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4:05 PM
this user is just going through the recently active and answering them all in go lol
 
21 mins ago, by Sʨɠɠan
man this one guy just speedrunnning challenges with go
 
I felt like saying it again
 
@Ginger Isn't that what everyone does?
 
but not in go
 
go is cool, we need more golfs in go
 
4:11 PM
i heard bad things about go
 
Go is pretty boring for golfing.
 
I think golfing in practlangs is much more interesting than golfing langs
 
It's not that go is a praclang.
It's just not very interesting.
 
You actually have to make efficient algorithms rather than remove spaces
 
^ ^^
 
4:13 PM
You are entitled to your opinions
 
For go?
 
forgo :skull:
 
Yea and what makes a language interesting for golfing
 
You seem to be talking about praclangs in general.
Have you tried golfing in go?
It's just kind of boring.
 
I've golfed in rust which is quite similar
 
4:14 PM
Rust is way more fun to golf in.
And go and rust are not very similar.
 
waves then lurks
 
Ok I actually know very little about golfing in Go so maybe you are right
I made wrong assumptions about why you dislike the language apperently
 
Go is fine as a language.
Although it has a bunch of limitations that make me feel like it's not suitable for most modern systems.
 
like?
 
4:18 PM
The way it handles null is insane.
And it's types are extremely weak.
 
Out of the loop, how does it handle null?
 
doesnt give me a clue (sniped) :P
 
When I researched it last the lack of generics was a dealbreaker for me but it seems they added them since
 
same
but imo theres no reason to learn go
c and kotlin cover all use cases
if anything, rust
 
Especially since rust exists
 
4:22 PM
The issue with nil is that any field in a struct can just be nil. So if you don't initialize a field in a struct or if you read from something that's missing a field you have a nil.
 
So everything is nullable by default?
 
No.
It's a lot better than that.
It's just that you don't get checks on your structs.
 
oof
now i see what you mean by a weak type system
 
The issue with the weak type system is separate.
Everything is basically a C struct.
Which sucks when you need to send database queries.
 
@GrainGhost isnt that basically rust?
 
4:24 PM
Because either you need a very carefully designed API (which doesn't seem to exist) or you are just going to be using string typing.
 
Are only references nullable or primitives too?
 
i gotta learn rust someday
 
@Sʨɠɠan What about today?
 
@Sʨɠɠan Rust has enums.
 
@mousetail no time
@GrainGhost ah
 
4:25 PM
Basically because of issues with typing DB stuff is basically in the stone age.
 
Yea and enums can have associated values which is a really OP feature
 
so no enums in go?
@mousetail yeah thats what i love about JVM enums
 
enums in rust are basically like safe union structs
 
Go might have enums, but they are very weak if they exist.
 
At least better than python enums
 
4:28 PM
@mousetail on the jvm its instance controlled classes
 
I'm not sure what the point of enums is if you don't believe in types.
 
enums are literally implemented as static fields on a class
@GrainGhost enumeration?
 
Just use ints.
 
@GrainGhost Python has had gradual typing for a while, enums work with the type system
 
@mousetail typing in the sense that you can dictate types, etc. and there's new strict type casting controls in 3.10+
but it's only a 'loose' dictation of types and type hints
 
4:29 PM
Yea you need external tools like mypy to actually check if the types are correct
 
o desmos changed its logo for the 3rd time this year
 
right, or an IDE that does that for you (PyCharm is fun xD)
 
Yea, but PyCharm is very forgiving. It's no substitute for mypy
 
Wow leave it to python to invent something worse than gradual typing.
 
It's literally the same thing
 
4:31 PM
@mousetail I've never used mypy, but Pylance is strict enough for me
 
@mousetail true. though it's very good at swearing at you when it sees you're putting a string in where it wants bytes, etc. right in your face with highlighting xD
 
Pylance is good
 
a good programmer though will KNOW what the types are though hence no breakage xD
5
 
ive been cloned
3
 
@ThomasWard I prefer using a programming language that only has one datatype.
 
4:39 PM
@Adám If you had to use only one data type, which would it be?
 
@Adám assembly?
 
@mousetail Array.
@Sʨɠɠan APL.
 
Makes sense
 
APL has no tuples, strings, hashmaps, etc.
And even simple numbers are arrays you can index into.
 
