English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2012-07-31 (page 4 of 5)

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cornbread ninja

4:04 PM

@KitFox ;)

cornbread ninja

4:19 PM

come on down to my boat, baby

user19161

4:31 PM

My rep is now 21340, which is 01234 when rearranged, fascinating.

cornbread ninja

@JasperLoy 0_0

user19161

@cornbreadninja >_>

@JasperLoy I can fix that for you.

cornbread ninja

You gonna knock him upside the head?

Or tickle his bottom.

Up or down, it’s still fixed.

user19161

4:33 PM

What if I have no bottom?

Try a personals ad?

cornbread ninja

I'm the hiphopapotamus, my lyrics are bottomless

time for luncheon.

user19161

My eyes hurt from the misspelling.

user19161

I have only seen hippopotamuses.

funnyflash.com/img/funnies/submissions/126/noodles.swf

RegDwight АΑA

4:40 PM

Gah, the front page is full of closed questions again.

user19161

@MetaEd The song is quite well done.

RegDwight АΑA

Needs cleaned.

user19161

Needs washed construction eh?

RegDwight АΑA

No, needs cleaned construction.

0

Q: What do "drop off' and "swing back" mean in this context?

This is a follow-up to my previous question (thanks to those who answered me). Dialog in a restaurant between a waitress and Don Draper (Mad Men) She: I'm not your waitress, but are you all set here? He: Excuse me? She: You've been sitting alone a long time. Can I get you a menu? He: I don't ...

meaning-in-context

ELL.

In fact, the first one has a dedicated entry in several dictionaries.

user19161

Looking at the primary votes, I think the mods will be S and M.

RegDwight АΑA

4:43 PM

What, no Evan?

user19161

@RegDwightАΑA He's Almighty.

@JasperLoy Meanies.

@RegDwightАΑA Done.

@RegDwightАΑA It’s because ESL&U is a magnet for subclued pre-learners.

user19161

0

Q: Word for more than several, but less than many

What word or sequence of words can I use if I have more than several, but less than many? E.g. if I have 10–15 of something, it may not be many (depending on context), but it's too many to be several. What word or phrase can I use? There are many studies which show... (not true, in my context I...

word-choice adjectives

user19161

I vote this as not a real question, because "several" and "many" are already not well-defined, and this is worse.

@JasperLoy Not constructive.

user19161

4:47 PM

@tchrist Sure, just choose whichever you like.

5:07 PM

Hello again.

The Dutch Pirate Party is set to win one or two seats.

I guess they are less popular than in Germany, possibly because my country is already a bit ahead in freedom of information.

It will be good nonetheless if they get seats.

They will also grow in the next European elections, I think.

Matt Эллен

I'm not sure how well they'll do here. Calling yourself a pirate is not a way to be taken seriously

A small party winning a seat in a district winner-takes-all system?

In which constituency would they stand a chance to win a seat?

Matt Эллен

The Netherlands, apparently :)

Constituency, that's the word, of course.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus uh, I don't know. none of them really.

5:14 PM

Exactly.

Matt Эллен

somewhere in London, maybe

Here they need only 0.7 % of the votes to win a seat.

Matt Эллен

oh, well council elections are different. but I don't think they'll get any seats in parliament

@MattЭллен Piracy used for anything else than violations of the Law of the Sea is an evil lie promulgated by the RIAA oligarchs. Copyright violation is not piracy, damn it.

True; but it has become what we call a Geuzennaam.

"Gueux" are beggars in French, I believe.

Philip II is said to have disparaged the Dutch resistance thus: "ah, pas de problème, ils ne sont que des gueux", or something.

From that moment on, they started calling themselves geux, bastardized as geuzen in Dutch.

Oh, it was not Philip II himself, but a counsellor of his Regent in Brussels, who called them that.

He actually used the word for the group of 250 nobles who came to put forward a formal Request to the Regent, Margaret, Duchess of Parma.

5:36 PM

@Cerberus ...wonders why Phillip II would have said that in French instead of in Castilian...

Yeah I was thinking he might have been discussing the resistance with his council in Brussels or something, who wouldn't speak Spanish.

But it was the Italian Margaret.

This reports that: Ya me ha servido por lo menos para saber qué idiomas hablaba Felipe II (castellano y portugués, dejando aparte el latín) y cuál era la lengua materna de Carlos V (no era el alemán o el flamenco, como yo hubiera supuesto, sino el francés).

So perhaps he had a traducer.

So Charles was raised in French, and Philip in Spanish and Portuguese?

Just so.

