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ngn
3:00 PM
dice usually have uniform distribution
 
It doesn't say we have to use dice.
 
How the hek do i random.shuffle with output on TIO?
 
random.shuffle is in-place
random.shuffle(a)or a is hacky but works, if you need one expression
 
I know it is inplace, which causes my grievances :p
 
well, unfortunately you just have to suffer then :p
i don't know of a "return random permutation" function in python random
 
3:04 PM
Nah, I used shuffle
 
@N3buchadnezzar mutating arguments is a standard allowed I/O method
 
jelly has it as a one-byter for some reason even though randomness doesn't feel that important
 
@NewPosts Brute force in APL, with no consideration to distribution: {2+?6⍴15}⍣((∨/⎕>⊣)∧(∨/⎕<⊣)∧⎕≤1⊥⊣)⍬ Try it online!
 
ngn
@hyper-neutrino as they say in cryptography, randomness is too important to be left to chance :)
6
 
I like how Shaggy answers a closed question
 
3:06 PM
you can answer a closed question for up to 4 hours after it's closed as long as your page hasn't updated
 
I mean this should work, it is not very random. but the OP did not specify it Try it online!
 
@Adám the challenge in its current state would allow (x,y,z)=>[x,y,z,random_choose([1,2]),0,0] (in psuedo-JS)
you could use that
 
Ah, yes.
@hyper-neutrino Why specifically 4 hours?
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
there's probably some reason but IDK what that reason is
 
/ \
I was too late to add legs to your stickman =(
 
3:08 PM
lol
 
@N3buchadnezzar You also need indentation:
⠀⠀/ \
 
Depends on the stickman does it not?
But yeah, I just took in [h, l, t] * 2 and shuffled the elements :p
 
that sounds invalid
 
I mean he did not specify an upper bound on the numbers
I could guess that 18 was the limit. But using t really makes sure that our sum is above t...
 
Morning!
 
3:14 PM
Morning
 
Haven't been here in more than 48 hours :/
Did I miss anything important?
 
@RedwolfPrograms Only random things.
 
Wait, BMG already?
Huh, I guess it has been two weeks
 
*insert drugs quote*
 
3:15 PM
@Bubbler Scala: _.grouped(2).sortBy(_.sum).flatten
May 25 at 17:56, by Redwolf Programs
May 19 at 14:21, by user
Feb 28 at 1:17, by caird coinheringaahing
idk the physics behind it, but time has been on some hardcore drugs for the past 18 months
 
That's 100% the most quoted thing in TNB :p
 
I wouldn't bet on that
 
I count 10 times, I suppose it's possible there's one with more quotes
We can always trust YT to be unbiased lol
 
@RedwolfPrograms Did someone rick roll you again?
 
mm I see nothing wrong with these choices
 
@N3buchadnezzar Pretty sure they're talking about how the scale doesn't list "Bad", "Very bad", "Extremely bad", and "Absolutely instanding"
 
@pxeger my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined
 
lol
 
@user And I made a joke that Redwolf was hoovering over the Not good
 
3:24 PM
@pxeger An anti-rickroll?!
@N3buchadnezzar Oh
 
I feel like this is just so that the dev team can report "x% of our users reported that YT was 'good' or better", when "good" is the equivalent of "poor" on any actual scale
 
> √ Not good… Why do you think so? (free-text): [Because the grading scale doesn't have enough "bad" gradings]
 
It doesn't even ask you why you think it :|
 
@Adám lol, never seen anyone use the square root symbol as a tick mark before
 
@user I don't have checkmark on my keyboard, and I didn't bother to look it up.
 
3:26 PM
> On a scale from 1 to 10, how likely are you to recommend product X to a friend?
> 0
> I need you to understand that people don't just go about recommending products for no reason
 
Exactly. ^ this.
@user Correction, it is there: ✔
 
@pxeger Why not just choose 1? Presumably, that means you definitely wouldn't recommend it
 
@pxeger The classic response is of course "have you ever met a Linux user?"
 
Wait, has there been no rick roll codegolf challenge?
 
