English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

00:11

@jlliagre Good job! Keep trying!

tchrist

00:46

@Robusto They'll figure it out. How much they'll tell us is less certain.

Connoquenessing Creek

> In a statement, a spokesman for the Secret Service said that one spectator at the rally was killed and two were critically injured. The suspected gunman “fired multiple shots toward the stage from an elevated position outside the rally venue,” the spokesman, Anthony Guglielmi, said

Okay, that's a complete security failure. They didn't bother to secure the sight lines!!! Everyone knows that without that you have no security. Look how ultra careful the Secret Service were about that for the platform they used for Biden's inauguration. Heads will roll, mark my words.

tchrist

01:24

I'm so glad SNL are out on summer break.

CowperKettle

01:45

Curiously, Mussolini was left with a bloody ear after an unsuccessfull assassination attempt

No. It was nose.

> The next year, on April 7, 1926, Violet Gibson shot a pistol at Mussolini, which grazed his nose. He was bandaged and continued on to give his scheduled speech.

> Gibson, the daughter of the Irish Lord Chancellor, was nearly lynched, later jailed, and spent the remainder of her life in an asylum.

jlliagre

CowperKettle

@tchrist It's horrible that a person was killed.

tchrist

02:04

@CowperKettle Yes. And two, I believe, were critically injured as well. We cannot accept a society that sees violence as a legitimate means for settling political differences.

No matter whether it is state violence or individual violence.

> Medgar Evers, June 1963
John F. Kennedy, November 1963
James Chaney, June 1964
Michael Goodman, June 1964
Andrew Schwerner, June 1964
Malcom X, February 1965
Martin Luther King Jr., April 1968
Robert F. Kennedy, June 1968
Fred Hampton, December 1969

> George Wallace, May 1972. Survived.
Ronald Reagan, March 1981. Survived.

There were many more. And those are all within my own lifetime.

CowperKettle

> Outside of school, Lawrence was a promising cyclist who racked up 10,000 miles in 2022 - but this mileage significantly reduced in 2023, due to having to do his school work. darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/…

I wonder how it's possible at all to attend school as a 16 yo, and to rack up 16 000 km.

tchrist

I have no idea.

CowperKettle

There will be zero time left for sleep.

tchrist

Maybe he didn't do any school work that year, and had to catch up the next year.

Michael Rybkin

Could you guys please tell if this sentence sounds fine to you?

I can't believe how hard he hits that drum. I'm surprised it hasn't busted open.

tchrist

02:20

@MichaelRybkin Well, using bust to mean burst is considered nonstandard. It's hardly uncommon, though.

So I would say hasn't burst open instead.

user 85795

Or "hasn't broken open."

tchrist

@CowperKettle I can't see him ever wearing an earring. Well, nose ring here. Still.

Burst open suggests pressure from within. Broken open is neutral.

There's an old correlate, burst asunder, that you seldom hear in casual street banter these days.

user 85795

adverb Archiac •Literary
apart; divided.
"those whom God hath joined together let no man put asunder"

tchrist

02:37

> 2016 Her current work is eye-wateringly vibrant; think limbs flung asunder. —Irish Independent (Nexis) 3 September (Weekend section) 18

> 1975 She had ruled for five years and the realm was torn asunder with hatred and fear and bloodshed. —J. Clavell, Shōgun i. 19

> 2016 A union that is now at real risk of being rent asunder by the EU referendum. —Grimsby Tel. (Nexis) 23 December 16

"Put asunder" is the seriously archaic one.

> to put asunder: to separate, part; to split up.
Frequently paraphrasing or alluding to the words used in the marriage ceremony of many Christian denominations, based on Matthew 19:6 (see quot. 1526).

Dates to ~1450.

user 85795

Asunder makes me wonder 🤔

tchrist

> 3. a1325– Into separate parts; in two; into pieces. Chiefly with reference to violent action, with verbs such as rend, tear, cut, break, burst, split, etc. Also figurative.

> 2.b. a1325– Apart or away from each other in direction or motion.

> 2. With reference to two or more people or things.
2.a. Old English– Apart or separate from one another.

CowperKettle

Me Like Rock - (Caveman Rock Song)

►

tchrist

> Now somewhat archaic or literary.

There are obsolete senses as well.

The eldest sense is one such.

Michael Rybkin

@tchrist Thank you a lot.

tchrist

02:43

> 1. Old English–1703 † Separately, individually, apart from others; (sometimes) spec. privately, in private. Obsolete.

