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00:00
is there a way to search quickly for past chats that I have done with someone here?
00:33
@imbAF Is this helpful?
01:15
schweg
do you people find learning about quantization enlightening
 
1 hour later…
02:18
@SillyGoose ???
02:40
@naturallyInconsistent hm?
I mean like different ways to formally quantize a classical system. Not like quantization as in doing quantum mechanics or writing hats on things
oh, that.
dunno abt that
Two people walk into a bar at 99.99% the speed of light. The bartender asks, "why the short face there fellas?"
 
1 hour later…
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04:10
Hello Everyone...
Why force in N2L depend on position, time and velocity. Not mass, momentum and acceleration?
F(x , t , v)
Never we wrote F(x , t , v , m , a, p)
04:43
@user430580 And bartender was giving drinks to all people in normal speed those two people to themselves "why this guy is so slow?"
@user430580 I forgot to ask "are those guys are high dose of RedBull?" lol
 
3 hours later…
07:29
@PM2Ring i finally watched the above video. the finding is that microtubules show a robust kind of quantum effect that is relatively immune to decoherence
Sabine also says the this idea could inspire robust quantum computers
@123 mass does show up in Gravitation force
@123 other dependencies could show up. $v$ shows up in magnetic force
we just write whatever experiments tell us
hi
@RyderRude Interesting! I guess I better watch the video...
@PM2Ring yes. It is a great finding... And the researcher who published this had no affiliation with Penrose
so it is sort of like Penrose's idea coming true! Penrose exactly advocated that it is microtubules that are quantum
Sort of. I guess time will tell.
yes. so far we have only established that quantum effects are significant in the brain. the relation of this to consciousness is not established
07:46
But it's really hard verifying models of brain activity, even fairly large scale stuff. Figuring out what the microtubules are actually doing won't be easy. And finding out if / how they relate to consciousness / subjective experience will be even harder.
yes. I am surprised that they were even able to verify quantum properties of microtubules. brain is an incredibly busy environment
it is a start, i guess. i should follow more developments in neuroscience
Greg Egan had some stuff the other day about the brain map of the fruit fly. mathstodon.xyz/@gregeganSF/113241423046196043
really cool
some tree connections in forests superficially look like this
not just superficially, they r also neural connections between trees
some large galaxies may also look like this, which leads to the idea of large scale consciousness
08:08
@RyderRude Many trees have sophisticated symbiotic interconnections with soil fungus networks. They're really important for many Australian trees because a lot of the soil here has fairly low nutrient levels. Some of those networks are vast.
@RyderRude Perhaps. :) But that lightspeed barrier kinda limits things. But I guess if you're a galaxy, you aren't in a rush. :)
Fake cosmic web fractals, in 3D. astronomy.stackexchange.com/a/55035/16685 It's not very web-like, because graphics like that really chew up a lot of RAM. I had to keep it simple so it'd run in my phone browser.
08:32
@PM2Ring it is a speculation if trees also.communicate using these networks
@PM2Ring there is a conscious planet in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2
@PM2Ring it looks pretty in 3d
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09:01
Why force is not a function of mass or acceleration like $F(m)$ or $F(a)$?
@123 mass is more like a parameter. because we don't typically vary the mass of an object as we apply some force to it.
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@qwerty What if we use rocket example where mass changes? F(m)
F(m,a) = ma.
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@RyderisnotRude. I have never seen this before F(m,a)
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09:10
I think here in this equation we only write parameters where force (cause) itself depend on F(x , t , v) and $ma$ (effect)
@123 where are you getting this from? I dont think it's right
it is a choice what u want to write. u can write $\frac{Gm_1m_2}{r^2}$ as $F(r)$ or $F(m_1, r)$ or $F(m_1,m_2, r)$
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@RyderRude Ookay...
when we want to study a system of particles with fixed masses, we would write $F(r)$
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So force can be a function of mass $F(m)$?
