English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

03:27

@Cerberus The Sony software isn't so bloated or anything; There are a lot of apps installed but that doesn't bother me THAT much, though I wish they were removable. Rather, it's the build of the phone itself. It feels incredibly cheap and just about every button feels wrong. Like, really wrong.

Cerberus

04:30

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 What does a wrong button feel like?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, on the GN, the buttons are capacitive and are in the same plane as the glass of the screen. On the Xperia Arc S, the buttons are flat, skinny push buttons that are angled away from the screen towards the back of the phone. They feel really awkward to use.

And the volume button is on the wrong side.

And the power button is on the top of the phone (I have since realized that the "power on top" is like the iphone... So maybe people are used to it? But it's annoying)

At least on both phones you can turn on the screen by pressing the home button... that is handy and one of the only valid arguments for a physical home button IMO

Also both phones feel cheaply made

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But a home button is so easily pressed in one's pocket.

I think I even accidentally push the power button when I take my phone out of my pocket.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The L7 has a plastic back that feels like a $1 disposable flashlight or something. It feels like it will be brittle. The Arc S has a back panel that doesn't fit right in the metal frame ,so the edges protrude slightly. Just enough to make it seem like it's not properly made.

Cerberus

I may disable the power button.

The battery door of the Nexus is also flimsy.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, perhaps. But be that as it may, I can see the appeal of a button on the face of the device which would activate it, even if you or I prefer the Nexus approach

Oh, the battery cover on the GN is 10x better than the other two phones.

Cerberus

04:38

All phones should have swipe to turn on!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It doesn't feel brittle. And it fits perfectly. At least, mine does.

Cerberus

(Well, I suppose you need the power button when the phone is really off.)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus yeah yeah, we've been over this :)

Cerberus

Mine fits too.

But I thought everybody was complaining about the "build quality" of the Nexus?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Also, both phones have really underwhelming screens. The black isn't really black, eg.

@Cerberus of the Nexus S or the GN? really?

Cerberus

04:39

(Not that I mind. As long as the plastic doesn't break, I don't care.)

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The GN.

Mahnax

Hi there.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The S has a single plastic back piece that seems kinda cheap, but it fits perfectly, and is really smooth. It gets a little scratched pretty easily though. ... not exactly scratched, per se... but worn. But very sturdy and smooth.

Cerberus

Hello.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The GN seems fine to me. At least as good as just about any other phone I've seen.

Mahnax

How are y'all?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

04:41

The iPhone has pretty decent build. I guess some people might like it better than the GN.

Cerberus

Oh, worn...I wonder why people care about that. And people complain about fingerprints! I mean, come on!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus well, touch-screen devices get really fingerprinty

@Mahnax good, you?

Cerberus

@Mahnax You've come just at the right time, phone-talk time! Well, that's 24/7, actually...

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And who cares?

Mahnax

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Fantastic!

@Cerberus Oh boy!

Cerberus

Not once have I ever noticed fingerprints.

I'm sure they're there, but they are below negligible.

Mahnax

04:42

There is a lot of phone talk here.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The GN is really solidly built. Sure, the outside is plastic. But it doesn't feel like cheap plastic. And the phone feels solid. You don't worry about it cracking or breaking or anything. You feel like you could drop it and it wouldn't break.

Cerberus

@Mahnax Yup.

Mahnax

I've decided to buy a new phone when I get a new job.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus lots of people. I try to keep my phone pretty clean.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I'm quite sure it will break easily, and what breaks is always the screen, so I don't see the point.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

04:43

@Mahnax The Nexus 4 is going to be announced on monday

Mahnax

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oohhh…

Cerberus

As to "feeling" cheap, I don't get that. Plastic is cheap, period. And aluminium is only marginally more expensive anyway.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Nope.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, the LG Optimus L7 feels like the backing is just going to fall apart. And the Sony feels like if you squeeze it a bit too hard it will slide apart into several pieces.

Cerberus

The event has been cancelled.

Hurricane.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus when?

Cerberus

04:44

I don't know.

@Mahnax Yay!