Michael Rybkin

@user85795 Thank you too.

tchrist

@MichaelRybkin You're welcome.

> 4. † 4.a. c1405–1888 In predicative use: distinct in kind or nature; different, unlike. Obsolete.

> 4.b. c1425–1879 So as to be able to distinguish or tell apart two or more similar things. Usually in to know asunder. Obsolete.

user 85795

The adjective survived in Middle English only in compounds, and is preserved in asunder.

Re: sunder

tchrist

@user85795 Are you sure?!

user 85795

That's what etymonline says.

tchrist

02:46

Well, that's nonsense.

The sundering sorrow, the sundering sea, his sundered heart, houses that had been long sundered

I count 201 uses of sunder in Tolkien.

But that has duplicates due to the corpus I'm using.

user 85795

:O

tchrist

> 'But to the Riders of the Mark it seems so long ago,' said Aragorn, 'that the raising of this house is but a memory of song, and the years before are lost in the mist of time. Now they call this land their home, their own, and their speech is sundered from their northern kin.' Then he began to chant softly in a slow tongue unknown to the Elf and Dwarf; yet they listened, for there was a strong music in it.

> `Welcome!' the Elf then said again in the Common Language, speaking slowly. 'We seldom use any tongue but our own; for we dwell now in the heart of the forest, and do not willingly have dealings with any other folk. Even our own kindred in the North are sundered from us. But there are some of us still who go abroad for the gathering of news and the watching of our enemies, and they speak the languages of other lands. I am one. Haldir is my name.

> The others too now turned their eyes eastward. Over the sundering leagues of land, far away they gazed to the edge of sight, and hope and fear bore their thoughts still on, beyond dark mountains to the Land of Shadow. Where now was the Ring-bearer? How thin indeed was the thread upon which doom still hung! It seemed to Legolas, as he strained his farseeing eyes, that he caught a glint of white: far away perchance the sun twinkled on a pinnacle of the Tower of Guard.

The adverb and adjective are obsolete. The verb, particularly as participles, is not quite so.

> 2015 The England from which they have chosen to sunder themselves is now none of their business. —Sunday Telegraph (Nexis) 14 June (Features section) 28

That was from this sense:

> 1.b. To set oneself apart or become separate from a person or thing; (of two or more people or things) to become detached or disconnected; to separate; to part.
1.b.i. Old English– transitive (reflexive). Usually with from.

The adjective and adverb senses petered out at the end of Middle English.

There was one queer compound preserved through 1929.

In Orkney Norn.

> 1929 Sinder-casten, of a ‘rig’ of land—ploughed inwards from the furrow on either side; each ‘peat’ of the ploughing is thus thrown outwards, or apart, or ‘asunder’. —H. Marwick, Orkney Norn 155/2

Sinder-casten = asunder-cast

Something like that.

I have no truck with the Norns.

user 85795

03:04

Thanks 👍

tchrist

Norn language

Norn is an extinct North Germanic language that was spoken in the Northern Isles (Orkney and Shetland) off the north coast of mainland Scotland and in Caithness in the far north of the Scottish mainland. After Orkney and Shetland were pledged to Scotland by Norway in 1468–69, it was gradually replaced by Scots. Norn is thought to have become extinct around 1850, after the death of Walter Sutherland, the language's last known speaker, though there are claims the language persisted as late as the 20th century. == History == Norse settlement in the islands probably began in the early 9th century...

Norns

The Norns (Old Norse: norn [ˈnorn], plural: nornir [ˈnornɪr]) are deities in Norse mythology responsible for shaping the course of human destinies. In the Völuspá, the three primary Norns Urðr (Wyrd), Verðandi, and Skuld draw water from their sacred well to nourish the tree at the center of the cosmos and prevent it from rot. These three Norns are described as powerful maiden giantesses (Jotuns) whose arrival from Jötunheimr ended the golden age of the gods. The Norns are also described as maidens of Mögþrasir in the Vafþrúðnismál. Beside the three Norns tending Yggdrasill, pre-Christian Sc...

> Norn grammar had features very similar to the other Scandinavian languages. There were two numbers, three genders and four cases (nominative, accusative, genitive and dative). The two main conjugations of verbs in present and past tense were also present.

> Like all other North Germanic languages (except West and South Jutlandic), it used a suffix instead of a prepositioned article to indicate definiteness as in modern Scandinavian: man(n) ("man"); mannen ("the man"). Though it is difficult to be certain of many of the aspects of Norn grammar, documents indicate that it may have featured subjectless clauses, which were common in the West Scandinavian languages.