I thought he also spoke Dutch, as he grew up in Ghent?

Matt Эллен

5:46 PM

lols

Of course the elite spoke mostly French in Flanders, but still.

¿Yo que sé? I’d have to read the cited text myself to see how it played out.

So would I, but it is too much trouble...

Philip didn't invent the Geuzen.

@MattЭллен Hmm...is that a real screen shot of the swimmers?

@MattЭллен Wow, just wow.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus yes

5:50 PM

Nice.

@Cerberus Actually, it doesn’t quite say that. It just says Phillip spoke Spanish and Portuguese (not counting Latin), and that Charles’s mother tongue was French rather than German or Flemish as he would have supposed.

Yes, I added the question marks because I wasn't sure how to interpret that.

I now have this strange picture of a bunch of vans (van Eyck, van der Goes, van der Weyden) cavorting about in a wild flamenco dance to El Amor Brujo.

cornbread ninja

@MattЭллен :d

Matt Эллен

@cornbreadninja Licking ones nose is a useful talent

cornbread ninja

5:58 PM

@MattЭллен quite!

I've had no complaints.

makes notes

cornbread ninja

:D

@MattЭллен That was in the qualifying round for your Olympic pr0n: gotta start somewhere.

Matt Эллен

teim to cook de bolognese

cornbread ninja

my bolognese has a first name

Matt Эллен

6:02 PM

what is it?

cornbread ninja

O-S-C-A-R (not really)

Matt Эллен

that's a long name

the punctuation makes it look fancy

cornbread ninja

@MattЭллен - Congratulations.

Now you have 100 points.

@MattЭллен He is teasing you with an American commercial for hot dogs.

user19161

6:05 PM

@cornbreadninja That looks like Kevin from The Wonder Years.

@Robusto tube steaks ain’t zactly rolled bologna

Ah, so they aren't.

I was thinking Oscar Mayer hot dogs. I never eat bologna anyway.

cornbread ninja

hot dogs, Armour hot dogs

what kind of kids eat Armour hot dogs?

@Robusto no one should eat either :S

@JasperLoy please research that and let us know your findings. :)

user19161

Wow, I did not know they have cartoons in 1965.

6:17 PM

MODERATOR ELECTION. MESSAGE TO ALL USERS. We need your help to keep changing our community for the better. Please, vote MATT. I LIKE MATTCARE. And, most important, converge your vote on KitFox. Do not lose your vote among candidates who have no chance of being elected. Otherwise, there is the serious danger that is elected simchona.

I WANT A COMMUNITY WELL GOVERNED, BUT - AT SAME TIME - REALLY TOLLERANT IN THE REAL SPIRIT OF ELU. VOTE FOR MATT, VOTE FOR KITFOX

4

@JasperLoy Not sure you're all that familiar with how the time arrow works. They had cartoons back in 1965. But no longer.

Matt Эллен

@Carlo_R. Thanks!

@Carlo_R. @MattЭллен is not TOLLERANT. He told me so himself.

user19161

@Robusto True dat.

Matt Эллен

lol

user19161

6:18 PM

@Carlo_R. You misspelled "tolerant".

@JasperLoy How I correct that

LL

user19161

@Carlo_R. It's OK, does not matter. Just letting you know.

@Carlo_R. Have you looked at the scores? I think the simchona ship has sailed already. Or at least it's casting off its bow lines and making ready to get under way.

@JasperLoy Thank you

user19161

@Carlo_R. The l and ll is a tricky issue. For example, in AmE the past tense of dial is spelled dialed but in BrE it is spelled dialled.

cornbread ninja

6:21 PM

your squares are touching.

And in BrE, look is spelled butcher's.

cornbread ninja

@Robusto lol.

user19161

@cornbreadninja I was just saying there is resemblance. It can't be him though because he was not even born then I think.

@Carlo_R. Thank you for your support.

15

A: Do Brits understand rhyming slang or are they sometimes puzzled by it too?

I say it very much depends what Britons you are talking about. It is a dialectical style, found in a few places, but the most famous and that which tends to travel internationally is the East London, Cockney Rhyming Slang. Now, most Londoners know a fair bit of it, growing up hearing it. But i...

6:24 PM

Yes, I would like @Matt to be elected-and-more-tolerant.

user19161

Anyway @carlo whoever gets elected, don't let it affect how you feel. Just try to be polite in your comments and also ignore the remarks that appear rude to you. Then everything will be fine.

user19161

@Robusto This is beyond my understanding.

That's why I provided a link.

