Q: Critical Comparison of TikZ and PSTricks

I am interested in a critical comparison of TikZ and PSTricks. Possible fields of interest may be. Ease of programming. E.g. what fundamental programming constructs are there? Ease of learning. Are there tutorials? How long does it take to learn? How easy is it to keep up to date? Documentatio...

Dominic Michaelis

10:43 AM

hello did someone miss me

David Carlisle

@DominicMichaelis no? :-)

Dominic Michaelis

Oh :( May I ask what is the best documentclass for writing the solution of homeworks (which will be a very short document cause the problems are to easy )

Paulo Cereda

woohoo @Bruno is here!

Joseph Wright

@BrunoLeFloch :-) Much the same with me: there are many other things to think about!

David Carlisle

@DominicMichaelis well I'd always with article unless you need some extra features. (But some people like to start with a big class like memoir or koma in case they ever need a featire and it's loaded already)

Dominic Michaelis

10:52 AM

@DavidCarlisle In article the margins are very big aren't they ?

David Carlisle

@DominicMichaelis Don't think of it as big margins, think of it as comfortable text length. (But to change the margin is only a couple of setlength commands in the preamble or a single call to a thousand lines of the geometry package) so that isn't a reason to switch class.

Torbjørn T.

93

Q: Why are default LaTeX margins so big?

I've read that—unless I know a lot about typesetting—I shouldn't change the margins of a LaTeX document. The default margin size of the article class is really big and it feels like a lot of space is waste. Thanks to the geometry package, it is simple to change the margins, but I'm not sure if I ...

margins geometry

Dominic Michaelis

11:13 AM

oh thats a nice link thanks

Andrew Stacey

11:28 AM

First official tikzmark bug

1

Q: Tikzmark and french seem to conflict

I just discovered tikzmark thanks to the blog, and it sounds really promising. I downloaded the files from CTAN and put tikzlibrarytikzmark.code.tex and tikzmarklibrarylistings.code.tex in the same folder as my main .tex file. I'm trying to reproduce the first example from the manual itself, en f...

french tikzmark

Seriously, is the solution in my answer a reasonable way to get round "known unknowns" with regard to catcodes?

David Carlisle

11:45 AM

@AndrewStacey sorry didn't spot your original syntax uses optional argument. You could avoid re-scanning the argument but it probably isn't worth it.

Paulo Cereda

12:01 PM

Why is every Monday blues day? I'm listening to Charlietown Blues Radio Station with the highest possible volume. :)

percusse

12:39 PM

@AndrewStacey This is what I meant

\documentclass[french]{beamer}
\usepackage{babel}
\usepackage{tikz}
\tikzset{
    every picture/.prefix style={
        execute at begin picture=\shorthandoff{;}
    },
    a dummy key/.style={}
}
\begin{document}
\begin{frame}
Test \tikz[a dummy key={;:;;:},] \draw[->] (0,1em) to (1em,0);
\end{frame}
\end{document}

You can also turn it on again after the picture.

But I can't test it directly because I'm using CVS and it's fixed in the new version.

Paulo Cereda

1:02 PM

@percusse <3

tohecz

Hello!

kan

1:27 PM

@tohecz Hello! Welcome!

@egreg @DavidCarlisle I'd like to draw on your expertise with macros. I have to have macros that are basically similar in functions but of a large variety of names... I can illustrate this by an example:

\abg{ij}{kl}{mn} --> \alpha_{ij}\beta_{kl}\gamma_{mn}

\abd{ij}{kl}{mn} --> \alpha_{ij}\beta_{kl}\delta_{mn}

Paulo Cereda

@tohecz Hey Tom!

kan

and so on...

Is there a simpler way to accomplish this without having to brutally write all macros with \newcommands?

NLed

hey guys, can anyone tell me what is the code for this symbol (V=)

its like a V but with an equal sign going through it

kan

@NLed Did you try detexify.kirelabs.org

NLed

yep can't find it

I want to try and draw it online for better representation

topskip

1:39 PM

@NLed ... in addition to kan's answer: did you try texdoc symbols-a4.pdf

NLed

i spent an hour looking it up through a pdf file too

yes

kan

@NLed Do you know what's it used for?

