English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Huh?

Yeah.

Tract in what sense?

Dutch has tractaat...

Like religious tracts.

As opposed to contracts.

Opposed?

7:05 PM

Generally used today in this sense:

> 3 a In later use: A short pamphlet on some religious, political, or other topic, suitable for distribution or for purposes of propaganda.

Religious tract = religieus tractaat.

Interesting.

Guess they’re wrong then.

That’s what I was wondering.

Apparently.

I bet German has Traktat...

They may be right about the word tract. It's not tractaat. Or Traktat.

@StJohnoftheCross English is also unique in that it has the, an, I...

7:08 PM

Hm, there was a “Tractarian movement”.

@Cerb, call up the OED entry on tract. It has this amusing citation: “1869 W. P. Mackay Grace & Truth (1875) 43 - Tract-distributors and pick-pockets.”

@Cerberus Solicitors? No.

@tchrist Nice.

Notice they paint these damned tract-distributors with the same tarred brush as pickpockets.

So where in the OED do you see that tract is "unique"?

Vermin.

It’s up top.

tract [trækt], sb.[entry#1] Also 5-6 tracte. Etymology: App. abbreviated from L. tractātus tractate; not in any other lang.

7:10 PM

@MετάEd Okay, cancel my ticket, then.

(without formatting)

Bits of me are crying out for dinner. bbl

Okay, I see it.

So they probably mean just the speling without -at-.

I’ve never heard tractate before. (read: seen)

Bai!

7:11 PM

If I saw it, I might think it meant a treaty.

Although I suppose I would stumble on the treatise sense quickly enough.

Not entirely the same: a certain kind of ecclesiastical song.

It's stupid that English doesn't have a word for churchly.

Churchy?

Well, I mean, it exists, but I don't think you would ever use it.

Yeah, "related to a/the church/churches".

@Cerberus Your ticket?

Do you really need an inflectable adjective? Wouldn’t church as an attributive noun usually suffice?

7:15 PM

To your country.

@tchrist Never.

I would use churchy before I would use churchly. They mean different things to my ear. And no, I have not looked up their formal definitions.

I dislike "noun adjectives" except where appropriate.

How do you ask someone their shoe size, then? :)

That is acceptable.

Church music is a very very common formulation.

I see nothing wrong with it.

7:16 PM

I guess.

But Church Fathers?

That is the term, yes.

@Cerberus You could, however, drag them off your property if you thought they wouldn't go any other way.

Chat room dog heads!

@MετάEd Or at least to the garbage bins for pickup.

@MετάEd No violence?

7:17 PM

Miau?

@DavidWallace Wahhh stop it!

@Cerberus Dragging them off your property is violence.

Basically you can eject them using whatever non-lethal force would seem necessary to a reasonable person.

How about if you install speakers that automatically boom "Go away or you will be shot. <pause> <loud gunshots>".

Church Fathers

The Church Fathers, Early Church Fathers, Christian Fathers, or Fathers of the Church were early, often influential Christian theologians, some of whom were eminent teachers and great bishops. The term is used of writers or teachers of the Church, not necessarily "saints", and not necessarily ordained, though many are honoured as saints in the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran Churches, and other Churches and groups. Origen Adamantius and Tertullian, often considered Church Fathers, were not canonized as saints by the Catholic Church due to their ho...

@Cerberus It's probably not a good idea to make threats that you can't legally carry out.

7:18 PM

What do you call them?

Kerkvader, it says.

Yeah, Church Fathers, or Fathers of the Church.

@MετάEd Why not?

All our kirks are either north of Hadrian’s Wall or else in outer space.

Haha.

@Cerberus Because you might put enough fear into the other person that they might try to use deadly force on you?

A single noun adjective when it's short, that's usually OK. Several long ones, ugh. Extremely ugly.

7:21 PM

And then after the smoke cleared you might find yourself in jail for threatening to kill somebody ... if you survived?

Did you hear about the twitter exchange between Shatner and the space-station commander while in orbit?

@MετάEd They would have nothing to shoot at.

@Cerberus Well, sure: if you pile ’em up, it risks confusion.

And it's ugly when an alternative is available.

Technical manuals are the worst.

Try not to adjective your verb nouns though.

7:22 PM

Shatner tweet thingie.

Waahh!

@Cerberus I think you mean instruction manuals.

The more technical they get, the worse.

@Cerberus I’d ask for an example, but I’d likely agree.

I don't have one available.

7:24 PM

At least we have the decency to space between them use.

Ugh.

Don't you see, that only makes it worse because easier.

