The Nineteenth Byte

Redwolf Programs

8:03 PM

Ayy just got a good answer badge on SO

More than 25% of my SO reputation comes from that one answer lol

CMQ: Should strings be able to span multiple lines?

E.g.:

rak1507

codereview sucks, -2 for a good answer codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/269957/… :(

Redwolf Programs

var string: "this is
a string
across multiple lines"

rak1507

how often do you see an accepted answer on -2?!?!?

Mayube

@RedwolfPrograms If the language only has one way to represent string literals, yes. If it has multiple, at least one should support it

eg in JS only backtick strings (aka 'templates') support newlines in the literal

Redwolf Programs

@rak1507 Quite often, when somebody solves the problem but doesn't explain it well or is missing a better option

Which, since your answer is basically a link-only answer, it isn't all too surprising it got downvoted

Mayube

8:09 PM

@rak1507 the answer is accepted by the asker, who is new to the site. The votes are provided by members of the site, who are familiar with common guidelines and etiquette of the site

rak1507

but the asker said himself my solution worked for him

so it's objectively good

Mayube

Except it's Code Review, not StackOverflow

rak1507

doesn't mean you should downvote a good answer

Mayube

The comments explained quite succinctly why it was downvoted

Redwolf Programs

@rak1507 If it's link-only it's a bad answer

Mayube

8:11 PM

> it is better to include the essential parts of the answer here and provide the link for reference.

rak1507

it's not link only

Mayube

> providing an alternative solution, without reviewing the code, is of only small benefit to the asker.

rak1507

it's a link, and then a line of code which does what he wants

Redwolf Programs

Without any explanation or other useful information

rak1507

well the code is obviously readable

what explanation does it need?

Redwolf Programs

8:12 PM

OP seemed to be unsure how it worked, and surely the answer you link to has more information than just a single line of code

Mayube

> Please edit to show what aspects of the question code prompted you to write this version, and in what ways it's an improvement over the original.

rak1507

'what aspects of the question code prompted you to write this version' - the old code is slow, and the new code is fast?

'in what ways it's an improvement over the original' - it's a bajillion times faster (and only one line)

all of these things are obvious

Mayube

You didn't explain that, nor did you explain how or why it's faster

in short, you didn't review OP's code at all, you simply said "use this instead", which defeats the purpose of a Code Review site

rak1507

well, that's true

but their question was really more of a stackoverflow esque question

'Is there a way to improve my loop to make it more efficient and faster'

Mayube

I agree that their question was probably better suited to SO, but it wasn't on SO, so it didn't warrant an SO-esque answer

Redwolf Programs

8:16 PM

^

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Infinite ordinals from a well-ordering Your task is to write a short program that represents a large (infinite) ordinal, using a well ordering of the set of positive integers. Your program will take two different positive integers and indicate which one is greater in your chosen well-ordering. Th...

rak1507

if someone asks a question, and you answer it, even if they ask it in the wrong place, answering it shouldn't get you downvotes

Redwolf Programs

If someone's asking on CR, you should explain the reason the code is better. There's going to be something deeper than "it's faster"... why is it faster?

rak1507

well, idrk other than pandas is fast and python is slow

Redwolf Programs

That itself could be a reason, "pandas has this built-in, which works better than doing it with Python". That's an explanation.

rak1507

8:17 PM

but all of that is basically implicit in the answer

Mayube

The first paragraph of How to Answer on Code Review

Redwolf Programs

@rak1507 It is not

Mayube

> Every answer must make at least one insightful observation about the code in the question. Answers that merely provide an alternate solution with no explanation or justification do not constitute valid Code Review answers and may be deleted. In addition to criticisms, pointing out good practices in the code is also a form of helpful feedback.

hyper-neutrino

also do note that not all questions have a good answer

in which case just don't write one

Mayube

^

Your response would've been better as a comment imo

rak1507

8:18 PM

well, my answer was objectively 'good' in the sense that it had a net gain to people even if code review regulars didn't like it

Mayube

> Not all questions can or should be answered here. Save yourself some frustration by flagging off-topic questions for closure instead.