09:14
in Lagrangian mech, we would write $L(x, \dot x)$
@123 yes. $\frac{Gm_1m_2}{r^2}$ is a function of two masses
But in Lagrangian mech, we wouldn't write $L(m_1,m_2, x, \dot x)$
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What about force can be a function of acceleration $F(a)$?
because we don't need to talk about variations wrt $m$
@123 I've never seen this and it would be weird
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I know $F(t)$ where EM changes with time. I know $F(r)$ where hookes law and law of gravitation, I know $F(v)$ like air friction.
What is the example of force is a function of mass $F(m)$?
yes
@123 gravitational force
i just told u...
if there's mass on the right side, u can think of it as a function of mass, it's just not useful
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@RyderRude Why we don't write normally $F(m_1 , m_2 , r)$ in NGL?
09:18
@123 idk. it is technically just a convention
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@RyderRude If this is the criteria in $F(m , a) = ma$, why not $F(a)$
if u r studying a system, say planets, the $r$ will vary but the $m$ will be fixed @123
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@RyderRude Ookay.. What about $F(a)$
@123 in the context of N2L, one can write F(a) i guess
but i was talking in the context of force laws
like Coulomb force or Gravitational force law
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@RyderRude Why we write $F(r(t) , v(t) , t) = ma$ , here no position, velocity and time on right side of the equation?
09:22
@123 yes. The right is fixed to be ma
N2L says the right must be ma
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So why $F( r , v , t)$
it is the force law u use to make predictions
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there is no position , velocity and time involve in N2L
u need two laws to predict trajectories
Newton's second law isnt complete by itself. you have to supply a force law
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09:24
@qwerty Pls explain more this statement
some books consider F=ma as a definition of a force
if you're struggling at this level, it's not a bad way to think of it
i also urge u to go through this answer physics.stackexchange.com/a/70188 @123
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Let me read thanks
Newton phrased his laws extremely poorly by modern standards
which is what leads to all this confusion
but they still keep teaching physics the way Newton phrased it....
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Yes i am reading the thread
09:36
@123 You have already been told to read that answer several times in the past, up to 3 1/2 years ago and more recently in August. I don't understand why you act as if this is new information to you.
Jun 14, 2021 at 9:58, by 123
@ACuriousMind I have read his answer one week earlier but now after your sharing i am reading it very carefully. Thanks
if you keep coming back here with the same questions and people keep telling you to read the same thing but apparently you retain none of it something is going wrong
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@ACuriousMind : P Wow what a memory you have ACM... You share 3.5 years back comments.
my personal opinion is that it's ok if the way one person, or one book, explains something doesnt make sense to you no matter how many times you read it however this is kind of important information to actually share and an attempt should be made to at least find other books or resources at a level/language you understnad, or point out specifics in the answer that don't parse... otherwise people will end up feeling frustrated
@123 I wasn't fishing for compliments; my point is more that it's a waste of everyone's time if you keep asking the same questions and people keep telling you the same answers but instead of reacting to that in any way you just return a few months later and ask the same questions again, receiving the same answers.
If you don't understand the content of that answer or other responses you get, be specific about what you don't understand, but if you just ask the same questions over and over again you'll get the same answers over and over again, making no progress at all.
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@ACuriousMind You are right , i agree. Thanks. Pls also clear me why force is not a function of acceleration $F(a)$. I have never read it.
and really you haven't made any progress at all since you've been asking basic questions about Newtonian mechanics in here for 4 years; whatever you're doing here, it's not working
09:50
Newtonian mechanics is kind of important to get into physics
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I thought until i don't fully understand the key ideas of Newtonian mechanics , i never understand modern physics. May be i am wrong. But the same ideas used in modern physics with adding postulate and assumptions.
@123 try something new like Lagrangian mech. Maybe Newtonian will make sense in retrospect
@123 ...you really think that just asking me another very generic and basic question is the right thing? After I just told you that maybe just asking these questions what way isn't the right way to do this because you haven't shown any evident progress in years?
@ACuriousMind maybe you've paid more attention to what 123 has been asking so you know the context better than I do. but to give a very generous interpretation it also could be someone has progressed with computations and whatnot but are stuck on some definitional/semantic issues that are poorly explained at their level.
