English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

12:06

So, it appears that the U.S. military is an equal-opportunity employer: they estimate that there are about the same number of sexual assaults on male military service members as on female ones — which sounds unlikely until you consider how many more males are in the service than females.

Robusto

An equal-opportunity offender.

tchrist

And the men used to almost never report it for fear they would be kicked out.

The things you learn on NPR.

Robusto

So what a strange dream, eh? In it I was in my old spot in the orchestra, looking over the shoulders of the viola players and seeing their scores using alto clef.

tchrist

That sounds right, actually.

Robusto

Which reminds me of a chamber concert I played in at Civic. Debussy's Trio for Flute, Viola and Harp. One of the few chamber works that wasn't just an excuse to get a flute up on stage.

Here's a pretty fair performance:

►

tchrist

12:12

Interesting to have a harp instead of a keyboard.

Robusto

Well, it's Debussy. Hard ensemble to put together.

MετάEd

What hall is that?

Robusto

Looks like one of the performance halls at Iowa State, I guess.

IIRC, my violist left to take the principal viola spot in the Singapore Orchestra the very next day.

Gotta go where they're gonna pay you.

MετάEd

Yeah, thought I recognized it.

tchrist

They never wear red dresses.

I don’t think they thinking-of-thinking bikeshed is going to go anywhere.

Robusto

12:17

@tchrist Edit?

tchrist

It seems focused enough; there just is no such word, so people keep flailing.

KitFox

-1

Q: Is the sum of plural objects plural or singular?

Is the sum of plural objects plural or singular? For example, “100 centimeters sums to one meter” versus “100 centimeters sum to one meter”. They both seem make some senses. For one thing, it is the sum of 100 objects, so it is suitable to use plural. For the other, in spite of how many things ...

Isn't this a duplicate?

tchrist

I think so.

Theone Manis

Trying to figure out which is more correct (in general sense): I am on road now. OR I am on the road now.

Robusto

The latter.

KitFox

12:24

I am on the road now.

You wouldn't use the other.

tchrist

@KitFox Five miles is a long ways to walk.

Robusto

The former is something no one would say.

tchrist

It might be related to that question, which I can’t remember.

Theone Manis

Why is "the" needed?

tchrist

en route, not “on road”.

KitFox

12:25

I think it was a twenty foot drop?

Robusto

@TheoneManis Because that's the idiom. The other sounds like a Russian trying to speak English.

KitFox

And "I am on a road now" sounds like you're not sure where you are.

Theone Manis

@KitFox there's no a.

Robusto

@KitFox Or that you're on an acid trip and narrating your experience.

Theone Manis

@Robusto okay, so it's an idiom!

KitFox

12:27

@TheoneManis Sure there is. It's the indefinite article. Also the first letter of the alphabet. Very common.

Robusto

But you would also say you are on the sidewalk, the highway, the street, etc.

MετάEd

Kris frequently makes me wish I could downvote comments.

4

Robusto

@MετάEd Word.

KitFox

In the car, the house, etc.

@MετάEd Do you have an example?

Theone Manis

Oh, ok.

MετάEd

12:29

@KitFox Oh, I was just looking at the $ 15000 cheque question.

Kris comments are frequently not helpful, or wrong. Not off topic or inappropriate (not suitable for flagging), just distracting and wrong.

Robusto

It's amazing how often they have exactly the wrong take on the issue at hand.

KitFox

He reminds me of Third Idiot.

tchrist

I wonder who have up voted this question. — Kris Mar 9 at 8:05

KitFox

We wish to confirm that this amount has been processed and is enclosed as a cheque totalling $15,000.00. — KitFox 19 secs ago

tchrist

@StewardGodwinJornsen Nice to be of help. — Kris Mar 3 at 13:05

Sometimes Kris exhibits NNS qualities.

