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2:04 AM
@user
class X():
    def __init__(self):
        self.at = 4


h = X()
m = h

h.at = 5

print(h.at, m.at)

m.at = 69

print(h.at, m.at)

def func():
    m.at = 120

    h = X()

    print(h.at, m.at)

func()
that's kind of how I imagine sub-contexts would work
s/h/CTX and s/m/Main_CTX
that way, CTX (h) can be masked within lambdas/functions
 
2:18 AM
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/context-object: added a bit more context
hyper-neutrino pushed a commit to VyxalBotSE/issue-mentions-author: sleep for 5 seconds before welcoming new users so they don't get the "mentioned in a room you're not in" notification
 
!!/pull
 
@hyper-neutrino pulling new changes; I will restart in a few seconds if any updates are available
 
wrong branch
 
@hyper-neutrino Welcome to the Vyxal chat room!
 
 
2 hours later…
4:20 AM
!!/howdy
 
@PyGamer0 hello to you too!
 
5:14 AM
!!/howdy
 
@lyxal hello to you too!
 
honestly I really don't know what's happening with Vyxal
as in, I don't know how to fix the mess currently resulting from the clean-up
sure, there's the context stuff, but even then I'm still not sure if that'll even work
what do y'all suggest to do?
just leave v2.5.2 as-is and 100% focus on v3?
restart the clean-up?
keep trying to fix the context branch?
 
5:36 AM
You know what? Screw it.
I'll just rewrite the whole thing
I've done it once, I can do it again
And I can do it properly this time
!!/hyperping
 
@AaronMiller @Ausername @hyper-neutrino @lyxal @math @pxeger @user ^
 
I'm rewriting the interpreter from scratch
2
Cleaner this time
 
:o
well just push semi-frequently and i'll review it and yell at you if needed
my code style isn't particularly great, granted
but i guess having a second pair of eyes on it to give feedback (even if you may just discard it cuz i'm stupid) might help :p
wait like
are you just rewriting the core part of it
or are you actually restarting the entire thing from scratch
like, specifically, what parts are you looking to replace @lyxal
 
@hyper-neutrino this
 
ah
do you want my help on any part of it :p
 
5:45 AM
The parser and dictionary are the only things I'll leave untouched
@hyper-neutrino sure, once I upload my first commit
 
aight :+1:
oh you're not touching the parser either? eh fair enough, even though it does weird things every now and then it's seemed pretty maintainable
i guess one part i can offer some help in at least is the generator/lazy list/infinite whatever stuff
i've successfully implemented infinite lists that go infinitely in both the positive and negative direction in both js and python for yuno so i have a bit more experience (read: pain) with that than i wish i did :P
 
But before any of us begin, we should probably see a) who wants to help rewrite everything and b) discuss a plan on how we are going to do things [eg, file formats, style, documentation etc]
 
good idea
 
So except for getting some basic stuff working, I won't be doing anything major until more people contribute
 
and maybe force everyone to install black to whatever editor / whatever they use :p if you're gonna do that anyway
 
5:52 AM
Good idea
 
although i absolutely hate getting my code auto-formatted, i'll stick to whatever standards the project i'm working on is using :p
 
Disclaimer: I have absolutely no clue on how to properly manage an open source project, so if anyone knows how to actually do things correctly, tell us
 
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Delete commands directory
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Delete docs directory
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Delete vyxal directory
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Delete tests directory
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Delete templates directory
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Delete static directory
 
wait you're getting rid of the front-end too?
(also why are these all individual commits lol)
 
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Delete .github/workflows directory
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Delete flask_app.py
 
6:02 AM
no more pipeline failed if there are no pipelines
 
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Delete reference_to_md.py
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Delete requirements.txt
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Delete .gitignore
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Now we can do things properly
 
@hyper-neutrino we'll probably keep those too
But I figured I'd just completely wipe everything
 
ah
fair enough
 
@hyper-neutrino because I'm on mobile
 
oh right
*merges into master*
 
6:06 AM
wait @lyxal you deleted everything
 
from the fresh beginnings branch, yes
 
@PyGamer0 I'm not going anywhere near master unless necessary
I can only imagine that redwolf and caird (and probably a few others) would be seizing the opportunity here to make jokes about "the fresh beginnings branch is the way vyxal is supposed to be - empty"
So I ask that this rewrite be contained here
The last thing I want is any of them being snarky about the fact that we're starting from scratch
Not until we make progress enough to make this worth all the effort
 