For more on Norn, ask Janus or Rory. :)

user 85795

Rory is cool. 😎

He seems to know a lot about internet security.

alphabet

Notorious raccoon Casey Anchovies is acquitted on charges of theft

CowperKettle

03:27

photo captured by Doug Mills

user 85795

The assassination attempt that started the second American Revolution.

2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally

On July 13, 2024, former United States president Donald Trump was shot in the right ear during a shooting at a rally in Connoquenessing Township, west of Butler, Pennsylvania. Law enforcement and witnesses stated that the suspected shooter fired from a roof outside the rally venue using an AR-15–style rifle, before being killed by a Secret Service counter-assault team member. Trump was shot in the upper right ear and was quickly surrounded by the Secret Service; he pumped his fist in the air for multiple seconds before being rushed to a vehicle. He was then sent to the hospital in stable condition...

Robusto

03:55

@CowperKettle You can do it on 200 miles per week. An hour a day and three on weekend days.

So that's 20 miles a day plus 50 each on weekend days.

Less if he's faster than me, which would be no surprise.

Less time, that is. Or more miles.

alphabet

@user85795 Just wait till Schoolhouse Rock gets their hands on this one

Robusto

@alphabet I used to live about two miles from the "rude bridge that arched the flood."

alphabet

04:12

@Robusto And now Lexington is the sort of suburb where they don't want public transit because it might bring "certain urban elements" into town.

Apr 19 at 0:44, by alphabet

Come to Boston! You can...OK, there's pretty much nothing to do here and no good reason to visit. You can have a tour guide tell you about how we invented freedom or whatever, I guess.

tchrist

04:26

@CowperKettle That's a pretty danged unlikely shot! I'm astonished.

@user85795 One of the times is wrong in that article. All times given should be in EDT, but one was mistakenly given in EST.

CowperKettle

An electric bicycle I saw yesterday

With a bottom bracket motor

user 85795

@tchrist thanks 🙏 for pointing that out.

alphabet

04:46

Jul 14, 2023 at 4:54, by alphabet

@tchrist I think pretty much everyone uses "EST" to mean "ET," i.e. EST or EDT depending on the season.

Jul 14, 2023 at 4:56, by alphabet

Much to the chagrin of those who insist on the correct terminology.

Wow, that post was a year ago to the day.

CowperKettle

A bracket-mounted motor costs more than a brand new electric bicycle with a motorized wheel.

No wonder I've only ever seen a single one.

CowperKettle

05:03

I Let Jesus Take The Wheel,And He Crashed The Car (rare 1970's country vinyl)

►

> Jesus turned water into wine. He drank way too much water to drive.

"I pray to God that His son wouldn't crash" LOL

CowperKettle

06:10

A Shrek festival took place in Yekaterinburg e1.ru/text/entertainment/2024/07/14/73828796

Harry Potter and the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant

►

BBC interview with a guy outside the security perimeter who claims he saw the shooter before he fired, and 'kept warning the secret service for 2 minutes' in vain

Vikas

06:30

Elon Musk retweeted it.

SmokeDetector

08:05

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body (95): what do you mean by Nelson driving instructor?‭ by jimi osko‭ on english.SE

CowperKettle

09:28

> Research from Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis reveals how brain inflammation triggers extreme muscle weakness across several diseases, including viral infection, bacterial infection and Alzheimer’s disease genengnews.com/topics/translational-medicine/…

I wonder if cases of depression could involve this mechanism at least partially

My "depression" started with bouts of extreme post-exertional weakness after 20 April 2018

> Among COVID-19 patients, inflammatory SARS-CoV-2 proteins have been found in the brain during autopsy, and many long COVID patients report extreme fatigue and muscle weakness even long after the initial infection has cleared.

Interleukin 6

Interleukin 6 (IL-6) is an interleukin that acts as both a pro-inflammatory cytokine and an anti-inflammatory myokine. In humans, it is encoded by the IL6 gene. In addition, osteoblasts secrete IL-6 to stimulate osteoclast formation. Smooth muscle cells in the tunica media of many blood vessels also produce IL-6 as a pro-inflammatory cytokine. IL-6's role as an anti-inflammatory myokine is mediated through its inhibitory effects on TNF-alpha and IL-1 and its activation of IL-1ra and IL-10. There is some early evidence that IL-6 can be used as an inflammatory marker for severe COVID-19 infection...

I know that IL-6's expression is elevated by a factor of four in the corneas in keratoconus.

But that might be just part of local signaling.

Vikas