@RedwolfPrograms lol
 
3:27 PM
There has, please don't do it again
 
@N3buchadnezzar output the whole lyrics? yes, there has
 
277
Q: We're no strangers to code golf, you know the rules, and so do I

PolynomialWrite the shortest program that prints the entire lyrics of "Never Gonna Give You Up" by Rick Astley. Rules: Must output the lyrics exactly as they appear in the above pastebin*. Here's the raw dump: http://pastebin.com/raw/wwvdjvEj Cannot rely on any external resources - all lyrics must be ge...

 
No, I meant the music. Shortest way to start playing the song
 
It's like the top dupe target on the site for random kolmos lol, don't add another
 
kolmos?
Is that what people call them?
 
3:28 PM
it is now
 
And so it was
 
Easier to spell than koolmeagerov complexuscity
 
CMC : Output "Kolmogorov Complexity" (without the quotation marks) exactly.
 
@hyper-neutrino ato.pxeger.com/…
 
@hyper-neutrino Python, 0 bytes: ``
 
3:30 PM
what
 
@hyper-neutrino looks like is a meta tag there! We should burninate it!
 
@hyper-neutrino Without quotes. There is one quote ("Kolmogorov Complexity"), so I removed it
 
lol
 
ftfy
“¢ɲq¡8@ÄẆ*ÇzẸ» in Jelly
 
It's that long?
 
3:32 PM
How do you compact text in jelly?
 
Would've been 7 in Ash
 
Just found this comment in some code I wrote:
> will give 5 instead of 4 (5-3=3)
4
 
???
Please tell me you wrote this code when you were a drunk toddler
 
@user No, just a couple of months ago.
 
3:33 PM
Ahhh, so you dont do it manually. Phhew
 
@Adám non sequitur
that doesn't necessarily mean you weren't a drunk toddler
 
Is there any context for this?
 
@hyper-neutrino Vyxal, 12 bytes:`K꘍Ġ꘍τrov ₁Ȧ
 
@N3buchadnezzar that's the decompressor, actually
 
@hyper-neutrino Japt, 18 bytes, Kol¶gŽov CÇ,exŠy (plus a leading backtick; can't remember how to escape them in chat
 
3:34 PM
@user Sure, but it doesn't matter. Simple typo, I presume.
 
@pxeger Unless Adám is Benjamin Button or a time traveler, that's highly unlikely
@Adám lol
 
I just can't believe Jelly's string compression would make it that long
 
Oh, I thought the typo in "typo" was a joke
 
(Of course I had to make a typo in the word "typo".)
 
Still nothing on the Thud challenge...
https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/230966/play-thud-troll-edition?noredirect=1#comment529591_230966
I'm pretty sure it's going to be a bounty, now.
 
3:35 PM
@Adám ). > .)
 
@RedwolfPrograms it's dictionary based and it seems there's not too much of "Kolmogorov" in the dictionary
 
@pxeger ?
 
@pxeger Is that up side down smiley
 
does vyxal have a compression util
 
punctuation like full stops should go on the outside of the brackets
IMO
 
3:36 PM
if not imma go make one it should be a pretty simple DP
 
@pxeger I follow logic rather than strict rules.
 
@Shaggy `foo can be done with `\`foo`, I think
 
@pxeger It deppends, the . goes inside then it is a complete sentence and outside otherwise
(sentence.) <- fine
Some words here (text.) <- not fine
 
@N3buchadnezzar It's a smiley with an eyepatch and a dark tale to go with it...
 
I also do: Then he asked, "where does it go?"
Even though the rules say the ? goes after "
 
3:37 PM
@Razetime Nice work! Incidentally, my 7-byte solution was different. The : metaoperator is your friend. ;)
@Adám Not in this case--the ? belongs with the question, and the question is inside the quotes.
 
CMQ: If I want to ask if someone said something that ended in an exclamation mark, do I say Did Bob say "Hooray!"? or Did Bob say "Hooray!" or Did Bob say "Hooray?"? (American or British English)
 
one of the first two
 
@hyper-neutrino You can use øC to compress numbers, øc to character compress strings, and øD to dictionary compress strings.
5
A: Tips for Golfing in Vyxal

lyxalCompress your strings and numbers Nobody likes long strings. And nobody likes long numbers either. Luckily there's two ways of compressing strings and one way to compress numbers. Dictionary Compression Fun fact: Vyxal has access to a roughly 20k word "dictionary" (read: a list of words) which ca...

 
ah nice
 
I'd go with the first, but I have a feeling the second is probably the one more recommended by style guides
 
3:39 PM
@user Either the first one, or Did Bob say "Hooray"?
 
