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12:33 AM
@DanHulme Go big or go home I always say.
10 hours later…
10:38 AM
Interesting site. I think the homepage is actually a live webcam. sagmeisterwalsh.com
If so, I'll bet nobody does anything naughty in that office
I want to phone their office to see if any of the phones in shot light up.
11:19 AM
Always experimenting
@JonW "For a good time call (212) 647 1789" is one of the lines that appears in the bottom left...
@Pesikar I don't think my office would approve of me calling New York just for giggles.
I left that screen up for about 40 minutes. My Chrome browser got up to about 1.8GB memory usage so I had to terminate it before everything exploded.
Incase anyone missed the 'special' 1st April post on this site yesterday (and don't have rep to see deleted questions) here is a screencap of it:
user image
1 hour later…
12:33 PM
@JonW thanks for the edit - where'd I get Telegraph from!!
@RogerAttrill Guess you must've been reading Telegraph recently and it was still in your head. Good job you only referenced that and not 'Massive Jumblies Magazine' or something.
More likely to be the Beano in our house!
Didn't they close down the Beano recently?
I keep the MJMs under the Next catalogue 'cos no one else can lift it
Umm - Dandy maybe
Oh yeah, I remember all the Desperate Dan / Cow Pie articles in the news.
12:43 PM
Even as a kid I found Desperate Dan comics to be a bit samey
Have you ever read some of the comics that we had as kids when you were an adult and realised that they were really written for adults?
So much nuance that I missed as a kid, with lots of innuendo.
Sort of like most animated films come to think of it.
1:18 PM
Does anyone know of an Android equivalent to the iPod touch?
@JohnGB Not exactly. Things like Nexus7 don't have phone connections so are wifi only, but I imagine a 7" one isn't what you're after.
@JohnGB Haven't heard of one. Though there's an Android camera now. But I'm not sure there's much market at all for mp3 players these days aside from a few iPods
It's odd that I can get an Android tablet for less than I can get a smaller device
@JohnGB the phones have a lot of extra expensive crap the tablets lack (mostly the phone bits), and smaller is usually more expensive for same-specs stuff
You can probably find an old Galaxy S or something for <$100 these days though, stick a large SD card in there and you have an MP3 player
@BenBrocka Probably less of a markup on Google tablet too as they sell for closer to cost-price.
1:23 PM
I've had to tell my parents like 5 times that they can still use their old Android devices as MP3 players/whatever after they're "deactivated"
@JonW fair point
@JonW Yeah, Google's recent stuff is probably sold near cost like the Kindle Fire
Though the KF may well make a small loss and I'm not sure Google would do that
@BenBrocka Amazon presumably want to get as many people into their app store as they can. Google already has a decent sized user population so don't need to attract as many people by making a loss on their tablets.
Loss leaders :)
Oh the joys of economic war
Plus the Kindle is made for funneling people through their market (which is mostly paid stuff). Google's devices don't really require you to offer gobs of money after buying the device, though they're certainly trying to push that as well
1:29 PM
@BenBrocka good point.
The Kindle Fire is neat in some ways, but the OS itself is little more than an Amazon store and your amazon content
I love my Kindle reader, but I avoid using Amazon with it
Callibre rocks
Oh yeah my plain Kindle Keyboard is great, as to is the whispernet method of buying books for it. But I don't use it for anything else. The locked down Kindle store nature of the Kindle Fire is what put me off that tablet instead of the Nexus 7.
Yeah, I got one for my dad and tried it out for a couple weeks first. They get a lot more on Amazon than I do and he seems to be enjoying it a lot more than I would (even wanted the newer one for christmas again last year)
@JonW Congratulations on becoming a 10k user!
1:42 PM
Yeah it's been a while coming but got there in the end!
Congrats :)
Lost about 200 in the last day though. Although to be fair it was unfairly gained rep!
But it was fun.
Nothing wrong with that every now and then
The SuperUser one a few years back was my favourite. The one about the monitor filling up with fish.
Never saw it.
1:49 PM
Didn't we have the cats last year?
Neat, though I can't get it to appear on my PC
@BenBrocka Adblock turned on?
But the image is nice. We need it here too
@BennySkogberg It's StackExchange wide. We do have it
Aha! Where is it?
Doesn't show up in Incognito
It's probably not on SO or different on SO, they do require registration
1:56 PM
Under some circumstances (that we're not quite sure or) but you need to be signed out of the website.
I have no account on physics, but didn't see it anyway...
Yeah, we're not sure of the visibility requirements. I certainly saw it on UX.SE earlier when using Chrome regular mode, not signed into the website.
It's probably in A/B testing
Maybe. Looked very nice though :-)
they've been testing/brainstorming assorted new user UX stuff
2:39 PM
Q: How to get team to use UI Pattern/Component Library

user30208I work at a company making UI widgets and components using HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. Management and the programmers have requested that I put together a Component/Pattern Library (hybrid - with code, examples, guides, etc.). Essentially, they want a final product similar to YUI or jQueryUI. The ...

