The Nineteenth Byte

DLosc

00:38

@cairdcoinheringaahing Ah, true, forgot about that one.

@user I remembered it was a comment on an answer on meta, so I searched is:a pyth -[sandbox] and the answer was the first result. (This isn't the first time I've gone back to find it, either.)

Adalynn

I was going "pf" to the texas line

Redwolf Programs

01:22

Morning!

(It's 20:00 here :p)

(I've been busy today)

caird coinheringaahing

Night :P

(It's 2:30 here, and my flatmate set off the fire alarm ~ 20 mins ago)

Redwolf Programs

@DLosc I think you're misrepresenting Programmer B's views

It's not so much that it's "unfair", since that doesn't really have any meaning on its own. It's more than the rule was designed in good faith to allow things like Perl p without giving those languages an inherent disadvantage, so flag abuse is taking advantage of that rule to go exactly against its intent and give certain (most) languages a disadvantage

But your code golf vs. language golf distinction is a very good one I think, +1 for that

lyxal

ah yes, in one (long) weekend, our state has lost our premier and deputy premier (premier = someone who is head of the state government)

very cool

caird coinheringaahing

Didn't Aus go through like 5 prime ministers in the space of ~6 months recently, or am I misremembering?

lyxal

/s

@cairdcoinheringaahing more like 6 years

AviFS

01:33

Incredibly insightful essay, @DLosc. Really thought-provoking read!

caird coinheringaahing

That's basically the same time span

Redwolf Programs

Solution: Start a new site specifically for golfing language design and make language golf challenges on topic there :p

AviFS

I find the diagnosis really intriguing and a great perspective through which to understand CGCC's tensions in some of those rules.

Redwolf Programs

Actually, a programming language development site could be pretty cool

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing and the funniest part is that both major political parties participated in using the revolving door ;p

caird coinheringaahing

01:34

@RedwolfPrograms That's just conlangs.SE but for computers

Redwolf Programs

CMA51: Programming Language Design and Implementation

AviFS

That said, as you hinted, I'm not all that excited about the solutions you proposed, haha

I particularly like this line:

> I think, at its highly subjective, emotional core, this is our actual definition of cheating: "If that's what it takes to win, then I don't want to play."

But I got totally lost at:

> We add a new question type that links to a bunch of well-specified code-golf challenges and requires that answers solve all/most of them, using the same language/version/flags and I/O methods for all solutions.

Redwolf Programs

I think the focus on the fact that flag combinations are languages that happen to be optimized for a particular challenge type is a good thing to mention, because I feel like full languages which are heavily optimized for a particular type of challenge would also take a lot of the fun out of language golf

AviFS

I feel like I must be missing something. There are lots of great esolangs that can only do one class of problems.

Eg. Charcoal. It's not a great example because it is Turing-complete. But there are lots of langs like that meant for one kind of problem, which can't do any other. But are still well-loved and haven't ever been accused of cheating, afaik

caird coinheringaahing

Charcoal is the worst example of that, courtesy of Neil :P

Canvas might be a better fit

AviFS

01:40

Canvas was the name I had in mind!!

But then I couldn't find it on Esolang wiki and thought I made it up

Redwolf Programs

Well, those wouldn't really be possible to use for a language golf challenge focusing on a broad selection representative of all types of challenges, but if there were ASCII art specific categories of language golf, it would be competitive

AviFS

But certainly, there are lots of langs which can't do [random] or [non-deterministic] challenges, or those art/visualization ones where you have to draw a flag

Not ascii art, but the [graphical] ones

codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/64140/… ~~one-box~~

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Computers are more interesting than people sometimes;p

caird coinheringaahing

Unpopular opinion (and a bit harsh, I'm tired, sorry in advance): Shut up about flags. I don't know about y'all, but I'm *really* tired about the flag debate. There are some interesting takes, but even those are, overall, meaningless. I'm here to challenge myself to get better at using Jelly, and to set challenges that I think will make people enjoy an hour or so of their life. I imagine most of you are, more or less, here for the same reason. Don't get me wrong, I care about this community, and I want to see it grow and improve. But, ultimately, we're all here to have fun - hell, SE litera…

Sorry for the rant, but I've been meaning to say something along these lines for a long time

6

And, because that has expletives that not everyone would be happy seeing on the starboard, I'm going to clear the star, and ask y'all not to star it again please :) Feel free to star the message ^ if you'd like a record of it tho

Redwolf Programs

Despite having strong opinions on the issue, I do agree it's become a bit tiring (and has been that way for some time).

