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12:30 PM
@Panki @StephenHarris @RuiFRibeiro @VojtechTrefny Please don't use the "request for learning materials" close reason unless the question is actually asking for external resources. That close reason should only be used for questions like "Where can I find a good tutorial for foo". If the question is not asking for a link to some other place, the close reason is not applicable.
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Q: Are we abusing "Request for learning materials" as a reason to close?

garethTheRedRequest for learning material, from what I gather, is a request for links or pointers to offsite learning materials, or books, courses, etc. In fact, How do we feel about requests for learning materials? is defines it quite clearly. That doesn't cover a request to be taught something, but there ...

In the case of this question:
-4
Q: What is the Use of Metasploit tool?

Vatsal Dholakiya1) Can Anyone Explain what is the use of Metasploit tool in Linux? 2) How can I use Metasploit in Kali Linux? Any help would highly appreciated. Thank you.

The "learning materials" close reason is completely irrelevant and misleading to the OP. We can just close that as "Needs more focus" since it is just absurdly broad.
 
@terdon incidentally, I’ve often wondered what to do with questions that are closed but with an incorrect close reason — re-opening them to re-close them tends not to work out. Can mods single-handedly change the close reason, without re-opening and re-closing?
 
@StephenKitt no, but there's no practical difference
 
@StephenKitt what Andras said. We can simply reopen and close again.
 
and yeah, I definitely wouldn't let community try to handle the reopen-reclose cycle, even with 3 votes on SO
 
Or, if we catch it before the last vote we can close as whatever. In the example above, 4 users had voted to close with the "wrong" reason, but when I cast the final vote as "needs more focus", that is the close reason that stuck. The other votes are recorded, but the final reason is the one I chose because I'm a mod.
So yeah, feel free to raise a custom mod flag if you find things that have been closed with the wrong reason.
 
12:42 PM
address them to terdon ;)
 
"I'll have the usual one, terdon". It's even easy to type on mobile.
 
lol
 
@terdon ah right, that was the missing piece — I wondered how it ended up with the “correct” close reason but still all the original voters’ names!
 
big mod energy
 
@AndrasDeak that could actually be dangerous, “the usual one” can refer to a variety of things with terdon
 
12:50 PM
heh
 
1:27 PM
love the ~ there :D
Brb running it
 
@terdon I wonder if there are unicode look-alikes to - or ~
 
@terdon safe enough on Android ;-) (at least in Termux)
When I was a student a common trick for people who left their workstation unlocked was to create a ~ directory inside their home directory, and change their shell startup script to change to it — that way, on log in, their prompt would suggest they were in their home directory but they would see no files...
 
Andras comes back with a U&L corollary to Tracking down where disk space has gone on Linux? called "Tracking down where all this free space came from"
 
I'm so paranoid these days, I deleted the chat message. I know Andras won't be in any danger, but I didn't want to even have it in the transcript!
 
I don't know, it's been a while since we've seen him...
 
1:39 PM
A bit like telling people that Alt+F4 activates some super-whizzbang feature in chat!
 
In other news, Andras has just gone on a 3-week vacation
 
2:11 PM
@JeffSchaller Hopefully somewhere nice and tropical.
 
@FaheemMitha I'm only joking, sorry. Artificially inflating terdon's blood pressure by giving Andras an excuse to stay silent in chat
 
HBPaaS
sponsored by the NHS in this case
 
@JeffSchaller I didn't think he had actually gone on vacation. Who can afford it, these days?
I hear they are also going to do away with planes eventually. Or make them so expensive that only billionaires can afford it.
 
First planes, then spaceships! Or, the other way around
 
@JeffSchaller What spaceships?
 
2:18 PM
All of them are too expensive, at least for me
 
@JeffSchaller Ditto.
 
3:16 PM
Any Gentoo veteran there who can help me understand What emerge --update --newuse --deep @world has to do with package removal?
 
3:36 PM
You might get more Stack Exchange answers if you post on Stack Exchange ;)
 
@Quasímodo Ooh, Gentoo. I miss Gentoo. What happened to it?
@Quasímodo Looks like you should be posting on Codidact Chat. :-)
 
@JeffSchaller I'm trying to get some activity to Codidact... Hoping it will take off one day. Also I assume I'm not misusing this chat room by sharing a question from there, otherwise do let me know.
@FaheemMitha I don't know because I didn't use it before :P
 
@Quasímodo How are things going with Codidact?
@Quasímodo Sadly, Gentoo seems less visible with every passing year. I tried it once, and quite liked it.
 
@FaheemMitha I think it is slow, but the fault is not on Codidact's side, rather Stack Exchange has a massive inertia that will be though to displace IMO.
 
@Quasímodo though -> tough?
@Quasímodo If SE implodes, then Codidact is well placed to pick up the pieces.
 
3:49 PM
or "tough though" :)
 
@FaheemMitha It is awesome, but I'm afraid it's getting short of maintainers. Packages being dropped or falling behind and such... Well, that's just my impression.
@JeffSchaller Very much!
 
@Quasímodo That sounds accurate, based on my very incomplete and probably out of date knowledge.
Does anyone here know more?
 
I did not notice an active user using Gentoo here, but let us wait and see.
 
We have some gentoo questions.
 