Newtonian mech's phrasing is really awful. it is prohibiting u from moving forward @123
Lagrangian mech is a good phrasing of almost equivalent ideas
09:56
@qwerty They've been reading K&K for four years (then - now)
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Yes you are right. I am trying LM but i am stucked in understanding virtual displacement.
They're clearly stuck, and asking questions in this chat is not helping them progress
@ACuriousMind to be fair Kevin and Kell is a very long comic
@123 oh.. i never cared about virtual displacement stuff
I will say some advice that some maths postdocs tell me all the time. "In maths, we don't really understand things, we get used to them."
09:58
@qwerty I love that von Neumann quote, too
I feel some level of sympathy, as I consider myself somewhat slow: I am a "bottom up learner", which means I sometimes find it hard to see the big concepts until I've first understood small details and definitions. however, spending 4 years on the same elementary text is clearly extreme
my advice is to read more books more widely until you find books that make sense to you
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Yes all of you are right.
10:33
@qwerty i always found this quote funny because getting used to something is basically understanding it
@nickbros123 imo not really; you can get good with computations, manipulations and memorise rules without deeply understanding foundations. however, it's not really reasonable to expect to understand everything deeply all at once, and not everyone means the same thing when they claim to understand something. one person's understanding won't be the same as another's as they will have different maths backgrounds and applications and so on
sometimes getting used to things is all we have time for
@nickbros123 it isnt true in my experience... e.g. i would simply accept that the integral of 1/x is log x. i dont have a feel for it and i dont care about getting a feel for it anymore
@qwerty oh, u mean like calculations and stuff. Then you are correct. a classical example would be, using $e^x$ in high school. We neither knew power series, nor the least upper bound axiom of real line, yet we used them to death :) I was talking more about abstract math. Like, u see the definition of an annihilator of S: "set of all functionals whose kernel contains S", there is nothing to much understand at face value, but as u see more theorems around this object, u understand more about it
For example, I reckon a vast number of the population could reasonably claim they "understand" Newton's laws of motion -- indeed one might expect any high schooler to "understand" Newton's laws. However, I bet you anything that almost no or very few high schoolers could have written anything remotely similar to what Joshphysics did from scratch within 1 year of learning physics in high school.
another example perhaps would be change of variables formula for triple integrals. even as far as 2nd year multivariate course goes, we were only given a "physical" / "hand wave" argument as to how dx dy turns ro r dr sin theta d theta
but you can understand these things with higher math, just needs more definitions and theorems
but then no one who "gets used" to these types of calculations, without seeing the higher structures, can claim that they understand any of this
10:46
@nickbros123 but they do :P all the time
people dont know what they dont know
there's levels on levels of understanding
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I used to understand physics using their mathematical formulae and the result of experiments. Because experimental results are written in term of physics equation.
I've discussed the meaning of that quote to me before here and here
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thats true, but then there is a dichotomy here. On the one hand, u can be crazy good @ manupilating stuff like e^x, power series, etc and not know the convergence ideas behind it, like sequence of functions, uniform convergence etc (or alternatively, defining e^x using LUB axiom, or even more alternatively, defining e^x as that unique function that solves a particular DE with a given set of boundary conditions), or u can know these things, but be less agile with calculations

due to maybe, lack of practice / drill problems. most math students in pure stream lack drill problems practice. So
122
Q: What are some interpretations of Von Neumann's quote?

NebulousRevealJohn Von Neumann once said to Felix Smith, "Young man, in mathematics you don't understand things. You just get used to them." This was a response to Smith's fear about the method of characteristics. Did he mean that with experience and practice, one obtains understanding?

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I never say the experimental results should be understandable. I just say whatever experimental results are we have wrote it in mathematical equation.
