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12:00 PM
@N3buchadnezzar not even for variables or defined functions?
then maybe you'd be interested in Keg
 
@N3buchadnezzar oh all golfing languages will make you cry
because they are always confusing to learn coming from a normal language
 
@N3buchadnezzar Keg won't make you cry from difficulty to learn...it'll make you cry because it's an absolute trainwreck
 
it's just that vyxal doesn't do its best to torture you
 
Just replace the current bit with:
dummy.style.fontSize = '14px'
dummy.style.lineHeight = '22.4px'
And add `.CodeMirror{font-size:14px !important}` to the css somewhere.
 
My dream would be to teach a first semester course in CS, and just pretend it is natural to use Jelly as a first languge
 
12:02 PM
Vyxal is easy to learn but hard to master. Jelly is hard to learn and hard to master :P
 
Keg is easy to learn and you don't use it, so you never master it ;p
 
If the first year students of mine survives Jelly, I am sure they can pick up Python on their own for the latter courses.
 
even once you think you're comfortable with chaining there's still so many underdocumented quirks to deal with
and you're not really comfortable with chaining until you've subjected yourself to separator practice
 
Any language that requires a loop to print Hello, world! is annoying.
 
@Ausername next problem: now the cursor is too big
you change one thing, another thing breaks
 
12:07 PM
@lyxal Ugh.
 
my exact reaction
 
@Ausername Any language that does not have a builtin for Hello, world! is annoying
 
@N3buchadnezzar Jelly doesn't have any Hello World built-ins
Vyxal does though.
 
95% of all languages, you mean?
kH
 
Just another reason™ why you should switch to Vyxal™
 
12:09 PM
Maybe we should just stick to 16px - it is looking a little small...
 
It should be the same size as the input
the input is not 16px
neither is the output
 
Fair point
 
14px looks just fine on my end
 
@lyxal It is
They both are
 
thayin't
@Ausername 15px
that's my best and final
 
12:14 PM
CMC write a naive primality checker (no builtins) which checks if a small number (n<10^6) is prime.
 
@N3buchadnezzar Vyxal, KL2=
 
that sounds builtin-y to me
 
that is, does the length of the divisors of the input equal 2
 
@N3buchadnezzar What builtins are banned?
 
12:16 PM
Say a direct primality check, and divisor generator
(% is fine)
 
Ǐ₃
 
what an epic gamer
 
Poggers right
 
@N3buchadnezzar what about prime factorisation built-ins?
 
Also the other one can be KḢ₃
is cool
 
12:19 PM
@N3buchadnezzar Jelly, 3 bytes
Returns 0 for composite, non-zero for prime
 
APL: 2=0+.=⍳|⊢
 
CMC: Given a black box function (natural number I/O), output the smallest fixed point of the function. You may assume it always has at least one
 
@lyxal What is this?
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing jelly find first could do this right
find first where apply = self
 
12:23 PM
@Ausername oh please oh frick not again
 
how do you pass a black box function as an argument in jelly?
 
Should be 4 bytes in Jelly
 
yea makes sense
is that using the 'invariant under' thing or whatever
 
@Ausername sigh why can't vectorisation and generators just play nice together!?
2
 
@rak1507 Either a string of code, or by referencing a link (e.g. Ç)
 
12:25 PM
@lyxal Because they're evil.
If I had a dollar for every time this happened...
'night.
 
Hey room!
I think I've solved my app's resistance to golfing.

Could anyone take a look through and try uploading an answer? I just want a bit of an end-to-end test of my importer.
https://codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/23556/16824
 
12:45 PM
OwO what's this? And, more importantly, why?
 
1:06 PM
Announcement: Four weeks left of the APL problem solving competition!
3
 
1:31 PM
Haha jokes on you I can't enter xd lol /s :p
 
@N3buchadnezzar learn how to make an operating system
@lyxal when did the online interpreter get syntax highlighting?
 
@PyGamer0 about 40 minutes ago
But it's been in the works for about a week or two
A username made it
 
what does it highlight?
 
Syntax
 
like what tokens?
 
1:38 PM
Numbers, strings, comments, digraphs, structures and lists
 
@PyGamer0 and this is why kids, make your own online interpreter
 
Also I see you saw my epic slide video
 
yes
 
Did you see the one with audio?
Wow yt shorts doesn't one box
 
@lyxal just saw it before u commented
 
1:41 PM
@PyGamer0 me and the boys be sliding like
 
@lyxal and the boys? are your brothers?
 
