English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

TRiG

7:00 PM

@KitFox Elaine Paige has been famous for a lot longer and (as far as I know) didn't get there through a talent show.

KitFox

Chicken on a raft.

user19161

@Cerberus Just heard her for the first time, very suitable for musicals.

KitFox

@TRiG That was worth it for Simon's expression when she started singing.

Or whatever the asshole's name is.

Cerberus

@JasperLoy Ouch.

user19161

What happened to Simon and Paula, no more right?

TRiG

7:03 PM

►

Elaine Paige (doing a musical).

Robusto

Rule of thumb: single narq votes are usually FumbleFingers.

KitFox

She had to adjust the mic herself?

What a crap production.

TRiG

@KitFox It's rather fun, actually. I enjoy watching the edited highlights of talent shows. I don't enjoy watching people embarrass themselves, which seems to be the main point of the shows, but the few good ones I enjoy watching.

user19161

There are too many not constructive votes me thinks.

Cerberus

The hope to become famous is the ultimate (petit-)bourgeois ideal.

KitFox

7:06 PM

I already am famous. It's rather disappointing.

Cerberus

There you go.

user19161

Many people can sing like these stars. They happen to get into the industry and then become successful.

KitFox

I think I could sing that better than Elaine Paige.

Cerberus

Let's hope celebrity "culture" will die with television.

user19161

Say Paul Potts. He isn't really an opera singer, but he fills a niche for popular opera.

TRiG

7:07 PM

-9

Q: So long hats, and thanks for all the fish!

When I get back to Stack Overflow next week the hats will be gone, and we will be back to our normal scheduled routines. Just wanted to have this opportunity to say -- so long. Anybody want to make some hat related haikus?

Cerberus

There have always been idolised artists.

As in the Roman Empire.

user19161

Now Andrea Bocelli is different, he is a really good singer.

Cerberus

And courtesans in China.

TRiG

@Cerberus Yes, but mass media makes celebrity culture easier.

Cerberus

Yeah, and more...massive.

More visible, and more commercial.

Brave New World.

user19161

7:10 PM

When I was in high school, I wanted to be an opera singer. But I never took that road.

TRiG

@Cerberus Saw a brilliant free production of The Tempest in a park in Dublin last summer.

user19161

@cerb Why the sudden interest in Susan?

user19161

@tri Yesterday my internet was disrupted while we were chatting.

Cerberus

@TRiG Great! Those are the best.

@JasperLoy It's not sudden, and it is barely an interest...

25 mins ago, by Cerberus

Related to Ed's pattycake cats.

user19161

@Cerberus Hehe. Of course I know you will never fall for her, for obvious reasons...

TRiG

7:13 PM

@Cerberus The chap who played Ariel really was a spirit of the air. He was painted blue, with white feathers on his wrists, and he never stopped moving. Lightfooted. Playful. (Also cute.)

Cerberus

@TRiG And semi-nude, no doubt?

KitFox

@JasperLoy She's much too old and lives too far away. Plus, she has cats.

Robusto

Is it possible to do an NGram search for phrases that contain commas?

TRiG

@Cerberus Topless, with blue paint (daubed: he didn't look like a Smurf) and white jeans.

Cerberus

1

Q: Commas in Google nGram

How can I include a "comma" in a Google nGram search? My problem is that I want to search for phrases like, "Yes, I do ." but Google nGrams uses commas to break up query terms, so it returns a comparison of the phrases "Yes" and "I do .". (My apologies if this question seems off-topic. I ask h...

support ngrams

@TRiG That is something.

Was it cold?

TRiG

7:17 PM

@Cerberus Not particularly, no. It was the end of the Summer. Can't recall the exact date.

Cerberus

Then there's no excuse. Spirits don't wear jeans, off with them!

Robusto

@Cerberus Interesting. I'm interested in the "now can they" question because I think the now belongs after the comma, not before it. I'm also wondering what part of speech that now functions as.

Cerberus

What question? Let me see...

Robusto

1

Q: Using the adverb "now" with a tag question

1- People can hardly motivate themselves now, CAN they? 2- People can hardly motivate themselves now, CAN'T they? Number 1 is the correct answer. However, usage of "Can't they " in number 2 can also be correct as it takes the tag question format but due to "now" being in the sentence it is wron...

question-tags

It's kind of an interjection. If you leave the now before the comma, it may be understood to be a sentence adverb modifying people who can hardly motivate themselves.