I can't think of one (a /dev/chat regular who uses Gentoo) off-hand, either.
 
3:52 PM
But yeah, none of the regulars in here do as far as I know.
 
I used to use Gentoo, but found the whole approach to USE flags poorly thought out and ditched it in favour of Lunar Linux and these days NixOS
 
@ToxicFrog Are those source-based too?
 
Yes.
I don't know if Lunar is still around, though.
It was a contemporary of SourceMage (which I looked at but did not actually try)
 
@ToxicFrog OK. How big are the NixOS repositories?
 
@ToxicFrog Really? I find USE flags the best bit about Gentoo.
 
3:57 PM
@FaheemMitha according to repology, ~59k packages in unstable, a few thousand less in stable
 
@ToxicFrog Ok, that's quite substantial. Surprisingly so, for a distribution I've barely heard of.
 
@Quasímodo the concept of "since we're building everything from source we can give the user configuration knobs for build time settings" is good, but the implementation was a disaster
Since it's a single massive flat namespace with no conventions for how things should be named or organized
so you have (e.g., this was years ago so I may have the specific names wrong) the "xorg" use flag for "install xorg/xinit/etc along with the rest of the os", "x" for "build stuff with X support where possible" and "x11" for "build these three specific packages you've never heard of with X support, because for some reason they don't respect the plain "x" flag"
Lunar and NixOS both take the approach of scoping build-time options to the individual packages, and providing a way for the user to override them at package build/install time (either as a one-off or as a persistent system setting).
(Lunar additionally had an option to prompt the user interactively for build-time settings; while I like NixOS its UI needs a lot of work in this respect)
 
@ToxicFrog True. I don't find it much of an issue given that one can run equery u package to check out what they do and hopefully get a good idea. But annoying it is.
@ToxicFrog Sounds very useful. Because of course recompiling a medium-to-large package is a pain.
 
Source based distributions have a lot of advantages, though some tradeoffs in the direction of stability. It's a little surprising they're not more popular
 
@FaheemMitha nixos is in this weird place where it's extremely obscure in the desktop/laptop space but seems to be catching on in the server/vm space and has a large and very active package maintainer community
 
4:03 PM
@ToxicFrog Interesting. Which do you think is the best of the source-based distributions, currently?
 
(I suspect part of this is that packaging stuff for nixos is -- usually -- pretty easy, and writing your own package definitions that can be installed alongside the stuff from the official repo is also easy, so there's a lot of people writing one-off .nix files for packages they want and then going "might as well send in a patch adding this to nixpkgs")
(although getting those patches reviewed can sometimes take a very long time)
 
@ToxicFrog Is packaging for Gentoo harder, then?
 
@FaheemMitha the only one I've used in the past five years is nixos, and as far as I know there isn't anything else with the same focus on reproduceable builds and configuration
 
@ToxicFrog OK.
 
but I can't reasonably assess it vs e.g. the current state of Gentoo
I'm quite happy with it, at least
I never tried packaging software for gentoo, so I can't compare.
 
4:07 PM
@ToxicFrog So you do packaging for NixOS, then?
The really important things are standard documents, like Debian Policy. Unfortunately quite rare, it seems.
 
I do, yes -- I've submitted packages for a few openTTD-related tools, some improvements to the borgbackup packages, and I've got a fairly large patch in flight adding the Crossfire and Deliantra MMORPG servers
 
@ToxicFrog Ah, another Borg user.
Debian packaging isn't typically collaborative, afaik. Though maybe it is behind the scenes. Sounds like a somewhat different culture.
I imagine group maintainers of a package might work together to some extent. Especially for more complicated packages.
 
The package database is also a massive git repo written in the nix configuration language, so packages are added/updated by submitting patches to it; the CI system determines which commits to actually push as package database updates, and the Hydra binary cache pre-builds the more popular ones.
(so for a lot of packages, if you aren't customizing the build, installing them is a cache hit rather than needing to build them from source)
(which is nice for things like All Of KDE, or Chromium, or the like)
 
@ToxicFrog That sounds quite different from Debian. All the packaging is one repos?
 
So the nixpkgs repo is basically a git monorepo holding those configuration files for every package.
 
4:19 PM
@ToxicFrog So a really big repos.
 
Update channels (i.e. the things nixos installs in the wild consume to actually get software updates) are then branched off it at various points and with various testing requirements, with nixpkgs-unstable tracking master.
Currently it's about 400MB (+5GB of history).
 
Debian's packaging is separate for each package.
And I don't know if all of the packaging necessarily has a repository.
 
4:47 PM
I suspect that at some point the nixpkgs repo is going to get too large to be convenient and will have to be split up along category lines using submodules or something.
 
5:26 PM
@ToxicFrog How does NixOS rate on standards and bug reporting?
 
Sorry, my system started showing weird errors, and I had to restore my home partition from backup. Where were we? Ah, yes, terdon's command that I wanted to try, but I couldn't see what it ends up doing because my system errored...
 
I was wondering how long it'd take for you to recover ;)
 
let me run it again till the end this time
 
that's the spirit -- I mean, you definitely don't want to power your system off in the middle of that command
 
5:46 PM
@FaheemMitha no idea
 
@ToxicFrog OK
 

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