I'm honestly unsure whether this should be here, on Programmers or on Workplace
UX is what suffers if they don't do this, but it sounds like the job to be done is team management
Check with Chris in the TL, see what he thinks.
@BenBrocka The Kindle as a low-powered e-reader is a great mechanism for dealing with books, and I have no issues with paying for reading material after the purchase since it's still cheaper / faster than ordering a physical book. The Kindle Fire as a tablet sucks compared to my Nexus 7.
@RachelKeslensky Screen and speakers are better on the KF. But that wasn't enough to get me to go for that over the N7.
yeah, the 2 speakers are actually pretty nice
but only in certain orientations
The speaker in my N7 is pretty crappy really. I need the volume up near max just to hear a YouTube clip.
2:52 PM
I get why Amazon felt they had to do it, but I also feel they'd be better served trying to sidestep the tablet market (similar to Nintendo's foray into 3D rather than compete with mobile gaming) vs. trying to join the wars as "Android but not really".
@RachelKeslensky Don't forget that Amazon is fundamentally a supply chain company rather than an inventing company.
No idea how well the Kindle Fire-HD is selling, but i'd be interested to find out.
Also fair to note that I'm comparing the e-reader (which has had a few generations to sort itself out) vs. a tablet, but even so.
According to this: businessinsider.com/amazon-kindle-fire-sales-estimates-2012-12 The Kindle Fire is doing a little worse than expected, but that's kinda okay because it means Amazon is losing less of its shirt in the process.
Honestly, the idea of "using your hardware as a loss leader" is a bit flawed. If you're not at least covering your costs, you're doing it wrong.
huh, I thought it was doing fairly well. They had a big ad calling it the best selling item on Amazon
Which shouldn't be that surprising since it's had ad space on their homepage off and on for like over a year
You can only buy it FROM Amazon.
2:58 PM
Sold more than the latest One Direction CD? I find that hard to believe.
@RachelKeslensky It served the printer industry well for quite some years.
@RachelKeslensky Not true, I've seen them in PC World.
@RachelKeslensky Not always, loss leader makes sense when each device on average makes up the loss in purchases
@DanHulme The Printer Industry doesn't sell printers, it sells ink cartridges that come with a fancy shell for the first hit.
game consoles are almost always loss leaders at launch because the console maker gets a chip of every new game sale, and you don't get those at all if the console doesn't sell
2:59 PM
@BenBrocka Or even when it's not expected to make any money for you, but you just want to be in that marketplace because that's where all the money will be in the future - see XBOX.
I was not aware Nintendo did that with their consoles, price slashing and "Ambassador" status aside.
Now a PC "console" as a loss leader doesn't make sense unless you're Valve, which is why the Piston "steam box" (which isn't actually blessed by valve) is crazy expensive
@RachelKeslensky I don't think Nnitendo does, they make super cheap hardware
Though they might have with the 3DS since they had to massively chop the price down
@BenBrocka The WiiU might be a loss leader, but the wii certainly wasn't - they were making money from each one of those sold from day 1.
Not sure the Wii U is either; it's price isn't particularly low. It's about in-line with what I'd expect for current gen specs + fancy screen controller and more memory
but then the games-sold-per-console-sold is lower for Nintendo than any other manufacturer
people buy one or two games and play them forever
3:05 PM
Including portable?
I think a certain amount of that has changed with the eShop releases -- which is basically printing money for Nintendo since they (usually) charge the same price for a digital copy.
I'd definitely expect that for the Wii, I'm sure there are thousands of units that never bought any games ever and only played Wii Sports for a while. The portables I'd be more surprised by that though
@BenBrocka AFAIK, but I learned that figure when 3ds was still new and before PS Vita came out, so it may no longer be true
And the Wii U is having the same no games problem of the PS3's launch
Should have launched with Pikmin 3 and that Wind Waker remake IMO, but oh well, I'm also glad they didn't rush Pikmin
@DanHulme I bet that's heavily tainted by the Wii. It was a great seller as a single product, but relatively few of those buyers were gamers in the...people who buy games sense
The Wii U is also the first console of the "new" generation. It's going to suffer a little comparatively until people see a need to compare it to another new console.
3:09 PM
It'll certainly look cheaper once the Xbox3 and PS4 price tags are out (though I don't suspect Sony will repeat the $500 price tag)
But Nintendo's problem has always been medicore 3rd party support for it's home consoles, and that's continued for now
@BenBrocka Don't forget the Oculus Rift / Steambox and the other new breed consoles that'll muddy the waters even more.