Ash's dictionary did have "kolmogorov" it seems
 
i wonder if this is optimal
 
The first makes the most sense to me, although the question mark should go inside in American English. The last two leave out either the exclamation or question mark, which is weird
 
I assume so
 
The question mark is more important than the exclamation point. The exclamation point only indicates intonation, but the question mark could change the meaning.
 
3:40 PM
@user I'd definitely use Did Bob say "Hooray!"?
 
Thanks, I'll go with the first next time, then
 
@Adám but would you use I'd definitely use Did Bob say "Hooray!"?*?'?*
 
Does this question end with "?"?
 
@Adám this sentence is false
 
@Adám Yes!!
 
3:41 PM
Should questions that contain question marks at the end end with another question mark; for example, "Does this question end with '?'?"?
 
@hyper-neutrino It wasn't before, but recently A username made some changes to optimize it: github.com/Lyxal/Vyxal/commit/…
 
@Adám It does, but is it grammatically correct?
 
@hyper-neutrino I'd say yes
 
"James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher" is an English sentence used to demonstrate lexical ambiguity and the necessity of punctuation, which serves as a substitute for the intonation, stress, and pauses found in speech. In human information processing research, the sentence has been used to show how readers depend on punctuation to give sentences meaning, especially in the context of scanning across lines of text. The sentence is sometimes presented as a puzzle, where the solver must add the punctuation. == Meaning == The sentence refers to...
 
@hyper-neutrino can you construct a sentence with more ends in a row than that?
 
3:42 PM
@Adám Ninja'd
 
@Adám The old man the boat.
 
@pxeger The horse galloped past the barn fell.
 
The complex houses married and single soldiers and their families
 
^ is my favorite garden path example usually
 
3:43 PM
Violinist linked to crash blossoms.
 
TL;DR language is confusing lmao
 
@hyper-neutrino That's pretty much my impression of golfing languages in general :p
 
Don't buffalo with confusing language!
 
The baseball hit the window, and it shattered.
The vase hit the floor, and it shattered.
 
Adám's son says: buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo.
 
3:45 PM
I've probably said this before, but I really wish all of humanity just chose one or two well-designed constructed languages for everything
 
@DLosc That's one heavy vase.
 
@user Lets go with “¢ɲq¡8@ÄẆ*ÇzẸ»
 
@N3buchadnezzar That decompresses to Kolmogorov Complexity, wdym?
 
Chinese has an interesting one, 冬天能穿多少穿多少;夏天能穿多少穿多少
it means "wear as much as you can in the winter, wear as little as you can in the summer"
but both "wear as much" and "wear as little" are 能穿多少穿多少
 
Ooh, interesting
 
3:47 PM
How?
 
Isn't there a poem in Chinese that uses only different tones of "ma"?
 
"能 <X> 多少 <X> 多少" pretty much means "do as much of <X> as you can"
"能 <X> 多 <Y> <X> 多 <Y>" pretty much means "do <X> as <Y>-ly as possible"
so it both means "do as much of <wear> as you can" and "do <wear> as <little>-ly as possible"
 
So could it be interpreted as the opposite? ("wear as little as you can in the winter, wear as much as you can in the summer")
 
@hyper-neutrino incidentally, “ʠṛk>ðḤjėa»⁾uoy is only 1 byte longer
 
ngn
@pxeger shi
 
3:48 PM
yes, or either of the other two of "wear as much as you can" for both and "wear as little as you can" for both
@ngn i tried listening to a recording of that and lost like half my brain cells lmao
5
 
How to learn English pronunciation ^
 
In Hindi, the words for yesterday and tomorrow, the day before yesterday and the day after tomorrow, and the day before the day before yesterday and the day after the day after tomorrow are the same iirc
 
what
 
@user We have a similar problem with relations. Sister-in-law can either be your spouse's sister, or your sibling's wife
 