*insert that exact quote you said*
 
6:24 AM
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: This is what we're doing now
 
woo
+1 to hoping for a better vyxal
 
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Added some more info
 
So now we wait for the masses to read and discuss this new direction
o/ for now
 
as we re-implement the functions again, should we refer to the old functions for behavior / edge cases, or rewrite them based on what makes the most sense given the actual docs / what would logically make sense (I am in favor of the latter to avoid weird mixed code style and so we have a better chance of filtering out bugs from the old vyxal when we re-implement things, hopefully more properly / better)
o/
 
@hyper-neutrino I know I said o/ but I can't help but to answer this
Rewrite them based on what makes the most sense
I suggest still using the type dictionary idea for overloads
But avoid copy pasting wherever possible
Look at the old functions if you need help with how to implement something
But take them with a very large pinch of salt
Another suggestion: every time we implement a function, add test cases to the testing workflow
Also, we should have a tick list of the commands implemented
In regards to file structure: I suggest we have a file for helper functions (functions not directly corresponding to an element) and a file for element functions
My suggestions are not to be taken as what will happen
They are purely suggestions
Obviously I'll have final say on what happens, but what I suggest is not at all the final say anymore
I want to do things only if it's what the majority wants
 
6:34 AM
okay, sounds good, I think that all makes sense +1
I am assuming you still want Vyxal to be a transpiled language?
 
Yes
I'll add that to the readme
 
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Update README.md
 
also, what are your thoughts on using a ticket tracking system like JIRA? idk if it is really necessary over github's issues but my workplace uses it and I personally quite like it since it lets you easily categorize, modify, add comments to, discuss, assign, etc. tickets for things, including categorizing if something is major or minor, if it's todo or in progress or needing review from someone, etc
also I propose that we straight up ban pushing to main without at least one person who isn't the author reviewing the merge, but that might be extreme
 
@hyper-neutrino I'd have to read more into what that is
But it sounds good
@hyper-neutrino this I definitely agree with. I'll add that to the readme
My days of straight to main are over
@hyper-neutrino I also want to see what others say too
 
6:38 AM
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Update README.md
 
alright, sounds good. i'll probably draft up an explanation of it and its features and what they add over github issues / potential downsides to using it and pin it here for people to vote / provide feedback/opinions
 
Alright, now I'm going for real this time
 
alright o/ cya
 
6:54 AM
Alright, here's the TL;DR of JIRA (other ticket managing platforms exist, I'm just familiar with JIRA, but if someone who has proper experience managing a project at this scale knows of something better, please let me know).
Basically, the idea is to organize tasks, which is rather obvious, but the exact format depends on which template you use, and there are three that could make sense.
The reason I believe this is better than issues is because it allows you to easily see all of the work being done and track progress in an aggregated display format - whereas issues are mostly just a long discussion thread of something that needs doing until it gets done, tickets let you move something between to-do, being worked on, needing code review, etc.
It's easier to explain this knowing the templates, so I'll talk about the three that would make sense (the others are all for other work; these three are for software): Kanban, Scrum, and Bug Tracking.
The Kanban board probably makes the most sense for us, and essentially there are a bunch of categories for tickets and you can create them and move them between these categories. It's best for teams that follow a continuous workflow, and it lets you add and reprioritize work as you go along so the team is always working on what is most important.
The Scrum board is probably the least sensible as it is considerably more professional (it's what my workplace uses). Essentially, you can create, plan, and run sprints, which are like mini development lifecycles between releases.
It's suitable for larger projects where you want the ability to recenter the entire project at large every now and then, and also for actual companies because it lets you schedule these sprints around releases and customer deadlines, which is something we don't really have, since we just release as we hit our own milestones.
The Bug Tracking board would make sense here too, although it's considerably simpler and honestly rather close to GitHub issues anyway. Basically, you just get a single list of things, and that's it. You can prioritize things and whatever but it's just a list of tasks.
Of course, we'll still be using GitHub issues to report bugs (and so that people outside the development team can report bugs and add feature requests / VEPs) but JIRA is a way for us to internally track progress and keep our development organized.
We don't really have strict deadlines or anything as this isn't really a hard commitment for any of us, including lyxal - it's not like we are working for Vyxal Corp. and need to meet our deadlines or we'll be fired - I just think that an organized development environment would help make the process more efficient and maybe help the code be more organized.
Anyway, ^ is a quick explanation of JIRA and my thoughts on it. Let me know what you think. My main worry is that it's too sweaty or completely excessive for something at this scale, but Vyxal is no longer a small project by any means, and we have a considerable amount of developers now.
3
 