Let us advise you, when the time comes!

Mahnax

I will allow you to advise me, sure.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The only thing that I have ever seen broken in a smartphone is the screen...

@Mahnax What will be your budget, and what your requirements?

Mahnax

@Cerberus Requirements: able to connect to wi-fi hotspots, nice keyboard, preferably Android.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, I dropped my Nexus S once: slipped out of my hand while I was fumbling to grab it from under a big coat. It fell from waist height onto the road. The back cover popped off and the battery fell out but otherwise it was unharmed.

Cerberus

Nice keyboard?

Do you mean a hardware keyboard?

Mahnax

04:47

Er.

No, I guess I don't. I meant a nice touch screen.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, I have had that happen too.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Surely though you recognize that some plastic is cheaper than others. eg the outside edge of the GN, compared to the thin packaging used for frozen food.

Cerberus

But, if anything breaks easily, it's the screen. You were just lucky it didn't fall hard enough, and on the right side (the wrong side is flat on the front).

Mahnax

I think I would be comfortable spending up to about $400, so long as the phone was worth it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mahnax What carrier are you with?

Cerberus

04:48

@Mahnax Okay, then your requirements are very modest. All modern phones have those things.

Mahnax

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Rogers.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus See, I thought so, but the screens on these two new phones are really crappy

Cerberus

Then get a Galaxy Nexus or a Galaxy S2, probably?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Remember when we did that "black" test?

These two phones would fail

Cerberus

Yes...

But who cares about blackness?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

04:49

Are you kidding?

It speaks volumes about the kind of screen!

Cerberus

I certainly don't notice much difference between my screen and that of other phones I see around me.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Now that I've had a Nexus, with a proper black screen, I always notice when another screen isn't really black

Cerberus

So what if my screen doesn't get perfect black?

Well, I never notice.

My desktop monitor is very, very far from black.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mahnax Are you on a contract? up for a phone renewal?

Mahnax

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I've been on my 3-year plan for 1.5 years.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

04:51

@Cerberus Mine is pretty close.

Cerberus

But I don't really care either. It doesn't interfere with whatever I do. When I'm not actively looking for it, I just don't notice.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mahnax So, probably not

Mahnax

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah. They start offering you deals at around 2 years.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mahnax How old is your current phone? Can you wait half a year? Otherwise you'll be compromising on what you can buy. There is not much worthwhile in the $400 range

Cerberus

How about the Galaxy Nexus?

Amith KK

04:53

appears

Hello :D

Cerberus

By the way, can you please merge USD and CAD in the near future? That would be easier for me. Thanks.

Hello!

Amith KK

Two of you I know

The rest are new to me :P

Hello @Cerberus

Cerberus

Howdy.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Hello

Amith KK

Hey @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇

So, What's the topic?

Mahnax

04:55

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I could wait that long, yeah.

@AmithKK Hi there.

Amith KK

@Mahnax Hey :D

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

BTW @Cerberus I did what you suggested, re: ordering phones from Amazon to save money. I ended up with a German Sony phone that requires an adapter to plug it in, and has no English manuals, and a Taiwanese LG phone, which comes pre-loaded with tons of Chinese software.

Oh, and to make it even better, the Sony phone wasn't even the right phone. They accidentally upgraded me.

Amith KK

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 lol

Mahnax

The model of cell phone I have has been out for three years.

Amith KK

Too bad

Just get a galaxy nexus

Cerberus

04:56

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You ordered it from Amazon.de? Then buy an adaptor, should be € 3...

Mahnax

But I've only personally owned it for 1.5 years.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus no, I ordered from Amazon.com

Cerberus

And it wasn't in the description?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

it shipped with two adapters, so that's okay, but still slightly annoying.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

04:57

@AmithKK heheh, my personal phone is a GN :)

@Cerberus nope

Amith KK

Nice

Cerberus

Well, if you got the right adaptor, what does it matter?

Amith KK

Next for the Nexus 7 3G

Cerberus

@AmithKK Yay!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus The plug is about 3x as big as it needs to be

Amith KK

04:58

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Wait wat?

