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5:02 PM
@jokerdino heh.
@Seth Your name is not related to Sith, right?
lol, No.
Cu Sith, specifically.
Seth sounds so close to how we say when someone died.
Ah I see.
Some day I would like to pick up Bible and read through it.
5:06 PM
Is it final that you're going to run in the election?
On another note, G+ is now number 2 after Facebook.
people seem to think it is... final I mean.
@Seth No.
No, it is related to Sith. His heart is Dark. Dark as Vaders cloak.
I think I am actually going to my home town in the two/three weeks we are having election.
5:08 PM
@jrg >:)
And well, no computer and internet back there.
So, even if I want to run, I probably won't.
Ah, I see.
I guess it takes more than just pasting a nomination...
I heard you are running. Good luck!
that's not final either, but thanks!
I think you should give it a try.
You have a much better chance than I did last year.
5:11 PM
i'm taking bets once the nominations close. ;)
@jokerdino people keep telling me that...
Q: Importance of 'href' attribute within an <a>

ZubzobI am aware of the 'content is king' seo rule, but I'm also wondering whether empty <a> HTML elements is a relatively big downside regarding SEO. To be more precise and actually cut to the chase, I want to use this javascript plugin http://kirkas.ch/ascensor/#/Home for a site. As you can ob...

lol? --^
@jrg Haha, I am sure you would have a better idea of who would make it. ;)
@Seth You know, it never hurts.
nope. i have no insider info.
yeah right :P
@jokerdino no it doesn't. I just need to figure out problems on my end.
@Seth Problems? That sounds .. not right.
5:14 PM
no problems per se... but you know what I mean.
That is a serious problem though.
things that would prevent me from running (not exactly no internet).
Not having computers and net.. :O
You know... I think that would almost be nice for a little while...
perspectives, perspectives.
Dec 30 '12 at 2:47, by jrg
ok, at the risk of sounding silly, the answer to winning mod elections is to write a few miles of text, and then trim it down so you hit the limit. er, something like that.
5:16 PM
Funnily enough, I was trying to console myself saying the same.
@jrg I thought you knew about the 1200 character limit
@jrg :O
Had been around since the SU elections IIRC.
I am not a writer... at all.
Heh, you don't need to write stuff. Dont worry.
somewhere i had a rant about turning into me.
5:18 PM
I won't, I won't... :/
I would suggest picking up all the good stuff from the previous nominations across a variety of SE elections.
Is there a canonical question about 12.10 and unity (now forced 3d) being slow on older hardware?
you stole my idea
@gertvdijk I could never find one.
@Seth No, I am giving you one.
5:19 PM
lol :D
@gertvdijk yes...
three more votes and I pass @fossfreedom on the leaderboards :D
Q: How do I enable llvmpipe rendering in Unity?

Mr GreebI've been looking at other questions, but none seem to answer my query. The closest I got gave me information about a ppa for 12.04. My computer's battery life is suffering under Ubuntu 12.10. I imagine the performance will be better if I use LLVMPipe, as it is aimed at lower end computers. How d...