KitFox

12:36

That's why he reminds me of Third Idiot. He speaks with great authority on matters of which he knows nothing.

tchrist

The hyphen is dead. Long live the hyphen. — Kris Feb 26 at 9:53

What diagram? Why don't I see any diagram? — Kris Feb 26 at 5:55

What image? Why don't I see any image? — Kris Feb 26 at 5:56

I really love these up voters to comments. Never fail to amuse me. — Kris Feb 19 at 6:11

“Conjugates”?

A complete set of conjugates is provided here. verbix.com/webverbix/English/overlie.html — Kris Feb 14 at 14:58

See what I mean about NNS stuff? Or "who have voted". Or nice instead of glad to be of help.

Curious.

He also has off-color remarks on Americans, which compounded with the timeline of his activity suggests Europe.

KitFox

Oh right. You're not privy to that sort of thing.

Then again, I think his name makes it somewhat obvious.

MετάEd

Yes. Kris is plainly from the North Pole.

tchrist

His slips are few enough that I have trouble placing him.

I have previously suggested Scandihoovian as a possible answer.

MετάEd

@KitFox Just based on the name where would you place Kris?

KitFox

12:44

Well, what if they weren't actually slips, but part of his native idiolect.

tchrist

Then the Outer Hebrides.

Orkneys, something like that.

KitFox

@MετάEd I can't say. I know already. That is a considerable bias.

MετάEd

@KitFox I am giving you an out.

You could always throw in a red herring or two.

tchrist

Kris is a Scandinavian version of Chris.

KitFox

I could. Like. Maybe it is a common nickname in his area.

tchrist

12:46

Oh, I know.

The Danelaw. :)

KitFox

Come now. A variant of English that sounds completely ungrammatical? That's not enough of a hint?

How can I be helping you this afternoon?

tchrist

Oh,

I see.

Funny name for such a person.

Speaking of which, I have yet another damned status call with their entire subcontinent in 12 minutes.

MετάEd

There's also Singapore.

tchrist

Ah, the Shingles.

MετάEd

commutes (and associates and other operations)

tchrist

12:49

Hall’s balls, I’m outta close votes already.

Isn’t English Composition a required subject any longer for native speakers? Sigh.

0

I think there is an element of alienability or entrenchment as to whether you can get away with dropping (eliding) the possessive... In the British author examples, the accent, disability or lifestyle is a part of who they are. Arguably the hat is too... so it is not too bad, and there is entren...

I’ve edited about 25 postings already this morning. Gosh, all those danged ellipses.

Sudhir

@KitFox:Hi

KitFox

Oh, it must have gotten bumped, huh?

Hi @Sudhir.

Sudhir

I hope you would be doing well.

I've one confusion.

KitFox

You are confused about something?

Sudhir

Yes

KitFox

12:55

@tchrist WTF? Is that even an answer? I can't tell.

Sudhir

that's I need your help.

tchrist

I can’t either.

KitFox

Maybe I should just delete it. I feel like I've been delete-happy this morning though.

Sudhir

@tchrist: Forgiveness should extend to even those who commit crime against humanity, by the way of lighter sentence after a confession.

tchrist

I edited it closer to standard English, but I still can’t figure out what it is saying.

KitFox

12:57

You're formatting at the end is a bit off.

tchrist

Sigh. I wish I had better answers on that question.

Sudhir

What's wrong here?

tchrist

Oops.

You mean the joke part?

KitFox

@Sudhir "crimes against humanity"

"of a lighter sentence"

@tchrist Yeah.

tchrist

I wouldn’t sure what to do about that. Oh, wait, I know. Just a sec.

Sudhir

12:59

commits is not apt here?

tchrist

Is that better?

Sudhir

@KitFox commits should come

KitFox

No.

those [people] who commit

those who commit

Those is intrinsically plural.

tchrist

I’ve given him a comment asking for focus. Maybe he will revise into an answer to the question, whose content I have included for clarity’s sake.

Sudhir

by the way is inapt.

KitFox

13:02

Oh. Yeah. Probably should be "by way of"

Sudhir

It would say by way.

