The Nineteenth Byte

dzaima

00:00

@RedwolfPrograms can't seem to repro (linux, .114, chromium). Out of curiosity, does doing for (var i = 0; i < 100; i++) eval(";".repeat(i)+"run()"); instead of the separate loop and final run still repro for you?

hyper-neutrino

00:26

@cairdcoinheringaahing well, I didn't reject it because I was waiting for OP to make the decision

since my main problem with it was potentially going against the OP's intended meanings, if they approve it, it means it doesn't go against their intended meaning :P

Redwolf Programs

00:39

@dzaima It does not

I'm not sure of the exact conditions it doesn't work under

dzaima

@RedwolfPrograms My guess would be that it's related to the new sparkplug compiler. Could try running chrome with --js-flags="--no-sparkplug" to see if that changes anything

OldSandboxPosts

01:00

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Full name quine [quine] [code-golf] [unicode]

caird coinheringaahing

@OldSandboxPosts That's been posted and should be edited down

DLosc

01:13

@JoKing Done!

New Posts

01:25

0

Q: Is IMPLY enough for this function?

Given a boolean function with inputs, check if it's possible to only use IMPLY gate to express it. There's no extra limitation on how you use this gate, and you can use each input for any amount of times. See examples below: \$\begin{matrix} \text{Expression}&&&&&\text{Solution}&\text{Your output...

code-golf

hyper-neutrino

01:45

@NewPosts found a 19 byter but i'm convinced it can be done in like half of that and i've decided to slow down on fgitwing and try to actually write good jelly answers

well, I found 13

Newly Featured Posts

03:06

18

Q: Elevator sequence

Totally not inspired by Lyxal repeatedly mentioning elevators in chat :P Challenge In short: simulate some people filling up an elevator and then leaving it. The elevator is simplified as a grid, where each person can occupy one cell of the grid. The height and width of the grid is the input para...

code-golf sequence grid

hyper-neutrino

03:26

looks like I won't be getting any sleep with all these canada day fireworks, lol. not that I actually sleep at a sane time anyway, but still :P

Underslash

04:05

@NewPosts what is the actual use of the imply function?

with every other logic gate, its pretty self-explanatory what they refer to, but imply (it seems like) maps to a <= b

Redwolf Programs

I guess it's supposed to mean "if A is true then B can be true", not sure what you'd actually use it for though (other than <=)

It is computationally complete if you have a false operator, though

AviFS

Does anyone know of any BF interpreters, hopefully hosted online, that ignore mismatched brackets?

Redwolf Programs

No, but give me about ten minutes and I can make one :p

hyper-neutrino

What is the intended behavior of that?

Razetime

the esolangs discord may have a better idea of this

hyper-neutrino

04:18

Balance them or just ignore them?

Razetime

ignore completely, probably

Redwolf Programs

I'd imagine balancing them would be more useful

AviFS

@hyper-neutrino To just ignore them

Razetime

cause matching them is most likely to cause infite loops

AviFS

@Razetime This is right

@RedwolfPrograms And this is also true. But I'm not looking for useful... I'm on CGCC :p

Redwolf Programs

04:19

Useful for golfing, I mean

Razetime

maybe it'll help with balancing one pair

hyper-neutrino

Balance would be more useful for golfing, ignoring would be more useful for polyglotting. At least IMO.

A username

Hi

Redwolf Programs

E.g., ,[-. would be more useful as ,[-.] than ,-. since the second already has a shorter way to write

att

@RedwolfPrograms A->B <-> "If A is true, then B is true"

AviFS

04:20

I'm using it for this challenge: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/216437/…

It's impossible to run a BF program backwards and have the brackets match

Razetime

@RedwolfPrograms brainfuck has the problem of not having obvious places to add brackets

Redwolf Programs

Start and end?

AviFS

[] → ][

[][] → ][][

Razetime

start and end saves like, one byte

Redwolf Programs

Better than nothing

AviFS

04:21

[[]] → ]][[

etc.