is that it?
Jun 28 '12 at 20:16, by jrg
I hit 2K, had a rep recalc, ended up losing like 60 rep. I was floored. Then I took my 2 month break, came back and was like "screw it, rep is for children". :P
Jun 28 '12 at 20:16, by jrg
the moral of that story is folks: Don't be a JRG. You end up being a moderator.
and i think the context was @Seth hitting the rep cap and then getting a recalc.
no, no. The leaderboards for voters
5:22 PM
@jrg No, I mean more of a question: "How come Ubuntu 12.10 is so slow on my older pc compared to 12.04?"
@gertvdijk oh. uh, don't think we have one.
whelp, I'm out for now folks!
@jrg I'm thinking I misunderstood what you where saying...
Hey everyone
@AmithKK night
5:36 PM
Just 2 minutes into compiling a kernel my HP $3000 Elitebook already starts to smell:
Physical id 0: +99.0°C
Ouch burn.
hate it when you can't use your device to the fullest just because they designed the hardware the wrong way :(
what do you mean 'the wrong way'?
Mouth where your belly should be.
@shookees well, clearly, the design of this machine can't handle 100% CPU usage
5:39 PM
bigger fan?
@mateo_salta it's a laptop...
oh a laptop... live in an igloo?
Physical id 0: +104.0°C (high = +87.0°C, crit = +105.0°C)
if I'm offline in a moment, you know why
just 1°C to go before kernel shuts it down.
dang. i freak out if mine gets to 80C.
^^^^ Same here.
Mine shuts down at 90 C though.
5:43 PM
I keep mine under 120F
How much is that?
that only happens when I resume from suspend :(
the most I like it at is 60C when doing a alot
Do you have an exhaust fan or something?
Mine right now is at 60C with Firefox open.
5:46 PM
the fans on this go up to 6000 rpm (mac book pro)
@user1930341 Please include more information as I asked in this comment: askubuntu.com/questions/247861/…
I dont think that pings the user.
I heard the icore processors get hotter and can work alright at higher temps, so that might be the case for some.
Unless you use the superping.
@jokerdino why not?
5:49 PM
For you to ping a user, he needs to have a chat account.
And check this particular chat room at least once in the last three days.
I had a talk before a few weeks ago and this should work for every low-rep user including the ones without a chat account (will look up that).
Or you get a mod to use the superping.
It's frustrating to see users updating their questions with other information than you asked for...
6:01 PM
Hey, @jrg can I bother you with some doubts in AskDifferent?
@ign doubts?
i'm confused.
oh, i see it.
6:25 PM
I hate this AU behaviour. I click "flag" for a question, then "belongs on meta", then it seems I've voted-to-close this question being offtopic...
Q: How can I attach a log file to my question?

sabinedollI have posted a question: LibreOffice causes desktop to flicker/crash I searched my computer for log files and found one large file with various x-session errors. Is it important to post this file, might it be helpful, and how do I attach it to my post? Thank you!

@gertvdijk That is how migration (for example, from Ask Ubuntu to Ask Ubuntu Meta) works. The question is closed. Then it can be migrated. When there is a migration option available to the community when flagging or voting to close, and enough votes select a target site, it is migrated automatically. Without closing, there is no migration.
To put it another way: you are closing it as off-topic because it is off-topic for Ask Ubuntu. It's on topic for another site: Ask Ubuntu Meta.
@EliahKagan ah! thanks for clarifying that!
Q: How to figure out GRUB2's menu output

BorrajaXI have just updated a remote machine which is running Ubuntu Server 12.04. I have only access through SSH and now it's asking for a reboot. I'm guessing a new kernel was installed. I need to make it boot in a very specific kernel, otherwise it will just hang. Is there any way to check (from the c...

6:52 PM
UDS-S dates announced: Oakland CA, USA, 6th May – 9th May 2013 uds.ubuntu.com
I need to update my passport. Hm
I'll apply this cycle.
I want to too.
Need to update passport, get visa, buy tickets and apply for sponsorship.
nonono. update passport, apply for sponsorship, have your visa stuff filled out, but don't send it in until you get a yay or nay from Canonical.
Ah right.
I got the order messed up.
6:57 PM
well, actually, i don't know.
whats the wait time normally for a US visa? that's a good question.
It could take quite long for my case.
@jrg I think i would ask one of the UDS stalwarts about the order in which I should do things.
ok, that works.
and they've really simplified the sponsorship application.
I have just about 3 months to get everything in order. Yikes.
At least there is an US embassy in my city.
What type of Visa would I be applying for? o.O
no clue.
7:41 PM
Q: How do the various gnome flavours use the config resources they do or do not share?

eyolfOne of the things that has kept me away from gnome until now is the lack of a common, central place for configuration. This was bad in the old days, but after the advent of compiz, mutter and dconf, and the unofficial tweak utils (gnome-tweak, ubuntu-tweak, unsettings, etc.), it's even more confu...

repeating my call from yesterday: this question deserves a few upvotes
8:12 PM
Hello all !
I'm having a problem install RatPoison on Lubuntu. I made apt-get install ratpoison but it's not added on the wm list on logging screen. When I make Ctrl+Alt+F1 and exec ratpoison i have error message "cannot open display"
8:30 PM
Q: How can I attach a log file to my question?

sabinedollI have posted a question: LibreOffice causes desktop to flicker/crash I searched my computer for log files and found one large file with various x-session errors. Is it important to post this file, might it be helpful, and how do I attach it to my post? Thank you!