"You don't really care if I succeed, now do you?" vs. "You don't really care if I succeed now, do you?"

Cerberus

Yes, either an interjection or a conjunction.

TRiG

7:20 PM

@Cerberus I certainly wouldn't have objected.

user19161

@KitFox Interestingly, all three sort of apply to someone I knew recently who is rather dear to me.

Cerberus

@Robusto: I agree. This is the same now as in: At last Aeneas and Dido made love in that cave. Now, she wasn't a virgin, but this still made a deep impression upon her. — Cerberus 52 secs ago

@Robusto No, two commas it should be.

KitFox

@JasperLoy Indeed. pretends she is puzzled How curious.

user19161

@Cerberus WTF is this.

Robusto

From Risky Business: Rutherford "You've done a lot of solid work here, but it's just not Ivy League, now is it?"

TRiG

7:22 PM

@Cerberus I like that. Because if you misread the meaning of now in that passage, by failing to observe the comma, the still makes no sense at all.

Cerberus

@TRiG Next time we shall take care of that! By the way, does Irish/English theatre have as much nudity as Dutch theatre?

@TRiG Oh haha, yes! That didn't even occur to me.

TRiG

@Cerberus Probably not. Certainly not at free showings in the Iveagh Gardens, which are, after all, a public place.

Cerberus

Hmm.

user19161

@KitFox Haha, you don't know this person. I wasn't referring to you. =)

Cerberus

I'm actually not sure whether a Dutch company would forego the regular nudity just because it was in a park.

Perhaps they would.

KitFox

7:24 PM

@JasperLoy I guessed as much, since I have no cats.

TRiG

@JasperLoy How do you know who Kit knows? The two of you might have mutual friends without realising it.

user19161

@TRiG OMG!

Cerberus

But inside, there's always lots of nudity, both sexes, usually, but men more often than women, or so it seems.

TRiG

@Cerberus Makes note to visit The Netherlands soon.

@Cerberus !!!

user19161

@TRiG But I seriously doubt we know well someone who knows us both well.

Cerberus

7:25 PM

Is it not so on your fair island?

TRiG

There was a question asked at Toastmasters last night: Should Superman have worn boxer shorts?

Cerberus

> ... but it's just not Ivy League, now, is it?

@Robusto Or:

> ... but it's just not Ivy League—now, is it?

user19161

@Cerberus Are you trying to excite me?

TRiG

@Cerberus No. I don't go to the theatre that often, and have never yet been to production which included nudity. I'm sure they exist.

@JasperLoy Both of us, I think.

Cerberus

@JasperLoy Really, Jasper, no actual attempt is required to excite you!

user19161

7:27 PM

@Cerberus Well said, I like your compliment!

Cerberus

@TRiG Oh, that's odd. Shakespeare will include nudity here. Anything, really—let's say 70 %? Across all genres.

@JasperLoy Let it be taken in the spirit in which it was given.

KitFox

Yes, yes, take it. Take it.

shakes head to clear vapors

TRiG

@KitFox Is that a quote from your latest writing?

KitFox

No. I'm just practicing.

You want to read the other stuff?

user19161

@TRiG Wanna change your pic, just for fun? I remember I have seen this one for 9000 years! Not that you need to.

Matt Эллен

7:30 PM

> but it's not "Ivy League now" is it?

TRiG

@KitFox I did look for a link briefly, but then gave up.

KitFox

It's not linked to my main blog. Here is the first scene.

Cerberus

trying to find nude-but-decent pictures

TRiG

@JasperLoy Shall be soonish. I have some work to do moving with webhosting and e-mail hosting, and then I'll be changing my e-mails on all sites (at which point I can give each one a different picture).

@KitFox I shall make a note of that and check it from a home computer some time this weekend.

Cerberus

KitFox

7:32 PM

@TRiG nods

user19161

@Cerberus Better stop there, before we get flagged.

Cerberus

I am stopping!

user19161

@Cerberus How is that nude?

Matt Эллен

carry on. I won't flag

KitFox

@Cerberus What is that from?

I'm not complaining.

Cerberus

7:33 PM

A play...but I don't know which one.

Toneelgroep Amsterdam.