10:53
@ACuriousMind yes. this kind of understanding is different from "getting used to things", although it may result from getting used to things but not necessarily
this kind of understanding makes u see some things as obvious
but u will never see everything as obvious, even when u get used to them
@ACuriousMind somewhat different to you, I find my understanding of things to be like a series of step functions all the time. sometimes I just need a particular phrase or concept unlocked before I can suddenly "move up a rung" to the next one. may I ask do you think of yourself as a "bottom up" or "top down" learner, or perhaps neither/ dont believe in it...? Im curious as you seem very detail oriented but also mentioned picking up new concepts extremely quickly
@123 it is also a two-way process. Sometimes u write equations and check it with experiments
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Yes
@qwerty i am a bottom up learner. i think bottom up is more common...
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I know, not everything is understandable in experiment in any theory LM,HM, QM, QFT and GR but it is based on some assumption. Based on these assumptions or experimental results we wrote or derived equations in physics.
I need to understand these equations based on assumption or experiments.
10:58
@123 u just need to get used to them. u will form ur own interpretation
I have another example. Perhaps one learns linear algebra from say, a matrix oriented book- a la, gilbert strang. He may come across the problem: if two systems of linear equations have the same solution space, they are row equivalent. He breaks his head on this for a while, does matrix calculations cuz thats all he can do, and gives up. Then he reads sheldon axler, where the development of vector space theory and transofrmatons theory is well fleshed out that, this theorem simply

is a sub case of a general theorem holding for transformations. Id say, without actually defining the word "un
@RyderRude lol imo you've been hanging out in certain circles then... I think many neurotypical people are top down. big picture first.
@qwerty i also like big picture first. i think i am a mixed type learner
@qwerty I am very detail-oriented but I can tolerate not understanding the details at first - when I encounter something new, the important thing to me is to get some working idea of it, to get some feel for why it exists and what it does and what details there actually are to understand.
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These days i am trying to animate Minkowski spacetime. But from lorentz transformation i don't find the way to plot spacetime diagram.
11:01
@ACuriousMind same
@ACuriousMind I think for me often the stumbling block is trying to fit new concepts into my pre-existing physics intuition/framework
well, to be exact, my problem is that I hate inconsistencies
e.g. i would prefer if physics books have a math prerequisite chapter, cuz i dont wanna research math top-down starting from physics @qwerty
i would like to know the math first before getting to the physics laws
@qwerty I think the first time I realized I had been lied to (Newtonian mechanics isn't actually how the world works) I felt similarly but after that I found having to deconstruct my entire worldview and rebuild it somewhat exciting :P
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@RyderRude Same
I literally lose sleep for days if something feels inconsistent, and very much unable to move on until the inconsistency is resolved - which costs me a lot of time often compared to peers who can live with it. on the other hand, I would like to think that in the very long run I end up with random parts of knowledge that are deeper, though.
11:04
@123 top down learners would learn the math as they go along with the physics
e.g. i read about a top down learner who never learned linear algebra as a subject on its own
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I always learn math before physics.
@ACuriousMind hah, somewhat the same. I still cant wait to taste that QM apple that you quoted about. I havent felt sufficiently shocked or lost of innocence, so I know there's something I dont get.
@qwerty literally how many days is your max :^)
it is the bottom up approach. Getting rid of pre requisites first @123
@qwerty interference alone is a quantum apple....
@qwerty I know that feeling but I experience no urge in dealing with it - an inconsistency just means there's more to learn, and there's always more to learn ;)
11:06
@RyderisnotRude. uhhhhh well it's actually a little personal :P so i'll pass on answering
@qwerty this may be the advantage of top down...
@RyderRude yes. can't help being (probably?) on the spectrum though :')
@qwerty i also have some problems..
i tend to jump from learning physics to philosophy to formal logic
but i do bottom up. but i need some big picture results to be interested in the field
sure, context is important
I love context too
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11:11
@RyderRude Same here. First get the idea of the theory in big picture then learn math, then come back to physics again.