NLed

it's in a journal, formal language

give me a sec

kan

Can you please post a pic so you'd have crowd sourced that work?

(I'll search for it surely... so one more person doing the work instead of just you...)

NLed

I wanted to ask it as a question but I thought I will get voted down for that

topskip

1:40 PM

@NLed don't worry about downvotes!

NLed

is there an app to share drawings online quickly ?

some website ?

kan

@NLed We are a helpful lot! We'd surely have closed it though... :P

NLed

@kan yeah haha it's not really a proper question

topskip

@NLed use detexify and make a screenshot :)

NLed

here

awwapp.com/s/64/7a/f6.html

for some reason I couldnt upload a file, it turns out I can't upload when there's text here

kan

1:42 PM

Oh, wait!

NLed

my bad

kan

I know this!

NLed

I don't even know what it means

kan

This is a not of that \model

NLed

\nmodel then ?

kan

1:43 PM

Wait, I'll try and let you know...

NLed

i've been using \models but couldn't find a not version

sure, thanks @kan

kan

@NLed try \not\model too...

NLed

undefined control sequence

kan

Wait a sec...

NLed

no it works !!

its /models

not \model

\models

Ugh !! I mean its \models and not \model

thank you so much :) \not\models does the trick

kan

1:46 PM

Yes right!

Just figured that!

NLed

Thanks alot @kan

kan

@NLed See crowdsourcing works. :)

NLed

Should have came here rather than spending an hour looking at a pdf 6am in the morning

kan

This is related to my previous query. So, I'll post an implementation...

10

A: How to make a recursive Latex macro with comma separated argument list

\documentclass{article} \newcommand{\commut}[2]{\left[{#1},{#2}\right]} \makeatletter \def\qcommut#1{\xcommut#1,\relax,} \def\xcommut#1,{\xxcommut{#1}} \def\xxcommut#1#2,{% \ifx\relax#2% #1% \expandafter\@gobbletwo \fi \xxcommut{\commut{#1}{#2}}} \begin{document} $\qcommut{1,2,3,4,5,6}$ \end...

Paulo Cereda

I have to run an experiment 5k times. Current step: 5 /sigh

kan

1:58 PM

@PauloCereda automate? :)

Paulo Cereda

@kan It is. But it's slow.

kan

@PauloCereda Oh, I see.

!!/texdef -t @gobbletwo

\@gobbletwo:
\long macro:#1#2->

Now, that's not very helpful! @DavidCarlisle Does that meant that, \@gobbletwo would eat away two arguments?

topskip

@kan yes

Silex

Hello everyone. Is it possible to declare new units for dimensions, for example: micrometers (µm/um) or lightyears (ly)?

topskip

@Silex I doubt it

Dominic Michaelis

2:02 PM

isn't it possible in siunitx ?

kan

@topskip So, how can I test this: I'd like to know \@gobbletwo{ij}{k{lm}} what the output of this will be or that am I using it correctly in the first place?

topskip

@kan there is no 'output' in TeX macros, just expansion. The expansion of your command is "nothing"

kan

@topskip OK, thanks for the correction. But, still, the question would then be: how do I know what will my macro expand to, like, is there a terminal way? :)

@topskip Thanks for telling me that, I had it right.

topskip

@kan you can do a trace on macro expansion with (IIRC) \tracingmacros=1

... and/or look at the definition of the macro.

kan

@topskip Can you illustrate how I'd do that on a terminal.

like latex "\tracingmacros=1" <filename.tex>?

        latex '\tracingmacro=1 \input learningtotracemacros.tex'

topskip

2:09 PM

@kan that's it, right

kan

@topskip Thank you. :)

percusse

@Papiro We are really not that strict on the removing Thank you rule. :) Actually we are not that strict on any rule. It's good practice to combine the removal of Thanks with some other edits such that it's not emphasized as the main reason of the edit.

tohecz

@PauloCereda Damn I said "Hello" and disappeared. I was discussing my teaching with the subject responsible, and now I'm off to go swimming and home ...

percusse

@Silex Do you have an unconventional paper size? :P Or is it just for calculations?

