[grid-deduction] Puzzle Solving

bobble

1:08 AM

@Sciborg, I'm back

Sciborg

Hello :D

How was your bike ride?

bobble

I was greeted (when I got back from biking) with an email saying there was an update on reach-school application, so I logged into the portal, navigated through several links, and finally found a standard rejection letter. :(

Sciborg

Aww. That sucks :(

bobble

bike ride was good at least

puzzles?

Sciborg

i got stuck trying to figure out how to re-deduce, my initial global deduction was wrong but i'm not sure what to do instead

since now U, V, P and T all make sense in those spots

bobble

1:14 AM

my mom has declared that reach school is a bad school and is making hot chocolate

Sciborg

this is good

they didn't deserve Bobble anyway

bobble

well, let's do some local deductions

how about the top group of 3 dots?

can you place a piece there?

Sciborg

has to be either N or... oh, just N?

well, P too

bobble

you don't have N

oh you do

drat

Sciborg

N or P, i think

bobble

1:16 AM

well, can you place an island?

Sciborg

i guess yeah

bobble

this will be useful

Sciborg

some oceans too

i think i can do some ocean logic now

bobble

how many oceans?

Sciborg

right? because the oceans have to connect

bobble

1:19 AM

yes

Sciborg

so now i know the T has to go there

bobble

yay!

Sciborg

and now i can do More Things :D

bobble

I shall let you fly for a bit

Sciborg

the reach school didn't deserve to have a Bobblecrown, your bobblies are guiding you elsewhere

bobble

1:21 AM

they are also stupid expensive

Sciborg

Sometimes it's just not meant to be, and that's okay :)

you'll get into tons of other great ones

bobble

I applied to... 9? I think?

3-ish that are reach, 2-ish that are safety, 4-ish that are target

but there's reach and there's REACH

and I didn't get into REACH

Sciborg

That's okay! you probably weren't expecting to anyway, so no big - i applied to an Ivy League school when i was applying just for the hell of it, even though i had no chance, i just wanted to take the shot.

bobble

<3

Sciborg

you'll be fine <3

my REACH school was MIT, in my case

bobble

1:26 AM

you agree that there's reach and there's REACH?

Sciborg

For sure, there's "reach but i could have a shot" and then there's REACH

bobble

anyways, you chugging along on the Statue Park?

Sciborg

yup :)

bobble

(also, only on Puzzling: a grid-deduction solving conversation is punctuated with emotional support)

Sciborg

We've turned every chatroom into a supportive therapy place and that's valid

i have a friend that rants to me almost every day on Discord in my DMs because he can't afford therapy and just needs somebody to talk to, and at the end he's always like "hey you don't have to read any of that, but i just needed to know there was someone on the other end" and i relate to that so much

feels like everyone in Generation Z needs therapy :p

bobble

1:31 AM

I have therapy-induced panic attacks, so getting help the "normal" way would be tricky

Sciborg

oh :(

well hey, i'm usually around for midnight SE/Discord rants if you want some unlicensed therapy!

disclaimer: mick is not a doctor

bobble

do NOT, we repeat do NOT, take any pills prescribed by your friendly cyborg not-a-doctor. We are not responsible for any damages or injuries arising from following their advice

Sciborg

legal note: mick is unauthorized to prescribe medical treatment, such as "blanket burritos" and "hot chocolate breaks"

bobble

will Triumphant Solve Picture be coming soon?

Sciborg

Almost :D

drat, now i have Problems

oh, there we go, i solved the Problems

bobble

1:39 AM

saying Problems exist is the #1 way to figure out their solution

Sciborg

A spot had to be either X or U, and i placed the U and realized it caused Problems, so therefore it had to be the X

...but now i have nowhere to put the U..??

bobble

beak-extraction squad at the ready

Sciborg

i feel like i screwed up somewhere again

where the heck does the U go??

bobble

You did not screw up

Sciborg

wait... does it go somewhere that there isn't dots???

bobble

1:42 AM

do you want me to tell you where it goes, or do you want to look more?