I believe JIRA's free option is enough for us (from what I can tell) lol
 
7:21 AM
okay, so I was just able to create a team, a board, link it to my test organization, create an issue, automatically link it to a branch, commit, and PR, and it was pretty easy, all i needed to do was include "TEST-1" in the branch, commit, and PR name if I wanted it to be linked to the issue
if nobody's used this before I'd be happy to organize this (if we decide we want to even bother with something like this, instead of just using GH issues to track things) and lyxal is willing to let me manage this
 
7:37 AM
I have no objections to letting you manage it
Do you think it's easy to integrate into VyxalBot?
 
I am not sure, haven't fiddled around with JIRA's webhooks or anything, but as long as they exist, I should be able to work it out
 
Then I look forward to seeing everyone else's opinions
 
7:55 AM
> The code clean up made everything a big mess. That isn't anyone's fault
!!/blame
 
@PyGamer0 It was Underslash's fault!
 
@VyxalBot ok @lyxal now update the readme with the correct information
 
!!/blame
 
@lyxal It was AviFS's fault!
 
No wait that'll never work
Blame never blames the person who wants to blame
 
7:58 AM
i should make it always blame the person who wants to blame /s
 
8:19 AM
@hyper-neutrino I'll wait until a few other people have commented on whether or not we should have jira before approving your request to install it
 
okay, makes sense. it should be fairly easy to link it later anyway; i'm just fiddling around with the settings a bit since i am not by any means an expert or anything, so i want to avoid confusion if/when we do decide to use it :P
but good to know the request did successfully go through :D
 
@hyper-neutrino heh, I got one email per account of mine that has the organisation owner status
 
oof :P
 
I'm glad I disabled issue emails for vyxal bot
Otherwise I'd be getting hundreds of notifications lol
 
lmao
ok i am going through random jira features and holy shit this is sweaty lol
i can fully customize the workflow including setting and making rules for all possible transitions between ticket categories
i can set up automated rules to detect github activity and modify tickets accordingly, so like creating a branch under a ticket can automatically mark it as in progress
even if we don't use this this is really fun to just mess around with :p
oh and there's a webhook rule
so yes, I can make VyxalBot affect tickets
TBH... i would not be that surprised if Jira automation rules are turing-complete lmao
 
8:33 AM
@hyper-neutrino wdym by sweaty?
 
like contains a lot of features and is capable of doing a lot
idk if "sweaty" is a term that other people use lol.
i roughly use it to mean "tryhard" more or less
 
"overqualified"?
OP?
 
somewhat, yeah
 
Nice
!!/bye
 
@lyxal o/
 
8:34 AM
o/
ok good, jira has webhooks
 
 
4 hours later…
12:18 PM
 
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Create contributing.md
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Create CoC.md
 
12:47 PM
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Update contributing.md
 
@lyxal
> This is my chance to make things right - to reactor Vyxal in a way that is clean, maintainable and less messy. This time, it'll be built by the community.
 
yes.
 
reactor????
 
frick.
 
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: oh I'm swiftkey, I'll just completely ruin the meaning of documents by autocorrecting things to stupid words.
 
12:49 PM
Anyone have any additions to contributing.md?
!!/hyperping
 
@AaronMiller @Ausername @hyper-neutrino @lyxal @math @pxeger @user ^
 
!!/ping me
 
@PyGamer0 I have put you on the ping list.
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Update README.md
 
> My own personal hopes for this project are:
My personal hopes for this project are: :: sounds better
 
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Update README.md
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Create How to deal with flag variables.txt
 
12:53 PM
@PyGamer0 check your email that you use for github ;)
 
@lyxal um i am not at computer so you will have to wait
 
dang
 
@VyxalBot working on a security policy atm
@lyxal ^
 
@pxeger thank you
@PyGamer0 v
 
@lyxal ooh thanks
 
1:03 PM
pxeger pushed a commit to Vyxal/security-policy: add security policy
pxeger pushed a commit to Vyxal/security-policy: mention security policy in contributing.md
PR #189 (Vyxal/Vyxal) opened by pxeger from Vyxal:security-policy into Vyxal:Fresh-Beginnings: Add a security policy
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Add a security policy (#189)
PR #189 (Vyxal/Vyxal) was merged by Lyxal from Vyxal:security-policy into Vyxal:Fresh-Beginnings: Add a security policy
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/Fresh-Beginnings: Revert "Add a security policy (#189)"
Lyxal deleted branch Vyxal/experimental
 
You’re not rewriting the builtins, right?
Because that’d take an awful lot of work
 
@user no
 
I’m hopeful about the rewrite though
 
> We're implementing the v2 command list
 
While we’re at it, how about making Vyxal fully interpreted?
 
