English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

cornbread ninja

2:26 AM

sighs, buries chat

tchrist

I see the questions have just gotten worserer and worserer.

Mitch

2:49 AM

@cornbreadninja I can do it, too. Watch...

cornbread ninja

@Mitch not if I watch, you can't.

@tchrist sorcerer and worchestershire

Mitch

dammit!

cornbread ninja

._.

tchrist

This has nothing to do with the English language, which makes it off-topic. It has to do with the culture clash of fawning toadies versus people who speak more honestly — which makes it not constructive. Just because we find kow-towing to be deeply insulting to both parties has nothing to do with the English language. — tchrist 5 mins ago

@Listenever Obsequious is one of the more careful ways of describing our impression of such. It also seems insincere, cloying, fake, and is generally considered offensive. The word toadying also comes to mind. It’s like somebody who wants something from you constantly showering you with false praise as though it were some sort of bribe to mollycoddle your ego. It’s totally transparent, and frankly stinks. Nobody likes a brown-noser or an ass-kisser, and that’s what this comes off as. — tchrist 7 mins ago

Then we have Hanu going through the fricking thesaurus throwing synsets at us.

How could you have left out glistering and glowing — not to mention shining, sparkling, twinkling, spangling, scintillating, and coruscating? — tchrist 25 mins ago

cornbread ninja

bakes cookies for @tchrist

tchrist

2:57 AM

2

Q: Difference in the implied meaning when different words for "cheating" used?

Please consider the sentences below: He chiseled me out of my dues. He swindled me out of dues. He cheated me out of my dues. Below are the definitions given by Dictionary Chisel = cheat or swindle (someone) out of something. Swindle = use deception to deprive (someone) of mone...

cornbread ninja

are you still deathly ill?

tchrist

0

Q: Usage differences between Smile vs laugh vs Sneer vs chuckle vs giggle vs titter vs grin vs beam vs smirk vs simper vs snicker vs Singger?

I learned from dictionary the below sentences are Synonyms or related words. I would like to know context specific usage of each word. Below are the dictionary meanings I have found Smile = form one's features into a pleased, kind, or amused expression, typically with the corners of the mouth...

word-usage

No.

But I am not right, either.

cornbread ninja

Hanu, Hanu.

tchrist

Still cannot drink coffee, or rich/fancy foods.

cornbread ninja

►

@tchrist noooooo, I am sorry to read that.

tchrist

2:58 AM

1

Q: Usage differences between "glum", "grumpy", "sulky", "glower", and "morose"

I learned from my English book these are synonyms. However I am curious to know what the specific usage of each word is. How much interchangeable are they with each other? Consider the sentence below. Raghu has been reprimanded by the principal for his low scores in term exams. His face is _...

word-choice differences adjectives

@cornbreadninja Thank you for your kindness.

cornbread ninja

Has he been suspended thus far?

Mitch

@tchrist OMG what else is there?

bread and water?

tchrist

@cornbreadninja No, but I have just gone through and close-voted many of his open questions and delete-voted many of his closed ones.

He was here in chat. We tried to dissuade him from this course. We clearly failed.

Mitch

@tchrist ostensibly his general directin of trying to find nuances is totally on-topic. But he just throws a blow out all-possible-synonyms-at-once question. Just too many questinos at once.

tchrist

@Mitch Bread and water do not trouble me.

cornbread ninja

3:02 AM

@tchrist I caught a bit of that. I also saw that he or someone made a special room.

tchrist

@cornbreadninja Oh, I did not see that.

cornbread ninja

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/6829/chat-with-hanu

tchrist

Not much there.

Mitch

Ha hA! just me!

and little text, only by hanu.

tchrist

I meant text.

It is like dictionaries do him no good. And he doesn’t show any other real research.

Mitch

3:06 AM

Dictionaries don't give that nuance.

user19161

5

Q: Which type of comma is used here?

I was reading a book called "The Penguin Guide to Punctuation" by R. L. Trask. It seems that the book doesn't explain all the uses of comma. It says "There are four uses of the comma, called the listing comma, the joining comma, the gapping comma and bracketing commas". Here's a brief summary of...

punctuation comma

user19161

May I draw your attention to this question close to my heart.

user19161

The upvoted answer there is wrong.

user19161

I have provided the correct answer.

user19161

I am not suggesting the use of commas in ways contrary to what you know.

user19161

3:09 AM

However, I am using Trask's work to answer the question about his work, since I studied it in great detail.

cornbread ninja

hello @Jasper

user19161

@cornbreadninja Hey K!

cornbread ninja

@JasperLoy how does monday look?

user19161

@cornbreadninja Bad. You know why. I hope you enjoy your Christmas holidays!

cornbread ninja

@JasperLoy :(

I'm sorry. And thank you.

user19161

3:17 AM

@cornbreadninja I guess the upvote was from you?

cornbread ninja

@JasperLoy looks at shoes

I saw your plea.

user19161

@cornbreadninja Hehe, if I don't get upvoted furiously for that answer and an accept, I will RAGEQUIT.

cornbread ninja

@JasperLoy >__<

user19161

That is because I spent hours studying commas from that book, and the question is about that book.

user19161

Fine if one has other theories of commas, but that is not what the question is about.

user19161

3:20 AM

By the way, that book is available online as well, and I have a copy on my shelf.