If anything indie games might be their salvation, at least for the digital market; the Wii U already has a digital store 100x better than Wii Ware
What a joke that was
@JonW I don't suspect any of those will matter much. Oyua maybe a little. Everything else, nah
That Piston box costs $1000 for $400 worth of specs (SSD included)
You're buying microATX specs in a slightly smaller than microATX case and that's your premium. Whoopdiedo
"Gunman Clive" was the best $2 I spent on the 3DS. the eShop really does provide some relief in the "we have an outlet for cheap games" sense.
@BenBrocka I dunno, i'm not going to pin my colours to any mast until we know what's coming out, when, the cost and the 3rd party support.
IS that a download title? I've been shying away from them on Nintendo consoles
3:12 PM
I reckon Steambox will have a decent chance really. If they can get the cost down.
If my WiiU or 3DS dies I'm SOL and I'd have to buy all the digital stuff again. With Sony stuff I can just redownload my stuff and keep playing
It's an eShop title. I picked it up and was satisfied.
... Yeah, I need to look into how to back up my 3DS. It's a rather glaring flaw for a device at this point.
@JonW They'd need to get the price WAAAAAY down. Who are they targeting? Console gamers balked at $500 for a relatively high-end box with the PS3. $1000 is insane. And PC gamers know better
@RachelKeslensky put everything on the SD card. Then cry because if you lose the 3DS your new 3DS can't read it. Bleh
Also, the first eShop title I'm likely to buy is Mew Mew Train: destructoid.com/…
Though I did get 3D Kirby's Adventure, mostly for an excuse to play Kirby's Adventure again
3:34 PM
@BenBrocka Current price quoted is just for the dev box, I believe. I don't think they've been able to quote any consumer prices yet. Although I've not been following all the news on it so it might have passed me by.
@JonW no, it's the consumer Piston box. Valve hasn't announced a box at all yet
It looks like garbage
@BenBrocka Ah I see. They've said they'll be making their own one but haven't give out any details of it yet. At the moment it's just being able to let 3rd party hardware devs hook into Steam to do their own thing with - hence Piston.
I'm still pretty doubtful for it's future
It's going to be a linux box and that just kills it for a lot of games
What about the Oculus Rift though. Tell me you're not at least interested in playing with one of those.
If you want stuff that's been ported to Mac/PC a console will probably do just fine. The appeal of PC is the oodles of available stuff. Sure, you can install windows on it, but at that point you've already lost the console-like appeal and you're into "just get a PC" territory
The rift does sound interesting but after the 3DS I'm pretty meh on 3D gaming
3:45 PM
3DS has the issue that you can never get properly immersed because it's a smallscreen and lots of other stuff is likely going on around you.
It's not the immersion
The fake depth-perception?
It's a headache and a pretty minor effect when it does happening, and often it's not happening aside from the HUD
I'm sure Rift will cause major headaches. But being able to look around you in, for instance a Flight sim or racing game just seems great fun to play around with.
@JonW should be a great improvement over TrackIR
Am I the only person who doesn't get headaches from 3D?
I love 3D on the 3DS, and on my PC
3:49 PM
Not so much a headache is it just feels weird and the graphics seem to drop in quality
Is the 3DS in lower resolution in 3D mode? Everything looks blockier
the anti-aliasing is not implemented for 3D
or it is, but not well
I hugely enjoyed Crysis 2 in 3D
Ahhh that'd be why
also Portal 2
I have a 3D TV but I never bothered getting the glasses
$80 dorky glasses for very few games is a hard sell, especially when they're super tied to your TV model
Seeing the 3DS's 3D made me decide there's no way it's worth it
my laptop came with a pair :-)
you don't get the resolution problems like you do on the 3DS
3:54 PM
The headaches come from not being able to focus properly. It's not 3D unless you can choose to focus on the near or the far objects. With current 3D you just get shown stuff already focused for you, so when you try to change focus with your own eyes nothing changes, you just end up confusing / hurting your brain.
Now if they could track your eye focus and adjust the picture being display accordingly, that would be impressive.
Or just, you know, invent proper 3D holograms and shit. That'll be awesome.
Someone wants to roll back my edit:
As it was me who edited in the first place I don't want to reject it myself, but I don't think the line I removed is necessary, in fact it makes the question even worse.
Man that post sucks
Also stop denaturing things @JonW
Denaturation is a process in which proteins or nucleic acids lose the tertiary structure
Posts like that mean that no answer will be accepted unless it supports OP viewpoint, even if their viewpoint is proven to be inaccurate.
Nintendo is learning how to 3D properly. The earliest games suffer as a result of this learning curve, but Fire Emblem is GORGEOUS.
4:00 PM
@JonW I know. Just leave the protiens alone, Jon. They never did anything to you
@JohnGB It's already been rejected. Looks like they're trying to do it again. I removed that stupid angry line and someone keeps trying to put it back in again.