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms And I doubt there's a more effective set of rules

What if it rotated the program until it was valid :p

hyper-neutrino

ಠ_ಠ

AviFS

@hyper-neutrino True, good point. But for complicated quine-ish golfing problems, like this one, ignoring is also better

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms Actually would be kind of cool ngl

AviFS

Because you go from having infinitudes of invalid programs, to none

I realized I'm actually not sure what the best way to parse is while ignoring mismatched parenthesis/brackets

I wonder if one could make a good golfing question out of doing that

hyper-neutrino

04:25

if yuno sees a mismatched close bracket, it just matches an open bracket at the start, and if it sees an open bracket, it matches it and parses the inside

AviFS

Eg. a(be(k)(op(ur) → akur

A username

The key

hyper-neutrino

so for example, abc) because (abc) but abc(def]ghi becomes abc([def]ghi)

@Ausername you are like 3 months late

A username

Nice

@hyper-neutrino I didn;t know about that.

AviFS

I think...

You'd have to print out just the parts of the string that were within matched parentheses, and ignore the rest

Whereas a(be(k)(op(ur)) → akopur

Is that a worthwhile challenge?

hyper-neutrino

04:29

Looks like an interesting idea. I don't actually see what the formal spec is from these examples but the idea's good for sandboxing IMO.

AviFS

@hyper-neutrino a(be*(k)**(op*(*ur)*)*

Redwolf Programs

var rp = (d) => (i = d.indexOf("[]")) + 1 ? rp(d.slice(0, i) + d.slice(i + 2)) : d;
var rtv = (d) => rp(d) ? rtv(d.slice(1) + d[0]) : d;

rtv("][[][][]][")

Rotates a string of brackets until it's balanced

hyper-neutrino

lol

Redwolf Programs

Not sure whether to dislike PCRE for having recursion (which is weird and far from regexy), or JS for not having it

AviFS

@hyper-neutrino a(be(k)(op(ur)) → a(be[k][op[ur]]

Thanks, fixed

Okay, so I've replaced the matched parens with brackets

abe(k)(op(ur))

Alternatively, there it is with mismatched parens removed

So the challenge would be to output everything within correctly matched parens

In this case, everything except the be

hyper-neutrino

04:34

so what should (ab)cd) output

AviFS

ab

A username

@RedwolfPrograms Firefox is fine

AviFS

Oh, I see. Yeah, it should be greedy

hyper-neutrino

the spec looks really obvious but it also looks like there should be some edge case where it becomes ambiguous

AviFS

I don't think so if it's greedy. It could be done with a stack, for instance

hyper-neutrino

04:35

so ab)cd → cd and ab(cd → ab

AviFS

Good point

Right now, yes. But that's probably unecessary

A username

@RedwolfPrograms So is Safari

Redwolf Programs

Reverse-then-rotate-until-balanced is actually a really cool transform

AviFS

I suppose it should be changed to only be everything in parens

hyper-neutrino

oh bountying a question alerts you of answers?

Redwolf Programs

04:36

@Ausername That's good to know, didn't have info for other webkit browsers

hyper-neutrino

that kinda makes sense, but i already set my bounty for a specific answer...

AviFS

So (ab)cd) → ab & (ab(cd) → cd

Redwolf Programs

@hyper-neutrino Try setting one on HW lol

AviFS

Where I've just adding surrounding parens to make it clearer

A username

@RedwolfPrograms Safari actually ignores the blank console.log calls - it doesn't log anything for those.

Redwolf Programs

04:37

Kept thinking to myself "I don't remember writing the HW challenge" :p

hyper-neutrino

lol

Redwolf Programs

@Ausername Chrome doesn't either, at least for me.

A username

Hm

AviFS

The only question is whether to add the surrounding parens on either end implicitly or not

@RedwolfPrograms How's the interp going?

Redwolf Programs

It's not meant for I/O, it just seems to trick chrome into thinking about the order it should run things more carefully

AviFS

04:38

I'm still not even sure what the best way to parse it is

Just that a stack is one way, but it seems less than efficient

Redwolf Programs

For which one, the rotate until valid version?

A username

Also, whatever Electron uses works fine.

AviFS

O(n)

@RedwolfPrograms Just the ignore one

I'll start working on it too!

Redwolf Programs

Problem is, which ones do you ignore? For example, in a[b]c]d, do you parse that as a[b]cd or a[bc]d?