What about crimes?

KitFox

And either "a lighter sentence after a confession" or "lighter sentences after confessions"

@Sudhir "crimes against humanity" or "a crime against humanity"

The plural is practically a set phrase.

tchrist

For people who call this, that, these, and those adjectives (these days they are more commonly classed as determiners, and usually demonstrative ones at that; they occupy the article slot in the NP), they are the only adjectives in the English language that agree in number with their nouns.

KitFox

I can see the confusion with "commit crime" though. You can say "Those who commit crime."

But this is unnatural in combination with "against humanity" I think.

Maybe because it feels like a kind of crime?

As a mass noun, crime feels generic.

What do you think @tchrist?

Sudhir

okay

tchrist

13:07

Um, well, I have that user on /ignore. I gave up trying to cope with them.

KitFox

Anyway, I'd just avoid the issue and use "commit crimes against humanity"

@tchrist Your hat question reminds me of the first interaction I had with BF. I meant to go back and edit his answer once things had calmed down.

tchrist

I think you should meet my friend, Hugh:

KitFox

Yes, Hugh and I go way back.

Sudhir

Genocide means a planned extermination of people.

What's wrong here?

tchrist

There’s definitely something fishy about him, though.

Sudhir

13:09

@KitFox?

KitFox

Nothing that I can see.

Sudhir

a should be replaced with the?

KitFox

@tchrist Hugh? I thought he was a manatee. Gawking at you through the haze.

@Sudhir I don't think it matters.

Sudhir

@KitFox: Part of reluctance in accepting social arguments about human nature lies in the fear that many scientist have, of falling into the Cartesian pit.

What's wrong

how recultance is followed by?

tchrist

@KitFox He’s got an attendant shoal of feeder fish nibbling at the algae that grow on him. I think they are like his personal grooming staff.

Sudhir

13:17

Is reluctance follwed by to?

@KitFox: tell

KitFox

Enough with the insistence. I'm not your answer girl. I am at work. I will help you when I can. I don't take commands.

tchrist

See now why I ignore that person?

They are a royal pain in the everything.

KitFox

I am well aware.

Sudhir

Sorry @KitFox: You're so generous.

tchrist

I tried to say what they were doing wrong, and got slapped for it. FTN.

KitFox

13:22

@tchrist Did I do that?

tchrist

@KitFox No, waiwai did.

KitFox

Well, I have a meeting now. bbl

tchrist

Thanks for fixing the FBF crap.

Sudhir

What does NP means?

KitFox

@tchrist I didn't do as much as I wanted, but it was as much as I thought I could.

Sudhir

13:24

@tchrist: You've used.

KitFox

Now really, later.

tchrist

Bye.

Sudhir

@tchrist?

Please tell, I need to leave.

Robusto

13:39

NP = No Problem

tchrist

P versus NP problem

Diagram of complexity classes provided that P [[≠ NP. The existence of problems within NP but outside both P and NP-complete, under that assumption, was established by Ladner's theorem.]] The P versus NP problem is a major unsolved problem in computer science. Informally, it asks whether every problem whose solution can be quickly verified by a computer can also be quickly solved by a computer. It was introduced in 1971 by Stephen Cook in his seminal paper "The complexity of theorem proving procedures" and is considered by many to be the most important open problem in the field. It ...

MετάEd

Mornin.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No.

RegDwighт

14:06

@Robusto I never trust stats I haven't forged myself, and my stats clearly say it's more like 77.4%.

Joe Dimaggio

15:19

@tchrist seriously P versus NP :D

Cerberus

16:40

Morning.

aedia λ

Afternoon!

Cerberus

How's the snow?

KitFox

steps away from the review queue

Cerberus

It's cold here but sunny.

puts cork in review queue

MετάEd

I was done with the review queue last night.

Burned all my votes much too early in the cycle.

Cerberus

16:51

What ever happened to one man, one vote?