Robusto

1

A: Is there any reason why English doesn’t add respectful words in every sentence?

As previous answers indicate, English does have terms that show respect. For example, I'm in the habit of saying "Yes, sir," even when I am addressing someone younger than I. Occasionally I'll also say "Yes, ma'am," out of respect for a woman who may be near my age or older. Don't neglect...

This is just bizarre.

Mitch

@Robusto It's a reasonable question from a NNS that doesn't know and doesn't know linguistics.

Maybe not reasonable on ELU.

Robusto

I'm talking about this answer. It is certainly misleading to foreigners, but apparently just what a Korean wanted to hear.

user19161

Can I have some love on that comma answer?

user19161

@cornbreadninja I am not wearing any shoes now.

tchrist

3:29 AM

@Robusto It has nothing to do with language.

It has to do with culture.

user19161

We need to get into the definitions of "culture" and "language" for a rigorous discussion.

user19161

Half of all arguments are over subconscious disagreements about the definition of terms involved.

Mitch

@Robusto Oh.

But which way do you think it is misleading?

tchrist

Vocabulary, pronunciation, syntax.

Those are language.

But not chewing with your mouth open is culture.

Mitch

Because nobody in the US bows or uses 'honorifics' except in the goofy South?

Robusto

3:31 AM

It makes me think he's describing Bizarro world.

Mitch

@tchrist Right... that's onomatopoiea!

tchrist

@Mitch Say what?

Mitch

@Robusto It -is- answering something else.

@tchrist OK...or in the service industry and military.

user19161

@Mitch onomatopoeia

tchrist

No tomato peeing in this chat.

Mahnax

3:36 AM

Hello, everyone.

tchrist

Hello M..ax.

user19161

@Mahnax I just learned from DW that Mahnax rhymes with Starbucks.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy But only sometimes!

How are you all doing?

user19161

@tchrist It's actually Matt, in case you didn't know.

tchrist

Home for Christmas.

@JasperLoy No, it is Matthew, not Matt. And of course I know.

It is because I find it easier to call him Max than the other thing, which I always type wrong.

Like tomato peeing.

user19161

3:38 AM

Of course, perhaps Max is a hypocorism for Matthew.

user19161

And onomatopoeia is a literary device.

tchrist

A literary device?

Mahnax

@JasperLoy No, it'd be a hypocorism for Maxwell, wouldn't it?

user19161

Why did Bill ping me as @j on the main site?

user19161

Doesn't he know how to use at least three letters?

tchrist

3:40 AM

@JasperLoy You mean an apocopation?

user19161

If he didn't want to ping me, he need not have used the @ at all.

user19161

So I find this very weird.

tchrist

He doesn't know.

Mitch

@JasperLoy nicknames count as hypocorism?

tchrist

Hypocorism = pet name. Shortened name = Apocopation.

These can be the same, or different.

user19161

3:44 AM

Anyway, now that I have commented on Bill's answer on the comma, he has also commented on my answer on the comma. I expect downvotes to come in fast and furious on my answer any time now.

Mahnax

> A hypocorism (from Greek ὑποκορίζεσθαι hypokorizesthai, "to use child-talk") is a shorter or diminutive form of a word or given name…

tchrist

hypocorism /hɪp-/, /haɪˈpɒkərɪz(ə)m/. rare-1.
Etymology: ad. Gr. ὑποκόρισμα, -κορισμός pet-name, f. ὑποκορίζεσθαι to play the child, use terms of endearment, f. ὑπό in sense ‘somewhat, slightly’ + κόρος, κόρη child, boy, girl.
A pet-name.
1850 N. & Q. 1st Ser. I. 242/1 ― ‘Polly’ is one of those ‘hypocorisms’ or pet-names with which our language abounds.

user19161

However, note that I didn't downvote him, partly because I wanted to save one point, partly to keep my rep at a multiple of 5, and partly because there is some sense to what he says.

tchrist

That rare–1 is not a good sign.

apocopation /əˌpɒkəʊˈpeɪʃən/.
Etymology: n. of action f. apocopate v.: see -tion.
The action of apocopating: the state of being apocopated.
1727-51 Chambers Cycl. s.v. Apocope, ― When the Apocopation is marked with a superior comma··the word is said to be apostrophated.
1873 F. Hall Mod.Eng. 187 ― We should have had··alt, cit, plenipo··if there had been as popular a demand for the apocopation of altitudes, citizen, plenipotentiary.

user19161

Is there a word for a palindrome that is only so when letters are grouped? For example, 25625 is not a palindrome but (25)6(25) is.

tchrist

3:47 AM

That is not a palindrome in any sense that I can see.

user19161

By the way, not promoting Trask's work on punctuation here, but Barrie England seems to revere it like me.