8:54 PM
@EliahKagan I'm around(ish) for the next 2 hours or so
@Gilles Hi.
sorry for the lack of feedback about your tag wiki edits
I've lost the habit of reviewing edits without being able to improve them
@Gilles That OK--some of the relevant issues were discussed here.
@Gilles The solution is for to get 20k rep. :)
and gotten into the habit of quick quick reject or someone else will blindly approve from the SO queue
@EliahKagan can I get a transfer from U&L?
@Gilles Heh.
Well, if lots of questions you've answered get migrated....
Regarding my questions from my comments...I am guessing that your reasoning for this may be similar or identical to what Oli said here (and in comments). That seems like it may be the prevailing view on AU. If your reasoning was different though, please let me know.
@Gilles For that, was your reasoning similar to this?
the original excerpt wasn't too bad. You can't really claim copyvio or plagiarism for a short, descriptive sentence like this.
@EliahKagan oh, wait a sec, I hadn't seen that thread
@Gilles In an academic context, I think that quite clearly is plagiarism. But as Oli said, apparently our standards are different: "...we want the best. If that means an attributed (or not) work from elsewhere, that's better than a poorly worded original work."
(Oli meant that as applied to this sort of situation, I do not think he is saying that copying without attribution is OK here in general.)
so yes, I agree with both Oli and Lekensteyn
Gnome Shell sucks so hard. I am sorry I logged into it.
9:03 PM
take the wireshark one: you can't claim plagiarism for the old excerpt. No, not in an academic context or otherwise. This is the most direct way of expressing a basic idea.
If I need to express that 2+2=4 in an academic paper, I'll write 2+2=4. Sure, someone's written it before. That doesn't make it plagiarism.
you have to reach the level of creative content to have plagiarism
@Gilles You're right that 2+2=4 is not plagiarism. Are you actually saying that the old excerpt there was really that simple?
@EliahKagan yes
“Wireshark is” is a very common way of starting excerpts
“network protocol analyzer” is the usual name for this category of programs
That "Wireshark is a network protocol analyzer for Unix and Windows" is as simple as 2+2=4? I'm not taking exception to "Wireshark is." There are probably hundreds of ways of saying that briefly; that's just one.
“for Unix and Windows” is the most direct way of expressing what platforms it's for
@Gilles "network protocol analyzer" is one of several common names.
9:06 PM
The only originality here is choosing to mentiion “for Unix and Windows”
I'm having a problem installing RatPoison on Lubuntu. I made apt-get install ratpoison but it's not added on the wm list on logging screen. When I make Ctrl+Alt+F1 and exec ratpoison i have error message "cannot open display". What should I do ?
@Gilles Actually, that's not even correct. It's a common misuse of "Unix."
@EliahKagan um, no, it's correct
ws runs on Linux, Solaris and BSD
so it runs on any unix that matters nowadays
@Gilles And Linux is Unix?
The current version reads: "Wireshark is a program for capturing and analyzing network traffic."
@EliahKagan sure
9:08 PM
That's not the original and not what I wrote. There are many ways to say that. When a work is entirely composed of unquoted, uncited material from a single unidentified source, in an academic context that is definitely plagiarism.
As for copyright, that's tricky and not really what I'm worried about. There's certainly a good argument for something so short not being a copyright violation. As Oli pointed out, fair use in the US doesn't explicitly rely on attribution. However, in practice (I am not a laywer, this is not legal advice) courts often use attribution as a significant factor informing the four factors in the balancing test.
SE is a for-profit company that by its very nature competes with other providers of documentation. I think SE is on very shaky ground here... but I'm not doing them any favors by trying to stand up for them in an area where they're perfectly capable of standing up for themselves. My interest in this is quite unrelated to copyright.
I have no idea what point you're trying to make now
I was hoping a moderator would be here?
@Seth we've got a couple of 10k's and a chat mod, if it helps
Q: Which options do I have to run Android apps on Ubuntu?

MountainX FYI: This is not a duplicate Questions such as the following one are not duplicates. This question is more sophisticated in that it seeks a recommendation of the best method for accomplishing the goal. The existing questions fail to address that. Can I run Android apps on Ubuntu? The...