@rak1507 good for the user is not necessarily good for the site, which is what the votes reflect

rak1507

the user is more important than the site

hyper-neutrino

wrong

rak1507

idc about the site, but I happened to see that post and knew how to do it

hyper-neutrino

you could at least explain why this is faster (whether it's because pandas has optimizations or if it uses C optimizations, etc), why their code is slower / why it's bad (if it is), etc

@rak1507 and you got downvoted for it and got an accept, because you valued the user (who gave the accept) over the site (who gave the downvotes)

what's confusing about that then

Redwolf Programs

8:20 PM

It could have been good for both if you had added a short explanation, I think

pxeger

@rak1507 If the asker wanted to know where to buy toothpicks and you provided them with details for a toothpick shop, you could argue that was a "net gain" to the asker, but it is not helpful to the site because the site does not want content about where to buy toothpicks

rak1507

I think helping people is more important than adhering to strict etiquette at all times

Redwolf Programs

Although a comment would've been best in this situation

pxeger

Admittedly toothpicks is an extreme example, because that's much further off-topic, but your answer still wasn't helpful in terms of the goal of the site

Redwolf Programs

@rak1507 I sort of do too, but because that encourages off-topic questions on the site, it's understandable people there would downvote you for it

hyper-neutrino

8:22 PM

that's sort of a false dichotomy

Redwolf Programs

Me or pxeger

hyper-neutrino

rak

so technically you

Mayube

in that helping people and adhering to etiquette are not in any way mutually exclusive?

pxeger

yes

hyper-neutrino

helping people, which you could've done while following said etiquette with more explanations, is not always more important than following site guidelines to maintain quality and the long-term goal of building a repository of information, which isn't really a "strict etiquette" - the guidelines aren't all that strict, really

2

@Mayube exactly

Mayube

8:23 PM

and that it was entirely possible for rak to help the asker without breaking CR etiquette?

rak1507

it's more that I view helping people as sufficiently good to overpower any insufficient etiquette that overall if I saw that answer I would upvote it not downvote (or at least leave it alone)

Mayube

Evidently, the site's regulars disagree

rak1507

well I edited the answer, is it any better now?

hyper-neutrino

yes, much better IMO

Mayube

Absolutely

rak1507

8:33 PM

to me it's just the same thing with more words

Mayube

Remember that what is "implied" or "obvious" to you is not so to everyone else

hyper-neutrino

I'd say this is a pretty significant difference.

Mayube

especially people who are new to Python & Panda, and people who's first language is not english

rak1507

fairs

Mayube

and your score reflects the improvement

from -2 to +1

rak1507

8:35 PM

yay

Redwolf Programs

8:57 PM

Mayube

@RedwolfPrograms what

Redwolf Programs

It's kinda weak that everyone sells "iceberg lettuce" but none of it actually bleeds

Mayube

@RedwolfPrograms I made this change almost 2 hours ago. I just now noticed QUOTED_IdENTIFIER at the top of the file

@RedwolfPrograms Iceberg lettuce, much like actual icebergs, is just crunchy water

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms (Just a drawing I'd made when I was bored with some of what could under some circumstances be considered humor)

@Mayube Huh, all the icebergs near my house are made of solid human blood.

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms You vacuous logician, you

Mayube

9:03 PM

Reason #2**17 why I never want to go to the US

Redwolf Programs

(If you can't tell nonsense/shitpost humor is my favorite variety :p)

Mayube

it can be a great kind of humor, but you gotta do it just right

DLosc

@Mayube I did this kind of thing more than once while golfing my latest answer. If you're using a regex search-and-replace, \b is your friend.

Redwolf Programs

I'm pretty proud of that koopa-horny-toad though

Been trying out a mix of chrome canvas and google drawings lately

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms I think this guy needs either a black hat or a beret. Maybe a black beret.

Mayube

9:05 PM

2

that's how you nonsense/shitpost humor :P

@DLosc is he going to try programming with butterflies?

DLosc

@Mayube Either that, or stealing a nuclear submarine

Redwolf Programs

No no no it was always there

Mayube

@DLosc why_not_both.tiff

He can program the nuclear submarine with a butterfly

DLosc

True, I suppose Emacs has a command for that

Mayube

Good ol C-x M-c M-butterfly

DLosc

9:10 PM

There's someone at my apartment complex who routinely double-parks their shiny red pickup truck. I always think of the XKCD solution.

Redwolf Programs

If computer piracy required real boats, they'd presumably be docked in a pier-to-pier network

4

hyper-neutrino

→ 1 message moved to Trash

Redwolf Programs

Why trash and not the bakery?

hyper-neutrino

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

fun fact: that question was posted on SO first

Mayube

>:|

DLosc

9:20 PM

@hyper-neutrino Uh... that's a bit harsh o_o

hyper-neutrino

it's unfortunately all too common

that I'm about to write up a comment or migrate or ask Makyen for a migration and then I check their profile and they already posted it to SO, got downvoted because their question sucks, and decided to dump it here instead of putting in more effort for help

DLosc

I get it, but there's a difference between "their behavior is bad and makes me angry" and "I f---ing hate them"

hyper-neutrino

fair enough

Mayube

Sometimes we say what we feel, not what we believe. It's human.