Context is king.
but I think people who are top down learners seem to be more OK with handwaving/analogy as a means to motivate certain results
@qwerty handwaving also shows up a lot in bottom up, because while a bottom up person would like to learn pre requisites first, they wouldn't learn every detail of it
it depends on the bottom up person
some might like to fully go through the bottom, learning rigorous calculus
topdown learners are ubiquitous. It is a decent way of learning a lot of things in small time. And I think it is a good way to learn a trade, like maybe working with a programming language
Not being able to see the forest for the trees is a common bottom-up weakness.
11:15
@nickbros123 yes. bottom up and top down are just general guidelines. most people use a mixture
I go bottom-up in mathematics, as much as I can, cuz something has to be concrete :P everything else I do top-down
i go bottom up in physics too. imagine if a quantum mech book started with the hydrogen atom and gave u the big picture of everything :P @nickbros123
it is not for me. i like qualitative big pictures tho
that would be a really long book xD
funny thins is, im all about this "fine detalis" and "bottom-up" approach, but when someone writes a book like that which invariably ends up being huge, I would detest it cuz I dont like huge books xD
so what it is that I really want? no one knows :P
people like some mixture of bottom up and top down
11:28
@RyderisnotRude. cool
 
2 hours later…
13:08
can anyone hear what the lecturer is saying around 41:22? pirsa.org/08040024 he's mentioning "Leibniz equations" in [something something] theory
as an example of a first-order theory
just a bit before 41:22 actually
google isn't giving me any leads
I think he's saying "in the [mumble] quantum theory", but I can't make out which equations he means, either
13:25
oh well, thanks for trying
btw, regarding whether symmetries "explain" conservation (he's firmly camp no, and had other reasons), he just dropped this nugget
> \textbf{Which symmetry is associated with a given conserved quantity can depend on the choice of the Lagrangian.} Lagrangian with an additional divergence gives the same equations of motion; this is like a gauge freedom in the Lagrangian itself. However, there are also other cases where you can define a completely different Lagrangian (inequivalent Lagrangians) which leads to the same equations of motion.
> These are not particularly useful, but they are striking for understanding Noether's theorem. If if you are explaining conserved quantities in terms of symmetries, it is contextual. It depends on your choice of Lagrangian.
I prefer to think about Noether's theorem in the Hamiltonian formulation, where the relationship between conserved quantities and symmetries is much more obvious - the symmetry associated with a conserved quantity is generated by the Poisson bracket with the conserved quantity itself
Interesting - could you point me to a reference? I don't think I recall seeing it in the Hamiltonian formulation
this doesn't really depend on your "choice" of Hamiltonian/Lagrangian, except insofar as of course the condition to be "conserved" is that the time derivative is zero, and the time derivative is given by the Poisson bracket of a quantity with the Hamiltonian (that's just Hamilton's equation of motion)
and so in the formulation you're describing, there's no dependence on the choice of Hamiltonian
oh I see
but since that's the equation of motion itself, it is not comparable to the choice of different Lagrangians that may lead to the same equations of motion your quote is concerned about
@qwerty any of the standard texts that are sophisticated enough to discuss Poisson brackets should have this, the question is whether they discuss it explicitly - this kind of converse of Noether is almost trivial once you have $\dot{f} = \{H,f\}$ as Hamilton's equation of motion, since the transformation generated by $f$ is a symmetry iff $\{H,f\} = 0$ and then $\dot{f} = 0$ directly follows.
13:39
I'll check Goldstein, and Arnold? TBH I havent yet found an exposition that I'm comfortable with, hence my following these lectures which seem to be pitched at the level/detail I'm after
Just checked Goldstein section 13.7 on noether's theorem, and didn't see it...
I mean they should discuss this when discussing symmetries and transformations in the Hamiltonian formalism, not necessarily in the context of Noether's theorem
ah ok
Yeah I haven't really looked at Hamiltonian mechanics since taking in undergrad. I might have to save this to think about later :( so i can press on with the rest of it
14:51
in The Thing, they explore the problems of trusting your crew
and also of defeating an organism whose every cell is a fully functioning organism
15:18
Am hoping someone can help me with the development from my book so I don't have to spam main site again with textbook-specific questions
The final line is my concern. I don't see why the advance is by $\pi \epsilon$ rather than $\pi epsilon/2$.