Mitch

@tchrist huh. so nick-names are a kind of hypocorism.

user19161

@tchrist Well, 25 and then 6 and then 25.

Mitch

@JasperLoy Trask is trash.

tchrist

Should be 52.

user19161

3:49 AM

@Mitch Tell that to Barrie!

user19161

By the way, Trask is a famous linguist.

Mitch

@JasperLoy if you ask, it should be closed as too local. I bet there's a special math word. Grouped palindrome? a palindrome-homomorphism.

@JasperLoy link (to mention of Trask).

user19161

Larry Trask

:For the X-Men character see Larry Trask (comics) Robert Lawrence "Larry" Trask (November 10, 1944 – March 27, 2004) was Professor of Linguistics at the University of Sussex and an authority on the Basque language and historical linguistics. Born in upstate New York, USA, he initially studied chemistry in his home country, but after a brief stint in the Peace Corps he took an interest in linguistics. He received his PhD in linguistics from the University of London, and thereafter taught at various universities in the United Kingdom. He became a professor of linguistics at the Universit...

tchrist

muckamuck overcover trinitrin belibel derider dvandva felafel ingling ingoing tsantsa adrad algal caeca chich cocco edged exlex ictic indin magma mamma marma ongon onion pampa salsa sansa sarsa seise sense shish shush teste tonto unnun unrun upsup valva verve veuve

Mitch

@JasperLoy link to ELU mention.

user19161

3:52 AM

@Mitch It's in the question I discussed above!

user19161

5

Q: Which type of comma is used here?

I was reading a book called "The Penguin Guide to Punctuation" by R. L. Trask. It seems that the book doesn't explain all the uses of comma. It says "There are four uses of the comma, called the listing comma, the joining comma, the gapping comma and bracketing commas". Here's a brief summary of...

punctuation comma

user19161

So this guy is a native speaker, he is a Professor of Linguistics, he published several books. One cannot just dismiss this work as rubbish.

tchrist

You can’t always tell one comma from the other.

Those ones we call a comma chameleon.

3

They come and go.

user19161

So I had to write some comments on that post since Martha and Bill spoke rather negatively about it.

Mitch

@JasperLoy Oh, I was just taunting you.

But reading the question, I find none of the Trask categories applicable to the situation.

Gigili

3:55 AM

He toppled backward into the river.

tchrist

I would say backwards myself.

Gigili

I would not.

Mitch

The gunman walked towards his victim.

Gigili

And hullio.

user19161

@Mitch You need to read the whole book a few times first, like I did.

Mitch

3:57 AM

@JasperLoy I'm sure there's lots useful in it.THis one instance seems questionable.

Wait..you read a whole book on -punctuation-?

That's like reading a whole book on logarithms...the tables.

user19161

@Mitch Yes, what the asker said there is just an excerpt like I said.

tchrist

@Mitch A few times, no less!

Mitch

And that particular excerpt seems wrong, and that being the only passage I've ever seen, sheds a poor light on the rest. Just bayesian reasoning.

user19161

But I must say it is very confusing and perhaps incomplete.

user19161

But then other works on punctuation could be said to be incomplete as well!

Mitch

4:00 AM

@tchrist well, it does bear repeating. I read 'Eats Shoots and Leaves' once, and was entertained, but now I've forgotten what the -exact- title is.

user19161

So I think it is fair to say that this is one theory and there are other theories. Choose one of them for yourself.

Mitch

@JasperLoy I theorize that that theory (about choosing one theory for myself) is theoretically... impractical.

You realize I'm not trying to make sense.

Also, I'm not trying to correct typos.

Wait...it's morning for you, right?

@Gigili but 'toward' would sound very normal to me.

later!

tchrist

I and most people I know all tend to say towards instead of toward. I checked.

Robusto

That is a most untoward observation.

tchrist

You would be amazed what you learn by grepping through people’s mail.

user19161

4:21 AM

I have added a link to the "bracketing commas" section in the book in my answer to convince ELU.

user19161

1

A: Which type of comma is used here?

The commas in your example are bracketing commas used to set off the bolded interruptions. Bracketing commas can come in pairs in the middle of sentences or by themselves at the start or end of sentences. They serve to add more information to complete sentences. After two hours, the train cam...

user19161

Note that that is just a section, but it should suffice for our purpose.

user19161

Anyway, Merry Christmas! HO HO HO!

tchrist

It’s Christmas Eve Eve.

For a little while longer yet.

Robusto

And so to bed. With visions of sugar plums, etc.

tchrist

4:36 AM

Good night.

tchrist

4:58 AM

0

Q: Ethical or Scientific Reasoning in Argumentation

I am currently enrolled in an introductory course of English composition. My goal is to write an argumentation about raw milk, if I would legalize it in Canada or not. Is it possible to use ethic reasoning rather than scientific for my argumentation? Thank you for your time and effort. -Daniel

homework

No, you can only do that in French, not in English. WHAT?

user19161

Finally, the great Fumble Fingers also agrees with me on my comma, and I think Barrie will too when he awakes later...

cornbread ninja

5:24 AM

@tchrist sugarplums!

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…