Dammit.. xkcd made a comic about categorization pedants, and now I'm just trying to figure out which category I am

hyper-neutrino

well, if you're trying to figure which one you are, it means you're splitting the two, so you are a splitter :P

Mayube

9:28 PM

Correct

But what kind of splitter?

You could probably categorize splitters by their maximum splitting depth, ie how far will they split a category before calling it good enough?

Redwolf Programs

Eh, they're all the same. If anything, they're the same as regular pedants.

Mayube

Ok, Lumper

Fmbalbuena

9:46 PM

@AaroneousMiller oops @DLosc made a answer. Write fast and shortest.

Aaroneous Miller

@Fmbalbuena I'm having trouble with the compilation at the moment, so I may not be able to get it done before the bounty is over. That's ok though, because I can guarantee that it'll be much longer than DLosc's answer anyway.

Fmbalbuena

@AaroneousMiller you lost 50 rep

too late

Aaroneous Miller

@Fmbalbuena that's fine, I'm having a lot of fun making this anyway, the rep was just a nice bonus

Other than the compilation and execution, I have everything implemented. Once I get the compilation working, the execution should follow pretty easily.

(inb4 it doesn't follow pretty easily)

my rough estimate for the final length is probably around 1000 bytes-ish

Mayube

10:16 PM

Honestly I don't know that anyone who golfs in CGSE is in it for the rep

Fmbalbuena

@Mayube Bounty now or later?

To @DLosc Answerer

Mayube

why are you asking me? It's your bounty

Fmbalbuena

Ok i bounty now.

Mayube

morning lyxal

Fmbalbuena

@lyxal what is your origin of name?

lyxal

10:21 PM

It comes from me pressing random keys on an ipad keyboard

@Mayube you, my friend, have good humour

That was a very high quality meme

69/42.0

Mayube

the cereal one?

lyxal

Correctamundo

Mayube

Thanks, I have quite the collection

Not of memes, just of that one

lyxal

If it wasn't frozen, I'd encourage you to post that in my juicy dank meme stash

Lyxal's Juicy Meme Stash

A safe place for dank memes. No posting cringe please.

Mayube

Are you familiar with the origins of the meme?

lyxal

10:24 PM

@Mayube I familiar with the "me when no x/me when x" format

Mayube

It's from an old CallMeCarson video. I think he actually made the meme. Him and a few friends were sharing memes on discord, and every time he'd be like "hey guys I got a great one for you" and post that meme. He showed his meme folder and it was just hundreds of copies of the same meme.

And so naturally it became a meme to occasionally re-send that meme to somebody who'd already seen it as though it was a new meme

lyxal

Til

@hyper-neutrino could you unfreeze my meme stash? I've found a few extra additions I want to add

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Output Quine-relay code depending on input quineanswer-chaining The Quine-Relay is A program (A) in programming language (Z) what outputs (B), (B) is a program in programming language (Y) what outputs (C) and so on. Where (Z) is the language of the first answerer and (Y) is the language of the s...

Fmbalbuena

This is first time at sandbox

Mayube

10:50 PM

?

2

Fmbalbuena

@Mayube can you find bugs in my sandbox post

Manny Queen

i don't even understand it

Fmbalbuena

ok someone understand.

Mayube

I also don't understand it

xnor

@Randal'Thor that's amusing, thanks for telling me

Fmbalbuena

11:08 PM

Warning: TL;DR

@MannyQueen The second program does: If the input is Python then prints Python quine, else if the input is Python and JavaScript then prints quine relay Python ⇾ JavaScript ⇾ Python else if the input is JavaScript and Python then prints quine relay JavaScript ⇾ Python ⇾ JavaScript and so on. NOTE: the program is an example, not actual.

Mayube

that doesn't help

Manny Queen

it helps, but that's going to blow up fast

Mayube

If I were to write an answer to the challenge, what languages would I need to support as input? Every language already posted??

Fmbalbuena

@Mayube Yeah this needs a lot of work. Every language needs to be posted.

hyper-neutrino

@lyxal done, have fun

Fmbalbuena

11:14 PM

@Mayube 2 Rules added to understand. see the rules.

Mayube

what's "all languages"? Every language ever made???

