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8:00 PM
0
Q: Does Windows 8 have significant changes to how it behaves on a domain?

GaTechThomasWe have new laptops ordered and are debating installing Windows 8 on them. The primary concern at this point is that Windows 8 may behave differently on the domain or need network-related changes. Is this a fair concern?

 
@ScottPack 1/3 of a pint tasters
 
@Iain Pretty respectable I say. That's a little more than half a standard US beer.
 
@ScottPack yes, you can get a good taste from a 1/3 and 10 is reasonable.
 
The last time I attended one of those tasters I achieved double vision by the end of the evening, which is quite an accomplishment for someone 80-90% blind in one eye
 
@David what was it?
 
8:09 PM
@voretaq7 /etc/emond.d/state/state
 
@David mrr?
 
In there was <key>DiskFullNotificationContacts<key> with <string>boss@company.org,me@company.org</string>
 
@RobM this year our local brewery won with my favorite beer - Viking Gold
 
as well as <key>SWUpdateNotificationContacts</key> with <string>boss@company.org</string>
Oddly, adding myself to SWUpdateblabla sent me the disk full email
and HOPEFULLY, now that both strings are empty, it wont send anything, nor will it catch fire and explode, when it tries to run tomorrow
 
mmm beer. Don't think I've tried that @Iain
 
8:14 PM
I'm not getting the migration options when I off-topic close this one. Anyone else seeing it: serverfault.com/q/375757/3356
 
@ScottPack Same
 
same here. Maybe its got a majority of "OT" votes without a migrate, so there's no point in asking?
 
Heh. I just voted it up the same moment somebody voted it down.
 
@ScottPack Migration options are no longer available on questions over 60 days old.
 
@MichaelHampton Ah, that explains it then. I've noticed other questions with only 1 close vote and still no option.
 
8:16 PM
That's about the first good idea they've come up with in this whole migrating crap fiasco.
 
right
 
@MichaelHampton Probably so. Granted, their first idea was "auto-migrate all closed questions to SF".
 
another good idea would be to make all migrators on SO take a turing test
 
Time to start getting ready to start dinner. Probably my last chance for grilling in good weather. Yummo.
 
Limiting the queue to 20/day sure isn't going to help us much.
 
8:17 PM
@RobM More like an IQ test.
 
@RobM you're unlikely o see it unless a local to you pub picks it off the wholesale market. The brewer delivers it in the local area but the spare goes to wholesale
 
I'm assuming most of them are buggy shell scripts based around a regex that was coded after a night on the beer
 
@Adrian Thankfully the Close queueueueue is not limited in that way.
 
@ScottPack Yay it's below 1k!
 
@JeffFerland It was as low as 940 for me but is now 963 :(
 
8:21 PM
@voretaq7 whats mrr
 
"This is an issue..."
:)
 
 
Oh, wrong @wesley ...
From what I understand, though, this is inaccurate. Reference: social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/… "Each core very safely support 8 virtual processors. Logical processors are abstractions of time of the physical processors and really muddy the thinking as they apply to a physical machine one way and to a hypervisor in a different way." — Wesley 43 secs ago
(on a Dual-Core physical CPU)
 
They've certainly muddied his thinking.
 
That'd be awesome...
take my quad-core box and create a 32-core VM.
 
8:30 PM
@ewwhite Right, that would make it, like 8 times faster too, wouldn't it?
 
@ewwhite T'aint me. And did you just call me? I got a call from Chicago area but both my hands were full with mail and I couldn't answer it.
 
And running on a processor that old, you need to pull out all the tricks to squeeze extra performance out of it, including making 4 virtual cores per physical core.
 
@WesleyDavid nah.
 
@ewwhite What do you make of this?
 
@ewwhite 312 area code
 
8:32 PM
not me.
 
@ewwhite Oh, and thought about a price for the x5450 boxxor?
@MichaelHampton Why someone would want to make multiple virtual cores from one physical core is beyond me.
 
@WesleyDavid Hosting providers overcommitting their resources?
 