Basically, my book looks at slight perturbations to circular orbits in the one-body problem. It then finds the general structure $r = a/(1+\xi)$ where $\xi = A \cos \Omega \theta + B \sin \Omega \theta$. Thus I can see why $\alpha \Omega = \pi$ is the equation determining the apsidal angle (angle between successive maxima and minima of radial distance from force center). But then why isn't the equation I sent in the first picture saying that this is advancing by $\pi \epsilon /2$?
 
1 hour later…
16:35
@ee18 i don't totally get what's happening but maybe because $\epsilon$ is positive and negative
can any1 explain to me why
we break up a right traveling wave in exp notation to be another right and left traveling wave
like the entire expression is the right traveling wave, so why are we calling parts of it the right/left part
@Obliv the text is using two different ideas of "moving" here
one is the idea of the classical motion of a wave, that's the sense in which the sine is right-moving
the other is the idea that a quantum object has a momentum, and the two exponentials are the wavefunctions for a state with momentum $p$ (right-moving in terms of momentum) and $-p$ (left-moving in terms of momentum), respectively
so basically because the momentum operator acting on $\psi_{right}$ gives a positive $p$, we call that $\psi$ right moving in terms of $\hat{p}$
In class we just assumed for a moment we can write a big $\psi(x,t)$ in the form of little $\psi(x)$ times some function of $t$
but the textbook makes it seem like I could somehow rearrange terms to make it $\psi(x)e^{-i\omega t}$
in my diff eq class last year we also assumed a PDE can be a product of functions of separate variables
something like this?
 
3 hours later…
20:01
what is a nice introductory resource to learn about formal ways to quantize?
@SillyGoose which formal way?
any and all
deformation quantization and geometric quantization use entirely different techniques, for instance
on deformation quantization in terms of the Moyal bracket/star product you want to look for the "phase space formulation" of QM, Cosmas Zachos who's also pretty active here on the site has written lots on it, e.g, arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0110114
What kind of name is that, is he related to Cosmo Kramer
on geometric quantization I like Schottenloher (his CFT notes are also very good)
20:12
hm geometric quantization sounds more interesting perhaps I will start there
it's the less practicable one :P
It's pretty cool but otoh it is less workable as far as we know
the problem is that while it produces "quantum theories" the algebras of observables it produces for those theories are usually much smaller than what you'd like
Although some basic quantum models work there
20:13
e.g. not even position, momentum and the Hamiltonian are guaranteed to yield proper operators at once in general
Why do you need so many observables, who are you, the king of Siam?
@Slereah yes, by royal decree every quantum theory shall have enough operators
it is the king's will
It would make proofs much shorter if that worked certainly
But I guess that's how people work in theology
@Slereah is this an idiom XD
or a phrase or something
@SillyGoose Reference to the king and I
20:18
also should one expect to be able to "quantize" every classical theory? it does not seem clear to me
although I guess some people work out theology with axioms : gutenberg.org/files/3800/3800-h/3800-h.htm
@SillyGoose no there may be obstructions to it
although not typically something you need to worry about for "physical" theories
it's not even clear "quantization" is something that should exist :P
the thing that physically needs to exist is the classical limit, a way to explain why some quantum system are effectively described by a corresponding classical system
Does the classical limit exist properly though
there is no reason at all to expect that to every hypothetical classical system there needs to exist a corresponding quantum system
hm but even a classical limit should only exist for quantum systems that can (in part of full) be described classically, right?