TRiG

@JasperLoy Not nude, in any meaningful sense of the word, but quite pretty.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy he's not wearing a hat

user19161

@Cerberus Well, he is certainly not as handsome as you.

Cerberus

@JasperLoy Just posting a few actors that one can see nude on stage on a regular basis.

TRiG

@JasperLoy Heh. A while ago I was posting pictures of guys wearing less than that in the Upper Room.

Cerberus

7:34 PM

@JasperLoy I disagree! But thanks.

TRiG

(That's Christianity SE chat.)

KitFox

I'm trying to imagine why you would need nude people in a play.

user19161

@TRiG WTF did you do that?

TRiG

@JasperLoy In a deliberate effort to change the subject.

KitFox

Hahaha.

Sinner.

user19161

7:35 PM

@TRiG Hmm, I think you were just trying to be naughty.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox because otherwise the naked parts would need to be played by mannequins

Cerberus

@TRiG Haha why?

KitFox

Oh. I like that.

I don't usually go for blonds.

TRiG

in The Upper Room, Aug 18 '12 at 20:05, by TRiG

user19161

@Cerberus I really like Channing Tatum now.

KitFox

7:36 PM

@TRiG That would be so much better if he weren't wearing pants.

user19161

@KitFox I think covering a little adds to the excitement.

TRiG

@KitFox He did promise that if he won gold at the London Olympics he'd do a nude dive. Unfortunately, he didn't do that well.

(He did win gold four years earlier, in Beijing.)

KitFox

@JasperLoy Better covering then. It looks like he's wearing a diaper.

user19161

@KitFox Ah, he needs Calvin Klein.

user19161

This chat is degenerating fast!

Cerberus

7:38 PM

@TRiG Ah! And I see Wax's famous pork picture!

Yum.

TRiG

in The Upper Room, Aug 18 '12 at 20:37, by TRiG

It's not a nudist event. It just looks like one.

KitFox

I like the firmness of his features. His face looks carved.

user19161

I think we can now all be judges at Mr Universe and Ms Universe.

Cerberus

Hah.

Thank God for those bars.

user19161

...

Cerberus

7:40 PM

@KitFox So how is it in America? Nudity in plays?

TRiG

@Cerberus Yes, basically, I was having a serious discussion which was beginning to get to me. I probably should have left, but instead I grabbed an excuse to forcibly change the subject to cute divers.

KitFox

It's hardly censoring. I don't think I'd be too excited about having my cold-shrunk junk displayed for the pervs watching at home.

@Cerberus I imagine so.

Hair comes to mind.

Cerberus

@TRiG Hmm why did it get to you? The slavery thing? Genocide?

@KitFox There are speedos under those bars, no junk.

TRiG

@Cerberus Unfortunately.

KitFox

@Cerberus Tight speedos that display the junk.

Cerberus

7:42 PM

@KitFox OK I expected as much. But then why would it be different in Ireland?

KitFox

What? I don't know.

TRiG

@Cerberus Just that I've had run-ins with Peter Turner before. I'd need to reread to remind myself exactly what the problem was, but I just felt like leaving it.

Cerberus

@TRiG I thought you were replying to the genocide thing...but meh.

@TRiG Hmm yes, those things happen.

TRiG

@Cerberus I'm sure theatre nudity exists in Ireland. You might get it in small art-house theatres or somewhere. It wouldn't be a run-of-the-mill event.

Cerberus

@KitFox Trig displayed (or feigned) surprise, that's all...

@TRiG Not in mainstream, large theatres?

TRiG

7:43 PM

Remember the massive hoopla when Daniel Radcliffe appeared nude on stage?

Cerberus

It is very mainstream here.

KitFox

Pix or it didn't happen.

Cerberus

@TRiG Is that Harry Potter guy?

Was there a hoopla?

TRiG

@Cerberus I suspect that if a play contained nudity, everyone would know beforehand. If it happened unexpectedly, the audience would be a bit disturbed.

Cerberus

Not just the ordinary blowing-out-of-proportion that the press likes to do?

@TRiG Hmm. It is only expected here (though not necessarily approved of—that is, it often seems without function, we regularly mock this practice).

@KitFox I am trying to...

But it appears there are few "pervs" in theatre audiences.

TRiG

7:45 PM

Cerberus

Ah, there you go.