A username

@RedwolfPrograms Can you see if it does that if you're logging to a DOM element instead?

Redwolf Programs

04:40

Sure, just a sec

I can't actually get the bug to repro right now :|

Okay, it's reproing now, I'll try it with the DOM

Modifying DOM has no effect afacit

Removing the for loop and doing the iterations by hand seems to be more reliable

A username

@lyxal Can we have a 'Apply to all elements of stack' transformer?

It's always really satisfying beating Jelly.

Underslash

04:56

@Ausername good idea if not already there

A username

CMC: Understand this without a 250-year background in maths.

AviFS

@RedwolfPrograms a[b]c]d please! A la greedy

PyGamer0

CMC: Given an array of integers, check if it is sorted

Redwolf Programs

@AviFS I think you left a ] in by mistake

AviFS

Haha, true

a[b]cd

Redwolf Programs

05:00

@PyGamer0 x=>x.some((n,i)=>i&n-x[i-1]<0) should be a valid JS solution

hyper-neutrino

@PyGamer0 ∧/⍳⍤≢=⍋

Redwolf Programs

@AviFS How about a[b[c]d?

PyGamer0

@hyper-neutrino which lang is that? how does it work?

hyper-neutrino

∧/⍳⍤≢=⍋
∧/       Result of reducing AND over
     =     if left and right are equal for
  ⍳⍤≢        :
  ⍳            positive integers up to
    ≢          length
      ⍋      : grade up

it's APL

wait i'm dumb

⍳⍤≢≡⍋

PyGamer0

can do you it in your language? ;p

yuno

hyper-neutrino

05:04

i don't have a sort built-in, actually :P

Redwolf Programs

Ash had a one byte built-in for this lol, I think it was k

A username

@PyGamer0 s=

Redwolf Programs

It'd return -1 for min to max, 0 for unsorted, and 1 for max to min

Only problem is it'd return 0 for all identical, so there was a second that was only 0 (unsorted) or 1 (sorted)

Ash had questionable built-ins

AviFS

@RedwolfPrograms ab[c]d please!

It should make them as small as possible!

hyper-neutrino

@hyper-neutrino 3-train of ⍳⍤≢, ≡, and ⍋ which applied monadically as (⍳⍤≢ ≡ ⍋) ⍵ is (⍳⍤≢ ⍵) ≡ (⍋ ⍵) which checks if range(len(⍵)) is congruent to gradeup(⍵)

Redwolf Programs

05:06

Sounds good. Unfortunately it's getting kind of late here so I'll have to finish it tomorrow o/

AviFS

I also think a stack is a good way to think about it. Open brackets push onto the stack, and closing brackets pop off the stack

hyper-neutrino

yuno has no slice, reduce, or sort, lol

it is still extremely unstable and i am still in the "spam implementing built-ins" phase

right now i am working in implementing tail recursion so it doesn't get annoying later

AviFS

And whatever comes off is what it gets matched with!

I think I just finished a prepocessor in python

But I have to go too so I'll send it tomorrow

But it just loops through doing the stack thing, and so it's able to figure out which the matched ones are. When it finds a match, it just adds the indices to another list

Then you just remove all the brackets, and put the ones in the list back in

(I replaced the brackets with '-', put the brackets that belonged back, and then deleted the '-'. Otherwise the indices will get screwed up if you delete the brackets without a placeholder. But it's a lame way to do it. Sure there's better.)

Anyway, gtg now, but thanks everyone!!

@RedwolfPrograms ⍤/ redwolf

PyGamer0

@PyGamer0 51AC8: ī≡S=

> no usually code is written with Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V

for me it is y and p

hyper-neutrino

interesting; what keyboard layout do you use?

PyGamer0

05:20

@hyper-neutrino standard qwerty

hyper-neutrino

and you have ctrl-y bound to copy and ctrl-p to paste?