@PyGamer0 no
Because I don't have any siblings kekw
 
Here's a good question. Does anyone know if there's a "good" time to make a challenge live? Or any time to avoid for that matter?
Do they, for instance, go better deployed on a working day, or just before the weekend...
 
@AJFaraday a few hours from now usually is best
 
@AJFaraday you might wanna check recent chat activity times for that: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/240/the-nineteenth-byte
 
1:44 PM
That seems to be when most people are awake
 
That's really helpful! Although it's missing that one last component...
 
honestly though i just post whenever
people are always racing to answer new questions anyway
and Arnauld is a code golf AI who eats js code for breakfast
so you'll definitely have at least one answer
 
The activity chart really supports my suspicion that Friday afternoon would be a good time to kick off.
 
hi has joined this room
 
@lyxal It did for me the other day.
 
1:46 PM
Trouble is the last part is just to display the results. Probably bad form to start a challenge and then let people see how they're doing a day or so later
 
@lyxal woo voice reveal
 
@lyxal your YT vid probably wasn't one-boxed because of the URL format.
 
@AJFaraday In short, no
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Fair answer. Kinda want to throw the challenge up now anyway, but I think I just need to be an adult and wait until i can give the last bit a little time.
 
Basically, it takes long enough for challenges to gain traction, and we're all far too addicted to the site for post time to significantly impact votes/views :P
Although the day might matter. Weekends are known to be less active than weekdays, mainly because a lot of people goof off here at work
7
 
1:56 PM
Well that supports Monday being better than the weekend, anyway :p
Interesting charts, but the main conclusion appears to be ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Well, here's a last try while I'm around.
I'm planning to post this on main pretty soon. Could anyone give it a try to see if it's clear? I'd particularly like a live test of my importer (there's a couple of questions on meta I'm importing from) https://codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/23556/16824
🥺 Pleeeeeease 🥺
Okay, that's probably too much. I'll stop pestering people now.
 
2:14 PM
@AJFaraday Looks impressive but it's far to involved for me, sorry.
*too
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Are you spying on me?
 
dw aaron this is a general codegolf thing
 
NGL I've thought of asking similar questions to this one
 
2:32 PM
@Shaggy It would help if you just copy one of the existing answers and go through the "How to enter your client in the competition" steps, to be honest. Just to check that I've given the right instructions to get answers in to my importer
 
@AJFaraday Done
 
@AaronMiller Of course not, Aaron Miller who lives at 7331 Hacker Street and who likes puppies and Mariah Carey songs :P
 
@Shaggy Thank you! it looks like the import worked, which is great news. Just checking the app now
@Shaggy Well, the troll answer is up there, compeltely hands-off from me. That's good news. Baby steps isn't, tho. Hmmm
 
Difference in how I formatted the headers, maybe?
 
Actually, I stand corrected. I think one just got imported a minute sooner. That's pretty much the best I could hope for from that test :)
@Shaggy Anything unclear about those instructions?
 
2:47 PM
@AJFaraday Straightforward enough. Does your importer allow for text between the heading and the code block? Also, seeing as it seems to be handling both heading formats correctly, you could probably remove the point about using =s so people can just use whatever they normally would.
 
automatically importing and running node.js code with a filter as secure as s.contains('eval') might not be a great idea
 
@thedefault. I've given that quite a lot of thought. It's being run through this class to prevent anything with a few forbidden terms being evaluated at all github.com/AJFaraday/Thud/blob/main/src/lib/client_validator.js
 
I was in Texas for like a week and now I'm going to New Mexico lol
 
@AJFaraday yes, but you can still use, for example, JSFuck (or just new Function, which can be accessed in a billion different ways)
 
Sounds like something I should guard against. How would you kick it off?
Ugh. just googled that. Looks awful
 
2:53 PM
it's much simpler to state your require code style rather than validating it programatically
 
I'm also doing that.
 
yeah that's the easiest way
 
The guard is against things like throwing in a setTimeout to run code at the wrong time, or requiring a lib to start messing with my file system
@Shaggy Sorry, just caught up with your message. It's detecting a <h1> for the title and a <pre> for the code. So it would be fine to use the '#' style markdown, too. Text between them should be fine.
 