Paulo Cereda

@percusse I suspect he's secretly trying iTeX*

percusse

2:18 PM

@PauloCereda I'm still openly trying Python by the way. I know lots of buzzwords now. Functional, interpreted, object, method, superclass ..... bla bla.

Paulo Cereda

@percusse ooh! :)

egreg

@kan Here it is (not complete)

\def\definefoo#1#2#3{%
  \expandafter\def\csname#1#2#3\endcsname##1##2##3{%
    \csname greek#1\endcsname_{##1}%
    \csname greek#2\endcsname_{##2}%
    \csname greek#3\endcsname_{##3}}
}
\let\greeka\alpha
\let\greekb\beta
\let\greekg\gamma
\let\greekd\delta

\definefoo abg
\definefoo abd

$\abg{ij}{kl}{mn}$

$\abd{ij}{kl}{mn}$

\bye

percusse

@PauloCereda You know this is very much like asking for the piston temperature gradient during driving license exam :)

I don't know why I need to know all these stuff

gekkostate

Hey guys, I was just wondering if someone has ever experienced the following issue. I have set up margins for my document but for some reason, a portion of the document is on adhering the margins that I have set. What could be the issue?

Paulo Cereda

@percusse LOL

Andrew Stacey

2:25 PM

@percusse Won't work. There's an added wriggle due to the fact that beamer is being used here: without the fragile option on the frame then all catcodes are frozen ahead of time because the frame is read as an argument to a macro. So you can do \shorthandoff{;} but it won't have any effect on any semi-colons in that frame because by the time \shorthandoff{;} is executed those semi-colons are already active.

percusse

@AndrewStacey Hmm. I forgot the beamer detail.

Silex

@percusse It's just something I was wondering. But it would be cool to define an image width as 0.000000000000000005ly.

David Carlisle

@kan Not only does it eat them, it gobbles them.

topskip

LuaTeX warning: Misplaced \pdfrestore by (0sp, -1577334sp) WTF?

David Carlisle

@gekkostate user error?

Paulo Cereda

2:39 PM

@topskip @David is a Lua expert now. :)

topskip

@PauloCereda I know - he's probably trying to take away all my possible upvotes :)

... just before I've made it to a "trusted user" :)

!!/choose eat, continue debugging

David Carlisle

@topskip I need to rewrite tikz in lua first then I can get all the lua and all the tikz-pgf points at the same time. But I'm just waiting for @Bruno to implement lua in tex macros so I can run it all on classic tex first.

6

topskip

@psmith are you there?

!!/choose wait for psmith, continue debugging

kan

@egreg Thank you, it will be very useful beginning for me... I'll think about this stuff... I need to basically generalise this a little... Thank you for the outline. Expect questions on the main site too. :)

Paulo Cereda

@topskip: oh let me enable him. :) /runs to my other machine

!!/eightball Are you alive?

@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: it is decidedly so.

topskip

2:56 PM

!!/choose eat, continue debugging

Paulo Cereda

@topskip Psmith, the TeX bot: The great oracle says: continue debugging

CBenni

If I want to create a macro that writes \mathbb{C}, I use \ensuremath{\mathbb{C}}. However, using it like blabla \C blabla gives me "blabla Cblabla" instead of "blabla C blabla"

now it works fine if I use blabla \C{} blabla

however it doesnt if I change the macro to \ensuremath{\mathbb{C}}{}

why is that and what can I do about it?

gekkostate

@DavidCarlisle I am not sure. This is really surprising me because my LaTeX document has no errors whatsoever and yet, the margins for my Introduction (first 18 pages), are off by just a little bit and the rest of the book is fine.

David Carlisle

3:12 PM

@CBenni It's by design, The space after \C is what terminates the command name, it does not produce space in the output.