I wonder what data types are turing complete:
boolean: No
int: No
function: Yes
string: Yes
Optional<>: Maybe
 
4:41 PM
@Adám ah yes adam advertising apl again
@Adám how does it manage strings then
 
I'm not sure how int is not turing complete bu string is.
@Sʨɠɠan (It cheats)
 
@Sʨɠɠan Arrays of characters.
 
ah
whats a character then
 
An array :-)
 
@mousetail how can data types be turing complete?
 
4:42 PM
@mousetail Rule 110 and GoL are Boolean, yet TC.
 
If you could build a language having only 1 data type could you make it turing complete
 
Rule 110 isn't really TC.
 
I'm specifically assuming a finite amount of that data type
So no 110
 
It's quite an exaggeration.
 
@mousetail Then nothing is strictly TC.
 
4:43 PM
^ lol
 
@GrainGhost but gol is
 
Like finite toplevel elements, finite variables on the stack that can have pointers to infinite others on the heap
 
@Adám Functions are? You only need 1.
 
@mousetail numbers are TC, just ask asm
 
@GrainGhost But the function needs infinite complexity.
@Sʨɠɠan asm isn't TC.
 
4:44 PM
I guess if you had boundless numbers they could represent strings
 
strictly its not
but if it had infinite memory, yes(?)
 
@Adám Yes, which is fine, because we define functions to be infinitely complex. We do not define booleans to be complex.
 
Who has read Gödel Escher Bach?
 
@mousetail fun fact there's a mypy plugin for pycharm it seems
 
I might be misunderstanding things but aren't the multiplication/division variant of minsky machines turing complete with 1 integer? would that make integers a turing-complete data type?
 
4:46 PM
@Sʨɠɠan I find it funny that their app is still green and uses the old logo :P
 
ikr
 
I think the way we are talking about it a datatype "being Turing complete" is just that data type having an infinite number of members.
 
@mousetail How is a boolean not turing complete?
All computers use 8 booleans in a byte
And they're TC (in theory)
And a data tyoe can hardly be classiified based on whether it's "turing complete", that has nothing to do with the data itself
 
ints are TC because brainf
 
BF is TC with two cells
 
4:48 PM
5 mins ago, by mousetail
If you could build a language having only 1 data type could you make it turing complete
 
Or I guess for some people having at least two members is enough for turing completeness.
 
Let me define it better:

Assume each program must declare a finite number of variables. This is true in most programing languages. Each variable has a type. For which types would this language be turing complete?

Any data type that only has a finite number of possible values would obviously not be TC since a TC can theoretically output infinitely big values
 
false
booleans are TC and they only have 2 values
 
Not if you have a finite number of them
 
then nothing else is tc
 
4:50 PM
That would mean only functions are tc?
 
Functions are though since each function can contain a infinite number of other functions
 
everything in a computer is built on booleans
 
lists too since they can contain a infinite number of other lists
 
Is knowing the basics of assembly beneficial? / Should I learn assembly?
 
Yes, though you can get away learning a simpler assembly than x86
 
5:03 PM
@Sʨɠɠan Not necessarily, but also irrelevant.
 
yay i got an esolangs acc now :P
 
a what?
 
CMM: Can I exclude Python imports from my bytecount if I specify them in the answer header? (i.e. "Python + threading, xx bytes)
 
@mathcat an esolangs.org account
@Ginger yes
 
nice
 
5:11 PM
infinite list question: is it sensible to define an infinite list as a function that maps indexes to list elements?
 
Wait then why have I been putting from random import* at the bottom of all my answers
 
this seems like the natural / obvious implementation, but i have no experience
so i just wanna be sure im not crayzay
 
@thejonymyster Yes
 
woohoo ty
 
In many logic languages lists and functions are literally the same thing
like z3
 
5:27 PM
you know it's gonna be a good answer when it ends with )))])))))[0]
 
lmao yes
inflist question: are you typically allowed to filter infinite lists :P
 
does it adjust where each index points to, or do you just end up with empty indices?
 
filtering is just for each element deciding whether or not to retain it, independent of surroundings
 
right
 
5:35 PM
i'm only familiar with linked-style infinite lists, so the former :P
 
fair lol
 
can someone write me a one-line Python iterator that always yields the same value?
 
