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escarlate adamantine
escarlate adamantine
1:52 AM
are not misled.
Emprunts intégraux (concept) : bdl.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/bdl/gabarit_bdl.asp?id=3787
And last but not least, Emprunts phonétiques : bdl.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/bdl/…
"Signalons, à titre d’exemple, le fait de prononcer un mot à l’anglaise."...
I really apologize in advance for not providing a thorough research paper exactly on the topic, I lack expertise and time, but the basic statements contained in a paper titled L’adaptation phonologique des emprunts à l’anglais dans les dictionnaires québécois are imho entirely sufficient to obliterate the statements from the above comment from Lambie. I'll quote a few lines:
"[...]
Les emprunts à l’anglais en français québécois ont ainsi suivi des trajectoires fort différentes de ce que l’on peut observer ailleurs dans la francophonie, et notamment en France, où l’anglais a d’abord pénétré par la voie de l’écrit et où l’anglicisme est depuis longtemps considéré comme une marque de culture, voire associé à une forme de snobisme ou de technocratie. Au Québec, la présence d’anglicismes résulte plutôt de contacts prolongés et directs avec l’anglais, à la fois à l’oral et à l’écrit, rendus possibles par de réels contacts entre francophones et anglophones, à tout le …
"[...]
Il en arrive à la conclusion que « le français canadien a substitué aux phonèmes anglais les phonèmes qui, dans son système, s’en rapprochent le plus au point de vue auditif et, à certains égards, articulatoire » (Gendron 1967 : 48). Son étude porte toutefois sur des francisations attestées au début du 20e siècle et l’auteur est d’avis que l’adaptation phonologique des emprunts à l’anglais à date plus récente suit une logique différente, notamment en raison d’une connaissance plus répandue de l’anglais. "
"[...] Ces travaux se sont concentrés sur l’adaptation de traits particuliers de l’anglais, par exemple la longueur vocalique, les fricatives dentales ou la consonne /h/, ou sur le comportement dans les emprunts de processus réguliers en français québécois, comme le relâchement des voyelles fermées ou l’affrication de /t d/ devant /i y/, et sur ce que cela peut révéler à propos de leur statut dans le système sonore de cette variété. On observe par exemple que le relâchement des voyelles fermées en syllabe fermée s’appliquait aux emprunts anciens contenant des voyelles tendues longues en ang…
Since loans being pronounced as close to the original source language sound system is clearly at first glance something you have in Québec and since Québec French can clearly be an exception when compared to other varieties, it therefore follows the above comment from Lambie is utterly false.
Furthermore, the above comment clearly illustrates that one should not draw conclusions based on that personal experience which can only be of limited scope considering what I've just explained.
I'm a native speaker from Québec and the singing from the Cowboys and the way I pronounce, which is exactly the same, well they stand tall against any BS. They won't be denied.
I mean I don't need a paper to tell me how I speak my own freakin' language.
I was looking for that word there, it's called etiquette. I can't stand poor comment, voting, and content creation etiquette.
 
 
13 hours later…
silph
silph
2:47 PM
about the quotations about pronunciation: i'm slowly going through them (it takes effort), but it's fun for me to read. Québecois TV shows has been how I'm finally improving my French, so this information is interesting to me.

Before reading your French.SE about "parking", I was curious to see how they pronounce "parking" on youtube videos from French Canadians. Youglish has five videos, and interestingly, they all seem to say "parking" with a French accent: https://youglish.com/pronounce/parking/french/qc?
About eittiquette on French.SE, i hesitate to make a comment about this. i personally have benefited a lot from Lambie's posts, so I don't want to be too hard on them. but I do hear you that Lambie does sometimes come across as prescriptive. it doesn't bother me, again probably because I benefit from Lambie's content and my own understanding of my own native language isn't being questioned, but I do hear your anger. i should say that i very much appreciate your content, too.
i am lucky to have users who will answer my questions, and questions from other users that i can learn from.
 
 
2 hours later…
escarlate adamantine
escarlate adamantine
4:34 PM
@silph Thanks, that youglish tool is quite interesting. I reviewed the 5 examples, the first guy there says the word twice and he pronounces like the French would basically. The second example is a French person or European. The guy discussing a stage play pronounces just weakly but still, not like in English. The young woman, same thing.
The first guy is in Montreal clearly.
I speculate he's hypercorrecting because this is not a familiar setting/register. But there might be an age difference or origin that's at stake. The one who I'm certain is not correcting is the last example with the younger woman. She says it in a very natural way.
It's possible as hinted in the quotes I provided, that proficiency with the English language has an impact on this.
In Québec the folks who know English the most are from the South-West like in Montreal, and the Eastern Townships (Estrie). I speculate that's where you'll find the closest approximation of English for loanwords in a familiar register.
That's why I asked the question. But thanks, you research is insightful.
 

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