KitFox

I had to keep reminding myself that my vote is binding and that's what we have a community for. And I still closed several that probably should have been up to you guys.

MετάEd

@KitFox Wait, wasn't the point of giving you mod privs that we wanted you to use them?

KitFox

Yes, yes. But shaping the content is the job of the community.

Taking abuse is the job of the mod.

Cerberus

Yay!

MετάEd

@KitFox So ... Krishna?

KitFox

16:53

shrugs How would I know?

MετάEd

From now on I'm going to refer to 'em as "Blue Guy".

KitFox

Not Krishna. You're thinking of the whole point of kashering stuff.

Blue Guy?

MετάEd

No, no, not kosher. You're thinking of the person who stands at the front of the line at McDonalds.

KitFox

No, not a cashier. You're thinking of...of...wait...let me think...

MετάEd

Blue Guy.

Cerberus

16:55

Rhama?

KitFox

@MετάEd Oh, of course.

Sudhir

@Cerberus: Its Krishna.

MετάEd

Kṛṣṇa

Sudhir

Our beloved god

KitFox

You're thinking of Hussein's doctor!

Cerberus

16:56

I think there are many different spellings/translitterations...

Oh, Krishna. OK.

MετάEd

Blue guy, favorite of the ladies.

Sudhir

We treat then as our beloved god.

KitFox

Lord of the dance, right?

Sudhir

Yes

KitFox

We should have more cheery gods.

Sudhir

16:57

@KitFox: is having is wrong in usage?

KitFox

Depends on the usage.

Sudhir

Sita is the only girl in my class who is having long hair.

KitFox

Sita is the only girl in your class who has long hair.

Sudhir

so its wrong?

KitFox

The hairs on your head is singular hair.

Well, she doesn't sometimes have it and other times not, right?

She is having breakfast.

Sudhir

16:59

Yes

KitFox

That's OK.

aedia λ

is having is wrong in American and British English for a personal characteristic like hair, or a possession like a backpack.

KitFox

But she has hair. Always. So no "is having."

Sudhir

So is having is used for uncertainty?

KitFox

No. He is having a good time.

That's pretty definite.

What do we call that? Present continuous?

Sudhir

17:01

Yeah.

KitFox

I don't know verb tense names anymore.

aedia λ

@Sudhir I don't think so. For having a good time or having breakfast, those are experiences that are taking place now. But they're not uncertain.

KitFox

I think I'm not even supposed to call them tenses.

Sudhir

Ok

I've been looking forward to see you for a very long time.

KitFox

And hullo @aediaλ.

Sudhir

17:02

What's wrong?

aedia λ

@KitFox Hola!

@Sudhir You can say I've been hoping to see you or I've been looking forward to seeing you

KitFox

That should be a gerund. "looking forward to" is a verb phrase. I think.

So a gerund follows it. "Seeing"

Sudhir

But ing doesn't follow to

I think.

KitFox

Right. But in this case, the "to" goes with "looking forward."

Not with "see."

Sudhir

Oh I see.

this is exceptional case.

KitFox

17:06

Yes. It's tricky.

Cerberus

I'm looking forward to the party.

I'm looking forward to the partying.

aedia λ

@Sudhir If you look in a dictionary you can often find these in the phrasal verbs section - here's OALD's listing for "look forward to": oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/…

Cerberus

I'm looking forward to partying tomorrow night.

KitFox

Oh, so I was right!

It is a verb phrase.

It's like I know something. feels pleased

aedia λ

Yep.

Cerberus

17:08

Haha.

aedia λ

pats fox on head

KitFox

blushes

Sudhir

@aediaλ:Thanks.

KitFox

@aediaλ I wish you were here a few days ago.

Sudhir

@Cerberus: to party is correct.

KitFox

17:10

No, no.

aedia λ

@KitFox Which few days ago? I did try to catch up on the transcript, though my comprehension at breakneck speed is iffy.

Cerberus

@Sudhir Where? Not in the examples I gave.