Desk top computer instruction manuals are the worst.

In Dutch, more and more people succumb to what we call the English disease, which means writing spaces in compound nouns.

@Cerberus They would have your property to shoot at. And might be justified because they heard a threat of deadly force followed by the sounds of gunshots.

You mean NIST radio alarm clock instruction manuals.

7:25 PM

@DavidWallace Ahhhh!

You might at least lose some windows.

@MετάEd They wouldn't shoot at a random window.

I am indeed a radio alarm clock instruction manual hater.

@Cerberus No syphilis, then?

I wonder how one says that in German.

7:26 PM

@Cerberus If I thought I was being shot at and that I needed to defend myself, I would probably shoot in the direction of the sounds.

Radioweckerbedienungsanleitunghasser.

If you needed to refill your car’s wind shield wiper solution reservoir, don’t you think there are a few too many spaces there?

But where? Hm.

@Cerberus It's up to you to put the loudspeaker where it will cost you the least to make repairs afterwards.

@Cerberus Hope there are no schools in the area.

windshield wiper-solution reservoir. windshield–wiper-solution reservoir.

windshieldwiper-solution reservoir.

@DavidWallace Possibly...but one really ought to use prepositions.

@MετάEd The sounds would come from a tree.

7:29 PM

I just never want to see windshieldwipersolutionreservoir, and do not understand why you would. :)

yet nonetheless, you typed it.

To make Cerb feel more homey.

That sentence is crying out for a comma.

@tchrist "The reservoir of the solution for the wipers of your wind-shield" is another option, although it is a bit long. You would not normally need to say it like that: you can just say the reservoir for the wipers, or something.

That would be pro-vocative.

7:31 PM

> Samsung, the world’s biggest Android handset manufacturer

It‘s a wiper reservoir, then?

Washer bottle.

See, this is still readable, but the world's biggest manufacturer of Android handsets is much better.

What was the Android handset manufacturer comparison process?

@tchrist Sure, why not?

7:32 PM

@Cerberus Yes.

@DavidWallace !

@tchrist Well, that is the general trend I was trying to show you, unnecessary & ugly noun-adjectives.

@Cerberus Wanted to make sure that sort of noun–noun compound didn’t set of your alarums.

In many cases, they are fine or necessary.

Attributive noun.

You could call it that.

7:33 PM

The brook no inflections of degree.

A dog head trinity chat room remark.

@tchrist I guess it is more aesthetic and clearer than noun adjective.

Does Dutch use bruiken in the negative way English uses brook no . . .?

@DavidWallace I dislike the David Wallace country style remark volley.

@tchrist Nope.

We don't use that word at all.

Ah.

7:34 PM

Country style?

Only with prefixes.

> 3 To put up with, bear with, endure, tolerate [a fig. sense of ‘to stomach’ in 2]. Now only in negative or preclusive constructions.

@DavidWallace Hah! You're not expecting me to help you resolve the inherent ambiguity in attributive nouns?

@tchrist I don't know what dictionary you are looking at, but that is not correct, at least not for modern Dutch. Are you sure you're not looking at an English–English dictionary?

I wasn’t.

> Etymology: OE. brúcan (pa. t. bréac, brucon, pple. ġebrocen), a Com. Teut. verb, but found in the other langs. with weak conjugation: OFris. brûka, OS. brûcan (MDutch brûken, Dutch bruiken), LG. brûken, OHG. brûhhan (MHG. brûchen, Ger. brauchen), Goth. brukjan:-OTeut. stem *bruk- ‘to make use of, have the enjoyment of, enjoy’:-Aryan *bhrug-, whence also L. fru-i (:-frugv-i), fruct-us in same sense.

Hmph. Dog head trinity chat room remark volley ambiguity resolution unhappiness headache.

7:36 PM

Not sure or not looking?

@DavidWallace Hehe. I paid you back in your own coin, so to speak.

I fished it out of the OED ent list.

Ah OK.

Gebruiken = to use.

German brauchen = to need.

Hmm I had no idea fruor and gebruiken were related!

That was surprising.

It's strange how English has branched off.

It also says:

> The strong pa. t. and pple. occur in OE., but no certain instance of either is known in ME.; 16th c. Scotch has the weak brooked, brooket, bruikit. The phonetic history is unusual; the OE. brúcan, ME. bruken, brouke, would normally have given mod. browk; while the mod. brook, and Sc. bruik normally answer to a ME. brōken, found already, as a by-form, in Layamon.

Hi @Mahnax.

7:41 PM

Hey @tchrist. How's it going?