Cerberus

It's only for mains charging anyway, right?

Amith KK

Is it that the actual pins don't go in?

Cerberus

I don't think that's what he means.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@AmithKK The AC Adapter for the phone is bigger than I expected and I suspect it's because it's the European version, but maybe Sony just makes them huge. But then it needs an adapter which almost doubles the size of the whole shebang.

@Mahnax This site has unlocked phones and sells in Canada. The prices are higher than Amazon's though... but YMMV on Amazon.

Mahnax

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 OK. I'm actually waiting for some books to come through Amazon right now.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

05:01

Anyway, these are not show-stopping problems. But getting these phones from Amazon has been somewhat surprising and not in a good way.

Cerberus

Then get them off Ebay?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mahnax Cool. BTW you have to order the phones from Amazon.com, not .ca, and not all the sub-vendors will ship to canada.

Mahnax

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh, interesting. I will remember that.

Bah, there are so many good books that I need to read. Too many.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Oh, and the LG phone I got isn't officially available in Canada or the US, so naturally LG doesn't make the product page available on their CA or US sites.

And the Sony phone reported that there are no software updates. Except there were updates, but to see those updates I had to install some sony crap on my PC, which then downloaded the updated OS to the phone.

Mahnax

Hey @Amith, your chat "about" section is wrong.

Amith KK

05:05

I know :P

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Really, Having used samsung phones with their TouchWiz software, and Sony phones with their crap, and LG with their abysmal support, ... ugh. No wonder so many people aren't thrilled about Android.

Cerberus

newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875176322

Galaxy Nexus for CAD 400.

Mahnax

But is it unlocked?

Cerberus

I suppose you could save more on Amazon.

@Mahnax Of course!

Mahnax

@Cerberus Oh good. I didn't actually click the link, so you know.

Cerberus

05:13

I know.

amazon.com/Samsung-I9250-Galaxy-Nexus-Unlocked/dp/B005ZEF01A/…

USD 375 on Amazon.com.

Is the price difference worth having it shipped from abroad?

I presume Newegg.ca will ship from within Canada.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No

Cerberus

And seeing as your country is tiny, I'm sure shipping costs will be low from Newegg.ca.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah I didn't think so.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Newegg.ca has a really poor selection of unlocked phones

@Cerberus Not for $14

Cerberus

But it happens to have the GN.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 What?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus which is the only one worth considering :)

Cerberus

05:14

Hehe.

Well, the S2 has certain advantages.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Newegg: $CAD 389, Amazon: $USD 375

@Cerberus S2? or S3

Cerberus

A card reader and an FM radio.

S2.

Oh, you founder a cheaper GN on Newegg?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

No, the link you sent...

Cerberus

Funny. I assumed they would have a single price.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Huh, oh, yes.

I mislooked or misremembered.

So CAD 390 from Newegg, USD 375 from Amazon.com.

What's the exact exchange rate?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

They have 2 GNs: the White one is $400, the gray is $390. But I've never heard of a white GN, or forgotten it. Frankly I don't know why anyone would want a white phone. The LG phone I just got is white and it's ugly

Cerberus

05:17

I know it's close to 1:1...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It varies. just call it par.

Cerberus

Yes, the white one exists, to attract former Iphone lovers, perhaps.

OK.

The Iphone 3G was white only, I think?

The GN must have been designed around that time.

Or maybe around the Iphone 4. I don't know/care.

rambling

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I have a 3G and it's black

Mahnax

The iPhone 4 was the first iPhone to be offered in white, IIRC.

Either the 4 or the 4S.

Cerberus

Well, thanks a lot for crushing my poor theory.

Mahnax

05:21

Er, nope. The 3G came in both colours too, apparently.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

the 3G was available in white or black for the 16 GB version

Cerberus

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

according to wikipedia

Cerberus

The Iphone 1.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yeah, metal back

Cerberus

05:22

I count that as silver.

The white GN's bezel will still be black, I presume?

Not that I care.

Why am I talking about this?

Mahnax

@Cerberus God, that looks awful. The back, that is.

