English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Noah

11:00

hello

ЯegDwight

Yoes.

Noah

@ЯegDwight How are you

Is that a new langauge

ЯegDwight

That's English.

Noah

No, it's not.

unless you prove me wrong

ЯegDwight

Well I speak English. And this is English.

Noah

11:03

Yoes.

"Yoes.
"

Okay...

ЯegDwight

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yo#English

See how it says "English"? That's because it's English.

Noah

But thats yo

not yoes

which are two different things

ЯegDwight

You are very observant.

Noah

well, smalls things can make a bid difference

SEX vs. SIX

It's just one letter and they sound roughly the same

" In my father's garden there are two cages. In one is a lion, which my father's slaves brought from the desert of Ninevah; in the other is a songless sparrow.
Every day at dawn the sparrow calls to the lion, "Good morrow to thee, brother prisoner." "

ΜετάEd

11:25

@Noah Every other sparrow is songless.

It's still a very apt story, because the songless sparrow is female.

Robusto

Yawn.

Noah

@ΜετάEd Thanks

Robusto

Yawn is different from lawn. An important distinction.

ЯegDwight

But is it different from the pawn on the lawn?

Noah

and so is I from You

Robusto

11:31

U and I are indeed different.

Noah

Not if you cut it in the middle

Robusto

@ЯegDwight I will tell you at dawn.

ЯegDwight

The fawn on the bawn is so badly misdrawn, his brawn is begnawn.

Robusto

How is its spawn?

ЯegDwight

It's resembling a flawn.

Robusto

11:34

Now you're just making shit up. Fawn spawn cannot be drawn as flawn.

ЯegDwight

Sorry, I meant suppawn.

Robusto

I don't think you're truly sorry.

ЯegDwight

Then start thinking it.

Robusto

I can think it but I won't believe it.

ЯegDwight

So I ask on MSO, "why am I asked to review a locked question, I can't do anything with locked questions", and I get the answer "I think the question is locked".

Ah, he's noticed his mistake before I could comment. Still, it was funny while it lasted.

Noah

11:44

we are not listening

:)

We are just reading it

Robusto

0

Q: Faith, Hope and Love as the keys to victory in an action-adventure novel?

I'm at the outline stage of my novel writing. It is pretty straightforward to think of an action-adventure novel's victory as attained by physical attributes and/or courage. I'm looking for alternative ways of making my hero win - such as by faith, hope and/or love. These themes are usually fou...

Gawd.

2

Q: Spiritual elements in a science-fiction novel

Does using unexplained spiritual elements (soul, "spiritual"/non-physical beings, afterlife, God, etc.) in a story with a futuristic setting make it science fantasy rather than science fiction?

fantasy science-fiction

Using it in any novel makes it fantasy.

ЯegDwight

Also, not novel.

Robusto

Also, not science.

ЯegDwight

At which point the book becomes Mitt Romney.

ЯegDwight

12:07

So now it's the German and the British embassies, huh.

Gigili

1 hour ago, by Noah

well, smalls things can make a bid difference

What language is that, @Noah?

user19161

@Robusto What is the difference between fiction and fantasy?

Robusto

@ЯegDwight Well, of course. Someone has to suffer for insults to Islam.

@WillHunting Closed as Gen Ref.

ЯegDwight

@WillHunting the difference is that both begin with an F.

ΜετάEd

@WillHunting Fantasy is a fiction genre.

user19161

12:13

@Robusto Faith, hope and love are very real though. For example, one has faith in Robusto, one hopes in Robusto and one loves Robusto.

Gigili

Ugh.

ЯegDwight

One? That's not much.

Gigili

@WillHunting One, one and one = three.

user19161

@Gigili Not really, it can be anywhere from one to three, depending on whether the ones are identical.

ΜετάEd

2 + 2 = 5, for large values of 2.

user19161

12:16

@ΜετάEd Ah, the first time I heard it I did not understand it.

ΜετάEd

@WillHunting It really annoys some mathematicians.

Which is good for them.

Gigili

Umm, the point of no return.

The return of no point.

The of no return point.

user19161

I always wonder whether it is "past the point of return" or "past the point of no return".

user19161

I guess they mean the same as the point of returning and non-returning are one and the same.

ЯegDwight

The point of no return. There is no such thing as the point of return.

Gigili

12:21

Don't wonder, it's not good for your health.

ЯegDwight

You can return at any point before the point of no return.

ΜετάEd

Or from.

user19161

Also I currently have 18 stars on the star wall in the other room.

ΜετάEd

@WillHunting That's going to be confusing. Mind if we call you Orion?

Gigili

@WillHunting That's good for you. You can find your way home at night.

user19161

12:24

@Gigili Yes, they know I love stars there so they make me happy.

cornbread ninja

@Cerberus dang it!

Oh, it's even starred.

breach hull, all die. Even had it underlined!

ΜετάEd

@cornbreadninja Having trouble breathing?

Noah

@Gigili Penglish

ΜετάEd

12:41

Dive! Dive!

Journeyman Geek

penglish? english as spoken by penguins?