"OHAI I haz festering sore and want you to pour gila monster spit in it because."
 
@WesleyDavid Oh, don't get a boxXOR. Get a box with full Boolean capabilities, or at the very least, a boxXAND to give yourself more flexibility. :p
 
@MichaelHampton Yeah, but I perceived a slight difference in methodology between explicitly splitting a physical core versus over committing.
Over committing has it's place and is okay, but... that idea that other-wesley was talking about seemed strangely off.
 
8:35 PM
Yeah, he was definitely still confused.
 
@MichaelHampton Oh, that's brilliant. I think I'm going to start a virtual hosting company with my gear at home, now. Can't work out any worse than AWS, right?
 
@HopelessN00b You'll probably have more uptime and lose less data.
 
So I could charge more too... I'm liking this idea.
 
> "Run a silent install of Installation Manager using the Installation Manager installer, see Installing Installation Manager with the Installation Manager installer."
 
@MichaelHampton Oh, and speaking of downtime and data loss, I'm throwing my first 2012 Server into production by Sunday.
 
8:44 PM
Sounds fun!
 
Should be lots of fun, plus I'm installing Server Core, because one of the other admins here is always saying "just use the GUI, here's how," and I think that installing a CLI-only server for him to say that about is a good use of my pent-up malevolence and evil.
I'm starting to wonder if working under me is a sign of stupidity or just masochism.
 
Puppetize everything!
0
Q: Puppetize everything or not?

stderrNotice: there is a lot of theoretical questions. Recently I'm reading about Puppet (and similar systems), which - as I believe - can make my work easier, a lot. But I try - and unfortunately can't - to understand what all I can "puppetize". I can imagine "clouds" or HA clusters, where is the sam...

 
@HopelessN00b both
 
@ewwhite Eh,I could spend 15 minutes answering him and wind up with a -1 vote for my trouble and the question closed anyway, or I could beat him over the head with a copy of Pro Puppet.
 
@Iain Probably. I think I should just refer to it as a huge "educational" opportunity for those who don't mind a [perpetual] trial by fire.
 
8:53 PM
@MichaelHampton I was just about to come in here and comment about something to that effect.
 
@PeterGrace You see what we have to deal with here? :)
 
haha
"How can I be expected to not snark with questions like this?!?!"
4
Hey, I admitted defeat gracefully on that iptables question, it can be done
 
OK, I'll go with the non-answer answer.
 
@PeterGrace Wait, which iptables question?
-1
Q: find common string to block IPs

Thompson SmithCurrently I have all these IPs coming in. Is there a way to find a common string in them and then block the attack via IPTables? I cam use tcpdump like this right? tcpdump -ni eth0 -w file.cap -s 0 -c 1000 not port 80

 
1
Q: In, IPTables, whats the difference between these two rules?

AaronWhat the difference between these two or are they essentially the same thing? iptables -t filter -A FORWARD -s $EXTERNALNET -d $INTERNALNET -p tcp --dport 22 -j ACCEPT iptables -t filter -A FORWARD -s $INTERNALNET -d $EXTERNALNET -p tcp --sport 22 -j ACCEPT

 
8:56 PM
@PeterGrace But I'll go ahead and star that as my new snarkiness defense. "but, but, the ServerFault employee agree with me!"
 
hahahaha, yeah, that'd go over like a fart in church.
 
0
A: Puppetize everything or not?

Michael Hampton Anything that's reasonably similar across all systems (or a subset of them), or that you can base a template off a fact you can get out of facter is fair game. Things that are really unique you probably shouldn't bother, and should just serve the configs out of a filebucket. What falls into e...

 
@PeterGrace Not just churches, FYI. I find a lot of places have a problem with me farting.
@PeterGrace That was pretty awful, admittedly. Technical pedantry, what fun, right?
 
@HopelessN00b Yeah, it was enough of a brainteaser that I started making a test setup at my vps to try it out until Falcon made me stop and think about it.
I half considered deleting my stupidity but it really belonged there for posterity's sake
 
@Adrian Let me know when one of guy calls you.
 
9:01 PM
@JeffFerland what's up, yo!
@JeffFerland sorry for that tweet the other day. I just missed ya.
 
@PeterGrace Hey, you live. I've been wondering why I don't see you in Comms anymore myself.
 
@JeffFerland to be honest, we've been so busy in the datacenter move planning lately that I've been pretty much incommunicado
 
:(
 
Between that and how often I want to erupt into ragefaces when I see people being snarky on serverfault that I try to avoid it here ;)
I will be taking photographs though and putting them on the blog (after resizing of course)
 
9:04 PM
@PeterGrace we're trying to deal with that on the main site - feel free to wield that ♦
 
@MichaelHampton Looks pretty secure to me, on the slightly ironic upside.
 
My "Internetworking w/ TCP/IP" class starts tonight!
 
@Iain I always feel kind of weird being moderatory being a stack employee. I really could be more forceful but I try not to let the diamond hammer come out
Every opinion I have has the "is he talking on behalf of SE or is he talking as a grumpy sysadmin"
generally, grumpy sysadmin.
But I've actually started trying to answer questions again, so, baby steps.
 
@PeterGrace Well, they do say the first step is admitting you have a problem, don't they? Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any 12-steps programs aimed at helping one abstain from being helpful. :o
 
@HopelessN00b Read the entire BOFH archives end-to-end in one sitting.
 
9:12 PM
i'm so excited to learn to subnet by hand
 
haha
 
@David Did you read our canonical Q&A about that?
 
@MichaelHampton neg, link?
 
173
Q: How does IPv4 Subnetting Work?

Kyle Brandt This is a Canonical Question about IPv4 Subnets. Related: How does IPv6 subnetting work and how does it differ from IPv4 subnetting? How does Subnetting Work, and How do you do it by hand or in your head? Can someone explain both conceptually and with several examples? Serve...

 
in other news, whois 2620:111:7000::
 
9:14 PM
@PeterGrace if you've got it flaunt it
 
Not promising anything this year... So no hopes up
 
@MichaelHampton thanks, i'm off for the day
i'll email to myself
 
@Iain Well, I also wasn't elected.
 
@PeterGrace It's about time!
 
@Iain everyone else got it through hard work and perserverence -- kyle and zypher were both elected, I think?
 
9:15 PM
@PeterGrace nor where Kyle/George
 
@MichaelHampton It took an ACT OF CONGRESS to get them to agree to let me get an allocation.
@Iain Oh, well, screw it then. CLOSE ALL THE QUESTIONS
 
@PeterGrace And you got a /44. Very nice.
 
@PeterGrace well, the ones from SO anyway ;)
 
Yep, we were able to list all our offices and datacenters in order to qualify for /44
@Iain haha
a /44 is 16 /48's so it's plenty for us going forward
 
I asked for a /56 for home and got a /48. Still no idea how that happened.
 
9:17 PM
/48 is the minimum routable unit in BGP
 
Hmm, my SQL code isn't working. Should I ask on SF, or SO, or DBA?
 
@HopelessN00b off topic everywhere. N00b.
 
Fine, I'll ask in here.
:p
Select from ALL
WHERE "requestor" IS "a user", DELETE "WorkOrder"
can anyone gimmie teh codez? :p
 
@HopelessN00b Basic SQL on SO, complicated $#!+ on DBA
14
Q: Should basic SQL questions be allowed?

Leigh RiffelI’m going to buck the pervasive mentality here and ask the question:    Why shouldn’t dba.stackexchange.com include basic SQL questions? Previous related discussions: How do we define a question as being "too basic"? Where do we draw the line? Beginner's questions...

 
9:20 PM
DELETE from WorkOrders where (user.id == WorkOrders.userid) or something like that.
Not enough info in that request to glean any kind of actual table names
 
@PeterGrace I think it was a joke. The obvious answer is to shoot the users so they stop entering work orders.
 
@MichaelHampton Hmm. Basic SQL, (select from one DB, on a bunch of tables, insert into another on the same tables) but the problem/failure reason may not have to do with the code... so I'll try DBA.se first.
 
Because basic SQL is (should be) the domain of app developers. Anyone working with databases should understand the concept of "SELECT colset FROM table", even if they don't understand relational algebra. Also, strictly SQL questions like that are "code questions" and Stack Overflow is a "code questions site" and always has been. There's no reason to say "all SQL questions belong on [main]" when on Stack Overflow, which is part of what this policy is in place to prevent. That is a debate that has been had several times now. By encouraging simple SQL Q here, we discourage them on Stack Overflow, thus diluting both sites. — jcolebrand Jul 18 at 14:15
 
@MichaelHampton Yeah, this, that was just a joke.
 
@HopelessN00b Are all those fields in the same table?
Deleting from Table A when you need to do a comparison against Table B is a bit different
 
9:23 PM
@MarkHenderson That wasn't the real query. That was a quick joke.
 
@Iain That's an incredibly succinct answer. +1 to him.
 
e.g. Table A has "WorkOrderNumber,CreatedByUser" and Table B has "UserID,IsSupervisor" and you want to delete everything from A where they are a supervisor in Table B...
 
I think we're too literal today, @MarkHenderson
we were both caught by N00b's net of naught
 
@HopelessN00b Ohwat... so thats how I get greeted in the morning these days, with sick jokes that make me waste my time :p
But it goes to show that "simple" SQL can turn into "$&*% SQL" pretty quickly ;)
 
@MarkHenderson Sorry. I'd make healthy (? non-sick) jokes, but I don't know any. :(
 
9:26 PM
@HopelessN00b I should ask the Syrian in our office to recite one of his non-PC jokes.
I swear in the middle-east they have no idea what political correctness is :p
First thing he said to the indian woman who works here is "Whats up my nigger?"
 
@MarkHenderson Wow. That would so get you fired around here.
 
@HopelessN00b Australians don't have the same sort of racial slurs that Americans have. The N word has always just been something we hear rappers say and during hiphop
But it's still fairly non-PC :P
 
Yeah, plus I find Americans to be particularly sensitive about anything that might even possibly be racist. (Against blacks, at least. Any other kind of racism isn't such a big deal.)
 
hiss!
 
@HopelessN00b Well Australians are fairly racist about everyone who is an immigrant
 
9:31 PM
Anyway, I'm off to home to set up my new internetz... and speaking of saying so the wrong thing to so the wrong person, our CIO overheard me pointing out that it's 25x faster than our T1s, at 5% the price. He was not a happy moron today.
 
It's really disgraceful. We have several Murdoch-owned news outlets here and they're all pretty good at promoting the hate
 
@HopelessN00b Yeah, there's a reason for that...
 
I think he managed to merge BOFH and PHB into one ungodly mess. That's right, today, he was a BPHBFH.
Anyway, catch y'all in a bit.

And yes, I know there's a reason for that, @ewwhite . I wasn't making a value judgement, just pointing our a peculiarity of American society I've noticed. It's one of many, if that makes you feel better. Or worse. Or indifferent.
 
@HopelessN00b FTTH or HFC or something else?
 
@David you don't have a cat, do you? :)
 
9:48 PM
whois untd.com
and why are they running an open relay?
 
@PeterGrace why was it so hard? I thought they where handing IPv6 out like crazy.
 
I got the impression it was SE management holding things up, not ARIN.
 
Yeah they'll hand out a /30 at the drop of a hat
 
grumble SSH is down on my box now - wtf yo, it was working this morning when I left the datacenter!
 
@voretaq7 What? You don't have Monit running to make sure everything stays up?
 
10:01 PM
@ewwhite why? I'll know if things are down.
 
to keep your sshd up.
 
@ewwhite I'm relatively sure sshd is up
 
SYN being eaten by Nidhoggr?
 
@ShaneMadden might have screwed up something in the firewall when I was working on it this morning
mail is up. web is up. So I can't sign on to AIM - no great loss.
I'll go work on it again tomorrow or Friday.
(it's also possible I exceeded the login-retry failure limit from my office and have been blacklisted since I tested it from here this morning, but it's "connection refused" so I don't think it's that)
 
@Adrian
> Best resume typo I've seen in ages: "INTERNATIONAL BUNIESS MACHINES CORPORATION"
I want to buy all my Buniess from IBM
Or at least, but Machines for all my Buniess
 
10:17 PM
EEEE GUMMIBEAR
 
down with markdown!

> test
I guess I can't multiline and quote
 
@JeffFerland you can't multiline and ANYTHING in chat
 
A newline causes spontaneous combustion of the markdown parser.
2
Congrats on 50k! Beat me by 80 :) — Shane Madden 3 mins ago
 
10:46 PM
@jeff-Ferland that wasn't MY resume, was it?
 
@Adrian Nah, you wouldn't have worked for Buniess from 2006-2009 :)
for num in range(391,395):
print "set interfaces vlan unit " + str(num) + " family inet6 address " \
+ "re:dac:ted:" + hex(num).replace("0x","") + "::1/64"
 
@JeffFerland I was supposed to interview a guy who had this as the title on his resumé:
> A STEVE JOBS IN THE MAKING – INNOVATION MATTERS FOR ME!
 
Switch configuration is so hard...
it needs Python!
@mgorven Did you cancel?
 
@JeffFerland No, he did. And I woke up early for it.
 
Nice.
 
10:50 PM
Ha. Sounds like he fits his ego.
 
@Zoredache It is how @MichaelHampton says -- easy to get an ARIN range with proper supporting evidence and cash, just tough to break through the "Don't want to do it right now" that's been said since last year
Nobody seems to understand the circular logic of "I'll get ipv6 when traffic increases"
 
Traffic is already increasing. And in some places IPv6 will be a multi-year project. Those places should have started two years ago.
 
Yup
luckily ipv6 for us will be a mini-project
(famous last words)
Since we use haproxy we can just put ipv6 on the frontends
 
@PeterGrace What do you expect to be the problem areas?
 
The only argument I have that seems to make sense to management is: the longer you wait, the more it will cost.
 
10:53 PM
I actually have a trello board with notes on what will be the problem areas
 
@PeterGrace Get on that. The only reason I'm not there on IPv6 is that you don't have it.
 
Currently: not sure if our CDN supports IPv6; Our sitewide bans table is very ipv4 dependent; some of the code in the backend assumes ipv4 addresses.
Nick said the backend code is easy to fix and they'll do it one of these days
 
@PeterGrace Go DevOps. They'll fix it fast when they realize they can't ban somebody. :)
2
 
but otherwise, we just VRRP ipv6 addresses on our load balancers, then use haproxy to bind to those ipv6's
haproxy readily proxies ipv6 -> ipv4
so we don't need to do a full migration
 
I think this is the first solid example I've found of DevOps theory being used to let production whip the devs rather than the other way around
 
10:56 PM
@JeffFerland Haha, well, luckily our devs are on board with ipv6 too.
It helps to have devs who like to tinker with stuff.
 
Dammit. I do NOT recommend my recruiter.
 
careers 2.0!
 
@Adrian Typo aside, that's one of the cleaner and more pleasing resumes I've seen.
 
@voretaq7 You were at the datacenter today and didn't stop by the office?
 
@Adrian What's up with the recruiter?
 
11:03 PM
@jeff-Ferland I also caught and fixed 8 others. :/
 
Probably the shit jobs the recruiter keeps offering.
 
@PeterGrace cheater.
 
:6625687 C:\Users\mark.henderson>nslookup
Default Server:  enetsdc3.enets.local
Address:  192.168.161.24

> set q=aaaa
> serverfault.com
Server:  enetsdc3.enets.local
Address:  192.168.161.24

Name:    serverfault.com
You FAIL. Mini-project my ass. mini-project should be done by now
Hire me and I'll get your IPv6 deployment done tomorrow
 
Too verbose, too much typing.
error@underground ~ $ host -t aaaa serverfault.com
serverfault.com has no AAAA record
 
@MichaelHampton I can do that too; nslookup -q=aaaa serverfault.com
I tend to find myself staying in nslookup as I generally use it more than just once
So it's just habit
 
11:17 PM
Now do a whois lookup.
 
@MichaelHampton Fuck you
 
whois notmytype.com
One of these days I'll whip up a script that lets me buy a domain name on the command line...
 
@MichaelHampton I'm pissed that TuCows bought my last name before I was out of middle school. BASTARDS.
 
@JoelESalas Not happy with her performance, timeliness, nor attention to detail.
@JoelESalas Same recruiter who forgot to remove a previous customer's meta-data from the document details too.
Maybe not everyone looks at that when you apply for a job, but I happen to do that before selecting for the "to be interviewed" pile.
 
We are currently searching for a JOB TITLE to work in  CITY,
COUNTRY  for DURATION plus extensions. This is a fantastic
contract opportunity for a large multi-national client.

The ideal candidate must have the following skills: SHORT
JOB DESCRIPTION.
 
11:25 PM
@Adrian Drop her like a bad habit
 
@JoelESalas Yeah, I declined to continue using her services for anything else. Took the resume and corrected most of the errors and issues but clearly missed one.
 
@Adrian Nothing beat the one that sent me their screening questions
 
@MarkHenderson Did they just as quickly get RID of the 20 close queue reviews? I was rather suddenly allowed back into it even though I'd used all of them up last night.
 
@ewwhite do you sometimes use consumer grade ssd's in your ZFS setups? Seems like all of them is S-ATA..
 
You know what SO devs need to do? Maintain a fricken' changelog.
 
11:27 PM
@JeffFerland Nice. I've already told 3 recruiters that I'm not interested in 3 months Amazon contracts doing automation in Perl.
 
Changelog? Good god, next you'll be talking about things like source control and WE CAN'T HAVE THAT! THIS IS DEVOPS!
 
@JeffFerland OTOH, they also need to be given the freedom to fix their own shit too. Apparently that's also common in BIG DevOps organizations.
 
They'd pretty much need to make their commit logs public.. and that's probably not gonna happen
 
@ShaneMadden Why not a version controlled text file? Finish a change that needs public mention? Append to CHANGELOG.
 
Anyone Else see an issue with that?
 
11:30 PM
@JeffFerland That's a good idea.
 
@Adrian I have no idea, I don't know what the fuck goes on around here
@Jacob Besides the fact that it's clearly written by a a person with ESL and has poor syntax formatting?
 
@MarkHenderson No, I had to run through that just so XS would see my NICs again
 
@Jacob shrug I don't know much about Xen, except the basic xm list and xm stop etc
And that my first experiences with Xen were hideous and they made me choose VMWare ESXi/vSphere in a heartbeat
 
@MarkHenderson Ah, the Joys of Communications.
 
Apart from declining all of @HopelessN00b's flags lately I haven't had time to do any moderating either
3
 
11:36 PM
@Jacob Aside from that that web page STILL hasn't loaded for me?
 
@MichaelHampton Not sure, it's Citrix's KB
 
Aha, well I've never been able to access their site reliably from here.
 
@MichaelHampton really? define here?
 
Here being at my workstation in my home office.
Or from any other machine here, for that matter.
 
@MichaelHampton Lame my Desktop is everywhere, go XenDesktop :)
 
11:43 PM
@Jacob I was just about to write "What are you, 16" and then backspaced it :P
 
@MarkHenderson Atleast you didn't hit enter
 
Oh wow, that web page finally loaded. After almost 10 minutes.
@Jacob You mean the fact that they can't manage to get detecting NICs right?
 
@MichaelHampton Yeah, I had to remove the "existing cards" and re add the new ones... BS
 
@pauska oooh, SSD's?
@pauska Yes, I sometimes use SATA SSD drives.
SATA drives I like... Sandforce-based SSD's. STEC MachIOPs... I guess Intel is okay now.
I use SATA disks for L2ARC usually. For ZIL, it's still best to go high-end if you need it.
 

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