Fmbalbuena

yeah. wait.

DLosc

@Mayube Welp, time to learn Malbolge =P

Fmbalbuena

@DLosc but ummm. not Malbolge. Better Malbolge Unshackled.

Mayube

But you said "all languages"

Fmbalbuena

11:17 PM

@Mayube I know but if statements is ~~necessary~~ Hard in malbolge

Mayube

but you didn't say "all languages where if statements are easy" you said "all languages"

Fmbalbuena

@Mayube Oh i will add a extra rule

@Mayube Sorry edited a rule

see second rule

Mayube

what's considered "limited output"?

Manny Queen

surely you mean all languages from previous answers??

Mayube

^

Fmbalbuena

11:20 PM

Oh sorry.

@Mayube Edited.

Added new rule.

Mayube

it still says "all languages must be supported", do you mean all languages as in every language in existence?

Fmbalbuena

@Mayube Edited.

All languages of all answers

I Understand what do you say

DLosc

I think TIO's "format as CG.SE submission" is slightly bugged. When the code contains a literal tab, it uses <pre><code> and HTML-escapes any angle brackets, but some of the angle brackets in my Pip Whitespace interpreter weren't getting escaped. Not sure why.

Never mind, user error :P

Fmbalbuena

@DLosc ~~Refund Bounty~~ ~~Mod Refund Bounty~~ Can't Refund

DLosc

I copied some raw code over top of what TIO had given.

Bubbler

11:25 PM

@DLosc I was about to ask "does it actually break the post?" but well :P

Fmbalbuena

@Mayube Do you understand the rules?

See the rules

DLosc

@Fmbalbuena The solution works just fine, it was just momentarily listed incorrectly in the post.

Bubbler

But yeah, the <pre><code> thing is fragile, if possible it should've been updated to use triple backticks instead

DLosc

Do those allow literal tabs?

Mayube

yep

DLosc

11:26 PM

Huh, TIL

Fmbalbuena

@Mayube Vote the answer.

If you think is correct.

Mayube

at least they should if SE uses a half-decent markdown parser

@Fmbalbuena what answer?

Fmbalbuena

My answer

Bubbler

Meanwhile, regarding Advent of Code Golf...

Meanwhile, I just skimmed through one year of AoC, and got like five different challenge ideas already lol (currently in my private list of ideas). This actually might work pretty well... — Bubbler 13 hours ago

Mayube

@Fmbalbuena I only upvote sandbox answers I'd actually participate in. I don't like quine challenges.

DLosc

11:29 PM

@Mayube I don't think it's about the markdown parser, it's more that you can't copy-paste a literal tab in the answer box without it getting converted to a space. :P

Bubbler

Now time to solve all past part 1's because I need to know which ideas were already used up in actual AoCs

Fmbalbuena

@DLosc Imagine Malbolge Being Language of Learn You A Lang For Great Good!

@Mayube Uh Nevermind

DLosc

@Fmbalbuena If you like the idea, go ahead and nominate it! I wouldn't want it as Language of the Month, but I think it could work for LYAL.

Fmbalbuena

How to nominate

DLosc

@Fmbalbuena Post an answer here

Be sure to read the question to find out what kinds of information to put in your answer

Fmbalbuena

11:32 PM

@DLosc I think malbolge is not best because Its not TC

I'm reading the question

Mayube

IIRC Malbolge's computational class is still contested

Fmbalbuena

@Mayube What is IIRC

Mayube

If I Recall Correctly

hyper-neutrino

huh, I've always known it as "if I remember correctly"

(same thing, really, I suppose)

Mayube

works either way

DLosc

11:36 PM

@Fmbalbuena I don't think Turing-completeness is necessary for a LYAL language, for what it's worth. All we're doing is solving some toy problems.

Fmbalbuena

one char input?

without integer due to memory limitations

hyper-neutrino

keep in mind that if a language is harder people will just adjust cmc difficulty

DLosc

Again, not so much of a problem because we can choose the challenges for the event to be something that's easier to do in Malbolge (as far as anything can be called "easy" in Malbolge). We like crazy languages here.

(ninja'd)

hyper-neutrino

like how for /// we started with "add two numbers"

Mayube

and it took a 500 rep bounty from Bubbler for somebody to make a /// factorial, despite the CMC coming up in LYAL

Fmbalbuena

11:41 PM

@hyper-neutrino like kolmogorov-complexity

DLosc

Also, we have at least one person around here who is very, very good at Malbolge

Mayube

@DLosc good lord that's insane