KitFox

moin moin

ΜετάEd

@KitFox g'moin!

Or, for those of you following along in Iowa: Des Moines!

ЯegDwight

12:57

TIL that today's Friday.

There was I thinking it was some kind of Wednesday.

Boring meeting time, then. BBL.

Jez

why did KitFox remove the thing about the skull society?

KitFox

Apparently, it's a secret. They watch everything I do, and they told me to remove it.

Mitch

secret revealed. agents dispatched

KitFox

13:12

Damn it.

Mitch

@ЯegDwight There's lots of points of no return too. maybe more.

@Gigili don't pick at your food, it'll never heal.

ΜετάEd

Hey. Why are there black helicopters hovering over my office?

@Mitch Get ahold of dispatch and tell them to straighten that shit out.

KitFox

@ΜετάEd Um. You know that woman you work with?

Well, worked with.

Holla @Matt.

Matt Эллен

buenas días!

KitFox

Whoever designed the little tool to add new users to my website definitely deserves a raise.

ΜετάEd

13:19

@KitFox Oh. Well that's all right then.

It's the pro-porn squad.

KitFox

Well, it was nice working with you.

Even though you had all those smutty pictures.

Mitch

@ΜετάEd Everybody involved will be brought in for 'questioning'.

turns lights off. hides under desk

ΜετάEd

@Mitch And be sure to bring lots of porn with you to the interrogation.

Journeyman Geek

If it works with nukes, works with secret societies

Mitch

heavy knock on door. realizes desk is really a table that everyone can see under

@ΜετάEd I'm guessing to share?

ΜετάEd

13:23

@Mitch Hell yes. You do want to be released, don't you?

KitFox

Rats. All my porn is at home. Will porn for Mormons pass?

Mitch

@KitFox We know who did it. and thank you!

But I think that's as much as you'll get.

KitFox

Yep. I appreciate the thank you, though. At least someone said it.

Grace Note

...porn? Again?

KitFox

Did we stop?

Mitch

13:25

@ΜετάEd You'd think they'd want something different for once. Like maybe mail order catalogs.

Grace Note

There were times I come in and there isn't porn

KitFox

But then there are balrogs.

Same thing really.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

balrog porn! All that sexy flame and shadow

KitFox

There's your topic for NaNoWriMo.

Hawt.

Hawt, tawdry balrog porn.

5

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Oh Gothmog! You're so... smokey!

Mitch

13:26

...on their possibly functional wings.

KitFox

And the ever present mystery of whether there are wings involved.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Crack that firey whip! Yes! Yes! You shall pass!

Matt Эллен

Smite my mountains!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен you made me choke on my oatmeal

KitFox

They fell together into the blackest pit, and rose together to tops of the broken crags, but whether they flew is still unclear.

ЯegDwight

13:28

@KitFox let me introduce you to that new Internet thing.

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 sorry and yay!

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 that's one radical, sorry, brutal bdsm thing

KitFox

@ЯegDwight What's this? Some way to get pornographies free anywhere anytime?

ЯegDwight

Well not free if you choose to pay.

ΜετάEd

@Mitch Back in the 19th century, yes, they always wanted the Sears Roebuck.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:29

Hey have an ELU question

1

Q: "What's" in indirect questions

Lets consider the following: The book doesn't explain, "What's the wisdom behind education?" Changing this to an indirect question becomes the following: The book doesn't explain what the wisdom behind education is. Now, I found many instances on Google where structures like this were...

grammar

Mitch

@ΜετάEd because of the pictures of ...

oxen yokes

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Am I alone in thinking that "what is X" can be used in stead of "what X is" in sentences?

ΜετάEd

@Mitch Because the pages didn't chafe so bad as the Montgomery Ward.

KitFox

Well, it was really the oxen, wasn't it?

Matt Эллен

ΜετάEd

13:30

@KitFox You know what they say.

Grace Note

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Define X

ΜετάEd

Un pelo di fica ha piu forza di un paio di buoi.

JSBձոգչ

lies! all of it!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GraceNote well, like in the example, "the wisdom behind education"

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 depends on what X is. what is X?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:31

> He doesn't say what is the wisdom behind education.

KitFox

@ΜετάEd Shocking.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> He doesn't say what the wisdom behind education is.

Grace Note

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 As in, a difference between "What the wisdom behind education is" and "What is the wisdom behind education"?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Both sound right to me.

KitFox

The first sounds more pineappley to me.

Matt Эллен

13:32

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 that sounds wrong to me

Grace Note

Now, once again I'll assert that I'm no academician, but "What X is" feels more statement, while "what is X" feels better if it's a question.

KitFox

Or indirect speech maybe.

ΜετάEd

@GraceNote When as old as I am you are, use the second construction you will not.

ЯegDwight

"What's really on her mind" is really a different construction altogether.

Which is why you can't say "She doesn't say what really on her mind is".

Grace Note

So, in that sense, I wouldn't phrase a statement as "<initial portion> what is X" if it is a statement, because it feels like the ending portion should be an interrogative.