3:51 PM
and cousin can mean like 17 different things
 
oh true
 
I hate ambiguity
 
@hyper-neutrino depends on the degree (?) of cousin
 
cousin means related but not descended
 
3:52 PM
I have vague plans to make a conlang where a lot of antonym pairs in English are the same word, with optional emotive particles to distinguish if necessary (e.g. "love" and "hate" are one word that means "have strong feelings toward").
 
sounds confusing
 
you don't say person can have billions of meanings, so cousin doesn't have that many meanings either
 
fair enough
 
Dearest creature in creation,
Study English pronunciation.
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.
I will keep you, Suzy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.
Tear in eye, your dress will tear.
So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.

Just compare heart, beard, and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,
Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written.)
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as plaque and ague.
But be careful how you speak:
If you think you're good at English, recite that!
 
@Wezl Yesterday = Tomorrow = कल, the day before yesterday = the day after tomorrow = परसों, the day before the day before yesterday = the day after the day after tomorrow = tarson (Google Translate gave me the wrong translation, and I don't understand my Hindi keyboard)
 
3:54 PM
@pxeger I do pretty well till it gets to the British place names. :P
 
at least if you see a word you have only like a couple ways of pronouncing it that are usually just differences in stress accenting
 
下 has like 8 ways of being read in jp lol
 
interesting
 
is hindi a phonetic language, or how does it work?
 
3:55 PM
there's the old "ghoti" thing in English
@hyper-neutrino what do you mean by phonetic? It has phonemes...
 
like, can you transliterate its symbols into pronunciation like you can with korean (with minor exceptions)
 
More or less, yeah
 
i should've specified i meant is the writing system phonetic (or whatever the real linguistic term is)
 
@pxeger idk why the blender stuff came up lol
 
so if its writing system is phonetic, i suppose homophones would result in a hindi word having multiple potentially totally unrelated meanings?
 
3:57 PM
I think it is - most symbols are only used for one sound
 
ah, cool
 
@hyper-neutrino I guess so? idk languages
 
username's better vyxal compression feels rather inefficient
not that inputs are large enough that it really matters but it's O(size of input × size of dictionary) i believe
 
I wonder if making more effective golfing language string compression is a valid reason for requesting access to the OEC
 
@hyper-neutrino No idea. I thought you meant optimal compression.
 
4:05 PM
@RedwolfPrograms The Observatory of Economic Complexity?
The Oklahoma Electric Cooperative?
 
No, the Oxford English Corpus
 
@AaronMiller 1. optimal can still be done in more efficient time complexity 2. this still doesn't look optimal
 
Aha
 
it just finds longest match each time instead of first match by dictionary order
in which case you could just sort the dictionary for O(NlogN, N = size of dictionary)
oh wait, no, i think this is O(size of input ^2 × size of dict) and old compression that was suboptimal was O(input × dict)
i'll try seeing if i can find an instance where this isn't optimal
 
@hyper-neutrino ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ idk, man. I haven't really taken a deep look at how any of the compression works.
 
4:07 PM
fair enough
 
vyxal's compression is super simple compared to jelly's, every pair of non-ascii chars is a base-160 number and gets indexed into a list of words lol
 
Sooo
Which is better
 
@hyper-neutrino That's very simple lol
 
vyxal's is easier to use, jelly's is more efficient i think
 
4:09 PM
(I am totally not trying to start a fight) ((grabs a big bag of popcorn))
 
correction: jelly's is better for compressing english-like phrases, vyxal's is better for mixing semi-compressible things
 
more efficient in most use cases at least
^
 
jelly's tends to actually make a longer compressed string if it's not that dictionary-compressible
 
I think Ash's would have been more optimal than either
 
i am planning on implementing both to yuno because i have an extra string terminator not in use (because jelly doesn't use it currently) :p
 
4:10 PM
I tried to optimize it for both english-like and not-english-like text
 
@hyper-neutrino There's also base-255 string compression, delimited by «: Try it Online!
 
oh, interesting
 
@AaronMiller every time I look at Jelly's syntax I get annoyed by the fact it's base-250 not base-255
 
using one string starter and N string terminators lets you implement multiple literal types without actually consuming those N characters for other built-ins
which is what Jelly does and also why its literal stuff is all in b250
 
why not N string starters and 1 string terminator then
 
4:12 PM
when i get around to spending two weeks on perhaps encryption it's probably going to be some kind of prefix code ngram shit
 
because then you can't use those N string starters as builtins
 
@pxeger because then you can't use them for builtins
 
oh
make it a flag!
 