9:14 PM
And jrg!
anything need to be done about that?
When are the new elections by the way? Last year they were 31 Jan 2012.
@gertvdijk askubuntu.com/election/3
Best is relative. Therefore, the only way to figure anything out is to actually have access to their computer to test it.
@Seth ah!
9:15 PM
@Seth restore the “possible duplicate link”
tell the guy that it's up to him to choose the best method for his needs
rollback then?
@Seth Or just add the possible duplicate banner back.
ah, @Gilles did it.
@EliahKagan As in manually edit it in?
He just did a rollback
Either way works. Maybe I'll add back in some of the new material (while keeping the banner of course).
9:17 PM
@jrg right, I see that.
Also, you might want to migrate this to Unix and Linux
@Gilles I'm not sure further discussion will get us anywhere right now--and I feel pretty good in terms of understanding where you're coming from, so I feel some closure here. But to clarify: You said it's not plagiarism and not a copyright violation. I disagree with the first (at least by academic standards - as I said it appears the expectations are different here); the copyright thing wasn't (and isn't) my concern but I'm not totally sure that's ok either.
flag if you feel it's appropriate. and do keep in mind a high-rep user from U&L is in the room, partying right now. ;)
@EliahKagan I'm also familiar with academic standards, and I assure you that excerpt cannot be considered plagiarism
@jrg ah, yeah. Totally forgot ;)
Yours, by the way, could be a copyvio (presumably inadvertent) if it wasn't so short
@jrg I think I've told you before: if it's an ok question for AU except for not being about Ubuntu as defined on AU, feel free to migrate
9:20 PM
@Gilles you did, i was just being a little pedantic with @Seth. :)
@Gilles Another difference, comparing to "2+2=4" is that when you say that without attribution, nobody thinks you came up with it. No one will cite you as the source of it. That doesn't cause people to believe false things about who came up with that. It doesn't actively obstruct efforts to determine the origin of "2+2=4." It's absurd to compare "2+2=4" to that tag wiki excerpt.
Another thing: that sentence is from the project description
Project descriptions are advertising material. They are meant to be copied, to spread the word about the project
I can cite as many Universities' guides to plagiarism as you want, saying even short excerpts must be quoted. (Here's one.) But I'm not sure that will convince you; because you seem to be arguing that the issue isn't length, but the specific nature of the particular text. (And there may be some merit to that view.)
@Gilles That sounds like a copyright argument. And a good one. Irrelevant to the plagiarism issue though.
Including parts of the official project description is squarely not copyvio, and is only plagiarism if you claim that they are original to you
@EliahKagan plagiarism only applies if you claim the material is original
@Gilles Tag wikis and their excerpts are claimed to be original. They have copyright notices and license information associated with them.
9:26 PM
Universities are highly sensitive to what is original and what isn't
A tag wiki is very different
Tag wikis don't even have author lists. The only place authors are listed is in the revision history
@Gilles Well as I said, I am only claiming it is plagiarism by academic standards. Are you agreeing?
@Gilles The revision history sounds like an author list to me.
@EliahKagan no, because I disagree that by contributing a tag wiki edit you are claiming that it is original to you
especially if that's in an excerpt, and there is an attribution in the tag wiki body
@Gilles The claim is that it is original to Ask Ubuntu. It's actually the community as a whole that is being drawn into this.
in fact, if there is an attribution in the tag wiki body, that's good enough to make the excerpt non-plagiarised
@Gilles Most of the time people see an excerpt, they don't see the body. It's been established on meta that excerpts should be considered to stand alone.
9:28 PM
it might not be good enough for copyvio though
@EliahKagan but they don't see the author either. Hence it matters for copyright but not for plagiarism
am i missing something? did we get a DMCA takedown notice?
@jrg No, I rejected an edit of Eliah's
where he replaced a sentence from the project description by a sentence from wikipedia
@jrg No, we're good. It's a pedantic argument. My view is in the minority, and I am willing to accept that my views appear to differ with those in the majority here.
9:29 PM
How can I find the list packages that come in a meta package?
@Seth Just look up the meta package at packages.ubuntu.com
@Seth So...what's the problem? Or do you need indirect dependencies too?
@Seth Oh, sorry, no, you need to look at the dependencies.
@EliahKagan so the dependencies are everything it comes with?
9:31 PM
A metapackage is a package that doesn't provide significant files, but pulls in other packages as dependencies. The metapackage exists for its dependencies. The actual deb is tiny, but the dependencies are often huge.
VTC: Offtopic: Bug?
I see. OK thanks.
Q: PHPStorm on reinstalled Ubuntu issues