1:17 PM
no
have you read the README?
> Vyxal will still be transpiled. Unless someone presents a feasibile way to make vyxal interpreted, I want to stick with the simpler option.
(I'm not agreed that making it transpiled is at all simpler, but whatever)
 
I have a feasible way :P
^^
 
@pxeger I once tried to make an interpreter for Keg. It didn't end well. Transpilation did work well. Also, transpilation means I can piggyback off features within python such as scopes and defined functions
 
hmm ok
 
Lyxal pushed a commit to Vyxal/security-policy: That last line seems kinda redunant
 
anyhow,
!!/'night
 
1:24 PM
@lyxal o/
 
\o
 
1:36 PM
7 hours ago, by hyper-neutrino
Anyway, ^ is a quick explanation of JIRA and my thoughts on it. Let me know what you think. My main worry is that it's too sweaty or completely excessive for something at this scale, but Vyxal is no longer a small project by any means, and we have a considerable amount of developers now.
still waiting for opinions on this if anyone has gotten a chance to take a look
i'd be happy to provide screenshots or a screen recording of how it might work
 
ngl seems entirely unnecessary
 
now i am in the vyxal gang.
 
2:00 PM
@pxeger fair enough. i'll do a quick demo on my random sandbox project and see what y'all think; it can get complicated but it doesn't really need to; even then it still might be excessive and i might be overthinking how much of a project this actually is
i just don't want messy code to accumulate as a result of poor organization or everyone just randomly working on whatever but at the same time maybe this won't even help
 
2:13 PM
@pxeger It does seem a bit much for something that isn't super serious (except maybe for lyxal), but I've always wanted to try out stuff like this myself ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
that's fair - its capabilities are much more than we need but we don't have to use all of them, and my main goal is to have good structure and organization, not that it has to be some really formal or serious project
 
And I'm 100% for that
 
also might be a good experience :p but i can understand if everyone thinks it's just unnecessary and issues + this chat are enough organization
 
I'm mostly just contributing to Vyxal for the experience :P
This chat is not enough organization imo. I'd prefer a Discord server with channels, but like lyxal says, that could fall apart, and it doesn't seem well-suited for this stuff
GitHub's Projects thingy isn't bad, but if JIRA lets you do all that stuff (for free), I say let's go for it
 
jira is using a cannonball to kill a fly
github is more than enough if you use it right
 
2:25 PM
@Razetime I read that as cannibal at first lol
 
2:39 PM
@Razetime fair enough
@Razetime imo we kinda aren't though :p
but yeah, it might be easier to just enforce better usage of what we have
primarily just don't fucking push to main anymore lmfao
3
 
Unless we really want to /s
 
ಠ_ಠ
 
You look like a frog
 
> ಠ_ಠ
^ Frog
 
2:46 PM
bruh
lol
 
Do you ever look at Vyxal answers and go “I’m about to end this man’s whole career”?
 
Uh-oh
 
i've done that a couple of times
 
Please tell me it's not one of my answers
 
even though i know like nothing about vyxal
 
2:47 PM
1
A: Find an Illegal String

A usernameVyxal, 15 bytes «⁽;«»⁽;»`⁽;`⁽; Try it Online! ⁽ defines a one-byte lambda, and ; closes a non-length-specific lambda. This throws a syntax error no matter what. The rest is to make sure it runs no matter what.

 
sometimes i see answers (usually a username or stack meter, no offense intended :P) and think "yeah i can probably halve or 1/5 this"
oh you mean you broke it
 
@AaronMiller Poor A username
 
@hyper-neutrino Maybe…
 
What's the crack?
 
2:48 PM
I figured I’d give someone else a chance to crack it if they do put it in the CnR, but let’s just say it uses a recently discovered bug.
 
quick minimal jira demo up (only standard definition available right now) - I didn't go into details on how we'd use it or organize ourselves or anything like that, but just a quick demo of its basic features
(and the basic features are pertty much all we're really gonna need / want anyway)
 
That’s the second Vyxal illegal string that I’ve legalized, too.
 