I rejected it as well
I just rejected that!
Maybe we rejected at the same time
No I mean he made the same edit literally two minutes before that one
4:05 PM
Edit was tried twice. Now a comment was left against the question about it. He really wants that line included in the question but it's totally unsuitable for such a site.
Ah, yes, the edit shows the original post is merely a rant. Voting to close. — DA01 5 mins ago
4:21 PM
Reject reason: "Save it for your blog"
4:55 PM
@JohnGB that is hilarious. inappropriate. but hilarious.
Which of my many comments are you referring to @CharlesWesley?
@JohnGB the whole body of work really
Always good to know that. I aim for inappropriate as much as possible
6:01 PM
Q: What is the best way to request individual characters from a password?

alexmullerFrequently, sites that should really value security (especially banks) ask for several individual characters from a password. Typically I've seen them do it like this: download bmml source – Wireframes created with Balsamiq Mockups Is there a better way?

Er...what possible reason would one have to request this?
6:52 PM
@BenBrocka Some silly banks do this
7:04 PM
Disturbingly hearing "banks" allows me to accept how someone could be this stupid about security
but seriously, what's the alleged benefit security/usability wise for inputting bits of a password over the whole password?
I could input my whole password much faster than I could figure out what the 6th character of it is
It's supposed to be some other level of security for when you do something after logged in
Damn silly if you ask me
Lots of UX headache with no real security benefit
But that they even KNOW what the 6th character is
The only way they can know this is if they don't store the passwords securely
Should just be a salted hash that is stored. Nothing else.
It's theoretically possible that they also store a salted hash of a few random characters for verification, like how Facebook stores a capslock version of your password too
though it's far less useful
But knowing how many organizations, it probably is in plaintext. Encrypted if you're lucky
8:07 PM
@BenBrocka it originally came from telephone banking. The advantage is that the phone operator can check your password that way without ending up knowing the password.
@DanHulme oh, makes zero sense online though
@BenBrocka Well, it provides weak protection against MITM attacks, the same way.
8:23 PM
HSBC's implementation makes more sense where you have a password and a "security key" which is essentially a second password.
so you have to have the password AND the security key, and they only ask you to enter some of the chars
@CharlesWesley HSBC in the UK now issues SecurID-like auth tokens
for business and home users
i'm referring to online banking and my experience is only for US customers so they might have different approaches for the two markets
it used to be a Flash based input for the security key
where you would "type" the key in using your mouse on a flash keyboard
I'm guessing to protect against key loggers or something
now they just ask for 3 random chars
yeah, that stopped working when the keyloggers started taking screenshots on mouse clicks
that's interesting
8:45 PM
@CharlesWesley If two passwords are better than one, why stop there? Why not have three? (comments aimed at banks)
There are better ways to prevent MITM attacks
i'm not arguing that it's better i'm just explaining their implementation
In NL you usually have to have a small device that you put your card into to get additional security
which is better than selectively asking for password chars
sure two-factor authentication is really better
@CharlesWesley I realise you aren't saying that, I'm just adding to the convo.
i use two-factor auth for several services, it's fairly easy... so long as you don't lose your phone with the app or the dongle :)
8:47 PM
The pain with banks here is that I have to take an additional gadget with me when travelling
It's a standard device here. I have 6 of them lying around.
the services I use have native apps for iOS and Android
so you only need your phone
There are additional security measures in the chip on the bank cards here. So it's card + device needed.
But I think that could also be improved a lot UX wise
Google's seems to be fairly friendly
lots of pathways to the end goal
Bugs me that if there is a problem with my phone that someone can gain access
And usually also use it to reset my password
Phone = email + sms auth
I trust nobody to guess my long nasty passwords more than I trust that to not happen
@JohnGB iPhone? They fixed that
8:55 PM
@JohnGB this is true. convenience is usually a tradeoff with security
Or do you mean theoretically
@BenBrocka again ;)
Ben broke something...
it seems once a year someone figures out a new way to get sorta past the lockscreen
In practice it's easier to steal someone's phone than hack their computer
If someone grabs your phone while you are using it?
It's not locked
Coming from SA where these things are regular occurrences, I don't trust that not happening
8:58 PM
one should only use their phone unlocked when sitting in a car equipped with a flame thrower
The Blaster (also called the "BMW Flamethrower") was a 1998 invention by South African inventor Charl Fourie designed to provide a defence against carjackings. The invention came in response to the increasingly severe violent crime situation in South Africa, which in 1998 had already made the country (particularly Johannesburg) the per capita murder, assault, rape and carjacking capital of the world. The Blaster was a liquefied petroleum gas flamethrower installed along the sides of the vehicle under the doors. Should a group of carjackers suddenly attack the vehicle while it is stopped...
9:15 PM
Yup. It was allowed in some areas as it wasn't fatal.

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