I should make a challenge based around parsing html with regex. That feels like a good idea.
 
@AaronMiller I imagine you're probably familiar with this post? stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/…
 
3:07 PM
4413
A: RegEx match open tags except XHTML self-contained tags

bobinceYou can't parse [X]HTML with regex. Because HTML can't be parsed by regex. Regex is not a tool that can be used to correctly parse HTML. As I have answered in HTML-and-regex questions here so many times before, the use of regex will not allow you to consume HTML. Regular expressions are a tool th...

 
@AJFaraday maybe...
 
It might get closed as a troll question, is all :p
 
Yeah, I just mentioned it as a joke :p
 
Sorry, I should have realised
 
3:27 PM
A regex for validating an email
 
I think we have that
 
Its just really hard getting right, why are emojis allowed in emails?
 
Probably because they're essentially in the same character set as accented vowels.
 
I should dare someone at work to change their work email to include that crying smiley emoji
 
3:50 PM
hmm would that work
you'd need to request that specifically
 
4:07 PM
is there a way to put a newline in a spoiler blockquote
 
<br> or <p>?
 
Have you tried using a whitespace char?
 
i'll try <br/>, thanks
it works
 
HTML go brrrrrr
 
4:24 PM
@UnrelatedString Doesn't it work without the /? I thought br closed itself
 
Is there a simple way of getting a list of all the elements less than X in Jelly? Say I got some sorted list and I want to get every x in the list such that x < y for some y
 
isn't the / because it closes itself
i haven't done html in like eight years
 
I was thinking about creating a code golf about armor penetration by tank shells, and I found one of the best URLs i've ever seen: longrods.ch
 
the / is optional
 
4:33 PM
optional for br that is
 
i use it to indicate it's self closing for style but i think the browser might just remove them when it renders, not sure
 
is it not optional for input and hr too?
@lyxal how did you even implement generators, anyway
 
I would assume so, since it's more of an indicator for characters than a modifier that you have to close
 
@hyper-neutrino oh not this again

Generators

Jun 19 at 12:41, 30 minutes total – 135 messages, 3 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 5 secs ago by pxeger

 
4:41 PM
Could one perhaps say...
That this generated a lengthy discussion?
I know where the door is, i'll see myself out.
 
hmmm
idk i haven't encountered too many problems with my sequence class but i might eventually
tbh idrc if the stdout print atoms don't work nicely cuz i never use them in jelly and suspect yuno will hardly need them either
might make a foreach digraph quick to resolve things like this
 
my language has no I/O other than purely functional, and the CLI happens to provide a YAML interface for it but otherwise you need to wrap it in a Python script
 
4:59 PM
@hyper-neutrino Waves a bit too eagerly
 
@hyper-neutrino ...what would the difference be between that and map
 
@UnrelatedString doesn't lazy-eval on infinite sequences
this fixes lyxal's problem with ƛ , ;
cc @lyxal if you still have this problem, ^ might be a solution?
 
what is it
 
5:05 PM
wait could you just like try taking the last element
or reversing it
 
also why do you have the register nilad at the end
 
or does that automatically fail for infinite stuff
 
@hyper-neutrino I was testing out stuff :p I tried ways to avoid doing ÆḞ over and over again :p
 
but you dson't use the register anywhere else
also fun fact about jelly's looping quicks they are designed specifically to compute the fibonacci sequence for some reason
 
I tried adding the (c) at different places but could not make it work, and forgot to remove the (R) before posting sorry.
 
5:16 PM
if you're thinking of not using ÆḞ
 
@UnrelatedString Ðḟ instead of Ƈ? :P
 
it's the inverted version
 
isn't C hook a synonym for D-bar f not the dot version?
 
Ahh, I mixed em
@UnrelatedString What does the 0 do?
 