@gekkostate whenever anyone says that they did nothing different but a computer does a then b, it's always user error:-)

gekkostate

@DavidCarlisle haha, that may be true. But I don't know how to fix it :(

David Carlisle

!!/eightball is there an error in @gekkostate's code?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: it is decidedly so.

David Carlisle

@gekkostate see ^^^ that's definite proof.

gekkostate

@DavidCarlisle But according the TeXStudio, there isn't!

kan

3:17 PM

@David Does latex allow comparing input argument with something?

Like:

 \if#1={}
  \bye
 \else
  <sth>
 \fi

David Carlisle

@gekkostate Usual rules apply: delete stuff until you have a two page document with bad margin on page 1 and good on page 2, then post a question on site with the MWE:-)

gekkostate

I have tex.stackexchange.com/questions/109524/…

David Carlisle

@kan yes but not with \if \def\fooa{#1}\def\foob{testsring}\ifx\fooa\foob... will test if #1 is teststring

@gekkostate oh that one? But there you didn't mention that the tex margins changed (unless I missed it)

gekkostate

@DavidCarlisle Third update :) I only noticed it when the people from createspace pointed it out to me

David Carlisle

@gekkostate well does the posted MWE demonstrate the margin change?

kan

3:22 PM

Oh, thanks: so, am I right in saying that:
\ifx\relax#2
means that, the comparison here is between the second argument of a macro and a mysterious quantity called `\relax`. BTW, is `\relax` a short form for end of sth?

gekkostate

I have checked the MWE with the createspace interior reviewer. I will do that now.

David Carlisle

@kan \relax is a TeX primitive it is a non-expandable token defined to do nothing (except not expand)

kan

@DavidCarlisle So, what is the above line doing in your code?

10

A: How to make a recursive Latex macro with comma separated argument list

\documentclass{article} \newcommand{\commut}[2]{\left[{#1},{#2}\right]} \makeatletter \def\qcommut#1{\xcommut#1,\relax,} \def\xcommut#1,{\xxcommut{#1}} \def\xxcommut#1#2,{% \ifx\relax#2% #1% \expandafter\@gobbletwo \fi \xxcommut{\commut{#1}{#2}}} \begin{document} $\qcommut{1,2,3,4,5,6}$ \end...

David Carlisle

@kan In that test you are comparing \relax to the first token in #2 if the first token is \relax all following tokens will be processed.

kan

@DavidCarlisle and you create \relax by typing in \relax... ?

oh yes, you do... :)

David Carlisle

3:28 PM

@kan It's comparing the first token of #2 ro \relax (it assumes there that the tokens are text and never start with \relax if you put a,b,\relax foo, c,d as the list it will do the wrong thing. But it doesn't have to be \relax there I could have use \documentclass or anything the point is that \def\qcommut#1{\xcommut#1,\relax,} puts a dummy token at the end of the list (\relax in this case) so there is an assumption that none of the real items starts with that token.

kan

@DavidCarlisle Hah, that explains a lot.

I think what I am looking forward to do is quite ambitious, esp. without a strong grasp...

Is there a way to have macros whose names are of varying length

in egreg's code above... that's what I am trying to tackle.

I think it can be.

@egreg I am trying to generalise yours. If you had come up with the solution to varying lengths also, please do not post until I explicitly ask for it... please... :)

Bugbusters

How to increase the TeX's memory capacity for the following code?

\documentclass[pstricks,border=2pt]{standalone}
%\usepackage{etex}
%\reserveinserts{100}

\usepackage{pstricks}
\SpecialCoor
\psset{showpoints=true,unit=10mm}

\usepackage{multido}
\usepackage{fp}

\def\Atom#1{%
    \ifnum#1=1\relax
        \pspolygon(0,0)(!.5 dup 3 sqrt mul neg)(1,0)
    \else
				\def\SubAtom{\expandafter\Atom\expandafter{\the\numexpr#1-1\relax}}%
        \rput(0,0){\SubAtom}
				\rput{-60}(!2 #1 2 sub exp 0){\SubAtom}
        \rput(!2 #1 2 sub exp 0){\SubAtom}
        \rput(!2 #1 3 sub exp dup 3 sqrt mul neg){\SubAtom}

David Carlisle

@kan There is nothing there that fixes the length \definefoo abc is just short for \definefoo {a}{b}{c} as usual and you could so \definefoo {aaaaa}{bbbbb}{ccccc}

kan

@DavidCarlisle True that... but I am talking of something slightly different here... I'll post the code that might explain what I am trying to do... it might even work.