@Robusto Bery interesting.

user19161

@Robusto Geezis, who would have guessed.

user19161

6:28 PM

@Gigili You misspelled Barrie.

Geezis would not need to guess.

user19161

Barrie is feeling barrie high; Purdy is feeling purdy high.

What would you do if your friends received spam messages from your Hotmail account?

I'm trying to trouble-shoot my cousin's issue.

I told him to change his Hotmail pass word and run a virus scanner on his PC.

@Cerberus I would pretend not to speak English and ignore them.

user19161

@Cerberus Could be sent from another account but disguised as sent from your account. Check your outbox. Are they there?

6:29 PM

@Robusto But what if you are in urgent need of viagra and free VIP pass words for webcam sites?

@JasperLoy It is not my account.

user19161

@Cerberus I get viagra emails once a week.

But I can tell him to check whether he sees any weird messages in his outbox, yes.

user19161

@Cerberus If the message is in the alleged sender's outbox, then deep shit. If not, then phew!

user19161

In any case, best to change all passwords and see if problem persists.

user19161

If problem persists, contact email provider for further action. QED.

6:31 PM

A good spammer would delete those messages, obviously.

But it is worth a look.

user19161

@Cerberus No, a good spammer would leave them there to scare the shit out of you.

It is also possible that some rogue program on his Iphone is passing his contacts through to a spam bot.

@Cerberus I'd create a Gmail account instead of that crappy service.

@JasperLoy What use would that be?

user19161

@Cerberus Because that means your password has been discovered. Otherwise like I said it could just be a disguised address.

6:33 PM

@JasperLoy You misspelled Gary.

@Gigili Yeah, he should migrate to Gmail—but that's not what he will want to hear at this moment. Just as you don't want to hear that you should migrate to Android.

@JasperLoy What use is it to scare the owner of the account?

None.

user19161

@Gigili Yes, my favourite chess player is Gary Kasparov. Note that Kasparov rhymes with my awesome name for suitable pronunciations.

On the contrary, you would want to remain undetected.

user19161

@cerb Have you been applying security updates? I wonder if that is the problem.

cornbread ninja

@JasperLoy that Oscar Mayer kid is what, four at the most?

okay, yeah, fred savage is a 1976 vintage.

6:37 PM

@JasperLoy Again, this is not my problem, but my cousin's.

user19161

@cornbreadninja I only watched a few episodes. One day I might watch all of them. My favourite American drama, really.

I need no stinkin' updates.

@JasperLoy You have an awesome name that is suitable for pronouns? And it rhymes with Kasparov?

looks like you can be arrested in the UK for sending an "offensive" message online. careful what you say, people, lest the thought police descend.

If you live on an upper floor they may actually ascend. You never know.

cornbread ninja

6:38 PM

@JasperLoy I wish I had been a little older when it was on.

@Jez Yeah, change that already!

don't blame me. I suspect this piece of shit law is thanks to David Blunkett.

user19161

@cornbreadninja I watched them on youtube. I think the DVD is being sold on Amazon or something.

It seems as though every larger country has its crazy laws. The little ones are a bit better off.

The Low Countries, Scandinavia, central Europe (like Poland and the Czech Republic).

Although Poland does have some crazy laws. And so does the Czech Republic.

@Cerberus By that logic, Monaco must be a legal paradise.

6:41 PM

Monaco is in many ways part of evil France...

Oh, Austria and Switzerland have some good qualities too, though their Nazy sympathies are still a bit of a problem. It's probably a smallish minority, but still.

Which reminds me: Evian spelled backwards is naive.

@Robusto LOL. never realized that.

personally, i buy Evian if i need a bottle to hold my tap water.

user19161

@Jez If I need to get mineral water, I go for Ice Mountain.

Why not buy a cheaper bottle?

user19161

Why not buy juice instead and use the bottle afterwards?

Matt Эллен

6:46 PM

@Cerberus I'll do my best

Good.

user19161

Barrie just asked a question about the subjunctive.

Matt Эллен

user image

user19161

@MattЭллен Is that even allowed?

Matt Эллен

maybe

7:00 PM

@MattЭллен Is that your new bike?

Matt Эллен

I wish :D

user19161

I still can't ride a bike.

user19161

But I prefer walking to riding so it's OK.

Matt Эллен

you could ride that one though, it's got 3 wheels, so it's easy to keep upright

user19161

Ah I can ride tricycles I guess.

7:03 PM

> One last note: I trust you all realize that I would not choose to address any of you by the saluation, "Hey," with which change.org automatically opens my emails to you. Please don't take it amiss! This is one Americanism of which I, despite being as American as they come, do not approve. — Jeffrey Hamburger

user19161

@Cerberus Where does that come from?