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, Programmer A :p

lyxal

01:45

@RedwolfPrograms I can settle on that ;p

Redwolf Programs

Oops I think I cleared a star off that by mistake

lyxal

yes

yes you did

Redwolf Programs

Whoever that was feel free to restar it

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms stoopid

you can't

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing For anyone who's interested, my list is: the flag debate; the fact that someone always has to exploit loose but fun challenges; and the intense rigor that we have to our rules

Redwolf Programs

01:46

Oh wait you can't?

Uh oh

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms chat don't let you restar something that gets unstarred

AviFS

@cairdcoinheringaahing What sort of intense rigor?

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal I'll pin + unpin if you like to give it an extra star :P

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing thank you very cool

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal status-completed

Redwolf Programs

01:47

I am definitely very good at ROing yep that's me

Coming up soon is "accidentally rename TNB" :p

/jkhopefully

caird coinheringaahing

@AviFS There are certain members of the community - not naming any names - who believe that unless an answer follows a very narrow and strict interpretation of our (mostly) lax rules, it should be deleted

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms nah you'd accidentally unRO everyone and manage to delete the room

caird coinheringaahing

if I ever become a mod, I think that might be my biggest issue wrt handling flags

Redwolf Programs

@lyxal Luckily I don't think I can delete rooms :p

I do worry sometimes that I'll accidentally RO someone, since the button is right next to the other ones

caird coinheringaahing

Only mods can freeze or delete rooms

lyxal

01:49

@RedwolfPrograms you'd manage to find a way :p

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Don't worry, I'll be happy to undo any mistakes :P

Redwolf Programs

AviFS

@cairdcoinheringaahing Hmm, you've clearly spent more time here than I have. I don't remember having come across that

hyper-neutrino

I can assure you it happens

far too much

AviFS

I do definitely get accused of exploiting questions a lot, though. Loose or not

caird coinheringaahing

01:50

@AviFS Having the ability to see deleted posts is a good way of seeing those cases

Too often, our mods agree with those users

AviFS

Bubbler, in particular I think, has seen a lot of them

@cairdcoinheringaahing Is that at 2000 rep?

hyper-neutrino

10k here

caird coinheringaahing

10000

AviFS

Oh.........

Damn

caird coinheringaahing

2000 is the ability to edit freel

AviFS

01:51

I hate SE

caird coinheringaahing

@AviFS Tbf, it does also grant you the ability to delete questions, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

hyper-neutrino

2k is the threshold for beta sites / before design / whatever

AviFS

I must be the lowest rep person ever who's active in TNB

caird coinheringaahing

Thomas Ward is (fairly) active here, and he has IIRC 101 rep on CGCC :P

AviFS

Tbf, Marshall is sometimes in APL Orchard, and he's at 10, or whatever you start with

caird coinheringaahing

01:52

So does Catija :P

Redwolf Programs

IIRC Wezl had a few hundred when they first started chatting here a lot

AviFS

@cairdcoinheringaahing No fair! You know what I mean!

caird coinheringaahing

Fine:

Anush

627 1 2 22

AviFS

Does anyone else use TNB but never touch main or meta?

hyper-neutrino

i could've sworn anush had more rep than that

AviFS

01:54

@cairdcoinheringaahing Isn't Anush more often in Tarpit Silliness?

caird coinheringaahing

Anush is here fairly often

lyxal

@AviFS no

hyper-neutrino

guess i am misremembering

AviFS

⍤

Anush hasn't posted any answers

Only questions

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Look at their network account from their chat account vs their network account from their CGCC account

@AviFS What counts as "touching" main or meta?

AviFS

01:55

What I don't do :p

I look at it, for what that's worth

caird coinheringaahing

Does reviewing count?

@cairdcoinheringaahing Wait no, that doesn't work :(

AviFS

@cairdcoinheringaahing shrugs maybe i'm not so special

@cairdcoinheringaahing Did you get a chance to read DLosc's post, though? I thought most of it was about an insight that was much bigger, and which I found a really interesting way to frame & understand much of CGCC's disagreements.