@egreg @DavidCarlisle Here is my humble attempt:

\def\definefoo#1#2#3#4{%
  \ifx\relax#4%
     \ifx\relax#3%
        \ifx\relax#2%
           \expandafter\def\csname#1#1\endcsname##1{%
           \csname greek#1\endcsname_{##1}}
        \fi
        \expandafter\def\csname#1#2\endscname##1##2{%
        \csname greek#1\endcsname_{##1}%
        \csname greek#2\endcsname_{##2}}
     \fi
      \expandafter\def\csname#1#2#3\endscname##1##2##3{%
      \csname greek#1\endcsname_{##1}%
      \csname greek#2\endcsname_{##2}%
      \csname greek#3\endcsname_{##3}}

David Carlisle

3:47 PM

@Bugbusters This makes something

\documentclass[pstricks,border=2pt]{standalone}
%\usepackage{etex}
%\reserveinserts{100}

\usepackage{pstricks}
\SpecialCoor
\psset{showpoints=true,unit=10mm}

\usepackage{multido}
\usepackage{fp}

\def\Atom#1{%
    \ifnum#1=1\relax
        \pspolygon(0,0)(!.5 dup 3 sqrt mul neg)(1,0)
    \else
				\sbox0{\expandafter\Atom\expandafter{\the\numexpr#1-1\relax}}%
        \rput(0,0){\usebox0}
				\rput{-60}(!2 #1 2 sub exp 0){\usebox0}
        \rput(!2 #1 2 sub exp 0){\usebox0}
        \rput(!2 #1 3 sub exp dup 3 sqrt mul neg){\usebox0}

Bugbusters

@DavidCarlisle: OK. It works. Thank you very much!

kan

Whee!

It does not work!

I should find a dummy token... \relax seems to not work.

Bugbusters

@DavidCarlisle: The issue still exists if I use 8. :-)

kan

How about \empty?

@egreg Do you have some suggestions for the previous code I put in here... it is not working...

Marco Daniel

Great effort:

6

Q: Entering unicode math symbols into LaTeX, direct from keyboard, on a Mac

I would like: my LaTeX source file to contain Unicode characters (e.g. I want to see λα．α ≠ β not \lambda\alpha\ldotp\alpha\neq\beta) to type these characters directly from my keyboard (e.g. I want to get ∃ by typing altE, to get ε by typing alte, and to get ⊖ by typing alt0alt-, and so on) I...

unicode editors osx keyboard

David Carlisle

4:02 PM

@kan I have no idea where you are putting these tests

Paulo Cereda

Hey @Bruno! :)

Bruno Le Floch

@DavidCarlisle I had started to dissect the Lua bytecode format to allow classic TeX (well, pdfTeX/XeTeX using LaTeX3) to run already compiled Lua code, but I didn't find good documentation at the time. For now, I'm concentrating on languages with a simple syntax (well, Forth it is, currently).

Hi @Paulo! Sorry I have been completely absent from all the discussions on the test system

kan

@DavidCarlisle Hmm... \ifx\relax#4 and so on are there, no? Aren't they the tests? \

Paulo Cereda

@BrunoLeFloch How are you? :) Don't worry about it, @David became a Lua expert just to fill out about 1k bugs on the current code. :)

David Carlisle

@kan I thought you were talking of egreg's definition of \definefoo a few comments if you don't mean that I'm lost. (Which is why eh main site is better than chat for asking questions that involve code)

kan

4:09 PM

@BrunoLeFloch Oh, so, this is similar to sagetex that allows you to include sagecode in the latex file? (But, I think, with sagetex, you'll have to "run sage once on the tex file"

@DavidCarlisle OK, I'll post this to the mainsite...

