TRPG General Chat

12:00 AM

I'm basing this diagnosis on your current descriptions of their behavior mapped against your several previous discussions about their behavior, both toward the game system and the GM.

Simon Gill

@BESW I'll second that diagnosis.

Zachiel

the analysis fits

I guess I need a "tough internet guy" now

BESW

If running a wish-fulfillment scenario for them is a problem for you, it's not one you can solve with game mechanics.

Zachiel

is calling names the npcs part of that?

Simon Gill

@Zachiel If their wish is to feel like Big Men In Dungeon, then it could be.

BESW

12:06 AM

If you call a mind flayer "Squidward," it usually stops being scary.

Simon Gill

@BESW and a definite source of jokey fun. I want a Intellect Devourer puppy called Squidward now...

BESW

(Speaking from personal experience on this one; I stopped using mind flayers entirely because of one player's previous experience with Squidwards contaminating the groupthink.)

Zachiel

no it's not the monsters, it's named NPCs

BESW

@Zachiel Same smell.

Zachiel

even helpful ones XD

Simon Gill

12:07 AM

14

Q: Please stop giving the town sheriff a noogie!

Related to this question but more closely related to this question. How can I get my PCs to not cause a single or small handful of characters to become the butt of a joke when that humor could easily decrease their survival rate and/or quality of life? I'm not interested in making them take the ...

BESW

Yup, Big Man On Campus syndrome.

Zachiel

they're not doing that in-character

BESW

It's classic "make us seem powerful by making others seem weak" tactics.

So?

Simon Gill

Some people want to feel like they have power - and jerks look like they have power, so emulating the jerks seems like the way forward.

Zachiel

ok i'm gonna read the answers to that question again then

BESW

12:09 AM

It's not quite what you're looking for, but it may be a place to start.

Simon Gill

Whether they'll help you in your situation or not is still in question, but hopefully they give you some idea.

BESW

Please notice that none of the good answers are mechanical like "Make the sheriff able to kick their asses."

This is an issue in the social group. If you make the monsters stop their fun in-game without some kind of out-of-game addressing of the issue, they'll likely leave the game.

They know they've got you over a barrel.

Zachiel

the last one best matches my group

Simon Gill

@Zachiel Did you read the comment though?

Zachiel

yes

the comment is the best part of it

BESW

12:12 AM

yeah, that describes your situation but is an awful way to address it.

The first question, though, is whether your situation is a problem.

Because if running a wish-fulfillment scenario for your friends is fun for everyone, it's not wrong.

Simon Gill

Well, it's late - time for me to find a bed and my kindle. Night all :)

BESW

ttfn

Zachiel

I think I'm not too happy to see them laugh at things I like

But it's not a real problem

Then again maybe we're wrong. It all started with one player genuinely not understanding the name "festrath"

and believing it was "festa", the Italian for "party"

it then became sort of a running joke

mmmh no wait spugnoir getting called sponge was before that

BESW

For me, it comes down to whether it's malicious.

Zachiel

I guess names supposed to sound fantasy for an english speaker may sound funny in Italian

BESW

12:25 AM

D&D has some truly ridiculous monster names, and I've had to re-name things several times just because I knew my players wouldn't be able to stay in their chairs for laughing if I kept the original.

Zachiel

using medieval italian names would be too much out of context

like? XD

BESW

"Fell Taint."

And generally I re-name anything with a made-up name that isn't already iconic and recognizable, just because it's easier to have a relationship of any kind if you can remember the thing's name.

"Nerras"? No thanks, they're "The Infinite Family."

Fell Taints got a minor re-skin as "like soap bubbles, if soap bubbles were made of eyeballs and tentacles instead of being round," and were promptly dubbed "those damn bubbles!" by the party.

I've got one player who has his character re-name every NPC they meet; Splug became Splat, for instance. But it's a running character joke, not an attempt to belittle or minimize the importance of the NPCs.

Zachiel

oh I'd like if a character did that

our characters don't have much of a personality but I guess the fault there is at least partly mine. See above.