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing In short: Anush had an account here (user9207 IIRC) but deleted it a while back

hyper-neutrino

ah. that explains it

caird coinheringaahing

...damn, I have a good memory, it was user9206 :D

hyper-neutrino

01:58

no it was 9207

caird coinheringaahing

Really? I thought codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/26323/… was by Anush?

hyper-neutrino

well given this is by anush this should be too

caird coinheringaahing

Uh, Anush, could you look at the list of your newest questions? I see far too many patterns there — the default. Apr 3 '20 at 2:38

Yep

Guess my memory is better than I thought :P

lyxal

CMQ (completely off topic btw): for those of y'all who are vaccinated against covid, which one did you get (as in, astro, pfizer, etc)

caird coinheringaahing

Pfizer

hyper-neutrino

02:01

pfizer x2

Redwolf Programs

Pfizer

lyxal

Okay thank frick

hyper-neutrino

canada discontinued AZ before i got vaccinated lol

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms Only one which is approved for under 16 here IIRC, and I was under 16 when I was vaccinated

hyper-neutrino

yeah i think moderna is only approved for adults

lyxal

02:01

The fact that y'all had Pfizer and are still alive provides a bit of relief

Because I'm upgrading to free 5g in an hour and a half

Redwolf Programs

Nice!

caird coinheringaahing

I did. I think DLosc makes a good point that we're framing it as an XY problem, and, in that context, I agree with them. However, I believe they're missing the point: flags are meaningless in the way I interact with the site. I interact with the site in 4 ways: 1) I post Jelly answers, aiming to either beat myself or other Jelly golfers (as HN is more than aware); 2) I post challenges, in a fruitless attempt to create a challenge that is, IMO, perfect; 3) I review, and watch /active, to quickly get rid of spam/VLQ and welcome new users; and 4) I chat, and try to keep the chaos of TNB under …

AviFS

Existential Byte

caird coinheringaahing

Maybe others interact with the site differently - I have to imagine so given the ferocity of the flag debate. But, to me at least, flags are just as important as the pop-up when I click "Add an Answer" to the Sandbox: not.

That said, it's funny meme to say "vyxal = bad" and I often get Redwolf to join in because of flags, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :P

Redwolf Programs

I sort of think you're right but incorrectly so

I also don't really care, at least on the code golf side. I only really golf in JS, after all.

caird coinheringaahing

02:09

@RedwolfPrograms About what? "Vyxal = bad" or my take on the flag debate?

AviFS

@cairdcoinheringaahing Interestingl. You have to admit though, ironically you're the most dedicated user of JHT on your esolangs I've ever seen.

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing this you?

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms But there's another way I interact with the site: Designing languages

lyxal

Sep 8 at 23:58, by caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing I like the jokes, but as an RO, my first priority is making sure people are comfortable here, and if people are making jokes that make others uncomfortable (even if that person is me), I'd rather make an effort to stop that

Redwolf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing The flag debate

AviFS

02:10

In the spreadsheet with all the langs you've ever made, you have each one's JHT ranking. And, according to our newly coined terminology, that's a form of "Language Competion" :P

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal If "Vyxal = bad" makes you feel uncomfortable or unwelcome here, I'm genuinely sorry, and I won't continue with that joke in the future. I wasn't aware of any time that you said so, and forgive me if I missed any times that you did, but, if so, consider the joke dead

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms I don't care that much about Vyxal answers being cheaty to be completely honest. I care about Vyxal being cheaty, because as DLosc said, I don't want that to become the future of language design.