iter(lambda _:1,0)
 
thanks
so, the answer I'm working on became so long I decided to put it into my main editor and expand it so I could understand it better:
              ]*3
                         )
            )
          )
        ]
           )
      )
                       )
             )
      (
        a
      )
    )
  )
)
that's what the end looks like
 
ah yes
looks like a starry program
 
5:51 PM
neat
 
Pinging seggan pings me now
 
oh no lol
 
I got pinged 6 times
now all you got is my pfp to tell :P
 
(aside: speaking of starry, this challenge is crazy and has some great answers, i wonder if we could do anything like this again)
'actually no im gonna talk abt it
obviously u wouldnt wanna just do the same challenge but with a different image / size restriction (... i think) but like, i wonder if there are any meaningful / interesting iterations to be done on it :-)
 
this answer is just ABSURD
do you want to see it right now? (doesn't work yet)
 
5:57 PM
yes :-D
@Ginger that answer of yours is absurd
 
Chat refuses to upload images
Does it not like my username or what lol
 
was having that issue yesterday, is it saying "fakepath" on your upload url
 
No it just says failed to upload image
 
@Sʨɠɠan go to your bio and change you associated site to CG
@Sʨɠɠan lol same
 
Yeah, there's an ongoing bug with uploading images across SE
33
Q: Image uploading fails with "Failed to upload image; an error occurred on the server"

GlorfindelI can't upload images anymore: on the Ask Question page, the image upload dialog shows a red error message Failed to upload image; an error occurred on the server See the screenshot below (uploaded via imgur's own website): The response from the server is {"Success":false,"Error":5,"ErrorMessage"

 
5:59 PM
@thejonymyster here it is: lambda a,b:list(takewhile(lambda w:len(a()[1])>int(b),iter(a:=partial(lambda a:(1,"".join(map(str,[reduce(mul,map(int,u))for u in map(list,map(''.join,zip(*[iter([a+"1"*n for n in range(int(b))if not len(a+"1"*n)%int(b)][0])]*3)))]))),a),0)))
 
it already is set to cgcc
man i keep trying to paste screenshots for all sorts of stuff
i keep just automatically taking a screenshot of the error but then i get the error lol
 
I'd say you need from itertools import*for that
 
you do
 
@Ginger O.O
 
you need all of:
from functools import reduce, partial
from itertools import takewhile
from operator import mul
 
6:00 PM
mul can just be int.__mul__ without any imports
 
well I am apparently permitted to not count the imports if I declare them in the post header so there would be no advantage
 
no
the code has to compile without the imports
so it's valid to not count the imports if you just use x.blah() but not blah(x)
13
Q: Byte count for imports (or other things) not needed for definition, but for execution

nimiWhen we define a function that needs an import, we have to add it to the byte count. So far, so good. What about cases where the definition itself doesn't need the import, but when you want to call/execute the function you need it, for example to construct parameters? Examples can be found here ...

 
frick
ah well
 
ಠ_ಠ I just lost the game
 
ಠ_ I just lost an eye
 
6:03 PM
ಠಠ I just lost a mouth
 
ninja'd
 
ಠ I just lost
 
I just
 
&nbsp;I just lost my head
 
6:03 PM
 
Damn, I feel old now, if people don't know about the game
 
we do
I do
so that function uses map four times, lambda 3 times, and list comprehensions 3 times
 
Needs more lambdas
 
@thejonymyster Impossible. The game has no winners, only losers
 
6:11 PM
i cant believe we elected a mod who cant read
 
lmao
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing "The only winning move is not to play"--wait, wrong game
 
@thejonymyster Clearly this card overrides that rule
 
^^xd
@mousetail but does this caird override the card
 
@mousetail lambda:(1,lambda:(1,lambda:(1,lambda:(1,lambda:print("hi"))[1]())[1]())[1]())[1]())
 
6:13 PM
@thejonymyster Huh, I wonder what this button on the mod dashboard does? "Make every user on the site lose the game" :P
6
 
my one request to whoever moves the conversation: move it to cgcc-gaming
 
@thejonymyster No only "Nope" cards can override other cards
 
@Ginger It's up to you I think
 
We use exploding kittens rules in this server
 
I'm pretty sure I've seen it both ways
E.g., here's a bunch of people who do include the import:
Or not, since the upload isn't working
 
6:14 PM
@mousetail ive been meaning to check that out; can it be played with a standard playing card deck?
and as a solitaire, by myself
 
@mousetail *puts down pile of -vs* man I thought this was capture the flag
 
It probably would not be nearly as fun with normal cards
 
@thejonymyster Probably, but not easily. There are a ton of cards and it would be hard to remember what each one does
Also playing with playing cards would make the game feel "serous" and you'll suddenly realize how unbalanced it is. The colorful cards distract you from the game play which is a good thing.
 