I was thinking of reskinning 4e' s daily/encounter powers with magical crystals embodied in the characters

I fear how the players might react at the idea of having crystals planted inside the PCs

(well, I'd use that even for items. I hate playing an acrobat that needs to wear a mantle of some sorts at all times...)

BESW

12:44 AM

Oh, sure. Reskinning items is a proud tradition in my groups.

And 4e actually supports it in-game, with the ritual to transfer enchantments.

Your acrobat could use the ritual to transfer the enchantment from the mantle to, say, a nice torc or brooch.

Zachiel

my acrobat is 3.5

BESW

Choker necklace?

Zachiel

in an environment where "you must have a mantle-shaped mantle so the other characters can see it is a mantle and can speculate about what its effects could be"

like... she's an antipodist too and... well, can't throw daggers with my feet even if I have nothing in my hand. Otherwise, what's the point of playing an hadozee if you can do the same thing with a human? ...*facepalm*

we've come to the conclusion that if I want to pickpocket someone with a foot I must accept a -20 penalty because "using my foot" is not "a depiction of how I manage not to be seen" due to my roll but is a "it's harder" that penalizes me

Zachiel

1:00 AM

going now, ta.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

2:47 AM

@Zachiel Is this that silly online game?

BESW

@BrianBallsun-Stanton No, he's got an IRL game too.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

ah, is this IRL just as silly?

BESW

Yes, but in very different ways.

TheBW

9:30 AM

Good morning guys

What modification is mentioned here? rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/22334/…

I haven't seen this class in 4th ed, I am kinda interested

Simon Gill

11:05 AM

@TheBW Are you talking about the Witcher class Joshua created?

TheBW

11:27 AM

@SimonGill He created it? Oh. I thought that its in some book, or something like that. Pretty cool tho, I like it.

Simon Gill

Yeah, it's a custom class. Unlikely that a piece of IP like that would turn up in 4E :P

TheBW

There are some skills that are a bit OP, but still, kinda dig the whole VanHelsing feel about it

And the potions remind me of 3th ed wizards

Simon Gill

@TheBW Do you know anything about the Witcher books and games?

TheBW

No, not realy.

Simon Gill

The Witcher

The Witcher, or , by Polish writer Andrzej Sapkowski is a series of fantasy short stories (collected in two books, except for two stories) and five novels about the witcher Geralt of Rivia. In Sapkowski's books, witchers are monster-hunters who receive special training and have their bodies modified at an early age to provide them with supernatural abilities so they can cope with dangerous monsters. The books have been adapted into a movie and television series, a video game series, and a graphic novel series. The novel series (excluding the short stories) is also called the Witcher Saga...

You might enjoy it from the sounds of it.

TheBW

11:36 AM

I only play 4th ed, because my friends havent played tabletops at all, and its the only one I have played enough to DM. I will check it out tho, thanks. I wanted to do something along the lines of Dark Heresy next tho. I havent even checked if I can find any sources for that one, played it once, but at the time didn't care (know much) about w40k. Now I absolutely love orcs form that universe

Simon Gill

It's a series of computer games - all the RPG stuff for it is fan-made as far as I know.

GW Orks are really interesting.

A lot of the original races from 40k are.

TheBW

I have heard of the Witcher games, but I would rather read a book, since I cant bring my self to play anymore rpgs since Diablo 3

No more grinding for pants

Simon Gill

@TheBW Diablo 3 is a button masher, not an RPG :P

BESW

11:53 AM

"Grinding For Pants" would be a good name for a band.

Simon Gill

@BESW Sounds like it, yeah.

BESW

Hey, while you're around --is a blind PC in FATE as easy as I think it is? And does it mostly involve a massive amount of autocompels?

Simon Gill

Pretty much.

BESW

Sweet.

Simon Gill

You take the aspect Blind, and play a blind person. When being blind makes life complex, they get a FATE point.

BESW

11:57 AM

One of my players has had a "blind PC" concept since back when we were playing 3.5.

In FATE they sound like FP machines.