But this was it: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/9094892#9094892

egreg

@kan Is it this?

David Carlisle

@kan Oh OK so that tests that #2#3 and '4 are \relax and if so just uses #1. Isn't that what you wanted?

egreg

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{xparse}
\ExplSyntaxOn
\prop_new:N \g_kan_greek_prop
\prop_gput:Nnn \g_kan_greek_prop { a } { alpha }
\prop_gput:Nnn \g_kan_greek_prop { b } { beta }
\prop_gput:Nnn \g_kan_greek_prop { g } { gamma }
\prop_gput:Nnn \g_kan_greek_prop { d } { delta }

\NewDocumentCommand{\definefoo}{m}
 {
  \kan_definefoo:n { #1 }
 }

\cs_new_protected:Npn \kan_definefoo:n #1
 {
  \int_case:nnn { \tl_count:n { #1 } }
   {
    {1}{ \kan_definefoo_one:n #1 }
    {2}{ \kan_definefoo_two:nn #1 }

@kan I added an S prefix, so there's less risk to hit an already defined command

kan

@egreg Hah! But, the code is totally incomprehensible to me... :( I'll go through it... But, I think that's what I had in mind...

@DavidCarlisle Exactly, as wanted... but, the code does not compile...

Bruno Le Floch

@kan The interpreter that I wrote for Forth works directly within TeX: no external call is needed. This is different from sagetex, pythontex, etc., which require the user to run TeX, then an external program (sage, python), then TeX again.

egreg

4:15 PM

@kan First of all a table of equivalences; the \definefoo command counts the number of letters in its argument and decides what to do. So \definefoo{ab} calls \kan_definefoo_two:nn ab which essentially does \def\ab#1#2{\alpha_{#1}\beta_{#2}}

kan

@BrunoLeFloch Hah, as I had guessed... Thank you... :)

Bruno Le Floch

@PauloCereda Doing great, spring physics school in Crete, the sun shines (some days), I can hear the sea from here. :-)

Paulo Cereda

@BrunoLeFloch How nice! :)

David Carlisle

4:30 PM

@kan you haven't got any \else :

\ifx\relax#2%
       \expandafter\def\csname#1#1\endcsname##1{%
       \csname greek#1\endcsname_{##1}}
    \fi
    \expandafter\def\csname#1#2\endscname##1##2{%

kan

I was thinking like, if something fails it just falls off down to the part after \fi... So, where should the else go?

David Carlisle

@kan in that you test if #2 is \relax if it is you use the version that only uses #1, but then you go and stick #2 which you know to be \relax into \csname and get an error. That is presumably supposed to be teh else clause of that if

@kan If something fails TeX stops and complains.

\ifx\relax#2%
\expandafter\def\csname#1#1\endcsname##1{%
\csname greek#1\endcsname_{##1}}%
\else
\expandafter\def\csname#1#2\endscname##1##2{%

\fi

@kan and similarly for all the other tests (there are other ways of structuring it but get it working before you optimise it:-)

!!/battle

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Psmith, the TeX bot: The current score is egreg 260 vs. 260 David. So far, nobody is winning today.

kan

@DavidCarlisle I am close to getting it to work but let me try harder...

jak

hello, anybody can help me? I need make a small language. How I can do this?