I just had a genius idea
 
time to go into my nuclear bunker
 
6:16 PM
@mathcat Oh no
 
@mousetail well the balance doesnt seem so important, since id be playing by myself,
very seriously,
and in the dark
 
Fly to NL and play with me :)
 
On my way!
 
@mathcat My friend asked for an amazon gift card as a birthday present, but I'll make him have to go through numerous rickrolls first to get the money.
 
New Lersey
@mathcat we are in the presence of Satan
 
6:19 PM
I know, I'm brilliant, thanks
 
rickroll encoded message; its just the instrumental except for certain words and phrases that have not been removed
 
That would be evil, require the song to be memorized to decode it
Or just play it many times
 
ooh yeah
 
6:36 PM
Xor an H.264 stream of the video with the data
 
would that keep the video valid?
 
^?
 
6:51 PM
^^?
 
files are typically corrupted when you xor them with other files
by using an H.264 stream, does this circumvent that possibility?
 
> This chat bio was last updated two days ago.
 
like you cant just alter the binary of, say, an image, and still be guaranteed a viewable image
 
@mathcat Thanks for wasting 10 minutes of my life
 
@mathcat ?
 
6:55 PM
o i just realised
 
@thejonymyster lucky you
 
you posted this in the chat i would just sort of hope you could explain what youre talking about :P
 
Don't try to think about it, a noticeable side effect would be losing your brain.
 
there was a comment criticizing fig's scoring system on one of steffans answers, and i replied with an explanation, but in doing that, i impersonated steffan :P
 
@thejonymyster <whisper>radvylf's bio</whisper>
 
6:57 PM
cc: @Sʨɠɠan ^^
 
@mathcat can you even view edit history of that
 
@thejonymyster This must be true, no type of data can be preserved when xor'd with arbitrary data
This is in fact the basis of almost all encryption
 
right but like
will the video player still go "sure this is a video"
 
Probably not
Since magic numbers and stuff wouldn't match
 
@Sʨɠɠan no, ^
 
7:00 PM
It's essentially equivalent to whether the player will handle random binary data
Since anything ^ random gives you random
 
I still don't really understand how the encryption would work
What are you xor'ing with what?
 
One example is the one time pad, where you just xor the plaintext with the key
 
And what would the key be? The video?
 
Oh for the rickroll xor thing, yeah. You'd xor the video stream with the data you're sending them. That forces them to xor what you give them with the video stream again to recover the original data
Since x ^ y ^ x == y
XOR really is a beautiful thing
 
oooh nice
 
7:06 PM
E.g., if twenty people each have twenty files of the same size, but any one person is missing exactly one of the twenty files, you can publish one file the same size as any of the twenty which allows all of them to recover the one they're missing
Since the XOR of all twenty files, xor'd by any combination of 19 of the files, will give you the 20th
 
coooool
 
@RadvylfPrograms i actually made a minecraft plugin with a radio that performed simple xor encryption
 
IIRC a stream cipher just XORs the plaintext with a PRNG stream seeded with the key
 
7:24 PM
i feel like building a BF machine
as in a computer that natively executes bf
 
@mousetail @DialFrost 97 septillion bytes
 
Banana Flippin' Machine
 
Does somebody know how to get the binary stream of a video in javascript?
 
In what format is the video
And in what format do you want the stream
If you want the video stream and it's in a container format like MP4 you've got no chance
 
ugh man
Any alternatives?
 
7:27 PM
But if you just want the binary of a File containing the video, you can just use a FileReader to get an ArrayBuffer
 
@mathcat (video+0).toString(2)
 
@RadvylfPrograms oh why didn't I think of that, thanks
 
7:45 PM
And one more thing: What's the easiest possible way to convert an ArrayBuffer to binary? SO didn't help.
 