Okishly.

Hi!

@tchrist Hmm. Do you have to work today?

@Cerberus Hey puppy!

So much for not wasting time here haha.

@Mahnax I might. They’re doing an O/S upgrade to our production line, and we’re all nervous about it.

So I am not straying far from the box, or rendering myself unfit for hacking, etc.

7:44 PM

Someone sent me a Facebook message this afternoon to have drinks on "the coming Saturday" (aankomende Zaterdag).

@Cerberus Bah! It's my day off.

Is that supposed to mean today, or next week?

@Mahnax Ohh wild!

Check the send-date.

This afternoon.

Today is not coming. Today is here.

7:45 PM

You're asking us to help you understand Dutch?

@Cerberus No homework or work! All I have to do is make dinner tonight.

So I would think. But Saturday next week isn't coming either!

Maybe they don’t really mean to invite you, and have provided confusion as a means of plausible deniability. :)

@DavidWallace Yes, please.

@Mahnax Ah OK. Something good?

Next Saturday is coming, just like Christmas.

But somewhat faster.

I guess I should have said Easter.

7:46 PM

@Cerberus Probably just pasta. I don't have much to work with at the moment.

@tchrist Haha, no, the invitation is quite cordial, and I wouldn't have known anyway without the invitation.

@Cerberus Dog head trinity chat room remark volley ambiguity resolution unhappiness headache sufferer unhelpfulness display apology occurrence.

@tchrist But I would say next week, then.

Yeah, coming is soon.

@Mahnax Hmm OK.

Pasta with bacon, parmesan, cream, white wine, parsley, egg?

@DavidWallace Haha that sounds like Chinese.

7:47 PM

Fish eggs on pasta. Hm.

I know Chinese people who would disagree.

Aankomend is like coming or upcoming.

@tchrist No, chicken eggs.

Perhaps they posted the invitation several days ago.

@Cerberus We only have two of those ingredients and I'm not allowed to touch one of them.

No tobiko? :)

7:48 PM

@DavidWallace The date stamp says 14:00 today!

@Mahnax Haha which one, and why not?

Bacon?

Too unhealthy?

@Cerberus White wine, because I'm just a kid.

Pasta with bacon, parmesan, cream, white wine, parsley, egg - hmm, I can touch 4/7 of those!

I know that it cooks out.

@Mahnax Are your parents that strict? It's just a splash, and the alcohol will evaporate during cooking.

@DavidWallace Haha making progress! What can't you touch besides bacon and wine?

@Cerberus I think they would be displeased about opening a whole bottle of wine for just a splash.

7:49 PM

I didn't know parsley was proscribed in Islamic law.

A: What is the correct way to write the interjection "ha ha?"

What in the world?

0

*hahaha should be used instead of ha-ha-ha. Because the second one makes some other kind of sense. If you want to be bit formal while chatting with your boss then you can use desaint which is equal to 3 ha's. Need to express more,then you can use a modifier in front of your desaint like this: 4 d...

@Mahnax Yes, that is a valid concern. No open bottle?

“desaint”?

@Cerberus No, none.

I always keep leftover wine for months, for cooking.

7:50 PM

Depends on the parmesan binding agent source killing method I suppose.

Raaaahhh!

I prefer to cook with white wine.

I prefer red wine.

This is the problem.

I never have white wine in the house.

Only red.

I have five bottles of old wine with maybe 10 % in them.

One white, four red.

7:51 PM

So you're half cut!

Eh?

Hah what?

That’s a very personal statement.

Is that flightless-bird speak?

I would have rather expected something like "tweet, gurgle!", but whatever.

I always mean to save some of the wine for cooking, but then I end up finishing it.

7:53 PM

Haha.

That can be a problem.

This is exactly the problem.

I still end up with an unfinished bottle every so many months.

Usually.

@DavidWallace So can you drink wine that the alcohol has been removed from?

And that lasts for every so many months of cooking?

@Cerberus I don't think so. But why would I?

For cooking.

@tchrist Not always. But I don't cook with wine that often, I suppose.

7:56 PM

How does one drink something for cooking?

One doesn't.

"Eat", then.

8:42 PM

@Cerberus my new apartment has a mechanical doorbell.

We have several generations of doorbells in the house, and none work right now.

:(

How was game night?

I want to fix the one that's got a painted over button, which I think is meant to go to a bell that's near it in the basement, but it's not the highest priority, since, well, people understand how to knock.

The newish one we had that was actually mounted with the button outside kept buzzing in every storm, so I just took it off...

Game night was fun!

Hooray!