Cerberus

Oh, yes. I think everybody here had white Iphone 3Gs. Or that was my impression.

@Mahnax How about those silly icons in childish colours?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Samsung copied that in Touchwiz. They put rounded rectangles behind all icons.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Meh.

Cerberus

I want razor-sharp corners!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Bleh.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

05:26

Anyway, of the 5 cell phones we have here, my wife prefers the look of the 3G

Cerberus

The complete list is: — Cerberus 13 secs ago

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 ...

But she's Asian. So that's all right.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus what's THAT got to do with it?

Cerberus

Japanese cars and the eyes of cartoon characters are always very round!

And pokémon. They live in balls.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Well, she's Chinese and distrusts anything Japanese ever since they invaded China in the early 20th century.

Cerberus

Oops.

The Nanking massacre, huh.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

05:28

among other things

Cerberus

They have harmed my people too.

Mahnax

So I found out a bit of history about my Dutch great-grandmother at her funeral a few weeks ago.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I've been trying to explain to her that THOSE japanese people are dead now and the new ones are much friendlier, but whatevs.

Cerberus

This Chinese phone doesn't look so rounded.

@Mahnax Oh, what did you hear?

Mahnax

@Cerberus She came from a rich Dutch family, was born in 1923. She planned to be an opera singer, but the war hit, and she escaped the country with a Canadian soldier who came looking for eggs.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

05:31

@Cerberus Huawei phones don't get much attention in the non-Chinese markets.

Cerberus

And another Chinese manufacturer.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, well, some people buy them here.

Not a great many.

Mahnax

She married him, moved to Manitoba, and then to Alberta, in the seventies.

Cerberus

Wow!

That sounds interesting.

What was her last name?

Where did she grow up?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mahnax That is a common tale, actually. But still interesting.

Cerberus

By the way, the Canadians only came here to liberate us, so by the end of the war.

Mahnax

05:34

@Cerberus Ugh, I can't remember, for some reason.

Cerberus

My friend has a Canadian grandfather who was in the army.

@Mahnax Tell me when you know.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Sure.

Cerberus

Would be funny if we were related.

Mahnax

That would be fantastic, actually.

Cerberus

If you go back far enough, you're related to millions of people.

Mahnax

05:36

Do you know of any relatives that ran away with moustachioed Canadian men?

Cerberus

Haha no.

Mahnax

I think she grew up by Rotterdam.

Cerberus

Hmm.

My mother was born there.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, isn't that true of just about everywhere in Europe? The Germans invade, then a long wait, then D-Day

Cerberus

There was more prolonged fighting in other countries.

Mahnax

05:38

Actually, I inherited two door-cats from her when she passed.

Cerberus

We were closest to Germany.

Door-cats? Are those statuettes?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Well, I should get going. It's 1:40 am here now. I probably have to be up by 8.

Cerberus

Yikes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

the kids aren't cooking their own breakfasts yet.

Cerberus

Daylight Saving Time?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

05:40

it's still DST, yes

Cerberus

It has happened her a few hours ago.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

oh, no... we don't switch for a while yet.

Cerberus

Oh.

Well, goodnight!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

'night!

Mahnax

Door cats.

Goodnight, Mr. Shiny.

Cerberus

05:41

Oh, funny.

Mahnax

Yes, I love them.

Well, I should probably be off. Good night.

Cerberus

Bai.

Ranger

06:12

hi

RegDwighт

10:46

0

Q: Is "This is our fault" a way of saying, "Look but don't ask: you are persona-non-grata"?

I ask a valid question with without registering and the question is rejected for lack either of user title or email address, although both have been provided. I sign on and try again. Same thing. I sign out, disconnect, shut down, wait several hours, reconnect, sign on, attempt to question again ...

bug

> Please forgive any typo's

No. I will not.

user19161

11:21

@ami What are you doing here?

Amith KK

Hello @JasperLoy

Just lurking

tchrist

11:58

> None of the other stack forae I have visited seem to have this kind of problem so maybe I am taking it to personally, and ought to... Or is it just time for maintenance of something.

Double plural of mixed declension?