PyGamer0

@hyper-neutrino it is done automatically

by vim

hyper-neutrino

oh vim

yeah idk vim keybinds :p

att

y for yank

PyGamer0

p for paste

CMQ: Any (neo)vimmers? or emacs users?

hyper-neutrino

05:31

huh. implementing tail recursion for yuno was not too annoying which is nice. which is slightly surprising given that python doesn't even have tail recursion but also not really surprising

PyGamer0

@hyper-neutrino what is tail recursion?

hyper-neutrino

@PyGamer0 do you know how stack frames work

like, the function call stack

PyGamer0

yss

hyper-neutrino

basically, if the last statement in a function is return f(...), instead of creating a new stack frame and returning to this one to return, you can just replace the current stack frame with that of the function you intend to call

and that way you can recurse as many times as you want without actually increasing your stack space and thus avoid stack overflow

PyGamer0

oh so i need not visit SO

hyper-neutrino

05:42

lol

(on the off chance you weren't joking, i mean stack-overflow exceptions/errors / segfaulting)

PyGamer0

yes i know

hyper-neutrino

optimizing via replacing the stack frame is one way of doing it if you have direct access to memory or are like compiling or something

since python doesn't have built-in tail-call optimization, you can still simulate it with the trampoline construct, which is another common way of doing TCO, which is what i do for yuno

my TCO actually ends up being a bit stronger than jelly's, I believe

l4m2

Is there a tag meaning that only finite but more than one cases are considered? Only one case considered is treated [kolmogorov-complexity]

hyper-neutrino

oh, so like given an input, produce a certain output per input, but there are finitely many inputs even in theory?

i don't recall there being one like that and didn't see any that seemed like what you want in the top few pages

PyGamer0

05:58

what is kolmogorov-complexity

hyper-neutrino

shortest code to produce a constant output: kolmogorov-complexity

most often an ascii-art challenge

PyGamer0

@hyper-neutrino how do you make the tag

hyper-neutrino

[tag:tagname] for main site tags, [meta-tag:tagname] for meta tags

PyGamer0

ok

hyper-neutrino

it doesn't work in the sandbox because the sandbox is not attached to any site

PyGamer0

06:06

@hyper-neutrino oh ok

what does ^ do

hyper-neutrino

it runs a loop that navigates to sandbox and clicks "leave" repeatedly, basically constantly leaving and rejoining the room

PyGamer0

oh

i mistakly pressed enter

hyper-neutrino

nice

PyGamer0

it just looks like it refreshs the page

hyper-neutrino

navigating might cause your console to stop executing the code

lyxal

06:12

The one moment there's even a slight scare COVID might reach where I am, everyone panic buys toilet paper again

Ffs Straya. I thought we were better than this

hyper-neutrino

bruh

PyGamer0

@lyxal xD

@lyxal did you do a voice reveal?

lyxal

@PyGamer0 epic elevator moment ftw

PyGamer0

@lyxal nah that is not your voice

hyper-neutrino

what

PyGamer0

06:18

it doesnt sound like him it sounds like the elevator is saying it

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino where I am there's been 0 covid cases throughout this whole time. Yet now, when covid starts spreading roughly a few hundred kilometres down south (with those areas being placed on lock down), everyone panics

hyper-neutrino

._.

lyxal

@PyGamer0 uh, it is

PyGamer0

@lyxal bruhhh

hyper-neutrino

meanwhile people here are still ignoring restrictions despite our region having the highest provincial case-per-day rate, even beating toronto, which has a much higher population and density and used to be the main hotspot

PyGamer0

06:20

@hyper-neutrino here 75% wear mask

out of that 25 % wear it wrong

lyxal

@PyGamer0 it's truly lyxirl

And that's the only voice clip you're getting too

PyGamer0

CMC: If your language supports functions, print 0..input using recursion. Ex: 2 -> 0, 1, 2

hyper-neutrino

f=lambda x:x and f(x-1)+[x]or[0] in python

or, as an expression, (lambda f:lambda x:f(f,x))(lambda f,x:x and f(f,x-1)+[x]or[0]) using my standard recursion combinator

although (lambda f:f(f))(lambda f:lambda x:x and f(f)(x-1)+[x]or[0]) is 3 bytes golfier it seems

PyGamer0

@hyper-neutrino Attempt This Online!

hyper-neutrino

404

PyGamer0

06:29

nice

lyxal

@PyGamer0 Vyxal, 5 bytes

λ[,‹x

hyper-neutrino

f=lambda x,a=[]:x and f(x-1,[x]+a)or[0]+a for tail recursive although that doesn't actually do anything in python

and also idk if it'd get optimized with and or rather than if else

PyGamer0

@lyxal that is in the wrong order

hyper-neutrino

’ß;Ɗ0¹? in Jelly

PyGamer0

CMC: Given a string turn all letter in ascii range to their capitalized version

hyper-neutrino

06:36

Œu in jelly

A in yuno

lyxal

@PyGamer0 λ[‹x, then

@hyper-neutrino but does that do only the ascii range?