Simon Gill

(Any situation they should be reasonably expected to handle through their blindness doesn't get FP though)

Depends - take the Zatoichi blind-fighter concept. In a fight, his blindness isn't really a hindrance, so he doesn't get many more FPs than other players.

BESW

Yeah, this player wants an actually-blind PC, not a movie-hero-blind PC. Though he may be able to make up for it in some ways through stunts and powers, he never wants to be able to "act as if he weren't blind."

Simon Gill

There is no rule to stop him doing so - but no rule assumes he can see.

BESW

Aye.

He'd probably wind up compelling himself do things more slowly, take more roundabout routes he's familiar with, and so forth.

Lots of "Yes, I can do it, but it takes more effort and concentration."

Simon Gill

@BESW And that's normal - but he only gets FPs if that extra time actually adds elements to the narrative.

BESW

12:03 PM

Right.

I think he could really sink his teeth into that.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

10

Q: How do I help my players get past an obstacle I didn't intend?

Here's the situation. There's a locked door that prevents any further progress into the dungeon. There's a keyhole in the door and a message basically saying that the key needs to be wished for. In the room with the locked door is a wishing well. Each person is limited to one wish, and successiv...

gm-techniques

This happens to me all the time.

Silly players.

BESW

..make that five PCs he's got lined up for DFRPG, then.

@William'MindWorX'Mariager This was once the foundation for an entire campaign after they flummoxed the first quest.

Simon Gill

@BESW haha, is this the changeling player or the handyman player?

BESW

It was beautiful and wonderful.

@SimonGill Changeling.

Simon Gill

Heh, he should make up all the PCs he wants (try to get the handyman player and yourself involved to the same level) and then there are plenty of options for hopping around the city and picking up PCs.

BESW

12:06 PM

@SimonGill He's an interesting guy, because he comes up with something like a new PC every fortnight... but once he's started actually playing one, he will see that one PC through until that story is over before he picks up another PC.

Simon Gill

@William'MindWorX'Mariager Rereading it - there's an interesting economy-buster in there. Somebody wishes for domination - then dominates the nearby village to wish for things for him. It's worth faaaaar more than any treasure that could be hidden in the dungeon.

BESW

In the last two years, the only time he's ever played any other PC aside from his "main" is when the party couldn't really do without a different role because someone didn't show up, or during the Evil Interludes.

Simon Gill

@BESW Fair enough.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

@SimonGill Evil players...

Simon Gill

@William'MindWorX'Mariager Very evil players.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

12:10 PM

I've had the weirdest stuff happen. Like a paladin deciding to drown a Rat Swarm trapped in a cage in water barely deep enough to cover the cage. Ensuing is a paladin riding the cage like a rodeo cowboy while rats were slowly drowning and the rest of the group looking gawk eyed.

Not sure if he could rightly call himself a Lawful Good paladin after that.

Simon Gill

Of course - I don't want to know who built the dungeon in the first place that can generate infinite-wishes even with a limitation.

@William'MindWorX'Mariager Possession... clearly possession.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Does that even help? Aren't the gods like, "'tuff luck, should've resisted that bitch".

BESW

@William'MindWorX'Mariager In 3.5? They give you a break on atonement costs.

Simon Gill

Meh, paladin codes are one of those things that are just too full of conflicting ideas to work right.

BESW

12:28 PM

Idea for the devil in the dragonpope fight. Any time an ally within 5 squares of the devil damage the subject of the devil's mark, they can lose a healing surge to deal their healing surge worth of extra damage. They then get the Hellfire effect (save ends), which makes all creatures except the subject of the mark invisible to them, and deals them damage if they damage any of those unmarked creatures.

Simon Gill

That sounds interesting - but it will encourage the evil party to keep attacking the dragonpope rather than the good party.

BESW

Right.

The evil party's win condition is to kill the dragonpope, which will trigger the good party getting a mid-combat extended rest.

My only requirement for this battle is that the dragonpope die.

So getting that out of the way fast is good.

Also, when the devil is killed, whoever gets the killing blow will automatically be marked and all allies will get a similar effect for free (no surge expenditure) targeting the killer.