As in bits?
Or a typed array
 
anything's okay
 
For bits: [...new Uint8Array(array_buffer)].map(x => x.toString(2).padStart(8, "0")).join("") but that doesn't seem like what you'd want
For bytes, new Uint8Array(array_buffer)
If you just want to XOR stuff together, I'd recommend new Int32Array(array_buffer)
 
Actually that makes sense
 
Since JS's bitwise operators work with 32-bit signed ints
 
7:47 PM
you trying to xor the data while keeping everything else intact?
 
Wdym by "everything else"
 
i.e. magic nums and stuff
 
I strongly doubt that that's possible
Surely there's some invalid states in the compression, so even only restricting the changes to the data would probably break things
 
no i meant that data as in raw video data
no compression applied
 
Oh, hm. Not even sure if I know of any non-compressed video formats.
Even lossless video is probably extremely compressible
 
7:52 PM
🤦‍♂️
not any format
as in get the raw data from the format, do whatever with it, and convert back to whatever format
 
well all data is in a format, no?
 
Ohh. Yeah that's def. impossible with JS
(and you'd need to use a lossless format for the input/output still, which is rare)
And it also isn't necessary in order to achieve the goal of forcing someone to rickroll themselves to recover the data
 
Oh yeah, and how do you xor Int16arrays?
^ returns 0
 
@mathcat int_32_array.map((x, i) => x ^ other_int_32_array[i])
 
ah ty
 
7:55 PM
Note than an Int16Array won't work
It'll need to either be unsigned or an Int32 one
 
How come?
 
majick
 
@mathcat Negative ints will be interpreted as 32 bits, not 16
 
Converting to int32 returns: "Not divisible by 4" or something
 
@mathcat Ohh true
I'd do Uint8 then
 
7:56 PM
okie
 
Since the data's not guaranteed to have an even byte count
 
yay nice
that's probably enough for today o/
 
\\o
 
o/
@Ginger Reaching for objects above your head is dangerous
 
no, I'm riding an escalator
 
8:37 PM
@py3programmer how did you find me on scratch :P
 
9:06 PM
ya
he left a comment on one of my stuff
 
Presumably the same way that I found it
6
A: The many users of CGCC

SʨɠɠanMy current (temporary) name Sʨɠɠan comes from this chat message. It should be pronounced Steggan or if you really want, s ch gh an. My old name Seggan comes from: When I first started coding, I started in Scratch with my friend. He gave us the username segganew, with a lowercase s (my "junk" emai...

 
ahh oops
 
10:10 PM
@mousetail well if you're going off answers to that challenge, there's one vyxal answer there that is 9942694705621871183448638796 bytes
 
10:21 PM
Yooo it says I’m top .69% this year lmfao
 
noice
 
CMC: Given positive integers a and b, output the lowest positive integer n, such that gcd(n^a + b, (n+1)^a + b) > 1
 
Feel like I've seen that one before
 
^ as in xor or pow?
 
10:37 PM
@lyxal a = 17, b = 9 is a common example of a very large counter-example (where the claim is that all n go to 1)
@emanresuA Power
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing no like I mean I feel like I've seen that CMC before, posted here
Vyxal, 10 bytes if I've done things right:Try it Online!
›"?e?+ġċ)ṅ
 
11:03 PM
If I talk about a series of integers beginning with 1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89, what series am I referring to?
 
The Jeff numbers
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing The fibonacci numbers plus the sine of the nth prime number times pi, duh
 
Amateurs, both of you. It's obviously the coefficients of the expansion of 1/(1 - x - x^2 + x^18 - x^20), smh
 
Noo 1 vote away from populist on SO :(
@cairdcoinheringaahing hehe
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing it's a comprehensive list of how many people I troll each day starting from the 12th September 2022
Obviously
 
11:12 PM
@lyxal wut the
Sus
Oh well cya schools starting :(
 
11:49 PM
@Adám yes but it was a long time ago
@pxeger Would you mind updating Charcoal on ATO to b84c6c5249b3cfafa7082bf7943de9bbff188660?
(no rush, as it's just a very minor display issue with -a)
 

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