Sciborg

does it go on the dots somewhere, or is it outside the dots?

bobble

count the shapes left and count the groups of dots

is it possible for there to be a non-dot shape?

Sciborg

yes?

bobble

there are 8 pentos to use and you have 8 groups of dots

therefore, all shapes use dots

Sciborg

oh

but the U doesn't fit anywhere??

bobble

1:44 AM

it does

Sciborg

OH WAIT I SEE IT

that took me an embarrassingly long time

bobble

you're just not used to pento reasoning yet

Sciborg

crap, now what

bobble

what pentos do you have left?

Sciborg

i have a lot, because of my two pending pieces

but i can at least do some oceans

because i'm not sure what the top and bottom right pieces are, so i can't really eliminate

bobble

1:48 AM

nudge time?

Sciborg

i guess so yeah

bobble

can you make any deductions with the two dots below the T?

Sciborg

has to either be P or N, just like the top thingy

ohhh, so the bottom right can't be P

bobble

there you go

also wait can it be both P or N?

Sciborg

so now i can place L

because P and N must be the left ones

bobble

1:50 AM

35 secs ago, by bobble

also wait can it be both P or N?

Sciborg

no, it must be P, because otherwise Problems

and Problems bad

ta-daaa

yay!

Yay :D

i'm gonna take a quick break to check something, my game updated on Steam and i need to see if it fixed a bug we were having. then i'll do #23

bobble

1:53 AM

got it

Sciborg

it's the game-breaking bug i posted about on Gaming SE yesterday :p

hoping that today's patch will fix

bobble

from what I've read on Gaming.SE meta, they don't like tags in titles unless you can work it into a regular-flowing sentence - so your initial title was bad, and the current title flows better

Sciborg

That was my bad, never posted on there before

game is still broken so oh well

back to puzzles

bobble

this puzzle has an important deduction related to the piece bank

have to leave for dinner now, will ping when I get back?

Sciborg

will do, i'll work on the puzzle :)

Sciborg

2:59 AM

#23 solved :)

bobble

3:10 AM

@Sciborg, I'm back

yay on 23!

Sciborg

Almost done with 24 too, i'm on a roll :D

How was dinner?

bobble

dinner was leftovers

Sciborg

#24

bobble

I played Dutiful Child bobble and did the dishes afterwards

yay on #24!

Sciborg

wait, did i screw up, the oceans don't connect

bobble

3:13 AM

yep, somewhere went wrong

Sciborg

drat

which step did i do wrong?

bobble

why is bottom-middle pento an X instead of an F?

Sciborg

because the X wouldn't go anywhere else without blocking oceans

bobble

picture 5 (first on second row) is the first one that boxes off an area of oceans

oh wait that wasn't a placed pento

Sciborg

that was a "does the S go here or here" potential pento picture

bottom caused Problems so it went on the top

bobble

3:16 AM

why can't it go in the other two quadrents?

Sciborg

wouldn't fit

oh, wait

crap

but then where does the X go?

bobble

picture 7 is the first that has blocked oceans

Sciborg

i don't have the energy to start over from pic 4... argh

is pic 4 correct at least?

bobble

yes

pic 7 is wrong

Sciborg

i'll go back to pic 4 and leave it for when i have energy

bobble

3:18 AM

looks like that's the first that's wrong

so just back up to 6 and you're good

Sciborg

no, no, i didn't have the basis to place the Z, it could have gone in more places

bobble

no it couldn't

oh wait it could

Sciborg

but you said it could have gone in the other two quadrants

it could, there wouldn't be Problems

bobble

only the top two don't cause Problems

Sciborg

yeah. i'll have to just start from pic 4 i guess

i was so proud and then i looked again like "wait"

bobble

3:21 AM

try doing as many oceans as possible? looks like there are some oceans in 4 that aren't fully extended

Sciborg

tired 'borg sounds

bobble

do you want to try a different puzzle?

Sciborg

no, brain has committed, i have to finish this one or it'll bother me :p

extending oceans

bobble

oh wait i see something

oh wait i don't

drat

Sciborg

oceans?

bobble

3:26 AM

can bottom-row dot be extended?