But anyway, I'd said I'd agree to disagree so I guess we agree :p

caird coinheringaahing

@AviFS It isn't competition, it's an attempt (albeit a poor one) to judge the golfiness of my languages, and my design ideas

I like trying to improve my own languages' golfiness, but I don't care about other languages beyond Jelly

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing thank you. It was kinda funny at first, but I've gotten to the stage where my first reaction is an eye roll. I've never said that I'm uncomfortable with it because I didn't want to sound like I'm a wuss and that I can't take a joke, but it's genuinely unfunny and kinda hurtful to me

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal Understood. Consider the joke dead, and I'm sorry for making you feel that way

Redwolf Programs

02:13

Aug 17 at 12:32, by Redwolf Programs

(I think the "vyxal bad" joke should probably avoided. Although I'm probably one of the strongest critics of vyxal, it's not particularly funny and it's probably pretty discouraging for the people who develop and use it)

I disliked vyxal bad before it was cool ;p

AviFS

Haha, Redwolf the Hipster takes the lead again

caird coinheringaahing

I do like the fact I can't remember the last time I made a "vyxal bad" joke tho :P

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing I appreciate that. Thank you.

Redwolf Programs

I mean like it or not, it's obvious Lyxal (and other vyxal contributors) put a lot of work into it

Unrelated String

^

lyxal

02:15

Like legitimate criticism is fine, because we're always open for improvement, but just saying vyxal is bad for the sake of it isn't exactly original nor funny anymore

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, I definitely think I've subconsciously at least acknowledged that, and I believe I've tried to offer constructive criticism (or, at the very least, grounded criticism with justification) in the Vyxal room a couple of times

But it's good to make it clear what is and isn't ok, even if it's just to clear any and all doubt

AviFS

@cairdcoinheringaahing Which is language competition, muahahahaha. But genuinely, I think it can be a useful way to understand the two different currents of wants/needs, often at odds, that run through CGCC's users. And I think it has potential to make future disagreements more productive, even if we're over this one, by better understanding where they're coming from. I personally wouldn't have come up with it. I feel like CGCC has been psychoanalyzed and is slightly better for it, haha

That is, CGCC users have been psychoanalyzed and are better for it :P

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal Also, again, I do want to say that if anyone is uncomfortable with a joke, please, let us (ROs, mods, those making the jokes) know. I can't speak for the other 7 of us "mod-power" users, but I personally cannot stand people who criticise others for "being a wuss", or "not taking a joke". People's feeling and concerns matter, and I will stand up for anyone who feels as tho they aren't being taken seriously because "it's just a joke"

Redwolf Programs

Maybe we should have an anonymous form people can submit that sort of thing to

Since if someone's uncomfortable with a conversation they're quite likely to not feel comfortable bringing that up publically

(I really wish there were RO flags, sort of like mod flags...)

caird coinheringaahing

I think, at least for the moment, it's less likely to come up that often, so a form might not be necessary.

However, I do want to remind people that you can reach out to us directly by creating a chat room with us (anywhere from a single RO to all of us) if you want/need to voice concerns, and we'll be more than willing to hear you out

7

AviFS

02:20

In the meantime, feel free to pin this as a template: I’d rather you not say "…" anymore.

hyper-neutrino

and keep in mind that if it's really necessary, feel free to open a room with me and ask me to private it

caird coinheringaahing

^

AviFS

Template: I’d rather you not say "…" anymore.

caird coinheringaahing

Was just about to mention private mod rooms if you feel it necessary

@AviFS For what context?

AviFS

For how to address it, I don't think anonymous forms or private rooms are necessary.

hyper-neutrino

02:22

well the wording doesn't really matter it's more so whether people are comfortable mentioning it publicly

caird coinheringaahing

If people have an issue with the chat room that they're willing to voice publicly, I'd like to imagine they can write up a message themselves :)

Redwolf Programs

^ :p

hyper-neutrino

an anonymous form probably isn't necessary but if you're uncomfortable voicing it publicly there are other ways around it

AviFS

What's difficult is that one feels like an explanation is owed. Even Lyxal's was unnecessarily apologetic and explanatory. The template makes it clear that no such thing is necessary.

hyper-neutrino

you can even flag yourself on the main site and one of us mods will see it

caird coinheringaahing

02:23

It's more that, if they aren't happy with it being public, we want to make it abundantly clear that you can reach out to us ROs, the mods in chat, or even the mods on main, and we'll find a way to resolve the issue

AviFS

Right, but then an RO or mod will say it instead: no more "vyxal = bad" jokes. And we'll have an idea of who asked for it, anyway. And we won't be any better for the indirection, imo.

caird coinheringaahing

@AviFS Not counting reviewing, the last thing I did on main/meta was this edit on the 28th of Sep

Redwolf Programs

@AviFS Not necessarily

AviFS

@RedwolfPrograms Is that clearer?