Wait, I can just use Wikipedia as a corpus
 
ಠ_ಠ
 
4:13 PM
:|
 
if you see a string terminator while not parsing a string, it isn't a string terminator and you can use it for builtins
 
yes I understand, but you could make it a flag to improve string compression if you don't want to use those builtins
 
Why not just...make the string terminator symmetric? Like ”string”
 
then you can't use the string starters as builtins either
 
4:14 PM
That's not that important though, there'd never be more than like four right?
 
that's still four one-byte builtins you're missing
besides, how is this any better
base 255 instead of base 250 only saves a byte for a very small number of possibilities
 
Idk if it's any better than anything, I haven't been paying much attnetion to this conversation tbh lol
Maybe have one string starter and four terminators, but then you lose the golfiness of omitting trailing terminators at the end of a program
 
that is precisely what jelly does
 
@RedwolfPrograms (Unless you default to the most common one, which is sensible)
 
it also defaults to the normal string terminator
 
4:16 PM
Oh, ok
 
also, if you're compressing strings in jelly, there is a good chance you won't win anyway, because jelly is not great for strings
considering it doesn't have a string type at all
 
Wait what lol
 
it just uses lists of characters
you can technically get multi-character strings by like, doing addition on characters, but jelly can't work properly with them
 
@hyper-neutrino What happened to the sandbox post for the "wrap a string around a square" challenge? I've been waiting to fgitw it for like 5 days.
 
yesterday, by hyper-neutrino
probably too similar to https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/133650/making-squared-words, so I'm deleting it as a dupe
 
4:20 PM
* sad noises *
I guess I might as well post it here, then. I had 22 bytes in Vyxal: Try it Online!
 
Aren't you not supposed to work on challenges while they're in the sandbox?
 
@RedwolfPrograms What happens if you do, do the code golf police show up at your door?
 
^^
 
@RedwolfPrograms Oh, I didn't know that was a thing, sry,
 
@N3buchadnezzar It's just bad form. (and yes, the mods show up at your door and nuke your fridge)
 
4:24 PM
DO I SCHMELL SANDBOX CODE IN ER?
 
it's just kinda against the spirit of the challenge cuz FGITW is already a problem and having people pre-solve goes against the point of the sandbox making challenges good and fun for everyone as soon as it's posted
and yes, I will arm your refrigerator with nuclear warheads
 
A hydrogen bomb was once accidentally dropped from a US bomber. It landed on and killed a cow (but did not explode).
 
@hyper-neutrino Jokes on you, I don't have a fridge.
 
@hyper-neutrino Wait, just arm it and not explode them? Sign me up! I have some irritating neighbors I'd like to, er, teach a lesson
@AaronMiller Your icebox then
 
Jokes on you, my fridge is near empty because i am pathetic!
 
4:27 PM
All the more room for a warhead then :p
 
@RedwolfPrograms wtf lol
 
1 min ago, by Aaron Miller
@hyper-neutrino Jokes on you, I don't have a fridge.
s/fridge/icebox
 
@hyper-neutrino holy shit there's even half of a ninth reading that only occurs in 下手
 
More worryingly, one was dropped in North Carolina and almost did explode
 
@UnrelatedString 8 was just a random guess but is it actually that many lol
 
4:27 PM
Almost? What happened, did a cow eat it? :P
 
what's that again, へた?
 
yeah
to both of those
 
@RedwolfPrograms mum, educational youtube is leaking again
 
lol. bruh
 
@user No, but all but one safety check was unintentionally triggered
 
4:28 PM
that's concerning
 
I hate that people went almost directly to using fission for blowing up stuff instead of just making energy
 
Even more so for fusion
Good luck using that for energy production :p
 
 
(Where the energy produced isn't concentrated in one area where the enemy happens to be)
 
There was an article about scientists cracking cold fusion a couple years ago, but it turned out to be a hoax :/
 
4:32 PM
Did you know that a type of warhead has been proposed that's specifically designed to produce large amounts of nuclear fallout?
 