Simon Gill

ahhhh, I thought the evil party were intended to keep the good party from interfering with the devil while it killed the pope.

BESW

No, that'd take away from the agency of the PCs.

The dragonpope and the devil exist to enable the PCs.

Simon Gill

That sounds so sensible when you write it down :P

BESW

12:36 PM

Earlier today I said a common pitfall for GMs is to give the PCs cool things to look at and cool people to meet, rather than cool things to do and cool roles to fulfil.

I was speaking from personal experience, and now I try to remember that everything I make is for the PCs to be at the center of.

Simon Gill

mmmm, it is confused slightly by having two groups of PCs.

BESW

12:47 PM

@SimonGill Yeah, I'm kinda giving up on anything like balance.

Simon Gill

Well, it certainly sounds like a fun boost to damage for the evil party.

BESW

The devil also has a power that lets it create temporary spires and blocks of solid fire that can hover in midair, creating stairs and platforms for its allies to reaching flying targets like dragons.

Simon Gill

@BESW That's definitely cool and a good way to aid his group.

BESW

Meanwhile the dragonpope can give an ally flying for 1 round, at-will.

(Wing magic)

His tail can flick enemies away, or give an ally a free charge attack in the same way.

Simon Gill

Sounds good so far

BESW

12:55 PM

I've actually got the Golden One pretty much done.

Five body parts, each with their own turn in the round and a fairly simple set of options for buffing allies.

Then the devil is only about half-done. She'll get three turns per round as a single creature.

But she's a boss-type so she'll have a lot of actions.

Simon Gill

That is a lot of actions.

BESW

Well, the Golden One gets a total of FIVE turns per round, so the devil needs to be able to keep up.

Simon Gill

Ouch, yeah.

BESW

I'm balancing it by giving each part of the Golden One basically a choice of two standard action powers, whereas each of the devil's three turns gives her a full complement of boss-level choices.

Simon Gill

1:12 PM

That works (I guess).

BESW

It should.

There are gonna be so many variables running around...

Simon Gill

Huge huge numbers.

Somebody is gonna die, at least.

BESW

The Golden One's breath weapon gives radiant vulnerability, and weapons can be tempered in the silver flames illuminating his cavern to make all their attacks radiant.

Simon Gill

Are you going to be able to track all of this?

BESW

I'm expecting the player to track most of it.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

1:28 PM

I like having players track things.

I just recently added hit sections to our groups character sheets. So basically, each body part has a range of numbers written, so when I attack them, I can say, "I hit you in your 3", and they'll know it's the left leg.

So no more looking at tables in my documents, now the players know themselves.

Saves some time every turn.

Novian

6:27 PM

Quick and dumb question Can you use a free action then full round attack in D&D 3.5?

Simon Gill

6:42 PM

@Novian Of course - why wouldn't you be able to?

Zachiel

@brian @besw yes it was that game. Nobody cares if an acrobat has a mantle or not in my P&P game. Nobody plays an acrobat. They all play hardened veterans (except maybe for the gnome druid. His background is more or less "I'm a monster! Rawr!"). But can you please stop calling it silly? It's like you're offending me because I play it if you didn't realize.

Zachiel

7:46 PM

@SimonGill Button masher? Which buttons? I just click my mouse and the zealadin works all by itself. XD

Simon Gill

9:58 PM

@Zachiel The left mouse button :P

BESW

10:23 PM

@evilscary Hi!

Ravn

10:59 PM

Does anyone know if there's an item like binoculars in D&D 4.0?

BESW

Eyes of the Eagle: You gain a +3 item bonus to Perception checks. When spotting creatures or phenomena 20 or more squares away from you, the bonus increases by 2. In addition, you have normal visual acuity at a range of 5 squares. For example, an inscription or parchment 5 squares away from you can be read as if it was held up close.

Goggles of the Hawk: You can make Perception checks to notice or examine targets within your line of sight, with no penalty for distance.

@Ravn Either of those suffice?

Transcript for