Redwolf Programs

I think there's ways to handle it that wouldn't imply that a specific user asked for the conversation to be stopped

hyper-neutrino

02:26

well discussing it one-on-one with a mod/RO and having them bring this request to the room is substantially different from opening up about it yourself

caird coinheringaahing

@AviFS Taking that as an example, lets say that lyxal reached out to me in a chat room with their concerns. My response would be, more or less the same thing as in here. I'd apologise for my role, and, in the future, I'd keep an eye out for any "vyxal = bad" jokes and shut them down with a neutral way that indicated that they're no longer funny nor welcome here

AviFS

@cairdcoinheringaahing I think you're misunderstanding. I could say the same thing. "If people have an issue with the chatroom that they're willing to voice privately, I'd like to imagine they can write up a message publicly." Me saying that doesn't help nor does it make me seem more right.

caird coinheringaahing

I wouldn't announce "Guys, no more vyxal = bad jokes", in the same way I haven't here, because I know that draws attention. I'd add it to my mental log of what is and isn't ok here (for example, I know it's old, but alex-is-wrong would make me step in and shut down the jokes)

AviFS

I'm suggesting that much of the difficulty comes from writing the message, and feeling like one owes an apology or explanation. And reassurance that "I'm not a baby, you can of course continue if you want to, but I'd rather not, if you don't mind..."

caird coinheringaahing

@AviFS However people want to voice an issue, I doubt they need a template to do so. It's a good thought, and I have nothing against it, but given that the starboard is often very fully, I'm not sure it needs pinning, that's all

AviFS

02:29

Oh, no I wasn't arguing in favor of pinning, haha

caird coinheringaahing

> I'm not a baby, you can of course continue if you want to

AviFS

But I was arguing in favor of making it easier to be more transparent with each other, rather than easier to anonymously report problems.

caird coinheringaahing

In my experience, that's how bullies get empowered

AviFS

The latter is very important, but I think only in communities where there is more potential toxicity under the surface than I've ever seen here

hyper-neutrino

@AviFS these two aren't contradictory

open communication is important but it'll never be perfect / easy for everyone and we should not deny the ability for people to communicate in private for the sake of "more public communication" because that's just counterproductive

AviFS

02:31

Right, I just think priorities are a bit skewed in terms of how you first proposed to approach the problem

hyper-neutrino

well, "let people here know if you're uncomfortable and we'll stop" has always been emphasized and was pinned here for its full max duration

so i wouldn't exactly say private communication was the first approach

Redwolf Programs

caird coinheringaahing

I think that most people here know that if they're very uncomfortable with a topic, they can let people know, and the conversation will stop. However, there are the odd topics where they've become "too public" to stop that easily. Often, long-running "jokes", or similar kind of things. In those cases, I wanted to make it clear that users have a more private option they can use, where standing up and saying "I don't think vyxal = bad is funny" will properly end the jokes about it

AviFS

@hyper-neutrino Of course, but given that you guys have obviously named Discord accounts on the CGCC server, I think anyone who needed to could make an account and reach out to you guys if they wanted to. I don't personally think saying "let us know privately whenever you have a problem and we'll take care of it" is the kind of environment we want to be cultivating.

@RedwolfPrograms I don't get it, Redwolf?

hyper-neutrino

why not?

AviFS

02:34

Are you saying I'm continuing the already dead flag abuse discussion?

caird coinheringaahing

@AviFS It's more "Let us know if you have a problem that you don't feel comfortable broaching in public, and we'll take care of it"

hyper-neutrino

as much as public communication is, again, very important, people should feel that they have the ability to communicate with someone they trust (I hope) privately if they're not comfortable in public

Redwolf Programs

@AviFS No, the image is unrealted to our current discussion

hyper-neutrino

also, not everyone has / will make / can make a discord account, just saying

Redwolf Programs

It just took a few minutes

caird coinheringaahing

02:35

@RedwolfPrograms Good meme, 11/10

AviFS

@RedwolfPrograms Oh, haha. Then I still don't get it, but okay!

hyper-neutrino

and not necessarily everyone is in that server, and might not necessarily find me