5:30 PM
it's the right argument to the loop
which gets replaced with the old left argument
in subsequent iterations
 
Which in turns generates the fibonacci sequence
 
5:42 PM
@UnrelatedString Jelly didn't used to have a fib builtin, so Dennis implemented ¡ a general approach
 
that makes more sense now
 
I wish Codidact did an SE and showed you what got upvoted to increase your rep :/
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing What does ¡ do? I could not find it in the documentation
 
@N3buchadnezzar It's a quick, take a look there while I type a longer explanation :P
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing You could probably write something to store your rep each time you log in and compare it the next time you're upvotedd, but yeah, that's annoying
 
5:50 PM
Oh, is it just the repeat n times. It looked like a ! for a second
 
Yes, but it's slightly more complicated than "repeat link n times"
@user That's called my memory
 
A small font makes it hard to distinguish all the wæck symbols
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Unfortunately, not all of us have eidetic memories :P
 
(Actually my home country uses æøå in their alphabeth so it feels strangely familiar :P)
 
Jellyland
 
5:51 PM
For a monadic link, it's just "apply the link n times". For a dyadic link, it's essentially the same as doing Fibonacci on the arguments, but instead of + it uses the link provided
 
How would R look, if you were to write it using ¡?
 
Meaning that +¡1 (n provided on STDIN) is the nth Fibonacci number
@N3buchadnezzar ¹¡€ will convert an integer into a range
(But that might be cheating a bit)
@user I keep a Codidact tab open on my phone, and my rep doesn't refresh until I reload the page. Meaning that I can see my old and new rep very easily :P
 
Oh, that's a good idea
 
( feels like cheating yes as you could just not use ` ¡` at all then)
How do you all like Codidact? I saw they implemented a fancy scoring system =)
 
I really like the idea, and the fact that it's open source, but I wish it had more activity
They do some things more nicely than SE (privileges based on flags/suggested edits/etc. instead of rep), but the UI's still a little...weird
 
5:58 PM
@N3buchadnezzar If you allow С, then 1‘С (n on STDIN) calculates R
 
Ð must be allowed
Yeah the UI is a little off putting, but I guess they are working on it
 
Ż‘$¡ works with vanilla ¡ (again, from stdin)
 
It would be cool if more esoteric languages had a wiki of ways to do very basic things, like Haskell has the first 100 euler problems (not saying Haskell is an isoteric language by any means)
 
6:15 PM
@UnrelatedString Using Ż seems to be as cheaty as using :P
 
6:27 PM
fair enough lol
 
Yes, 3,321 people have :P
 
> Here's something I bet you haven't seen: Piet
Indeed, what is this totally new and weird language?
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing They just lost a ton of money to CGCC
 
@user nope: lim_{h->0}{I bet you $h}
 
6:33 PM
I'm going to take the absence of an amount to mean that it's a blank check and I can take as much as I want :P
 
ngl, the factorial program in FALSE actually looks fairly understandable :P
 
Also, get that cursed LaTeX/Perl/whatever monstrosity out of here
 
@N3buchadnezzar If they don;t mention ais, they haven't done enough research :P
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Indeed :p
Orca is kinda neat ngl
 
The example Orca program sounds like something I'd normally listen to :P
> I got this problem [prime checking] from the Code Golf Stack Exchange, or CGSE
*eye twitches*
 
6:46 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing they use "CGSE" continuously throughout the video
I'd recommend getting something to bite down on lol
huh, I've never heard of esoteric.codes before
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but by CC-BY-SA, don't they need to credit the challenge and answer authors?
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing it's linked in the supplementary material
actually it's not, huh
time to sue
it's probably fair use though
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Oh yeah, they really should say PPCG instead >:)
 
@N3buchadnezzar This was released around 6 weeks ago. We've had a decent uptick in new users since then, it wouldn't surprise me if we got a few new users from that
 
Nice =)
 
6:52 PM
I just realised this is the same as an article I saw posted on r/ProgrammingLanguages but in video form
I thought I was just having major déja vu lmao
 
This? It's linked in the video
 
Also, I recognised the code page shown on the screen before he even said Jelly :P
 
You know what we need takes a sip of a huge bong A hexagony programming language, but hold on. In 3d
 
what about 4d?
on a hexadecachoron
 
My excitement can only get so high
 
6:55 PM
Oh, did it overflow to bored?
 