Sudhir

@Cerberus: you said :'m looking forward to partying tomorrow night.

Cerberus

You cannot use an infinitive after look forward to.

@Sudhir Yes, that is correct.

That's what Kit has been trying to explain to you!

Sudhir

ok

KitFox

17:12

I guess that was just yesterday?

Huh.

Oh. In the weird SE yesterday.

Cerberus

There are also verbs that can go with both, often but not always with a slightly different meaning.

> They agreed to leave her alone.

> He agreed to leaving her alone.

I think agree to + inf. is when the subject included all agreeing parties, whereas the subject in agree to + -ing is only one party in the agreement.

But it's probably not always so strict.

Sudhir

reluctance is followed by to?

Cerberus

Yes.

Normally reluctance to + inf.

Sudhir

Part of reluctance in accepting social arguments about human nature lies in the fear that many scientist have, of falling into the Cartesian pit.

aedia λ

@KitFox Awwh. Well, it seems you didn't need me alongside to hold your own.

KitFox

17:18

Well, it still would have been nice to have you hold my own.

Sudhir

@Cerberus: Its wrong?

Cerberus

No...you can use it with in, but it is a slightly different construction.

Joe Dimaggio

Hey guys, I had one question does it sound okay 'I am really lucky to have been able to come up this system'

Cerberus

I would expect a determiner before reluctance, though: our reluctance, this reluctance, or something like that.

@JoeDimaggio come up with this system

Joe Dimaggio

yes sorrry

sorry with rr* :)

Cerberus

17:20

Haha.

If you press the up key, you can correct older messages!

Up to 2 minutes in the past.

Sudhir

@Cerberus: ans is mentioning it incorrect.

Joe Dimaggio

oh ok thanks did not know that, firsttimers

Cerberus

@Sudhir ?

@JoeDimaggio We're always here to help haha.

Sudhir

Ans is we can't use in with reluctance.

aedia λ

@KitFox Hehe. I think I was busy yesterday wishing I could stab my own headache with my crossbow while trying to work, and then staying up hopped up on caffeine-containing meds deciding to flirt with all the characters in my party in Dragon Age. I have no sense whatsoever.

KitFox

17:22

Stupid Dragon Age.

aedia λ

So now it's bright and sunny and I've still got a headache. And none of the closest-to-romanced NPCs will sleep with me.

KitFox

sulks

You have to romance them at camp.

aedia λ

I did realize that eventually, but apparently want to get in my tent? isn't a great come-on.

KitFox

Well, Morrigan isn't in love with you, is she?

'Cause she won't if she likes you.

aedia λ

I think I'm perhaps not just far enough in the game either. Or maybe they don't like it that I keep giving them the bones with a little meat left on them that were probably meant for Cerberus.

Nah. I'm a female city elf.

KitFox

17:25

Yeah. Um. Well. They like certain things.

aedia λ

Morrigan won't hardly acknowledge me.

KitFox

She likes jewelry.

A locket, I think. And a grimoire.

Cerberus

@Sudhir It is not really wrong. I would replace it with to there, as the answer suggests, but in is not impossible.

KitFox

Sten likes paintings.

Alastair...there was a very obvious amulet of some kind. Pretty much had his name on it.

Cerberus

@KitFox I'm in love with Morrigan, of course!

Whom else to choose as a man?

simchona

17:27

Hey all

aedia λ

Hiya!

simchona

@aediaλ Haven't seen you in a while!

KitFox

@Cerberus The prissy bisexual?

Cerberus

@aediaλ Haha yay! Did you call your dog Cerberus too?

aedia λ

@Cerberus Of course. He's only got one head but... I figure the others are demons I just can't see.

Cerberus

17:28

@KitFox He is just intolerably annoying. Even the facial-make-over mod couldn't save him.

@aediaλ Haha exactly!

KitFox

@Cerberus I was talking about the woman.

Cerberus

I am honoured. First a moon, then a file on Aedia's computer!!