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms smh not making the background a solid colour. You once asked how I make my image sh*t posts, well for a start you don't have the fake transparent background. :p

Redwolf Programs

@AviFS The two people are at a funeral mourning the death of flag abuse discussion (because of the "agree to disagree" a few minutes ago), and basically remarking that they hated arguing about flags anyway :p

@lyxal I think it makes it slightly better because it shows just how obviously low effort it is :p

caird coinheringaahing

Even if the "something else" is "How to get in contact with the ROs/mods if youre uncomfortable" :P

AviFS

02:38

@RedwolfPrograms Oh thattttt flag abuse

If just said flag debate, I'd have gotten it!

But no!

caird coinheringaahing

At some point, I just need to a make a full on folder of CGCC specific memes :P

AviFS

The flag debate lives on in Existential Byte

Redwolf Programs

Here, improved :p

lyxal

AviFS

@RedwolfPrograms Surprisingly that makes a huge difference!

Should still call it "flag debate" though

hyper-neutrino

02:40

lol we already have a room for opt-in discussions

granted i just used it to kick politics out of this room so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

AviFS

Right, but I thought it was usually for more political kinds of controversy

caird coinheringaahing

AviFS

@hyper-neutrino My point exactly, muahahah

@cairdcoinheringaahing lmaoooooo

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing wow imagine using imgflip what a loser :p

caird coinheringaahing

(⌐■_■)

Redwolf Programs

02:44

I'm getting pretty good at CAD software now :D

I designed a cool thing today

It's two gears that...that spin!

caird coinheringaahing

2

And I think that's my last meme :P

lyxal

03:13

Hey guys how long does it take to get the 5g from the vaccine?

Because I'm looking forward to the juicy fast internet

pVC aecidiospore adduced

03:52

@lyxal let the vaccine molecules flow in your blood, converting hemaglobin to iron which can enable faster internet

Redwolf Programs

Offering free 5G to people who get vaccinated would actually be a pretty good way to get people to do so

DLosc

@lyxal I got the vaccine months ago, but I still don't have a smartphone, so IDK ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

pVC aecidiospore adduced

scam

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms well they're offering a chance to win a million dollars if that counts

Redwolf Programs

Sep 30 at 13:54, by Redwolf Programs

I like money though

lyxal

03:59

Hey don't go quoting the out of context messages I'm storing to quote out of context before I do! :p

DLosc

I love how joking about COVID vaccines and 5G is the uncontroversial topic in this chat room :P

7

Redwolf Programs

I mean, code golf does require a fair amount of logic and reasoning, two things which tend to be strangely absent among conspiracy theories :p

pVC aecidiospore adduced

5G caused covid

destroy 5G towers

5G will kill us aaahh

Is 5G Spelling Our DOOM?! How EM Waves Can Hurt

►

Redwolf Programs

Wait...potential rickrolling strategy?

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@RedwolfPrograms maybe

also this dumb guy is destroying 5G towers

lyxal

04:03

@DLosc we're that competitive that non-code-golf stuff is trivial

hyper-neutrino

"COVID" has 5 letters and if you take COVID-19 by summing the codepoints of COVID and subtracting 19, you get 354. if you divide that by 5 (the number of letters) you get close to 71 whcih is the codepoint for G. Therefore COVID-19 is being caused by 5G

pVC aecidiospore adduced

hi i am little bro

DLosc

04:19

Is it not possible to reply to a chat message in a different room from the room it was originally posted in?

Redwolf Programs

Hmm, that's an interesting question actually

hyper-neutrino

:59287779 don't think so

Redwolf Programs

Doesn't seem so

in Sandbox, 22 secs ago, by Redwolf Programs

:59287795 Yo

pVC aecidiospore adduced

ok now my math exam has started

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms Okay, then, I replied here

@AviFS Thank you! I'm glad to have provoked thought. :D

@RedwolfPrograms Probably wouldn't get enough interest, sadly. (Who knows, though, maybe I'd be surprised.)

caird coinheringaahing

04:31

Y'all ever look at the time, see it's 5:30am and realise that 1) you aren't tired in the slightest, and 2) you're going to end up pulling an all-nighter?