Paulo Cereda

4:43 PM

@jak Hello! What's the alphabet of your language?

jak

I need add name of lang. secyfic font (concatence 2 unicode glyph) and small hyphenation. Anybody can help me? my e-mail is re next dot next at and next o2 pl

alphabets is simple roman + some letter similar esperanto

but I have accent in begining of letter

David Carlisle

@jak This presumably: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/109779/…

jak

sign soft Ҕ + a = ą

yes, Can you help me? in this link is very easer version.

tell me what I can make this easy version with 2 words

lang name = prosciutki

David Carlisle

@jak If you need hyphenation patterns rather than specific words you need to make a new format with initex, you can not do that in a standard tex document, if you just need a few words you can list with \hyphenation and then use a standard language then you can use tex, but you didn't clarify the question (which is why several people have voted to close)

jak

I make my own lang

David Carlisle

4:49 PM

@jak Yes but TeX doesn't care whether it is an existing language or one you have just invented, the issues are the same.

jak

conlang=artificial language. My lang is more complicated but when I write "learn book" i have trouble. I write a sentence or

short text I need switching between my lang (polish) and my lanf (prosciutki)

This is my troble. Very offten scwitching between lang

kan

@David: I am unable to see what the problem now is:

jak

I must add {\hyphenaton} to every sentence in my book

in many places

in my lang is this same letters and different interpretation this in my lang and polish lang

this is trouble.

different hyphenation, different representation of signs.

BTW how i can create the font with specyfic begin word letter, end word letter and middle word letter. Is any tutorial :how to make a font?

Speravir

Hello, font substitution experts. I started an answer yesterday (only 10k+ users: tex.stackexchange.com/a/109966/9237), but had to delete it because of this at least unexpected behaviour if not bug:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage{tgpagella}

\begin{document}
1234567890 glyphs in \TeX\ Gyre Pagella.
\scshape
1234567890 Small Caps in \TeX\ Gyre Pagella.
\end{document}

In all TeX Gyre font samples for oldstyle figures the textcomp commands are used. Do you know, where it takes the glyphs, and if there is a way for replacing the lining figure characters with the oldstyle ones without the textcomp command? Package substitutefont?

jak

5:09 PM

Meybe this is usefull. Anybody can help me create this simple write system? omniglot.com/writing/arahauvarf.php small letters.

David Carlisle

5:25 PM

@jak No you don't use \hyphenation within the document ot is a global command that specifies the hyphenation points on a word.

@jak Making a font is very specialised activity, it's not the kind of thing you find in tutorials. It is also essentially unrelated to TeX so you will find very little experience of font design here. (I've used TeX for over 25 years and never designed my own font)

kan

@egreg What are the changes you made to the code to get it working? Apart from the elses and removing a relax?

I am unable to see what's wrong with my code at all...

egreg

@kan Without the \else branches either no code or the wrong code is executed.

kan

@egreg Yeah, apart from that... I fixed those and the code is still not working. I have not copied and pasted yours yet.

\documentclass{amsart}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\makeatletter
\def\definefoo#1#2#3#4{%
  \ifx\relax#4%
     \ifx\relax#3%
        \ifx\relax#2%
           \expandafter\def\csname#1#1\endcsname##1{%
           \csname greek#1\endcsname_{##1}}
        \else
           \expandafter\def\csname#1#2\endscname##1##2{%
           \csname greek#1\endcsname_{##1}%
           \csname greek#2\endcsname_{##2}}
        \fi
     \else
    \expandafter\def\csname#1#2#3\endscname##1##2##3{%
    \csname greek#1\endcsname_{##1}%

David Carlisle

can be closed TL tex.stackexchange.com/questions/110085/…

percusse

5:41 PM

@DavidCarlisle As you wish.

Paulo Cereda

!!/eightball Should we close the question?

@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: without a doubt.

egreg

@kan I've added a different one that perhaps is more efficient.

kan

@egreg Hah, will check out! I have got the code working. Some silly typos.

NobbZ

Hi there! I just searched, but it seems that my searchfu isn't good enough, so I wanted to ask if there is already a question addressing my problem. I am sure there has to be… It feels very common…

kan

@egreg Cool! I saw a similar trick of yours in another answer. :)

NobbZ

5:48 PM

Given a package defined command \dummycommand and I want to redefine it to manipulate some ouput

Is there a way to preserve the old behavoiur of that command?

kan

@NobbZ like:

NobbZ

Is there already a question on TSE or have I to aski it?

kan

     \let\olddummycommand\dummycommand
     \def\dummycommand <sth>

?