Matt Эллен

I remember hearing of Equus, but I don't remember there being any uproar when it played in the West End

I do ignore the news a bit too much, though

KitFox

Meh.

Robusto

My question does not concern with a phrase meaning old, rather on falling of truth. Till now, I found @coleopterist's answer somewhat acceptable to a good extent! Try like him! — Mistu4u 2 hours ago

I should be more like coleopterist. Who can divine, apparently, what falling of truth means.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен That's a contradictio in terminis.

Matt Эллен

7:51 PM

@Cerberus I should ignore the news completely?

KitFox

@Robusto At least somewhat to a good extent.

Matt Эллен

well, I could try harder I suppose

but only after this issue of New Scientits

TRiG

in The Upper Room, Aug 18 '12 at 19:29, by TRiG

@El'endiaStarman If you want embedded GIFs, how about British Olympic Diver Tom Daley taking his clothes off?

in The Upper Room, Aug 18 '12 at 19:30, by TRiG

KitFox

I've got a little issue. I have a button that's supposed to take the user back to the previous page, but it breaks for this one return...

@TRiG You posted that here yesterday, didn't you?

TRiG

@KitFox I ... I can't remember. I may have done. I recall posting it somewhere recently.

Matt Эллен

7:54 PM

if not here then somewhere else I frequent

so it must be here

TRiG

Ah. Yes. I did. Sorry.

2 days ago, by TRiG

@Robusto Well, if you'd prefer fresh Tom Daley pics ....

Matt Эллен

because you don't work with me

@KitFox where does it go instead?

Andrew Leach

@KitFox and what is the code you're using to do that?

7:56 PM

I'm not giving it a proper session variable for the return page, but I don't think it's going to be the desired behavior.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен You should ignore most of it, if it includes silly topics such as this one.

KitFox

@TRiG lmao little skinny white boy butt.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I see. Good advice.

Cerberus

@TRiG Haha wtf.

TRiG

@Cerberus Rather impressive, isn't it?

Cerberus

7:59 PM

Indeed.

He must have had lots of practice.

TRiG

> "He looks great in speedos ...."

Cerberus

Well, well.

KitFox

I don't know what to do with this stupid crap.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox flush it

KitFox

Create another effing session variable?

Robusto

8:04 PM

It doesn't have to eff.

Morning

Hola.

Hi!

I hate my job today. I like my office though.

My boss just brought me a whiteboard.

TRiG

@KitFox You can always have fun with a whiteboard.

Meysam

8:07 PM

I don't get the meaning of "States rich" in this: "he was there because he had once had his opportunity to go home to the States rich, and had not done it".

KitFox

@TRiG Anything is possible. Anything at all.

@Meysam "to go home rich"

to go home / to the States / rich

Cerberus

Verb of movement + adjective can work like that.

To come in first.

To arrive last.

Robusto

@Meysam ... to go back home (to the United States) as a rich man

KitFox

To go home to the Netherlands full of beer.

Cerberus

To emerge soaking wet.

@KitFox Yay!

Robusto

8:08 PM

@KitFox Coals to Newcastle, what?

KitFox

To thrust drunkenly in the...what? What were we talking about?

Cerberus

Looks good, huh?

Robusto

@KitFox In God We Thrust

Cerberus

However...

KitFox

Inside is a human head!

Oh.

Cerberus

8:09 PM

in The Frying Pan, 1 hour ago, by Mien

http://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/comments/15ve77/i_tried_my_hand_at_no_knead_sour‌dough_bread_ive/

KitFox

You had a big bubble there.

Cerberus

@KitFox It would fit, yes.

Not my bread.

KitFox

Reminds me of boiled heads.

I wish it hadn't.

Cerberus

Of course.

Robusto

@Cerberus Could you work at Downton Abbey?

Meysam

8:12 PM

Thank you everybody

Cerberus

@Robusto Of course I could not.

Robusto

@Cerberus If the alternative were a coal mine or a farm?

Cerberus

As the countess dowager said, when catching a new word at the dinner-table, "week-end? Week-end? What is this?".

@Robusto Couldn't do that either.

Meysam

Does "resolved" mean "decided" in here? "he was there because he had once had his opportunity to go home to the States rich, and had not done it; had rather lost his wealth, and had then in his humiliation resolved to sever all communication with his home relatives and friends, and be to them thenceforth as one dead"

Cerberus

Yes.