Teo.skCurrently I reinstalled my laptop, re-formatted the disc, and replaced Ubuntu 11.10 with 12.04 LTS. I started having problems with my PHPStorm: the default cursor icon is blinking in "overwrite mode", but the mode is actually insert, it's really confusing. if I make a syntax error in the code, ...

@EliahKagan This is true.
@EliahKagan However, there are metapackages out there which are small in terms of deps.
9:32 PM
@TheLordofTime rare. very rare.
but yes, it is technically possible.
@jrg Only when you work with my metapackages... :P
I see. Thanks @jrg @EliahKagan.
then its common :p
@TheLordofTime Small in terms of size or number?
@EliahKagan size.
9:33 PM
@TheLordofTime Seems like a bug to me. I'd close it as OT for that, with some bug reporting info if helpful.
ok, it's rare in the ubuntu archive. outside of that, i don't know how it works.
i have a lot of metapackages in other repositories i run which pull in my commonly-isntalled bundled stuff.
@jrg :p
@EliahKagan i already VTC:OT'd it.
it just needs more votes :)
also since i don't know if phpstorm's in the repos (I've never heard of it), i didn't link to "How to Report a Bug in ubuntu"
@TheLordofTime I'm out of close votes for the day. I usually am, these days. :)
phpstorm isn't in the repos.
you have to download it from jetbrains
@Gilles Wait a minute... what's this about wikipedia?
9:35 PM
@jrg then i was right to not link to how to report a bug, and rather said that they should report the bug to whomever makes phpstorm :P
ALL HAIL MY BUGSKNOWLEDGE *dies by lightning from above*
> Wireshark is a free and open-source packet analyzer. (Wikipedia)
watchlists that page on wikipedia
@Gilles Is it wrong?
@Gilles that's like saying "Ubuntu is a free and open-source linux distribution".
@Gilles And you're saying "FOSS packet analyzer" should be considered an exact duplicate of that?
9:36 PM
There are only so many ways of writing something THAT SHORT.
I'm sure this was a coincidence
@jrg My point exactly!
@jrg Yes, Gilles is not accusing me of anything.
duckduckgo.com/… < i mean, that's some website i've never heard of that has it.
and it's all over ehow. ew. encrypted.google.com/…
i now feel dirty for using that sentence.
@jrg Yeah, Gilles is comparing my wording to Wikipedia, to show that there are not as many ways of expressing the idea as I thought they were. While I don't agree with the general claim about what necessarily does and does not constitute plagiarism based on length and degree of creativity, I do see you (er, he) have a point there. This is a particularly good point considering that it's highly likely I looked at that article within minutes of composing that edit, while googling wireshark.
when i'm able to select, then right-click and then google/bing/etc it, and there is a result that has it word-for-word from a site i've heard of (so wikipedia, ehow or something of that nature), i'm very likely to reject it.
9:39 PM
Speaking of meta packages, Debian is very weird. I can't remove totem without removing the entire desktop.
Whoa I get a star so fast, yay!
@JasonBourne Don't get used to it, i get stars just for saying things like...
@JasonBourne All the metapackage's dependencies marked as automatically installed, so removing the metapackage will cause them to get autoremoved?
(although that's a lie in this case)
yeah, I can't remove epiphany without removing Gnome-Core
9:41 PM
@jrg Sometimes those sites copy from us though. Often actually.
@EliahKagan sometimes. it's rare though.
that the site copies from the suggested edit before the suggested edit gets approved.
@jrg Oh, yeah, no, I'm not saying that's happening.
@EliahKagan Well, when I purge totem I can't run an autoremove immediately. I am not too sure about the details. I am not looking for a solution, just saying.
@jrg Although, sometimes the same author posts the same thing in more than one place.
@EliahKagan there are always edge cases.
9:43 PM
@JasonBourne Well I definitely don't want you to run autoremove immediately, as that might get rid of important stuff. You could run this though: apt-get -s autoremove
One thing Windows gets right is the dependencies. You can remove anything you want without removing something else, usually, LOL.