Sciborg

yes

bobble

by the way, the very helpful hint for this puzzle:

> Place the I and X first. There are only a couple places left for the Z; think
about the row of black circles on the left to eliminate one of them.

I think you already did that

Sciborg

yeah

but i'll re-do it correctly

can't go top left, causes Problems since row of black circles would help block

bobble

which row?

Sciborg

no matter if it's L or Y, it would block oceans if that was where Z went

the row on the left

bobble

3:29 AM

couldn't it be Y downwards?

Sciborg

....

bobble

wait then I think the bottom-left quadrant can't be any of the pieces left

Sciborg

oh

i was about to be like "shit"

so it has to face upwards?

bobble

hmm yeah the left-row can't go down yeah

Sciborg

yeah. because if it faces down, no valid piece can be placed under it

will put an ocean there

so then Z goes top right?

bobble

3:32 AM

yes

Sciborg

so now the issue is F

has to go top left right?

bobble

show picture?

I'm working off your pictures here

Sciborg

the F can't go on the bottom

bobble

why can't it be on bottom-right?

Sciborg

wouldn't it cause Ocean Problems?

bobble

3:34 AM

... no?

how problems?

Sciborg

oh

okay, so it can go in either of those two places

bobble

how about the W?

Sciborg

bottom left must be U, because W and F don't fit there and that's the only pieces left

bobble

yay!

Sciborg

so now i have to figure out if W or F causes Problems where i put them

bobble

3:37 AM

picture?

Sciborg

well it's like they have to go here

but i don't know which

bobble

wait why did you ocean around the rows/cols

they have to be L or Y

you don't have tetros, you have pentos

Sciborg

WHAT, oh, god, i'm tired

completely forgot, hang on

oh, so now i can place Y and L

there

bobble

isn't there ocean trapped upper-left?

Sciborg

wait

no, but then the F blocks ocean there too??

i'm so confused

bobble

3:42 AM

there's an orientation of the F you haven't considered

(the F is the most complicated pento to get a hang of, it has so many different orientations & reflections)

Sciborg

bold of you to assume i can spatially flip that monstrosity

bobble

here, bobble's Guide to the F Pentomino:

make a straight line of 3 blocks

add a block coming off one end to make a tetro L

add a block to the other side's middle

in other words, merge a T and L along the 3-block line

and ta-da, that's an F

Sciborg

gahhh

bobble

ta-da!

Sciborg

i hate F pieces so much

literally had to take it in MS Paint and flip and rotate it around

bobble

3:45 AM

#27 and #28 don't have Fs

Sciborg

phew

bobble

but #25 and #26 do

Sciborg

sounds like i need to not do those

bobble

but are you really going to skip puzzles?

also all of the full-pentos have Fs

Sciborg

angry mick sounds

bobble

3:47 AM

also, there are so many hexomino pieces that they ran out of letters, so some are numbered

they have so many orientations

Sciborg

i don't know if i have the willpower to keep rotating F pieces today

bobble

we can skip to 27

Sciborg

this one looks wild

bobble

it's literally one dot moved one space away from being perfectly symmetric

Sciborg

what do i even do :p

where does the I go

bobble

3:54 AM

I think some counting is in order

which pieces can use 3 dots?

you there?

Sciborg

there is struggling happening

bobble

which pieces can use 3 dots?

Sciborg

L can if it goes on the bottom

um, W

bobble

hmm, but oceans

Sciborg

oh

W

bobble

3:59 AM

you should be able to do some oceans to connect top & bottom along the aisle

Sciborg

i should?

bobble

well for example can R3C3 be island?