@KitFox Ohh hmm which one?

Not the French chick?

aedia λ

Leliana.

Cerberus

She is annoying as hell.

KitFox

Yeah.

Cerberus

17:29

Sorry.

KitFox

But she's bi, supposedly.

aedia λ

She's only barely less annoying than Zevran.

Cerberus

Oh OK.

I've only played as a man, so I wouldn't know.

@aediaλ They should hook up with each other and find some other camp!

Sudhir

Hi @Shyam

KitFox

"Drop-in and self-rimming sinks" splutters, giggles

aedia λ

17:31

giggles

@KitFox Alistair and Leliana both seem to be romanceable by my female character, yeah.

MετάEd

@KitFox Okay I give up on Hussein's doctor.

KitFox

@MετάEd Bashir.

MετάEd

@KitFox Hell of a gooseneck on those.

KitFox

snerkle

Joe Dimaggio

Can anyone explain to me the Hussein's story?

B.H.O?

MετάEd

17:35

No, no, not Bashir. You're thinking of a gourd, I think.

KitFox

I'm trying to find a sink/corner vanity unit for a half bath. None of my searches seems to think the "corner" is important.

Sudhir

Hi @JoeDimaggio

simchona

@KitFox signaturehardware.com/class1211

KitFox

@MετάEd No, no, not squash. You're thinking of that other game played in a tiny indoor court.

@simchona Thanks.

MετάEd

No, no, not squash. You're thinking of those secretive humanoids.

Cerberus

17:39

@aediaλ I would woo Alistair if I could—except that the entire Romance system is unbearably tacky and silly. I can't watch it.

KitFox

@MετάEd is confused But not Sasquatch. You're thinking of the famous big hairy guy.

MετάEd

Confused?

No, no, not ... The Hulk? :-)

Wait. He shaves.

KitFox

Squash is not a different game than squash.

aedia λ

@Cerb Yeah; I don't think it's that much better in other newer games either, but I usually do it to feel I've explored the story well.

MετάEd

I figured you meant squash (the game) to match squash (the fruit). The clue is always a soundalike to the previous word.

Or I should say the new word is always somewhat soundalike to the previous word.

aedia λ

17:44

The gifting in Dragon Age is excessively tacky though.

KitFox

@MετάEd Yeah, but I was doing it differently. looks perturbed

MετάEd

@KitFox See I thought you weren't

Cerberus

@aediaλ Yeah, I feel forced to do so too, but I avert my eyes.

MετάEd

I'm all for differently though.

Cerberus

Yeah, the gifting is silly.

I use a mod that shows which gift is meant for which person.

MετάEd

17:45

No, no, not the abominable. You're thinking of what you get after the bomb explodes.

aedia λ

If I ever played again I might do that but as I'm just finally getting around to the game now, I'm playing kind of... Tiredly and haphazardly, because I just want to explode things and see the story.

Cerberus

Heh OK.

I should probably get back to the game.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

so @cerb why the question about the months? because I think clocks that run in local time are useful, that should imply that I'd also support local calendars?

aedia λ

Also, my character is rather a clumsy brute who wouldn't think too much before smashing things, so if I really played in character, there is no way she would care whose gifts are whose. We have just enough cunning to be maximally intimidating, and not much willpower either.

KitFox

@MετάEd Uh. Abdominal?

I think I am coming down with the flu. Does that happen fast usually?

Cerberus

17:57

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But we don't have local calendars now.

December is cold for us, warm for them.

Just as, in Kit's system, 7 am would be early in Europe, but late in Singapore.

@KitFox Oh, dear. How fast?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus That's my question. Are you suggesting that I should support local calendars?

Cerberus

Why do you think it may be the flu?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Because of course I don't support local calendars.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Exactly my point.

You support the status quo.

KitFox

I feel like I'm getting a fever.

Cerberus

17:59

Oh, dear.

KitFox

Really achy.

Cerberus

Keep warm and don't move around.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…