PyGamer0

what on earth

hyper-neutrino

@lyxal nope

thought that was a minimum not a strict exact requirement

@PyGamer0 what do we do with letters not in ASCII range

PyGamer0

CMC: Flatten the input (which is a 2d matrix). Ex: [[1,2],[3,4]] -> [1,2,3,4]

@hyper-neutrino nothing

hyper-neutrino

@PyGamer0 F in Jelly and yuno

PyGamer0

06:45

@hyper-neutrino suprisingly īF in 51AC8

hyper-neutrino

Øa,ØA¤y in Jelly then

Razetime

@PyGamer0 ngn/k, 24 bytes: {$[y-x;x,o[x+1;y];y]}[0]

hyper-neutrino

just substitute lowercase for uppercase

Adám

@PyGamer0 APL: ,

Razetime

@PyGamer0 K: ,/

Adám

06:50

@PyGamer0 Extended Dyalog APL: ⌈@{⍵∊⎕C⎕A} Try it online!

PyGamer0

i have wondered why is atom's main theme called one dark/light

why isnt there a two or three

Adám

@PyGamer0 APL: {×⍵:⍵,⍨∇⍵-1⋄⍵} Try it online!

hyper-neutrino

@Adám does that read as "if sign(⍵), then append ⍵ to this function called on ⍵-1, otherwise, return ⍵"?

Adám

It does.

hyper-neutrino

cool :)

Adám

06:57

Here's (longer version) that's interesting because it has no explicit conditionals: {⍵,⍨∇⍣(1<⍵)⊢⍵-1}

Iterative version: {⍵,⍨⊃⍵-1}⍣{0∊⍺}

hyper-neutrino

07:31

@PyGamer0 ‘ɫ;)¹? in yuno

pretty much the same as in jelly

on second thought, i decided to restructure the default shortcut behavior, so it can just be ‘ɫ;)?

PyGamer0

08:32

^ how would you describe that image

math

small

PyGamer0

and..

math

calculatory?

square

blue, green, yellow

tiled

lyxal

@PyGamer0 Fibonacci

math

no its 1/2+1/4+1/8...

right?

lyxal

08:37

Not necessarily

Back in my days of primary school, I'm pretty sure that they showed us that you could make a Fibonacci spiral out of squares of length 1, 2, 3, 5 etc or something

math

yes

lyxal

That's what the image is

math

golden ratio and things

PyGamer0

@lyxal well the ratios are wrong in my image

^ Idont know what i am making now

PyGamer0

08:54

CMC: If your language supports it; generate a 5x5 .png file with random colors

Codidact Posts

09:09

New Posts - Challenges - Code Golf: A number adder, not a death adder

posted on July 02, 2021 by AndrewTheCodegolfer

Create a program P1 which takes as input a base 10 number N1 (the numbers for the variables are important). Given N1, P1 will print a program P2. P2 will take as input a base 10 number N2 and ou...

Adám

09:19

@PyGamer0 Do we have to save the file, or just create its bytes?

Adám

09:30

@PyGamer0 Dyalog APL/W: 63 bytes: (⍎⎕A⎕WC'BitMap'('CBits'(?5 5⍴8*8))).MakePNG⎕NAPPEND⎕A⎕NCREATE 0 creates a file called ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ:

Razetime

what's W

Adám

@Razetime What?

Razetime

Dyalog APL/W

Adám

For Windows. This is how it calls itself:

Razetime

overy neat

I had to run as admin

A username

09:37

@PyGamer0 Recursive

Adám

@Razetime Why?

Razetime

some file access error

idk which dir dyalog starts in

Adám

Right. You can ]cd \tmp or something before executing the above.