Sciborg

yes

wait, no

i see

bobble

the "middle" diagonal line in the aisle has to be oceans

Sciborg

like that?

bobble

4:01 AM

how about along the bottom? and the top?

to connect aisle to triangles

Sciborg

brain is trying

bobble

another way to think of ocean connectivity: you can't have a line of islands (diagonally or side-by-side) connecting two spots on the edge

Sciborg

yeah

bobble

anyways, once you got all the oceans here go back to considering which pieces can cover 3 dots

Sciborg

i think i am rapidly becoming too sleepy

bobble

4:05 AM

aww

Sciborg

mind if we break?

bobble

sure, you can break

bobble

4:34 PM

@Sciborg, I'll be here most of today if you want to come back to the Statue Parks

Sciborg

6:07 PM

Good morning :) i'll take a bit to have breakfast, shower and run some errands, but then I should have the energy to rotate F pieces

bobble

resists urge to make a profanity joke

Sciborg

A profanity joke? how dare you

bobble

but I didn't make a profanity joke

I simply pointed out that there was one to be made

Sciborg

of course :p

bobble

I'm catching up on the week's news. Spoiler alert: it's tiring

Sciborg

6:11 PM

Yeah, I've just turned the news off at this point. Makes me too depressed

Sciborg

7:30 PM

Aight, I managed to run my errands despite my car having a frozen windshield, I'm ready to solve some Statue Parks

#27 time

bobble

Time to rotate them Fs

Sciborg

Do you want me to go back and do the F ones first and come back?

bobble

Oh, we were skipping them?

Sciborg

I had skipped #25 and #26 yesterday, but I can do them today

Just have to set them up, one sec

bobble

You have to do them eventually, better to do them when you're not dead tired

Sciborg

7:32 PM

I got some sleep and had a nice latte so I feel much more awake

Those Fs are cryin' for a rotatin'

bobble

and reflecting

Sciborg

on my life choices

bobble

I cannot see any reason to doubt the path which led you to solve Statue Parks with a watchful bobbling crown

Sciborg

This is true

Okay, set up #25 - doing some starting moves

I think this one has an interesting middle ocean deduction, because that middle ocean must connect

So I can't block it off with pieces

bobble

yeah, you have to squeeze a buncha pieces into there as well

Sciborg

7:38 PM

hmm

bobble

you should be able to identify which pieces go in the center

Sciborg

yeah. i'm just pondering which ones

because i'm not convinced of how all these dots connect, it feels like there are a couple ways

bobble

IT'S ALL CONNECTED

Sciborg

take the pill, Neo

is it N, Z, W and F?

bobble

those are not the correct pieces

(some are correct. not all)

Sciborg

7:44 PM

gahh

i don't know how to tell

bobble

would you like a nudge on the wrong one?

Sciborg

can you explain more how you figure it out, because i don't get the shape-cramming logic

bobble

well each piece has to use two dots

and most will have to sneak outside

Sciborg

ohh, wait, yeah. they can't go across because it would block the middle ocean

i don't know why i was considering that as a possibility

so they HAVE to have that corner-y shape

bobble

because pentos are hard?

Sciborg

7:47 PM

pentos are hard

well, these specific pentos, i guess

so it can't be Z

bobble

could the Z sneak out?

Sciborg

oh wait, yeah, it can

N can sneak out too, in some of the spots

W can sneak out

F would have to go inwards i think

so not F?

bobble

you can have one that goes inwards

Sciborg

then which one is wrong?

bobble

can you place any islands? that must exist to connect the given dots

Sciborg

7:51 PM

well, yeah

bobble

do that

Sciborg

those islands

bobble

now you should be able to see which of your pieces is wrong

Sciborg

oh, N

bobble

(have to run out quick to walk doggo - see if you can figure out the correct 4

Sciborg

7:52 PM

N is the wrong one, it touches other islands

so W, F, Z and something else i guess

bobble

didja figure out the "something else"?

you've determined that F must go inwards, so you need a piece to escape

Sciborg

I, U, V and T don't work, so no idea

bobble

one of those works

Sciborg

????

bobble

it only works for one of the areas, but it works

Sciborg

7:57 PM

oh, wait, U works in one spot, i see it

bobble

oh wait it works for two areas

Sciborg

W, F, Z and U, got it

U only works in one spot right?

never mind, i see the second spot

no, no, but then it causes Problems, so just the one

i'm placing it

bobble

progress!

Sciborg

in the other spot it blocks oceans

so now i know W, F and Z go in the remaining spots

W could go in all three right now, so that's not the key piece

Transcript for