Part 15 in the "caird has an awful sleep schedule" saga :P

DLosc

1) Yes, 2) no (mainly because whenever I've stayed up that late, I haven't had to be anywhere the next morning)

caird coinheringaahing

I don't have anywhere to be until 1pm today, but I still know I'm not going to go to sleep

Redwolf Programs

Fun fact: You're over 100 times more likely to die from electrocution at your workplace if you're male

I'm sure the demographics of the jobs that are most often in contact with electricity are a large part of that, but it's still a really really surprisingly large difference

caird coinheringaahing

smh this sexism is awful. I support the right for anyone, regardless of gender to be electrocuted at work gosh darn it!

Bubbler

04:46

I already experienced electrocution in my office a couple times

Fortunately it was an MCU operating at 5V, not the regular electricity plug of some hundred volts

Redwolf Programs

How can you even get shocked at 5V?

IIRC even 12v car batteries have only been reported to have potentially caused problems when the contacts broke skin

Bubbler

It still gave sparks through my finger

It had a lot of dense pins standing straight from it, so it's like 5mm apart between 5V and ground. Two points on a single fingertip have much lower resistance than going from one fingertip to another

Redwolf Programs

Makes sense, yeah

Oh, it's getting later here
o/

(I took one of my arms back from lyxal)

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms hey no fair give that back

You didn't pay the required "arm taking back" fee

@cairdcoinheringaahing well that means you get to hang with us more :p

caird coinheringaahing

As fun as y'all are, I'm using my insomnia to finish my math homework earlier :P

And man, I hate probability so much

lyxal

05:05

You probably don't like it because it's so unexpected

Niko

@RedwolfPrograms I got shocked by a LED light once

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Have you ever put the two ends of a 5V battery to your tongue?

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@cairdcoinheringaahing i have with a 9v

that was like the first chapter of the electronics book

@cairdcoinheringaahing and it was tasty :P

AviFS

05:22

Hey Raze! Long time no see? Or maybe it hasn't been...

pVC aecidiospore adduced

i submmited my math exam MCQs

i got 37/40 yaaay

Bubbler

Nice

pVC aecidiospore adduced

time to wait 1 hour for the subjective written part

Razetime

@AviFS hi

pVC aecidiospore adduced

05:57

CMQ: Lets say my stack is [2, 3] so then i perform > which ives 0, so should the stack be [2,3,0] or [0]

Unrelated String

if you have some good reason for comparisons to peek then you sure as hell also want a pop-2 (or cut out two elements below top) builtin

caird coinheringaahing

@NewPosts Status

...right, it's not in the user list

0

Q: Are parts of challenges allowed to be posted on their own?

Suppose there is a challenge that is rather hard, and has few answers. Is it OK to post a new challenge that is actually a part of the bigger and harder challenge? Of course, attributing the original author for inspiration is without question. The new challenge may be considered a duplicate (as t...

discussion asking-questions questions etiquette

New Meta Post ^

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@DLosc then according to Programmer B, flags are an unfair advantage , according to that: golflangs are also an unfair advantage

caird coinheringaahing

@Bubbler You may want to post a onebox to your Sandbox post, given that the bots are down

Looks like an interesting challenge, I don't know Lean well enough to judge how well it'll work as a concept tho

Bubbler

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Lean golf: Pascal vs. Fibonacci code-golf math combinatorics The Pascal's triangle and the Fibonacci sequence have an interesting connection: Source: Math is Fun - Pascal's triangle Your job is to prove this property in Lean theorem prover. Shortest code in bytes wins. You're free to golf down t...

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Every sane stack language (non-golfing or golfing) gives [0], not [2,3,0]

pVC aecidiospore adduced

06:07

@Bubbler yeah i tested that with forth

Bubbler

You might want to study Factor's combinators (it has things like "take two items, apply it to two binary functions, and push the two results to the stack")

caird coinheringaahing

I think Vyxal has that as well (called "parallel apply" IIRC)

lyxal

06:30

@cairdcoinheringaahing correct

But Vyxal's version also works with monads and (probably) nilads

pVC aecidiospore adduced

06:47

ok must give math exam part 2

@Bubbler ok

is there like a page or docs?