20:20
@Slereah I didn't claim that :P
yeah
@SillyGoose ...that's why I said "some" :P
if we understood the classical limit properly, perhaps its image would be smaller than the set of all classical theories, i.e. the quantization map would not need to be defined so generally as we usually try
I have been curious about how Bohr topos work lately
I wonder if you can use it for that purpose
ah you've caught the nLab bug
I mean yeah :p
apparently this... talks about it
900 pages
bloody hell
I just keep encountering gigantic books lately
20:25
a wonderful first page, however
but which one is quantum and which one is classical
@Slereah I mean half of it is just relatively basic math
@ACuriousMind Always tricky to do though
Like you start reading at chapter 8 and it's all martian math
And then you think maybe I skipped too much
@Slereah no, I just looked at the table of contents and half of it are the appendices A-E which are math
you don't skip, you just don't read the appendices if you already know them
ah yes
The novelty of von Neumann’s abstract approach may be illustrated by the advice
Hilbert’s former student Schmidt gave to von Neumann even at the end of the 1920s:
‘Nein! Nein! Sagen Sie nicht Operator, sagen Sie Matrix!” (Bernkopf, 1967, p. 346).
20:28
I would expect you already know everything except perhaps for the latter half of C
all the cool foundations work seems to be in europe :P
also, why are there apparently two different mathematical physicists working on QM and quantization topics both called Landsman
the author of this book is Klaas, but there's also NP
Hopefully they will give us the Landsman-Landsman theorem
wait it's the same guy
?????
that N.P. must stand for something really horrible if he wants to be called Klaas instead :P
is QFT a required part of a PhD physics curriculum in where you are all based?
20:39
No
We barely even did QFT at mine
there aren't really PhD curricula here - remember most of Europe has a clear threefold progression Bachelor->Master->PhD
the PhD part usually doesn't have a curriculum as such
but no, a generic physics master will not necessarily involve QFT
here in Heidelberg you had to choose a specialization for the master - if you chose theoretical physics (which was implicitly theoretical high-energy physics), QFT was required, but the other specializations didn't require it
You can probably do a physics degree without even qm
no, that was required in the second year of the bachelor :P
Same here we had some qm stuff for the physics license curriculum
But I'm sure there are some more classical focused curriculum
oh right i should have been asking about masters
interesting
20:45
Too much modern academia just wants to be job training and you don't need QM for that many physics jobs
i would have thought that quantum field theoretic methods are widely applicable
to what
for certain jobs and other fields of (not high energy) physics
some methods transfer to condensed matter physics, but then you can just learn them in condensed matter physics :p
@SillyGoose tell me more of those jobs that require QFT methods :P
@ACuriousMind the main thing that springs to mind is that time my lab director told us about how he sold neutrino detection to the army as a way to detect hidden nuclear reactors
Can someone tell me how to show $U_C$ is unitary. I tried to prove that the integrand is Hermitian. But it isn't so atleast manifestly. This is from an exercise sheet. Can someone guide me on how can I approach this problem. I have never seen this expression.
well i feel like one needs to know so much to get to know QFT, including lots of maths. i thought that such maths would be useful in, say, financial modeling or etc.
I mean yeah, but then that's the math, not QFT itself
You could just learn analysis and such
You should learn QFT because you like it really
it's not gonna make you rich and famous
it's not even gonna make you happy
20:53
@SillyGoose quant finance is pretty much the only field where you'll use some of it, sure, but it's mostly statistical methods not specific to QFT
@NairitSahoo how is it not manifestly Hermitian? It's two number operators + two terms that yield each other when daggered
oh maybe my deleted comment still applies :P
but they said the integrand specifically so nevermind actually
I'm not working in software because I actively decided against many other jobs that would've used more of my actual academic training :P
did you not want to be one of the quant ghouls
i do like QFT (now at least). i asked my original question to temper my bias towards thinking QFT is generally interesting (as opposed to interesting to me).
@ACuriousMind Yes, but isn't $e^{iH}=U$ and $U^\dagger=e^{-iH^\dagger}$. So if I want $U^\dagger U=1$, then the $H$ and $\dagger{H}$ commute. But how do I show that the operator and its adjoint commute?