Or just pretentiousnessus?

Me I vote for number #2.

Amith KK

BBL

tchrist

@Cerberus Consider the expression "our gas is out" to mean that the public utility is not working.

RegDwighт

@KitFox you will be happy to learn (and @Cerberus, too) that The IgNobel 2012 literature prize went to the U.S. Government General Accountability Office, for issuing a report about reports about reports that recommends the preparation of a report about the report about reports about reports.

2

Bah how much I hate it when people post awfully formatted stuff, and then I can't edit it in peace because they keep editing it themselves, and not to fix formatting, but to add more fluff.

tchrist

Too much fulff.

RegDwighт

0

Q: the usage of "the" with "least"

The main issue here is how to sort out the usage of "the" with "least". Sometimes it's clear but there are cases when I am not sure whether to use the article "the" or not. Least with the verb The man who actually won the car is the one who wanted it least. (no “the”) The President seemed to...

grammar

Seven edits already. Zero improvements.

I think I'll just hack away at it, and override any edits that are still upcoming. The grace period is over.

tchrist

12:12

I just shook my head over that one, thinking there might still be sleep in my eyes.

RegDwighт

Ten edits now. I tried to turn the tables on him, living microedits every five seconds, but he's still faster than me.

Don't tease me, bro, lest I lock it.

tchrist

I didn’t know you could count edits within the grace period that all merge into one.

RegDwighт

I can only count them because I get a warning each time.

tchrist

Ah.

RegDwighт

The most awful part about this is, it could be a dupe.

Haven't had time to look into that yet.

tchrist

12:20

It’s NARQy. Or I am too slow to see.

RegDwighт

But we do have at least one question that deals with the + superlatives.

2

Q: "The" before superlative

Possible Duplicate: Do I need to put “the” before “most” in this sentence? I've always thought you need the definite article 'the' before the superlative of an adjective, except when the comparison is made within the same subject: The swimming pool is deepest here. Some people say 2 i...

definite-article superlative

tchrist

I’m not the least bit surprised.

RegDwighт

2

Q: Do I need to put “the” before “most” in this sentence?

Is putting “the” before “most” in this sentence compulsory, optional, or a mistake? Fascination with language and attention to particular regions and communities in America are the most common themes for which Coen brothers’ works are appraised. If it is purely optional, how does it...

articles definite-article superlative

2

Q: Are there cases when the word "best" as an adjective could be used without "the"?

That is an advertisement of one company, a banner. They write the name of the company and the second line goes like this "best ad designs". Is this line correct? or should there be a "the"? Is there a general rule to put "the" before the adjective "best" or are there cases when "the" is not need...

definite-article superlative

Etc.

tchrist

I am subthrilled with his “found in a dictionary” pseudo-refs. Those mights as well be “found randomly on the internet” as far as I can tell.

RegDwighт

It could be an Internet dictionary. Or a printed Urban Dictionary.

The possibilities are endless!

tchrist

12:23

Oh, you finally consistented his Internets.

RegDwighт

I guess. I don't remember.

I gave up at one point.

Not sure I even read it all.

tchrist

Pithy it is not.

RegDwighт

It's too long to fit into the editing textarea, so it's a PITA to edit even without being sabotaged every ten seconds.

tchrist

Nor laconic.

RegDwighт

I need a tea. And warm socks. I hate this weather.

At least we have full sunshine today. My tomato is happy even if freezing.

BBL

tchrist

12:37

Warm socks. Don’t get me started. I wish we would ever have a proper autumn, instead of a raucous tug-of-war between summer and winter. I remember the bat-winged lizard-birds, / The Age of Ice and the mammoth herds, / And the giant tigers that stalked them down / Through Regent's Park into Camden Town.

tchrist

13:10

0

A: How did "sinister", the Latin word for "left-handed", get its current meaning?

Perhaps not an evolution in or from Latin, but a contribution (in late ancient empire times) to Latin (from remotely ancient, Hebrew times). http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/11420/good-inclination-or-evil-inclination-in-the-womb?rq=1 suggests an origin in Judaic scripture and teachin...