Mitch

13:33

that should be
He doesn't say "what is the wisdom behind education."
or
He doesn't say what the wisdom behind education is.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch I'm using it as an example, not quoting the question

Mitch

if it's a question (that happens to be quoted) it is 'What is X'
if it's a relative clause it is '...what X is'

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 OK then I'm saying it is wrong. In a rel clause it must be '..what X is'.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch So how can we explain this in clear terms: "He doesn't say what X is" but "He doesn't say what is inside the box": what is the distinction between those?

Mitch

You think either is acceptable because you've heard too many non-native speakers say it wrong.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch No I think I'm over-extrapolating from the cases where it has to always be "what is X"

ЯegDwight

13:37

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 in the one, X is the subject. In the other, what is the subject.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 or that.

ЯegDwight

@JSB right there answered a similar question once.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So we have two clasues: [He doesn't say] and [what X is]| vs [what is YY]

and in the second clause, if X is the subject, you must always use "what X is", and if "what" is the subject, you must say "what is [modifier]"

Does that make sense?

Because the answers to that question are currently very poor.

okay I changed my mind, one of the answers is correct and complete.

ЯegDwight

3

Q: "I'm not sure what the right way is"

I believe the sentence in the title is grammatically correct. Recently I've seen too many people writing it this way: I'm not sure what is the right way. Is it grammatically correct as well? Maybe in a different sense? Or simply misuse by non-native speakers?

grammaticality

Looks like a dupe anyway.

With an answer by John Lawler.

Still can't find that other question I was talking about, though.

Not even sure anymore if it was @JSB who answered. Perhaps Kosmo.

12

Q: Why do we put the verb to be at the end of these questions?

Possible Duplicate: Changing subject and verb positions in statements and questions Look at the following questions - can anyone give a simple grammatical explanation as to why we put the verb to be at the end of these questions: Can you tell me where the hospital is? Do you know wh...

grammar questions

4

Q: Changing subject and verb positions in statements and questions

We always change subject and verb positions in whenever we want to ask a question such as What is your name?. But when it comes to statements like the following, which form is correct? I don't understand what are you talking about. I don't understand what you are talking about. Anot...

grammar

This could be it. Kosmo.

Kthxmyshopisdun.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> you have to think about what is the main verb of the whole sentence.

In Kosmo's answer

ЯegDwight

13:51

Lulz.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Should I fix it?

ЯegDwight

No idea. Could be intentional. Must be intentional. Even if it isn't, it's sacrosanct by now.

So, @Grace, tell me. Why is it every time you show up the subject shifts to porn?

Grace Note

@ЯegDwight I think you're reversing cause and effect here

Journeyman Geek

or you guys are always talking about porn ;p

ЯegDwight

I leave the room all neat and in alphabetical order. I come back, it's full of porn and grace, not always in this order.

@JourneymanGeek 322 hits. That's nothing. We have more hits about balrogs.

And 2542 hits for nothing.

Grace Note

13:54

@ЯegDwight I'm pretty su... aw

ЯegDwight

@GraceNote if you seem to get less hits for balrogs, that's because them is hiding.

Journeyman Geek

I see that and raise you the amount of times I have said lol on root access chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=lol&user=10208&room=118

Grace Note

@ЯegDwight I was going to say nothing was higher than balrogs

ЯegDwight

@GraceNote and that makes you proud because...?

Grace Note

@ЯegDwight It doesn't?

Journeyman Geek

13:55

@GraceNote: well, technically, if they are in the deeps... quite a lot is higher that balrogs.

KitFox

tries smoking balrogs

ЯegDwight

@GraceNote Then it's not a raise. You should be ashamed and hide it rather than advertise it.

ΜετάEd

@KitFox Take that nasty thing out of your mouth, Kit.

Grace Note

I thought we established there was already hiding going on

ЯegDwight

This room has less (@Kit) hits for lol from all users combined.

Which only proves how alphabetical an order this room is in.

KitFox

13:56

I seed it the first time, nummy.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I don't know how you can go on about alphabetical order when half the times you guys aren't even using the alphabet

ЯegDwight

Numbers are allowed in this room. We are not discriminating against numbers. Or notes. See Grace right there.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Sure, Mr. backwards-R-egDwight

ЯegDwight

That's not a backwards R. For @tchrist's sake!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

BTW According to Google, "Balrog" is 炎魔 in Chinese.

Jez

13:58

there's no way to remove the "close" button from all the tabs in Google Chrome, and Google won't change that behaviour. bastards.

ЯegDwight

Aug 25 at 15:56, by tchrist

And in particular:
ᴙ 1D19 LATIN LETTER SMALL CAPITAL REVERSED R

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Fire demon?

ЯegDwight

This is a reversed R.

ΜετάEd

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You should fuþark. The alphabet is so 20th century.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez Use a real browser, then, like Firefox

Jez

13:59

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yeah, be nice if they weren't about to utterly ruin their tabs too by throwing tabs-on-bottom to the wind

ΜετάEd

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Fire fox. Fire demon. ponders

ЯegDwight

Haha. Firefox. Hahahaha.

KitFox

What is the plural of balrog: balrog, balrogs, balroggen?

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…