@N3buchadnezzar I don;t know how to tell you this, but you don't sip from a bong :P
 
lol yeah
 
And some would tell you, you cant program a jelly but here we are
 
well I think you probably could, but one doesn't
 
Drinking bong water is a very good way to get sick :P
> Code Golf regulars created [TIO]
 
6:58 PM
regulars
 
I suppose technically, in that we contributed a lot of the languages. But Dennis still did like 97% of the work by himself :P
 
yes
 
But I mean Dennis by himself is like a group of Code Golf regulars
 
I guess so :þ
 
@pxeger But refers to us as CGCC in the supplementary material
 
7:01 PM
it's easier to correct mistakes like that in text that in a youtube video
 
@pxeger It looks like some are and some aren't
> On Testing Primes
Links to the various solutions:
 
OGC should be a language
Just because of the 90 degree rotation
 
> In the companion I used CGSE (“code golf stack exchange”), but someone informed me that everybody on the site uses CGCC. Apologies for the error!
Damn, PPCG might actually be fully gone as an acronym here soon :(
 
controversial opinion: CGCC > PPCG
 
CGCC > PPCG > CGSE
 
7:07 PM
I prefer PPCG the acronym, but CGCC the name
@cairdcoinheringaahing Wait, no. Everything looks to be linked (as required by CC-BY-SA) in the "other media" section
Although, I'm surprised he mentioned both CGCC and Malboge in the supplementary stuff and didn't mention Kamila's basically god-like control over the language
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing from the video it ends up being linked quite indirectly, though. Can I just leave a link to google and say all content is attributed?
 
@pxeger It might be worth leaving a comment asking for them to edit in the links into the video description
 
cba
 
It is nice to get more people to join the community though =)
 
Just flag a post here for CM attention and get them to throw legal hands :P
(don't actually do that people)
 
7:11 PM
ಠ_ಠ
 
 
I like the name Code Golf and Coding Challenges because I think it's more accurate but PPCG just sounds better to me, possibly just because it's what I've always associated this place with ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
 
nah, PPCG contains two Ps which (despite being the first letter of my name) is among my least favourite letters
 
The problem I had with PPCG as the name is that "Programming Puzzles" (and "Coding Challenges" tbh) kinda sound like we accept programming help requests (I'm puzzled by this programming)
 
7:13 PM
@hyper-neutrino I agree with that, and I only joined in February, so I've only ever known it as Code Golf and Coding Challenges
 
I'd change the site name to Code Golf and Coding Competitions if it was up to me
 
What happened with the PPCG name anyways? I was active here 5 years ago or so, and now it is changed?
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing yes
@N3buchadnezzar yes
 
@N3buchadnezzar Check out the tag
 
If we somehow can replace the G in Golf with a C we can shorten it to ⁴C
 
att
7:14 PM
CGCC has too many Cs for my liking
 
Code Colf and Coding Challenges
C*4 :P
 
@att yeah that's my issue
why not come up with some totally meaningless name like fgitw.stackexchange.com?
Kappa
 
Competitive Coding Challenge and Competition Community for Competitive Coders to Compete
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing This looks like a man with a helmet (C) holding something (G) he has snake belt (S) and 3! legs (E)
 
7:18 PM
A sideways alien :P
 
Reminds me of the snowman challenge here a few years back
183
Q: Do you want to code a snowman?

Calvin's HobbiesHere is a simple ASCII art snowman: _===_ (.,.) ( : ) ( : ) Let's make him some friends. This will be the general pattern for our ASCII art snowpeople: HHHHH HHHHH X(LNR)Y X(TTT)Y (BBB) The leading spaces and the parentheses are always the same for all snowpeople. The different letters r...

 
CCM (chat chat meta): is there / should there be a policy on pinning and unpinning announcements?
 
There isn't one, but if people feel like there should be a pinning policy, I'm not against that
 
Should the policy on pinning be pinned?
 
I reckon we should pin this message about pinning the pinning policy, to get opinions on that
7
I reckon we should pin this message about pinning this message about pinning the pinning policy, to get opinions on that
RecursionError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
 
7:33 PM
Feel free to open a meta discussion. My guess is that the policy would formally become what it currently informally is: ROs should use their best judgement about whether something should/shouldn't be pinned
I can't speak for the other ROs, but I ask myself "Do I think other TNBers would be interested in seeing this, and is it relevant for more than a day or so?"
 
my personal policy is to just let the ROs do what they want :P
 
Mine too, not that I have any other choice :P
 
for most things, unless it's quite obvious something needs to be done, or we've agreed on something, I'll try to let normal ROs handle things
 
Why am I watching a video on BrainFuck, what is wrong with me
 
Your brain is fu⊂ked
 

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