How to show $H H^\dagger=H^\dagger H$ specifically
normal operators that is
20:58
If you show $H$ is Hermitian, then $H = H^\dagger$ and $[H, H^\dagger] = [H, H] = 0$. Or am I misunderstanding your question
@NairitSahoo I have no idea what you're talking about, the $H$ needs to be self-adjoint/Hermitian, i.e. $H=H^\dagger$. This is obvious for your expression.
why not apply your knowledge to communism instead of capitalism
I wonder if China employs a lot of data people for the 5 year plan
@Slereah no, I did not want that particular taint on my soul, though I'm still selling it :P
@SillyGoose I am saying that there are other terms in BCH, right? So if I have $e^{iH}$ and $e^{-i H^\dagger}$ then this yields 1 according to BCH only if the commutator terms in BCH vanish i.e. $[H,H^\dagger]=0$
@ACuriousMind Hmm I get that. But my concern is with BCH.
@NairitSahoo You even said "I tried to prove that the integrand is Hermitian. But it isn't so atleast manifestly." - I claim it is manifestly Hermitian, and ask you to explain why you disagree
the use of BCH here is completely superfluous, and of course if $H=H^\dagger$, then $[H,H^\dagger] = 0$ because operators commute with themselves. You have to be more careful about stating what the problem is.
21:02
Oh yes. Thanks. Sorry I was misreading your replies all this while.
Thank you so much
@ACuriousMind I had another question. For the second part of the question, can we work with the infinitesimal version of $(2)$ i.e. in terms of the integrand (the "generator") and its commutator with the field, instead of the exponential of the generator?
My concern is that this is a discrete symmetry, so the usual Lie group Lie algebra things might not work?
@NairitSahoo how would you "work with the infinitesimal version of (2)"?
what is the infinitesimal version of (2)?
@ACuriousMind $e^{iT} \phi e^{-i T} \approxeq \phi + i[T,\phi]$
no, that's not how it works
where's the infinitesimal parameter and the $\mathcal{O}(\epsilon^2)$ such an expansion usually has?
@ACuriousMind Ah... Is this because it is a discrete symmetry?
@ACuriousMind So if I have to use the exponential itself. How do I operate it on the fields which is mode decomposed? I mean there will be an infinite terms if I expand the exponential.
I'm not solving the exercise for you :P
@ACuriousMind Yeah okay, for sure :) But any hints please? I have been stuck for 3 days. This is not even from my course, but I got invested in this somehow
@ACuriousMind alright but that 3.5 years leap is WILD
You are the personification of the web archive
21:13
@Mr.Feynman I literally just searched the transcript for the link to joshphysics' answer + mentions of "K&K" :P
Using the transcript is just using an instrument properly, the role of your memory was creating that doubt in the first place
Unless you look in the transcript all the time :P
But now I know you're not the kind of guy I want a grudge with. I could see you deliver your revenge after 62 years
2
@Mr.Feynman no, I knew what I was looking for
ACM is keeping tabs on all our progress (or lack thereof) ;)
when drawing quantum channels, is there a usual notation for representing separable outputs of an input state?
Here $\rho_t \xrightarrow{\Lambda_1} \rho_{W^+} \otimes \rho_b$
But, I want to perform an operation $\Lambda_2$ only on $\rho_{W^+}$, so I kind of want to draw the quantum circuit as I did in the drawing above.
(I am also failing to find how to even draw the above using tikz :P)
You can use a gate on a single particle yes
It's basically just $\Lambda_2 \otimes I$
But in circuits the identity matrix is an empty diagram so that's what it looks like
do you know how to add two outputs to a single input in tikz?
21:26
@SillyGoose I just...remember who you people are, is that so weird? :P
2
I have for instance $\begin{quantikz} \rho_t \ & \gate{D_1} & \ \end{quantikz}$ which is just one input into $D_1$ and it draws one output. But I am trying to draw two outputs to $D_1$
@ACuriousMind hehe i was just making a joke
Well, we are all regulars here, it makes sense
 
1 hour later…
22:39
@Slereah lmao facts
@ACuriousMind what's that quote? something like "don't worry so much about what other people think of you, they probably barely remember/ think of you?" I guess it's not true after all. all our most embarassing actions will be remembered forever and the transcript never forgets
whoops that was supposed to be a response to @Mr.Feynman , although still works I guess
23:31
Is there a well-understood reason that geometric quantization is not so successful?

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