Bubbler

07:02

This should do but it's throwing 502 now :/

lyxal

@Bubbler web.archive.org/web/20201105124159/https://docs.factorcode.org/… for now

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@lyxal wat is web archive?

lyxal

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced it's an archive of the web

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@lyxal so every websites history?

lyxal

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced not every, but quite a lot

pVC aecidiospore adduced

07:15

@lyxal very cool

web.archive.org/web/20051201042652/http://www.youtube.com

pVC aecidiospore adduced

08:11

i found the meaning of 69!!

> The numerology number 69 is a number of idealism, family, and harmony. It's also a number of health and compassion. The number 69 is a philosopher and an idealist. It tends to determine an ideal way of being or method of doing and sticks to it, yet is open to alternate points of view and may change it's own ideal as a result.

also recursion (in functions) is cool

lyxal

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced that's the meaning, but not why it's funny

pVC aecidiospore adduced

yeah ok

ouch

my back is hurting

from writing the exam

i hate onenote because it doesnt allow to import multiple images ._.

finally submitted

Neil

08:33

what happens if a reply gets moved to a different room?

@cairdcoinheringaahing that's why I FGITW a Charcoal answer to it

Adám

09:43

CMQ: Do you know of an API service that can accept JSON for a table and then returns an HTML <table>?

user

10:57

@Neil Nothing, the reply continues to point to the correct message

Adám

But strangely, you can't reply to a message that's in a different room.

caird coinheringaahing

11:35

Tbf moving messages makes all sorts of weird things happen

If you pin a message in room X, then move it to room Y, it gets pinned to room Y's starboard

I think. It does something unexpected and weird

Wheat Witch

Is New Posts down?

caird coinheringaahing

Yes

Feel free to onebox your challenge :)

Wheat Witch

5

Q: The Area of Rectangles

Getting the area covered by a rectangle is really easy; just multiply its height by its width. However in this challenge we will be getting the area covered by multiple rectangles. This is equally easy ... so long as the rectangles don't overlap. If the rectangles don't overlap the total area c...

code-golf math geometry grid

caird coinheringaahing

I suspect Redwolf might have lost power, given that there are minor power outages across Texas atm

Adám

I was wondering about that when we bottified feeds. Bots should not run on individuals' metal.

caird coinheringaahing

11:45

It might be a good idea to look into a similar thing that Charcoal does, where it has 3 instances that it switches between every so often, each hosted by a different user

I know that hyper has a copy of the bots that he can boot up, but him and Redwolf live on the same timezone, so if they fail during their night, the room is botless

Aaron Miller

12:39

@lyxal My cousin Jim's Special Tonic

Adám

12:49

CMC: String consisting of 14 characters, each of which was assigned in a major version of Unicode. So the first character should have been there from Unicode 1.0, while the last character was only assigned with Unicode 14.0.

Aaron Miller

13:21

Vyxal dab

Redwolf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing Hmm, had power when I woke up

Wish I'd known the bots were down before I left for school :/

I have considered setting up a system where if one instance goes down another one activates, but I had started working on another project and forgot

The main issue IIRC was knowing when an instance was down

I guess pinging the other instances once every minute or so would probably work

I need to finish my library rewrite anyway, so maybe NP/SP 2.0 is in order

I should have it finished by tomorrow, I'll prioritize it.

pVC aecidiospore adduced

13:39

@cairdcoinheringaahing 1. no 2. no, i wake up at 9:00am

Aaron Miller

Jul 2 at 14:21, by Aaron Miller

@cairdcoinheringaahing Are you spying on me?

Codidact Posts

New Posts - Challenges - Code Golf: Find good coalitions

posted on October 04, 2021 by celtschk

As you might know, there were elections in Germany, and now the parties have to form a government coalition. Let's help them with it! A good coalition has the strict majority of seats (t...

caird coinheringaahing

@AaronMiller I'm too tired to spy on you :P

Aaron Miller

13:54

well that's reassuring :P

Redwolf Programs

14:04

Why did the JS people decide not to add private fields to classes until multiple years later >:|

pVC aecidiospore adduced

14:54

@Bubbler now its not

Redwolf Programs

Wow, people write some surprisingly scathing reviews of various lakes, seas, and bays on google maps

This is a review of the Hudson Bay

Others are a bit nicer

Existential Byte

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