TIHI
 
the cobalt salt shit?
 
Yep
A salted bomb is a nuclear weapon designed to function as a radiological weapon, producing enhanced quantities of radioactive fallout, rendering a large area uninhabitable. The term is derived both from the means of their manufacture, which involves the incorporation of additional elements to a standard atomic weapon, and from the expression "to salt the earth", meaning to render an area uninhabitable for generations. The idea originated with Hungarian-American physicist Leo Szilard, in February 1950. His intent was not to propose that such a weapon be built, but to show that nuclear weap...
 
@hyper-neutrino That's basically what 05AB1E does as well
 
found a suboptimal case: Try it Online!
for `withree` the compressor gives `λ»ree` even though `wi∧ḭ` is shorter
 
4:34 PM
CMC: build a nuclear warhead
 
@N3buchadnezzar are the materials provided?
 
it was just a matter of finding the right input; it's fairly obvious greedy match won't work for this, you need DP
i'll implement one and PR it into vyxal
 
Isnt using a library better for this?
 
in Jelly, Jan 21 '16 at 2:38, by Dennis
My plans are to add several more string terminators. The current ideas are one for Bubblegum (base96, gzip, lzma), one for packed strings, one that interprets the string as a number and one that can be used to push arrays of small integers. Giving each a dedicated start and end terminator seems wasteful, given that this can save at most one byte in an entire program.
In related news, I'm working on a new compression method that never increases the size of printable ASCII. This would take `”` as a delimiter (so it can be omitted) and ultimately replace `»`.
 
@N3buchadnezzar That won't necessarily mesh well with how many characters are available to Vyxal
 
4:37 PM
adding more string terminators would break things wouldn't it?
because base 250 relies on there being 250 characters available
or was this before the codepage list + comrpessed number literals
 
« is still unimplemented
 
right but that's only one more
 
> one that can be used to push arrays of small integers.
 
Thoughts and prayers for Dennis =)
 
i feel like being able to include non-ascii characters in normal strings is... not excessively useful, but maybe i'm wrong
can you run the corpus to look for where non-ascii characters were used in normal strings?
 
4:38 PM
That suggests it was before the string terminators were actually introduced
 
oh, i see
 
@hyper-neutrino Yeah, I'll have a look
 
@hyper-neutrino some use for quiney challenges
 
it should match “[^”»‘’«]*[^”»‘’« -~][^”»‘’«]*(”|$)
not sure though, not particularly good at regex
also if you wanted to be really tryhard with this compression thing, the dictionary should be built into a trie so you can get like logN lookup or whatever
 
wait so what;s the deal with the [^”»‘’« -~]
 
4:43 PM
find a non-ascii character
 
oh
of course the hyphen is for a range
 
Hmm, that regex doesn't work
 
I know for a fact that at least one of my answers has a normal string with a non-ascii character in it
 
4:45 PM
idea: use a flag :p
 
No flags, lets not be like some other language :p
-F <- fizzbuzz, -H <- hello world :p
 
I'm an idiot
 
I already have a good amount of flags in yuno but they're pretty much all modifying I/O formatting and implicit behavior, not doing pre/post-processing :p
 
I had escape = True, so it escaped the regex before matching it :P
 
4:46 PM
154 answers have non-ascii characters in regular strings
 
oh that's a lot more than i thought lol
are the matches actually legit tho
 
Looks like there are some false positives, but mostly, yes
 
ah, okay
 
how many are on quine or self-referential tagged challenges
 
It;s not that good :P
 
4:50 PM
:P
 
It just gets the answer id and the body. I might be able to modify the query to grab the parent question and it's tags, but that seems like overkill :P
 
Wouldnt you be able to see if it is a quine from the body?
 
from the answer body?
 
Sort of
Strings with v in, followed by v are often payload capable Jelly quines
 
4:56 PM
all i can say is this is a quine without v because i am dumb
 

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