You know new-years's resolutions?

Robusto

8:15 PM

@Meysam Not exactly. It means decided in an aspirational sense, not an absolute sense.

David Wallace

I disagree with Robusto. Writing "decided" in place of "resolved" here would not change the meaning of the sentence in any way.

Meysam

my take is that he felt humiliated, and therefore decided to cut his communications and seem to be dead

Cerberus

That's right.

David Wallace

@Meysam correct

Cerberus

@Meysam Although appearing as "dead" need not be taken literally.

He may not actually have wanted them to think he was really dead.

Meysam

8:18 PM

@Cerberus He sort of preferred to be dead, indeed

Cerberus

It may just mean severing all connections, cutting off all contact.

KitFox

Resolved is more idealistic than decided.

Resolute, for instance.

Firm in conviction.

Robusto

@DavidWallace Well, that's a first.

@KitFox Which is why I used the term aspirational.

KitFox

@Robusto Yes. I was agreeing with you.

Cerberus

@Robusto By the way, "now-comma" is welnu in Dutch, clearly distinguished from nu "regular now".

It is like "so" or "look here, ...".

Meysam

8:24 PM

Does "half an hour apart" mean "once every half an hour"? in here: "Now and then, half an hour apart, one came across solitary log cabins of the earliest mining days, built by the first gold-miners"

What was that sleigh stuff?

KitFox

They added sleigh graphics for the winter.

Or summer if you are south of the equator.

And yes, the cabins were far enough apart that it would take about a half hour to travel between them.

Meysam

@KitFox I guessed so. Looked more like a festive feature.

@KitFox Tankio

KitFox

> Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

This is plaguing me.

@Meysam Welcome.

Meysam

@KitFox Seems more like bug

KitFox

It is a bug. A new one. On production.

I can't repro.

Robusto

8:28 PM

@Cerberus Yeah, I know that. Now, this other usage I find to be completely different.

KitFox

You think that's different, now do you?

Now you've got me doing it.

Cerberus

@Robusto This is where I would use "welnu".

KitFox

Well now, ain't that fancy?

Cerberus

@KitFox This is the same, but with a preceding clause.

@KitFox Hmm yes, it actually kind of works with "well now" too!

KitFox

Well now, I don't think so.

You think that would work, well now do you?

That's a whole nother bucket of fish.

Cerberus

8:30 PM

Not like that.

No two adverbial phrases in a row in the middle of a sentence.

KitFox

Come now, what are you playing at?

Cerberus

Also quite similar.

Robusto

@Cerberus Too bad we're speaking Engrish here.

KitFox

Hear now, what's all this about similarity?

Cerberus

@KitFox You are quite entertaining when your grammar is restricted.

KitFox

8:31 PM

Huh. Is that "here"or "hear"?

Cerberus

@Robusto But barely, if you use "well, now".

@KitFox No doubt hear, but...

Robusto

@Cerberus I am feeling well now.

Cerberus

I voel me wel nu.

KitFox

You're feeling well, now are you?

Cerberus

Not entirely impossible.

@KitFox Can you pleeeeez add a comma there?

KitFox

8:33 PM

Where?

I don't do superfluous commas.

Cerberus

You are feeling well, now, are you?

KitFox

Ick.

Why comma when you don't have to?

Cerberus

I feel it is like however.

However, you like her.

However you like her.

Andrew Leach

@Cerberus What is the difference between that and "You are feeling well now, are you?"?

Robusto

@KitFox Oh, you don't, don't you?

KitFox

8:34 PM

Howsomever you like her.

Cerberus

In this specific case, the comma is really helpful.

KitFox

Over a barrel. On the floor.

In the backseat with her feet out the door.

Cerberus

@AndrewLeach If we assume that that is correct, then it would be regular now, as in "you are feeling well at the moment, are you?". But then I would expect "aren't you?". Argg...

Andrew Leach

How is it helpful? I don't see much difference wherever it goes.

Matt Эллен

are you feeling "well now" are you?

Andrew Leach

8:35 PM

@Cerberus Sarcasm. The tag matches the main verb.

Cerberus

I don't know.

unresolved look

KitFox

What can't you find, you stupid codez?