I nearly had a heart attack with that Youtube link
 
@AaronMiller :(
I felt that
 
2:49 PM
@user wait why
 
This room is known for rickrolling
 
did you think i was gonna rick-- oh. yeah fair enough
i would never do that to y'all though :)
 
Riiiiiiiiiiiiight
How easy is it to link GitHub issues to JIRA or something like that?
Or for random people to make JIRA tickets or whatever without making an account?
 
random people can't make jira tickets
that's why we'd still use github issues
 
Then what's the point of JIRA?
 
2:52 PM
but like, jira isn't to have a public record / board of issues, it's for internal organization
i'm not sure about linking github issues, i'll take a look at that
 
Oh
 
hm, from a quick web search, there isn't a way to sync github issues and jira tickets
i mean, as for how to link them, just copy-paste the link lol
 
ig we could do that
 
but i will take a look at setting up an automation system - if we need that, i could even code it myself
by just setting up a webhook on each end
 
3:27 PM
!!/issue BF character builtin There are builtins for a bunch of random things, like `([{<`, but one that we are missing is a builtin for the BF command set, even though it would be useful for pretty much any BF question. I think this builtin should be added. enhancement
 
Vyxal-Bot opened issue #190 in Vyxal/Vyxal: BF character builtin
 
 
8 hours later…
11:23 PM
So if I've read correctly, the popular opinion is that JIRA is probably too powerful for our needs. But I'm not sure if there's a definite consensus on whether it's yes or no.
 
it appears to be that way
i think most people have said that it is too excessive but also have not downright rejected using it
we don't have to use it to its full capabilities - the amount of workflow customization, integrations, automated processes, etc. is far too excessive for anything I can think of that we'll possibly want or need ever, but we can also just stick to the basic ticket tracking system which nicely automatically connects with what we do on github
i have to go teach now but i will write up a more clear question list / poll to try to get a final opinion or decision
two broad questions i'd like to ask though are (the first for everyone else, and the second for lyxal)
what are your goals from this or what do you want to contribute / want out of working on vyxal? is it just to have some fun with a casual project? help lyxal out with making their language? get some experience (whether or not it's necessarily helpful for either future projects or future professional things)? etc.
what do you want the vyxal project and development team to be like? more of a casual gathering, like a group of friends, working on a fun idea together? an organized team working to create a project (of course that doesn't mean there's no fun or that it's anything close to a company structure - we don't need to have any hierarchy and can just be a couple of fellow CGCCers working on a thing but still be organized)? etc.
both rather broad, but might give a better idea as to a) if Jira is necessary (it's apparently not JIRA, that's my bad), b) how much of a contribution policy/guide we need to set up, etc. I am personally a fan of using Jira here because it'll be a learning opportunity for all of us but of course it would be selfish of me to demand that from anyone, so I am just offering the setup if the democratic consensus is that we want it (which it seems that it isn't wanted), ...
... but beyond that, also just a general direction - i can't really say vyxal lacked direction beforehand but dev sometimes felt kinda cluttered or a bunch of people doing their own things and pulling it apart (especially during the cleanup)
 
11:38 PM
@hyper-neutrino well, you can say that it did lack direction to an extent
Like sure we had feature requests and bugs, but other than that, not much was actually coordinated
@hyper-neutrino I might need a bit of time to think of my answer to this
 
@lyxal It's more powerful than we need, but that doesn't mean we can't use it
 
I'll probably put in inside a document on the repo kekw
@user of course, I was just stating that people's first opinion is that it's probably more than we need
 
@hyper-neutrino Might want to make this a poll somewhere
 
Hyper's questions are good
 
Ye
 
11:40 PM
And I'd appreciate it if y'all answered the first one some time soon
 
@hyper-neutrino All of these, honestly. Vyxal is fun despite the frequent fires (often caused by me :P), y'all are great, and I get a little practice with Git, GitHub, testing, stuff like that
@hyper-neutrino More of a casual gathering - we need a bit of organization, but no real hierarchy (except for lyxal basically having a veto on major decisions, since it's their language)
@hyper-neutrino a) JIRA IS NECESSARY (YES I USED ALL-CAPS AGAIN BECAUSE YOU LIED TO US AND I AM ANGRY) b) I don't think we need to worry about that too much, Vyxal's not too serious and I'd like to keep it that way. At the same time, we need a few clear, common sense guidelines just in case
 
ysthakur pushed a commit to Sandbox/master: Create questions and answers.txt
2
 
^ Made that file for people to add their answers to HN's questions
Should I pin HN's questions or that?
 
11:56 PM
The file
Answers might get lost in chat here
 

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