A username

35

Q: Connect 4: Spot the Fake!

The bank has been broken into, and all the local mafia thugs have an unusual alibi: they were at home playing Connect 4! In order to assist with the investigation, you are asked to write a program to validate all the Connect 4 boards that have been seized in order to check that the positions are...

code-golf board-game

The best context for a question

math

math has removed xnor from the list of this room's owners.

A username

09:47

Uh, no.

Feeds posts RO stuff.

math

uh no

dang it

at least i got lyxal

A username

Wait what?

math

wait i'll bookmark it

math rickrolles lyxal

2 hours ago, 6 minutes total – 6 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 7 secs ago by math

A username

Oh I saw that

New Posts

0

Q: more than 1 hash values pointing out to the same pattern

I have built a hashing function that hashes string and its substring but while testing it I got more than 1 hash value for the same pattern and I am not able to identify the reason, can someone help me out in finding the problem static class Hash { int N = (int) (1e6 + 6); int mod = (int) (1e9 +...

java hashing

PyGamer0

09:58

@math YOU GOT ME

math

@NewPosts i posted a really bad welcome message

@math i can't do it... who can actually?

A username

@NewPosts Just VTC if you can.

It might take a while though - I wish we had 3-vote close./

PyGamer0

10:35

is there a LWSS gun in GoL

A username

probably

Although it's most likely just several gliders smashing into each other...

PyGamer0

11:18

@Ausername you have some link or something?

A username

Google it

lyxal

@math room owners and mods

@math well played

N3buchadnezzar

How hard is it learning a second esoteric language after the first?

PyGamer0

not hard probably

Unrelated String

11:34

it really depends

i feel like if you pick two at random, if you filter out all the bf reskins, they are likely to have much less in common than a pair of practical languages

lyxal

Compare the following two examples: Befunge > Jelly and Jelly > Befunge

Going from mastering Jelly to mastering befunge shouldn't be too hard - if jelly is your first esolang, then you already have a good understanding of how esolangs work and how to think in a different way to more practical languages

But going the other way is definitely harder

That'd be going from stack manipulation and the benefit of being able to explicitly manage program flow (in a quite unrestricted way - especially if you use the 98 variant) to having to think about how you arrange your programs so that they chain in the right way

So unrelated string is right that it depends on the two languages you choose

If they use the same paradigm, then it should be relatively easy given the second language doesn't have any majorly different quirks

But if the two are completely different, and one is more complex than the other, then the learning curve may be harder

And in some cases, knowledge of the first esolang could even hinder learning of the second

A username

Like tacit is sometimes like stack-based, and sometimes really not.

lyxal

^ this

the default.

in jelly you just copy-paste a few characters from the atoms and quicks wiki pages and rearrange them until they work, while in befunge you don't even have proper arrays

lyxal

11:50

Shush

Don't give away the big secret

If everyone finds out that jelly is just keyboard mashing with a certain keyboard layout, no one will believe that effort went into them :p

N3buchadnezzar

@lyxal I am trying to learn Jelly now just for fun, the way the program floats is definitively my biggest issues so far

lyxal

@N3buchadnezzar that was the same for me

N3buchadnezzar

It is just fun trying to learn something hard

lyxal

heh, it took me 5 attempts at trying to learn jelly from scratch for the concept of the chain rules and quicks to click

needless to say, jelly is fun

N3buchadnezzar

I know like 3 or 4 proper languages, 2 by heart and still. This language just wrecks me.

@lyxal How would you compare it to Vyxal :P

A username

11:58

@lyxal Simply styling the wrapper element should work, I just hardcoded the font size for the dummy resizer (big brain) so it doesn't resize the textarea properly. What font size do you want?

lyxal

@N3buchadnezzar obviously, vyxal is way more fun ;p

Razetime

@N3buchadnezzar vyxal is made with a smooth learning curve in mind

lyxal

@Ausername probably 13 or 14

Razetime

and hence using and learning it is faster and fun in a different way

A username

I'll go with 14.

N3buchadnezzar

11:59

@Razetime I'll stay away then, If a language is not making me cry, it is not a language for me.

math rickrolles lyxal

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