NobbZ

forgot to mention, latex ;)

kan

@NobbZ you can do the above in LaTeX.

NobbZ

5:51 PM

\renewcommand{\dummycommand}{fu}
…output…
\renewcommand{\dummycommand}{\olddummycommand}

But that has resulted in an endless compile

I canceled after 5 minutes

I already tried \newcommand{\olddummycommand}{\dummycommand}

egreg

@NobbZ For saving the old meaning of a command a form of \let is necessary. If the command is "complex", it's better to be save and use \LetLtxMacro\olddummycommand\dummycommand (you need \usepackage{letltxmacro}. Using only \newcommand and \renewcommand will definitely bring you in an endless loop.

percusse

@egreg Is that due to the unexpanded definitions?

NobbZ

Its just a short separating expression in this case used by vhistory-package

kan

Well folks! I am off! To sleep.

egreg

@percusse The documentation of letltxmacro shows clearly why that command is necessary. It has to do with commands having an optional argument or defined with \DeclareRobustCommand

percusse

5:59 PM

@egreg Let me check.

egreg

@NobbZ The usual pattern is

\let\olddummy\dummy
\renewcommand\dummy{...}
...
\let\dummy\olddummy

@NobbZ You can't do it with \newcommand and \renewcommand instead of \let

NobbZ

Thx @egreg, that one works.

percusse

@egreg I see! But this is now fixed in L3 right? If I understand correctly the definition mechanism.

Dinner time

egreg

@percusse Not really. There's no need for \DeclareRobustCommand any more, but the problem will be there again with commands with optional arguments.

David Carlisle

@percusse In a real L3 format (as opposed to running over 2e) the problem is solved by removing access to \let

Speravir

6:20 PM

@PauloCereda Silex is Silke Hofstra, so very, very likely a She. ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@Speravir Oh, sorry.

:(

jak

6:37 PM

I no need font from scratch. I only need font from ttf or otf but with specific.

begin , midle letter. special ligatures etc.

Paulo Cereda

Ligatures imply new font glyphs, they are not made on the fly.

jak

6:55 PM

ok, byt what i can tell tex which ligatures is for which

which ligatures is important than which?

etc. I have font

tell me what i can set begin words letter

or last word letter.

look this (for example a) omniglot.com/writing/ayeri.htm

sylabic alphabets is different than hyphenations

David Carlisle

7:40 PM

@jak But you asked about a new language in a TeX forum and the only thing in TeX that is language specific is the hyphenation tables. To TeX language is hyphenation.

@jak (classic) TeX has no direct access to the ligatures in a font, if you need to change them then you need to edit the font metrics and/or the font. If you are using xetex and opentype then you do have some access but I'm not that familiar with the details. But if the glyphs are in your font you don't need automatic ligature mechanism you can use markup commands to access the font positions directly

Speravir

@PauloCereda You’re welcome, I don’t need a sorry. ;-)

jak

ok

Paulo Cereda

@Speravir Uh-oh.

@Silex: sorry. :)

Speravir

@PauloCereda :-)

jak

I have new question: I have font ttf with latin and greek letter . What i can set up tex to use in word 'test' letter τ (greek) τest

first letter in all wordg begining from 't'

last t is alvays latin 't' I can't change the ttf but I need make a new virtual font.

Scott H.

7:55 PM

Hello all: does anyone know the appropriate place to forward errros/oversights etc. in the latex3/xparse documentation? Would it simply be the "latex-team" email, or is there a better place?

Joseph Wright

@ScottH. Team e-mail, GitHub or direct to me :-)

The latter probably not so great as it's not logged

Paulo Cereda

@ScottH. LATEX-L@listserv.uni-heidelberg.de I guess. :)

Oh @Joseph was quicker.

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda LaTeX-L also a possible :-)

Scott H.

@JosephWright Thanks, I'll see if I can figure out the GitHub, if not then I'll use the email :)

Transcript for

$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends