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00:54
One should watch their words, carefully. Then the '70s ended and nobody ever cared again. The end.
01:08
@alphabet How do you know this? Do you teach this stuff?
@Robusto No, he's not saying /ˈdɑɹəθi/ but /ˈdɔɹəθi/, rather than /ˈdoɹəθi/ like you and I and almost all living Americans today do.
Certainly the mythical American General says /ˈdoɹəθi/. He does this so that people can tell him from the British General.
So, the THOUGHT vowel?
Trump has /ɑɹ/ in horrible. Normal people have /oɹ/.
@DannyuNDos Yes.
That's not how people in America say her name nowadays.
We use the vowel from the song Doe, a deer, a female deer. :)
Doe
/o/
But the Oz guy may be imitating (some, most) Britons who don't neutralize lax/tense into tense before phonemic /ɹ/ like most Americans and some Irishmen (and others) do.
Trump has the weird NYC "affectation" where /oɹ/ becomes /ɑɹ/.
But they don't do it consciously. It's just how the vowel has shifted there.
01:24
They say British English emphasizes T, and American English emphasizes R. I emphasize both.
Hm.
You should probably only emphasize T (aspirate it) which it starts a stressed syllable.
And as for vowels, dicts really should consider re-alloting their IPA.
Yes.
Very much agree.
canTANKerous :)
That said... Is the PALM vowel more like [ä] than [ɑ]?
Sigh.
No, PALM has the THOUGHT vowel for at least a third of Americans, not the FATHER vowel.
01:29
Well, I guess I cannot judge them.
@Cerberus No, not at all. "Harrible" would be the START vowel, which is Trumpy. The Brits say the THOUGHT vowel. Americans normally have the GOAT vowel there but no flipping dippytongs.
@DannyuNDos You may not have heard them. But calm should sound exactly like call me without the final /i/ vowel so with the THOUGHT vowel, just as palm does for so many of us.
Yet still, I think the orthography makes more sense to the British pronunciation.
TRAP / BATH / PALM; LOT / CLOTH / THOUGHT.
They don't say the L. It's weird.
We actually do, or close to it.
There may be some L vocalization going on.
Which may be what's REALLY happening.
It may be an [ʟ].
Maybe.
01:34
Heck, my eldest maternal cousin is American, and she always says my pronunciation sounds British.
Does she live in a particular region of the country?
Oh huh, I was going to guess LA.
That changes the bias I was imagining.
I take back what I didn't say. :)
I cannot guarantee the consistency of my pronunciation anyway. My R occasionally becomes an [ɾ] or an [ʁ].
@Mitch desuetude
01:46
@tchrist IPA is handier!
Because I don't know what the difference is, how Americans pronounce goat.
Well, we say /ow/ but just /o/ before R.
This was about Trump.
Who sounded harrable to me.
Oh my Gad.
30 mins ago, by tchrist
Trump has /ɑɹ/ in horrible. Normal people have /oɹ/.
It sounds like a parody when he says it.
Right, a kind of a sound.
But what doesn't? :)
01:48
What, indeed?
Each morning my cat asks me to give him water in a syringe, and drinks about 80 mL of water (four large 20 mL syringes)
Can he drink normally?
@tchrist Yes, but the doc advised to give him some water to make sure he drinks enough
Because of his reccurent blockages of the urethra
Then you are a wonderful friend.
@DannyuNDos I don't pronounce the /l/ in calm at all; the /l/-less pronunciation is the first one Merriam-Webster lists. It rhymes with bomb.
01:53
@tchrist He was kicking and screaming at first, and to my amazement, now it's his custom to demand water in a syringe
@Xanne I just read too much online. Don't quote me because there's a decent chance I'm wrong. (At least about phonetics; CGEL has made me a somewhat more reliable source about syntax, if I do say so myself.)
Never underestimate any living creature's ability to learn and adapt.
@alphabet Huhh.
@Cerberus In fact, that's the only pronunciation Oxford Learners Dictionary lists: /kɑːm/
I am just surprised that you should rhyme bomb with that.
It is a very different vowel to me.
So bomb and balm are identical to you?
01:58
Calm is simply call with an M at the end. People who can't round their vowels may have trouble with this.
Huh??
Just as balm is just ball with an M at the end.
And palm is just Paul with an M at the end.
For me, call has an o sound but calm has an a sound.
You speak British. :)
Is it that different, then?
01:59
I have your same "o" sound, if you wish to call it that there.
Yes.
(Re: Trump, tchrist may be right that he does have the START phoneme there. Regardless, the Oz guy may have one of the accents still extant (albeit rare) in New England with this feature.)
I have documentation for this somewhere.
@Cerberus Yes, for me and many Americans those are homophones, but not for any Brits.
The people who do not do this are stunned to learn it happens.
@alphabet But that is what I said.
02:00
As in all things.
I have heard Americans pronounce god as gad.
I just can't picture it for ball.
It sounds almost Dutch.
@Cerberus Tom's comment made me remember that there is this NYC-specific phenomenon that only affects some words in that class (horrible among them).
Here: the pronunciation of -alm.
@Cerberus The phoneme found in British bomb and god ended up splitting in American English; some of those words ended up with the THOUGHT vowel and some with the PALM vowel.
So for many of us, calm and walk have the same vowel, no matter how much L you want to think you hear there. Which means it is what you think of as a "short" o.
The writer was surprised to discover this.
@Cerberus Aren't hall and haul homophones for you?
"The almond problem".
@Cerberus Never, that's some weird cot–caught cawnfusion from the coastal elites. Ask Rob.
02:09
Looking up calm on YouGlish and choosing the US option, my /l/-less pronunciation seems to be the more common one. I definitely don't have any consonant sound before the /m/ in that word.
FATHER is not THOUGHT.
How much L remains after some rounding via L vocalization gets done mutating the FATHER vowel into the THOUGHT vowel I cannot say for sure, but it is wrong to pretend there is a CALM vowel.
Talking about almonds here.
Has the same vowel as hall and haul.
Maybe.
It's all ALL.
I'm sure you'd have no trouble travelling in America.
Despite having fifty bazillion square miles of wacky accents, all unalike.
But about Scotland I make no guarantees. :)
@tchrist I think most people today pronounce it /ˈdoɹθi/.
@tchrist Yes.
@Robusto Yep.
@tchrist But Alphabet said so.
02:15
Jack Haley pronounced it with three syllables, which I found rather elegant.
@Cerberus Coastal elite with weird vowel mergers. Doesn't reflect the heartland.
Oh, the heartland.
@Cerberus I personally rhyme balm and palm.
SEE!!!
Also calm.
02:16
@Robusto Yes, so would I?
Exactly.
But now I must to the shower.
With the /l/ in full, uh, view for all three.
@Cerberus With the THOUGHT vowel, or an L-mutated version of same.
Yes.
02:18
@tchrist I cannot imagine that.
Next up: gulf and golf. :)
@Cerberus Alms for the poor are like ALL + M + Z.
In alms, yes!
And all.
And ball.
@CowperKettle Otterageous.
And call.
alms and palms rhyme.
02:19
Hmm.
Pauls and malls rhyme. :)
Hmm actually, I guess I could imagine either for alms.
@tchrist Don't step on my desuetudes.
FRENCH!
I'll pardon yours.
02:21
Look what he says for almond.
Yes, that's fulked up.
@Cerberus Merriam-Webster and OxfordLD don't show the cot/caught merger, but they do show my pronunciation of calm, so it isn't just that.
Apparently, there is variation.
Just use IPA for everything!
almond has all at the start for all of us mons in the heartland. :)
There's l-coloring which isn't a full on l more of an aftertaste.
02:22
@Mitch Yes, but I am having trouble describing that.
Let alone notating it.
@alphabet I don't remember how you pronounced it.
Yeah I don't know either
It is all a big puzzle if you refer to other words instead of IPA.
Sounds dumb like some preacher saying AHHHHHHHMEN!!!!!
But I must away.
02:23
@Cerberus /kɑm/ (phonetically more like [kʰäm])
@Cerberus Hasta mañana.
@alphabet Yes, that is also how I would pronounce it.
Some people say /sæmn/ for 'salmon'
@tchrist Not quite!
@Mitch I think I would.
Me too
02:24
Hasta la madrugada, entonces, en la cual ya tú te encuentras.
But sometimes /sælmn/
L8r?
@Mitch Putting "too much" L there makes it sound French.
Well, like a Frenchman speaking English, I mean.
@Cerberus Yes, many of us share that feature with the UK, except that words like bomb end up in that class also.
@tchrist right
Balm Iran?
I have l-coloring.
Except that in the UK it has a long (literally, in a "takes longer to say" sense) vowel sound. AmE usually doesn't have those.
02:27
You can tell that these people with poopy vowels are monoglot anglophones.
@Mitch Ball my ran.
Balmy is just ball me.
tchrist's accent, of course, does put an /l/ sound in those words. Looking through YouGlish it seems like both are quite calmon.
Travel would help bring perspective.
To the hopelessly provincially locked.
Even German vowels would be terrifying.
Especially before liquids like R and L because terror can liquify the bowels.
Iraque.
iRack
uRock
oRapronobis
aMen
ÿRch
> Contributor Y.I. has pointed out to me that the ANAE Ch. 2, p. 14 had
also observed this phenomenon: “Words with vocalized /l/ formed a
part of this class: calm, palm, balm, almond, though a large number of
North Americans have retained or restored the /l/.” Like me, they
are apparently unsure whether the “l” was retained or restored,
and unfortunately they have not provided any help about the regional
distribution. (In this book, also found by Y.I., the assumption is simply
made that these “l”s are retained because of spelling pronunciations,
So some scholarly sources do recognize Mitch's "vocalized /l/" but not all that many richardaries.
My ancestors weren't from the West Country, though. Plus a couple centuries should wash that away. But there may have been enough settlers from there that we all picked it up.
It's probably not a spelling pronunciation pronunciation guessed from the spelling because it doesn't magically appear in other "silent L" words.
Nobody knows if this is a conservatively retained feature.
02:47
Yeah, I'm not one of those "large number of
North Americans." I'd have assumed it was indeed a "spelling pronunciation" (like putting an /l/ in *salmon*) but I'm willing to believe tchrist's explanation that it instead involves retaining a feature others have lost.
> If this is a conservative feature, then it must have been brought over
to the U.S. from some region of Great Britain or Ireland. However, there
is almost no trace of this “l” anywhere in this area, not even in
Scotland or Ireland, from which many of the conservative features in
American English came. However, my trusty contributor Y.I. has been able
to track down one possible source: what is called the West Country of
England (really the extreme southwest) apparently continues to pronounce
this “l”, according to John Wells in The Accents of English, page
> In any case, the retention of this “l” thus does not seem to depend
on whether or not “cot”=“caught”, since it occurs across the
continent. However, I am fairly certain that all speakers who are
systematic r-droppers always lack the “l” in the “calm” group,
and that all speakers with the father-bother distinction do too. This
makes sense, since the resulting vowel is /ä/, which mainly occurs
as the result of r-dropping. It is less clear why the “yolk” group
would drop the “l” for this group, since the resulting vowel /ō/
Scottish and Irish immigrants are always noteworthy because they do not identify with being London hoi polloi so do not feel like they need to conform to pawsh speech from there, and indeed try hard not to sound like them.
> So this seems to be a conservative feature harking back to a time when the “l” in the red words was pronounced by all speakers, and as such, is probably a regional feature like the others on the map. 8-June-2011
> I should have realized that it wasn’t a bookish pronunciation, since it only applies to certain groups of words, as shown in the first chart above, not to all words with silent “l”, of which there are many. I have listed the main groups in the first chart above. 3-June-2011
Indeed, if I say the name of the website calm dot com out loud, calm and com are homophones--they both have the same vowel as dot, though the vowel in dot is much, much shorter for unrelated reasons.
I'll trust Wells's observation that the West Country retains the L. I don't remember it "sticking out" the times I've been there (like Devon and Bristol), but I probably wouldn't since it's my own accent.
Cardiff likely doesn't count.
And Bristol loves its L's: remember it used to be Bristow!
03:44
@alphabet It is soooo confusing without IPA.
@tchrist That sounds a bit...Cockney?
@Cerberus Maybe?? I'm no expert on Eastenders.
Nor I.
An unexpected -w sound somehow seems lower class to me.
But I don't know.
L > W is something the Brazilians do that can ... annoy? some Portuguese.
> The current name "Bristol" derives from the Old English form Brycgstow,
typically etymologised as 'place at the bridge';[13] "the place called
Bridge by the place called Stow" has also been suggested, the Stow in
question referring to an early religious meeting place at what is now
College Green.[14] However, other derivations have been proposed.[15]
The form Bricstow prevailed until 1204,[16] and the Bristolian 'L' (the
tendency for the local dialect to add the sound "L" to many words ending
OH!
Brycgstow ended in a "neutral vowel" -- a schwa. So they added a liquid like you hear people do when they add an R but Bristolians added L to those instead.
idear = idea + R
Bristol = Bristow + L
As though they have linking-L instead of linking-R there.
Brasil > Brasiu
I'm sure you've heard that from Brazilians.
That's something else. That's L-vocalization, not linking-L.
mal > mau
that sort of thing
04:01
You can also hear some Dutch children do this.
I remember my classmate in primary school saying baw for bal.
And her brother, too.
So it seemed like a family thing to us.
One hears that same thing in very little children here sometimes as well.
So Bristow didn't end in /ow/ back then, because Brycgstow saw its final syllable reduced to schwa, being unstressed.
It's mostly a syllabic L now.
Bris-tl.
I'm not sure I believe in syllabic l in English, but OK.
You can see why they aren't going to drop that L they so carefully put in there. So maybe they don't drop L in the coda in calm etc. Hm.
@Cerberus I didn't want to compose [ˈbɹɪs.təɫ].
Rhymes with crystal.
Liquids in the coda sure are prone to odd effects, aren't they now? R or L, either way.
There's probably some sensible physiological explanation for this that will make perfect sense in retrospect once someone explains it in those terms. But I'm too tired to think now.
Ours are so far back in the mouth there. The Spanish ones are both forward only. Catalan puts L in back, as does Portuguese. Brazilian sometimes puts R in back too, in some regional dialects.
Italian is like Spanish: only forward R and L.
@tchrist Very much so.
04:31
@Cerberus As Geoff Lindsey's Beyond RP states (pp. 71-72), this sort of pervasive vocalization of nonprevocalic /l/ used to be stigmatized "Cockney" feature but has now become more widespread and accepted among Southern British speakers.
Ah, so I was right.
(Sorry for the crappy screenshot of a PDF.)
Cockney Tugboats, 1920s, Liverpool
I was curious as to whether that would've been perceived as an obscenity at the time, and found this rather surprising Green's entry.
One obscene sense of tug dates to the 1600s. The other was originally Australian and first attested in the 1980s.
Second word of the day (well, technically it's Tuesday now): tugmutton. Either "a pimp" or "the penis," according to the aforementioned entry.
05:22
 
2 hours later…
 
3 hours later…
10:43
Hi, guys. Can I check with you these sentences? Do they sound natural enough to say?

1. Disabling your enemy is actually considered war crime.
2. I'm hungry. Let's see what there is to eat.
3. I get pushed away a lot in this life. People hate me.
4. Try to keep the costs at a minimum.
5. We will need at least six months' lead time before production begins.
 
2 hours later…
12:26
Sep. 3, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ 💔 ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ 🎉

My Score: 2030
13:10
❌ 1. Disabling your enemy is actually considered __a__ war crime.
✔️ 2. I'm hungry. Let's see what there is to eat.
✔️ 3. I get pushed away a lot in this life. People hate me.
✔️ 4. Try to keep the costs at a minimum.
✔️ 5. We will need at least six months' lead time before production begins.
'✔️' means correct and natural. '❌' means a grammatical error, mostly right but sounds foreign because of the error (as opposed to a random mistake which would be worse).
"...at least six months' time..." - should there be an apostrophe? Maybe, but maybe not? I don't know. Looks fine to me.
"in this life" yes people say that naturally but sounds a little too philosophical to me. Like, are there any others? Sort of like "To my mind..." (for "in my opinion").
An alternative that is less natural?
A literal, less oblique way to say it would be: "Most of the time, I get pushed away a lot."
Or "Usually, ..."
Yes, it changes things slightly to talking about frequency, but to say "All the time" would be too much.
Agree with Mitch but would use: Try to keep costs to a minimum.
@alphabet What is that source (and link)
13:25
Sep. 3, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
💔 ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ 🎉

My Score: 1920
@Lambie Oh. Yes. That's better. Both are natural sounding, but 'to a minimum' is more common.
I honestly didn't know the answer to #1.
@Robusto From far enough away, the broken heart looks like a regular heart.
That's the lamest country song ever.
@Mitch And that's saying something.
Maybe it's a country song written by AI?
@Robusto LLMs are a mirror of our dullest selves.
Soon we instead of blaming the dog when we fart, we can blame the AI.
Nobody will know the difference, or care.
Deep Thoughts From AI, prompted by me.
At least the AI is getting the punctuation at the end right.
13:35
@Mitch AI would never write that sentence.
It's way too idiomatic.
@uhoh I am aware that you came here expecting that people here would know the definitive answer, but I for one am at a loss.
Is it "A number of items..." 'are' or 'is'?
Is the reflexive pronoun for 'singular they', is it 'themselves' or 'themself'?
@Mitch Geoff Lindsey, Beyond RP pp. 71-72 on L-vocalization
For the record, it -should- be "It's between you and me" but somehow it's acceptable to say the excrescent "between you and I".
@alphabet link please!
@uhoh It's "what are," but "thruster" needs to be plural.
@Mitch It's an (e)book; either buy it or pirate it.
@alphabet Oh.
Do they have an entire chapter on 'r'? I would read that book just for that.
I would spend an extra 1/2 hour in a book store, -not- buying the book but just looking like I'm browsing. Sure I'd buy a coffee at the cafe.
If there were a cafe at the library that had the book, that would be optimal.
13:41
@alphabet Which brings up another question. Are parenthetical beginning vowels of words part of the a/an dynamic?
I have a place in my heart for books that just do one thing everywhere.
@Mitch Don't forget the reclining chair.
And that they don't shush snorers.
@Robusto That's a bit much to ask, but since wishes are free, yes!
@Mitch Then let's make it that they shush all other snorers except you!
@Robusto "Sir? Sir? We've been closed for the past hour and have to lock up."
"Sir?"
13:43
@Mitch "But I haven't finished my book yet!"
@Robusto I'd say yes. I think the rule is entirely context-free. If the following sound is a vowel, who cares about the grammar, it becomes 'an'.
@Robusto "Also, I can't move until the cat does."
What if the cat is an ocelot?
Well, I'm pretty sure you still don't want to move.
What if the cat is actually a hippo? I guess you couldn't move anyway in that case.
And librarians are known not to mess with hippos. It's a proven fact.
So there's this one book by Donald Knuth, the computer scientist, called "3:16". Knuth, while fully integreated into godless academia, is a devout Lutheran, even is an accomplished organist (I'm fairly certain for his local congregation, but is accomplished enough to have been allowed to play at European instruments.
And part of his devotion has led him to write a book that takes the third chapter sixteenth verse of every book in the Bible, and write a short analysis (is that an exegesis?).
13:51
@Mitch Exegesis Saves!
@Robusto I remember in college people (OK just 'person') would have a button that said "Save Soviet Jewry" (it was that long ago!) and the response of pretty much everyone who saw that button (OK everyone = me and I imagined the people next to me) wondered if they thought it was a good investment, you know save it now and sell it later at a higher price.
@Robusto If the cat was actually a hippo, that book you're reading is actually an anaconda and you got a lot on your plate so I'll let you get on with it.
@Robusto Librarians know things that we don't.
@Mitch I remember a sign that said "Save Soviet Jews" and underneath someone had written "Win Valuable Prizes!"
Anyway, Knuth missed his chance at doing the same with Euclid's Elements.
And of course he would do the 47th proposition of every book. I.47 is the pythagorean theorem.
3:16 is pretty lame so it wouldn't be a good choice. I.47 is what I think the kids these days would call a 'banger'.
> Proposition 16. The straight line drawn at right angles to the diameter of a circle from its end will fall outside the circle, and into the space between the straight line and the circumference another straight line cannot be interposed, further the angle of the semicircle is greater, and the remaining angle less, than any acute rectilinear angle.
Corollary. From this it is manifest that the straight line drawn at right angles to the diameter of a circle from its end touches the circle.
Which is a victorian translation of an awfully long statement that we would just say "Here's a tangent to a circle"
So, not particulary earth-shattering.
Well...
In the course of human intellectual progress (I mean do we really know what those dolphins are talking about), tangent lines are not nothing.
@Robusto Nice.
Mostly people just read the button as "Save Soviet Jewelery".
14:18
@Robusto Does nit matter whether that sleeping cat is a poohbear or a possum, a warthog or a waterhorse?
I don't believe in parentheses.
They aren't real.
If you said one I dint hear it.
@tchrist That's sad, because parentheses believe in you. And they only want to make you a better person.
They want to contain me. That hurts.
Like: How many babies is a possum momma blessed with in an average litter?
You know right off the bad that momma possum and momma opossum are different gals.
#WhenTaken #189 (03.09.2024)

I scored 776/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 6 km - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 198 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 1919 km - 🗓️ 9 yrs - ⚡ 139 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 1724 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 155 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 447 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 185 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 9196 km - 🗓️ 4 yrs - ⚡ 99 / 200

https://whentaken.com
@tchrist Amoebae never ponder such questions.
@Robusto They're too busy listening to the little chorale that's always playing inside them between their communicating organelles in perfect harmony.
 
1 hour later…
15:33
Sep. 3, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
✅ 💔 ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ 🎉

My Score: 1810
#WhenTaken #189 (03.09.2024)

I scored 878/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 3 km - 🗓️ 14 yrs - ⚡ 173 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 1197 km - 🗓️ 9 yrs - ⚡ 153 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 810.2 metres - 🗓️ 6 yrs - ⚡ 193 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 159.0 metres - 🗓️ 15 yrs - ⚡ 170 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 886.4 metres - 🗓️ 8 yrs - ⚡ 189 / 200

https://whentaken.com
15:50
Wordle 1,172 4/6

⬛⬛🟩🟩🟩
🟩⬛⬛⬛⬛
🟩⬛🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
Tetris
Daily Octordle #953
6️⃣9️⃣
🕛8️⃣
7️⃣🕚
5️⃣4️⃣
Score: 62
Daily Sequence Octordle #953
4️⃣5️⃣
6️⃣7️⃣
8️⃣9️⃣
🔟🕚
Score: 60
16:14
Wordle 1,172 3/6

⬛🟨⬛⬛🟩
🟨⬛⬛🟨⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
16:29
Daily Octordle #953
7️⃣🔟
🕚9️⃣
8️⃣5️⃣
4️⃣3️⃣
Score: 57
Daily Sequence Octordle #953
2️⃣3️⃣
5️⃣6️⃣
7️⃣8️⃣
9️⃣🔟
Score: 50
Wow, my lowest Sequence score ever.
@jlliagre I discovered that in Sequence you can guess a wrong word on one panel that automatically fills a later panel. Who knew?
17:16
@Robusto Ha ha, never happened to me but that makes sense. Imagine you have seven misses on the first panel then fill the whole game on the eighth guess :-)
@Mitch what I expected is that people here would think that they knew the definitive answer. There's a difference ;-)
I still feel that what I have in the title currently is not incorrect, and seems to read smoothly and clearly. It may not be the only way, but I don't think it's definitively wrong.
17:41
@jlliagre That would be ... weird.
@uhoh agree that the two alternatives seem just fine. A high school teacher might disagree and say 'oh this one is definitely correct and this other definitely wrong.'
4 hours ago, by alphabet
@uhoh It's "what are," but "thruster" needs to be plural.
(not a high school teacher or professional where grammar is within their professional domain, as far as I know, but reliable nonetheless)
@Mitch I agree with that.
Do people actually know things nowadays or is pretty much everything a snake eating its own tail of poorly edited wikipedia articles redigested into bald statements of fact that are used to justify wikipedia articles?
@Robusto 'are' was my first impression upon being asked, but I don't know that I would have been bothered if it hadn't been mentioned.
@Mitch I got sidetracked trying to think of risqué jokes on "thruster" but couldn't come up with anything that pleased me.
Strands #184
“Striking sounds”
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18:00
I just realized that the descriptions of definitions (in M-W) found with the page link in search results (IDK what those are called. Meta descriptions?) are not necessarily actual content and may be, in fact, the exact opposite. Are they AI generated? IDK how that works. Example follows: housebroken.
www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › housebrokenHousebroken Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
Learn the meaning of housebroken, an adjective that describes a pet trained to excrete indoors. See examples, synonyms, word history, and related entries.
18:13
I was fawning over small puppies, specifically a Havapoo (too cute, IK), and I couldn't remember the old term for "potty training" a puppy, right off the bat. But I do know that housebroken puppies Hav-a-poo outddors, not indoors. Pun inescapable.
18:39
@Robusto Occupational hazard.
or avocational hazard
18:55
@Robusto Hard. I only got three words after playing for a while.
It seems clear that you should say "I used to play.", not "I use to play.". But should you say "Did it used to be good?" or "Did it use to be good?"?
@Kodiologist - Well here's an article on that question -- I can't answer for its accuracy 5minuteenglish.com/lessons/grammar/use-to-used-to
@Kodiologist Decomplexify. How would you make that as a regular statement? "It did used to be good." Not simple enough... go one more step: "It used to be good."
You could use a different strategy such as "Was it once good?"
@HippoSawrUs "housebroken, an adjective that describes a pet trained to excrete indoors"
Yeah that seems wrong, unless there's a missing 'not'.
19:04
Strands #184
“Striking sounds”
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🔵🔵🔵🔵
🟡
Or a missing 'trained to excrete indoors in the litter box' if all you care about is cats.
@Mitch That's a good point. It's clear that you should say "It did use to…" and not "It did used to…", so the same goes for the interrogative form.
@Kodiologist yes, I made a mistake in my first transformation. But the primal form would be "It used to be...". In "It did use to be..." the past tense is in the 'did'.
But it is unlikely that one would ever utter "It did use to be..."
So "used to be" is actually a fixed phrase at this point, so the following works:
A: This place was never any good.
B: It used to be good.
A: Nah, I don't remember it that way.
B: No, it DID used to be good!
19:45
@Mitch Thank you very much for your extensive answer.
@Lambie Thank you a lot for your two cents too. Very much appreciated.
@Kodiologist "Did it use" is correct, but there's a reason for the confusion about "use to" vs "used to", namely that they're almost always pronounced identically.
20:33
Unusual fact of the day: South African law allows same-sex marriage and polygamy, but not the combination of the two, i.e. a man can have multiple wives but at most one husband. Former President Jacob Zuma has four wives.
 
2 hours later…
22:36
@Mitch So is it an inaccurate AI meta description generator?
23:10
@alphabet Is it invertable? Can a husband have wives who have another husband ? But the two husbands are not married while still having multiple wives ?
(sounds like a question in Mesh theory)
23:57
@HippoSawrUs you need to give an exact link in order to reproduce. When I visit Merriam-Webster, I get:

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