@Gilles You seem to be saying differently here. (Or are you saying a citation in the body is sufficient to make the excerpt not plagiarism, but not sufficient to fulfill cc-wiki's attribution requirements?)
@EliahKagan yes. WP content requires a link which is impossible in an excerpt
plagiarism isn't an issue if there is an attribution in the tag body
@JasonBourne Yes, but this is in part achieved by letting you remove dependencies from under what depends on them, and then experiencing great breakage.
but this is moot because it's extremely rare for Wikipedia to have a sentence that's just the right amount of information for a tag wiki excerpt
9:46 PM
@Gilles Yes, I agree with that.
@EliahKagan But I have removed something on Windows before that caused something different to be removed, weird right? But it did happen! Just once. Some codecs I thing.
does everything i say get autostarred or something?
@TheLordofTime no
@TheLordofTime no
Do you have a sockpuppet for starring?
9:47 PM
i only asked because the last 3 things i said got starred :P
@TheLordofTime i was just using my sense of humor.
@Gilles What if there's a link in the full wiki (tag body)? Doesn't that meet the requirements? If not, that means the excerpt and full wiki are separate works. In that case, citation in one doesn't meet academic plagiarism standards for the other, either.
@Seth the project he was for was abandoned. :(
9:49 PM
should probably nuke 'em, since my API wrapper didn't get finished.
@seth Are you still in high school or something?
@jrg I just realized abandoned has the word ban in it. Heh.
this is amusing?
@JasonBourne why do you ask?
@jrg No. Only because the topic is sock puppets.
9:49 PM
@Seth Oh, just wondering about your age. =)
i see.
I have a paper bag puppet :P
@Seth So your age is a secret?
@JasonBourne maybe someday, when the room isn't so popular, we will discuss that.
Although I actually don't think "jrg's Sockpuppet" can be a sockpuppet. A sockpuppet is a false online persona. If it announces itself as a sockpuppet, it can't be a sockpuppet, can it?
9:51 PM
@Seth OK, I will keep my secrets too...
Unless it's pretending to be some other sockpuppet....
i can uncover a huge sock ring on meta.stackoverflow.
there's like 5 mods with them.
@jrg how can you tell?
@jrg For what purpose do they exist?
9:51 PM
there was a jeff atwood sock on SO 8-12 months ago.
@JasonBourne ;)
I regularly upvote some people who regularly upvote me. But we are no in cahoots.
@Seth links, posts announcing that "i'm a sock, may i exist if i have a useful and valid purpose"
We are just mutual admirers so to speak.
i think jeff's sock was destroyed.
9:52 PM
@jrg heh
@JasonBourne the system doesn't care :/
nope he's still around.
@Seth No, it does. Mods can see some weird voting patterns.
what I meant was, the system doesn't care that you aren't in cahoots.
9:54 PM
What if I create a second account and use it to downvote my own posts? Not all of them. Like 1-2 per day. Is that allowed? :P
The current system is flawed IMAO.
I agree.
I think there should not be downvotes, answers and questions should be given equal points, and one can only upvote another at most 5 times a day.
@JasonBourne Why should there not be downvotes?
9:55 PM
That way, there will be no revenge downvoting, no need to check for sockpuppeting, and no need to use human judgement to determine if there is vote fraud.
@JasonBourne If more users are required to give more rep, wouldn't that encourage more sockpuppetry?
@EliahKagan Hmm, you are right. We need to think again...
Or maybe (just maybe) a user looked at your profile and decided to look at your questions/answers and really likes your contributions. But nawww, no one would EVER do this. — Thomas Eding Apr 23 '12 at 19:36
that's what I don't like about the system
@Seth What if someone looks at your profile and finds they dislike your posts? Doesn't that go both ways?
Wow @eliah has a sharp mind!
9:59 PM
@EliahKagan no. downvoting is not for "I dislike" except on meta sites. Downvoting is for just plain bad answers. If my answer is bad then downvote it, if you don't agree you don't downvote, but you don't upvote.

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