Is it just me, or is lex proving himself an impenetrable bother?

user19161

@tchrist Oh no, I am a leftie!

tchrist

13:42

@JasperLoy Much now does that explain.

Middle English had txtspk abbreviations: For deol mungen I ne may Þe pyne þᵗ þᵘ þoledest þulke day.

Robusto

0

Q: "What is an apple?" vs. "What is apple?" vs. "What is the apple?"

"What is an apple?" vs. "What is apple?" vs. "What is the apple?" 1:Which one is correct in purist way if I am asking for the definition of the word "apple" or I want to know what the thing is? 2:To the answer, how can I say? "An apple is a kind of fruit." or "Apple is a kind of fruit." or "The...

articles

Wot the ELL?

MartyIX

Hi, may I ask if the error message: "Only 'domainname.tld' is valid input." is correct? I'm not sure if the indefinite article ("a valid input") should be used or not.

tchrist

@Robusto I thought of editing it, but gave up.

Robusto

@MartyIX Don't use the indefinite article there. In fact, don't use any article.

tchrist

@MartyIX Don’t use the “a” there.

Alenanno

13:53

@MartyIX Use it.

xD

tchrist

Gosh.

Robusto

Triple jinx!!!

MartyIX

wow and why not? ;)

Thank you!

Robusto

Alenanno was being ironical, so his answer counts in the jinx.

tchrist

My ticks are more attractively curvaceous.

Alenanno

13:54

@Robusto Yes... It was irony... looks around and whistles

Robusto

@MartyIX Because just don't.

tchrist

People always wait to do their ironing till Sunday morning before church, when in fact it should be done on Saturday.

Robusto

By that standard I should never do any ironing. Which I don't.

MartyIX

@Robusto hmmm, but what is the reasoning behind leaving out an article in this case?

tchrist

This week’s QI claims that the typical man’s hat worn in the Old West, the bowler hat, are actually called “derby” hats in America. Really? I’m nearly sure I’ve never heard of that.

Robusto

13:56

I presume you're talking about some kind of web form?

tchrist

Bowler hat

The bowler hat, also known as a coke hat, derby (US), billycock or bombín, is a hard felt hat with a rounded crown originally created in 1849 for the British soldier and politician Edward Coke, the younger brother of the 2nd Earl of Leicester. The bowler hat was popular with the working class during the Victorian era though it came to form the official work uniform of bankers. Later in the United Kingdom, it would come to be worn as work dress by the officers of the Queen's Guards. History The bowler once defined British civil servants and bankers, and later American workingmen. It was de...

MartyIX

@Robusto Yes, that's correct.

Robusto

Then you risk confusion with the HTML element known as input. It's not the input that is valid or invalid, it is the value of said input.

In the other context, input is normally used as a mass noun, not countable.

tchrist

Surely this is a bowler hat in this iconic scene?

Those men are American. And they are all saying “bowler hat”.

MartyIX

@Robusto Ah, I get it. Thanks!

tchrist

14:00

►

Robusto

Laters.

tchrist

See ya.

@Reg When we were talking about your “half/twice as seldom” thing, did we mention that seldom is a negative?

And you can say twice as fat, but not twice as thin.

tchrist

14:29

Why does English alone have twice? zvei mal. twee keer. två gånger. to gange. bis in die. deux fois. dues vegades. dos veces. duas vezes. due volte. de două ori. δύο φορές.

Basque does have birritan, or bi aldiz, depending.

That looks fused.

Irish has things like faoi dhó or dhá uair, depending.

The unique even quasisemidemihemirelated language I could find that has a single word for twice the way English does is Icelandic, which has the perfectly reasonable tvisvar.

What happened to be everybody else?

Hm, actually, I think in Latin you can just say bis.

The pharmacist’s bis in die means twice daily.

And the French word for encore is bis.

@Cerberus Right?

Icelandic even has þrisvar for thrice, which again is eminently reasonable. I think I like Icelandic.

tchrist

14:48

And along the same lines, both is rare in Romance languages, but common in Germanic ones.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…