I played a new game that my store had just gotten in, which was rather like Dominion with near-unreadably-small text and more attacking. Deckbuilding game.

user19161

8:56 PM

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I see you have become cornbread again!

I'm definitely not going to buy that one, but at least we were able to recommend whether the store should order a zillion more copies or not (answer: totally not)

@aediaλ :\

@JasperLoy shi!

I think we also played... lemme think. TransAmerica and Wizard (the latter is a trick-taking game kind of like Spades or Hearts, where you bet on how many tricks you are able to win)

user19161

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 At first, I was thinking, wtf is shi!

And I met some new people I hadn't played with before (I think my husband knew some of them, but some weeks I haven't been able to go)

9:00 PM

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Great!

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 All in all, a good night. I didn't mind trying the new game even though it turned out to be non-awesome - I love playing games that are new to me, because they could be really awesome.

@aediaλ ooh, I like those.

Even though I'm unlikely to ever be a game designer I also really enjoy seeing different designs and game mechanics, seeing what works and what doesn't.

@JasperLoy Duibuqi!

user19161

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Your mian bao ren zhe is killing my eyes!

9:03 PM

@JasperLoy :x

I got to wait 30 days.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Have you played Wizard?

user19161

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 WTF do you like Chinese? It's so hard to learn. I rather not know any of it...

@JasperLoy honestly, I really like writing the characters.

@aediaλ no'm

Would play.

user19161

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Oh, OK. I think it would be good if the whole world used only one language.

@JasperLoy they tried that.

9:04 PM

@JasperLoy Argh!

Like Latin?

Esperanto

is the most widely spoken constructed international auxiliary language. Its name derives from Doktoro Esperanto ("Esperanto" translates as "one who hopes"), the pseudonym under which L. L. Zamenhof published the first book detailing Esperanto, the Unua Libro, on July 26, 1887. Zamenhof's goal was to create an easy-to-learn and politically neutral language that transcends nationality and would foster peace and international understanding between people with different regional and/or national languages. Nowadays Esperanto is seen by Esperantists as an alternative to the all-in-English sp...

user19161

@Cerberus I think English would be good.

Latin is a better idea.

2

@JasperLoy Meh.

Latin is better!

9:05 PM

You've upset DW!

user19161

But if we could start all over, I would like Italian.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 He's not upset, he's merely upside-down, being on the opposite side of the globe.

Yes, the blood has rushed to my head.

@JasperLoy Italian is basically modernized, semi-vulgar Latin...

@DavidWallace Haha.

user19161

@Cerberus Vulgar is good.

9:06 PM

If you say so.

user19161

Let's go back to Sumerian.

I speak Vulgar!

Bet your ass.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 It gets really hard to control how many tricks you win so that you get your contract (the number you bet) exactly... but it's a really fun challenge.

@aediaλ Is there anything like shooting the moon or the queen of spades?

Wizard (card game)

Wizard is a trick-taking card game for 3 to 6 players invented by Ken Fisher of Toronto, Ontario in 1984. Wizard cards were first printed in June 1986. A Wizard deck consists of 60 cards: a regular set of 52 playing cards, 4 Wizards and 4 Jesters. The Jesters have the lowest value, then the one up to thirteen, with Wizards highest in value. The game is licensed in Canada, the United States, Germany, the United Kingdom, Italy and Japan. It is derived from Oh Hell and bears some resemblance to it. The Wizard card game The object of the game is to bid correctly on the number of tricks that a ...

It's so hard to search for but it turns out it's on Wikipedia.

9:16 PM

Oh, that sounds neat. That's a lot of bidding!

@Cerberus Even the Woolguss need to talk.

Oops, that shoulda been @chatkillah.

points to name tag

Who?

clears throat

Looks like we may have to refresh the window to see the new name.

9:18 PM

The masses. The vulgar masses. No relation to kookoo-koochoo.

feels bad

Aha. There we are. What does the Oriental text say?

Bread Ninja.

The 'corn' part doesn't work out so well.

No corn in China?

Amaizing!

2

9:24 PM

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 We always play with hidden bid (everyone simultaneously at start of the round). It keeps the pace up during bidding and usually as a group you end up overbid or underbid anyway so you can't play nice - someone is fighting over the last few tricks one way or another.

@aediaλ It's all fun and games until you get a Jester in your eyeball.

A Jasper?

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Haha. Indeed.

Oh, I'd better skedaddle! Dinner soon!

:d

I'm going to the record store.

I hope your move is going swimmingly!

9:28 PM

So far, yes! Thank you :)

poof