From a petition I am subscribed to.

@JasperLoy Not a constructive question: it can have no “correct” answer.

user19161

Do emails begin with hey? I don't think so. Hi yes, hey no.

change.org/petitions/…

@JasperLoy Yes, they do. What else do you think he meant?

Stiftung Preussischer Kulturbesitz, Berlin: Reconsider the plan to empty the Gemäldegalerie of Old Masters

Matt Эллен

7:12 PM

user image

user19161

@MattЭллен Looks like Arnold.

Matt Эллен

congrats!

user19161

Oh, did I just get whooshed?

Matt Эллен

It's Arnie's most famous line ever

"I'll be back"

user19161

I'll be back. QED.

7:14 PM

@tchrist 1 - It's totally not-constructive. 2 - But it's from the authority of Barrie 3 - I voted to close as non-constructive, but 4 - I wish there was a place for ranting. Here. The blog?

Just put the petal to the meddle and go.

user19161

@Mitch Ranting? Just close it! What's left to rant?

@JasperLoy I read that as 'I'll be back'. Meaning, you're not going to be back in a moment?

@JasperLoy 3 - I voted to close already.

I very much like Carlo's current avatar...it gives a nice shading of purple to mauve to pastel as it fades away...then -pow- back to bright purple when he's back. What's it's RGB?

user19161

@Mitch Yes, I noticed as well. Mine does not have such a pronounced effect.

@JasperLoy Arnold is as Austrian as ...oh..Bach was from Eisenach, not particularly southern.

user19161

7:20 PM

@Mitch I remember his other favourite line is astalavista or whatever.

#6709F3

gimp color picker?

user19161

Just type "steelblue" for mine.

@Mitch Colorzilla. It's not just for Firefox anymore.

nice. subtle.

user19161

7:26 PM

GIMP has it, yes.

@Robusto same to you!

oh..I thought you were epitheting me.

Bastard.

When I epithet you, you won't have to wonder.

writes software quickly and names it Bastard

@Mitch I, too, voted to close as Not Constructive. Whether this runs contrary to my having supplied something of an answer, or whether that answer is itself more of a rant than was the original question, I must leave to your voting.

In the Soviet Union... no that's how it actually works.

7:28 PM

Barrie does seem to resent the way Americans speak, doesn’t he? No good can come of that.

@tchrist I immediately thought out a full rant answer. but thought 'nah, nobody cares.'

@tchrist I explored that territory in my comment.

@tchrist Does he? As evidenced where?

@tchrist No good for the Americans.

the brunt of the England's language jokes.

@Cerberus In his question.

7:29 PM

You should hear what the French say about the French Canadians.

@tchrist Is it on the first page?

user19161

@Robusto Only you can comment like that and get away with it.

@Mitch You mean les Canardiens?

@Cerberus by everything he says in his question.

zactehmeh.

user19161

Yo @sonic!

Sonic The Hedgehog

7:31 PM

@Jasper Hey bro.

always a nice welcome. :)

But I can't stay long... Mom is expecting me to study all summer.

@JasperLoy Who says I get away with it? I pay a price for my sharpened tongue, don't think I don't. It's like when Jean asks Wolverine in X-Men if it hurts when the knives come out of his hands: he gives her a dark look and says, "Every time."

@Cerberus Aye, the one using the remarkably heavy-handed so wedded to.

user19161

@SonicTheHedgehog OK. Enjoy kimchi!

I see it.

> Similarly, you may as well ask “why” French has switched the protasis of a conditional to imperfect indicative when the other Romance tongues retain the original imperfect subjunctive for the same.

What do you mean by this, @tchrist?

In Latin, the indicative is used for normal protases.

@Cerberus I was referring to modern Romance, including Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, Occitan, Galician, and Italian. And doubtless many others. Haven't checked Romanian.

RegDwight АΑA

7:35 PM

Wow, Evan fixed his nomination. I have to support him now.

God, yes! The very thing that has been vexing me these past weeks: "Why, oh why has French switched the protasis of a conditional to imperfect indicative when the other Romance tongues retain the original imperfect subjunctive for the same?"

@tchrist What is "the original imperfect subjunctive"?

Reconstructed proto-Romance had it, which is why it is in all the children.

Are you talking about Gallo-Romance?

I really should check Old French.

RegDwight АΑA

7:37 PM

✓ Old French

So you are talking about a sentence like if Paris is a city, then it can be conquered?

I only know one langue d’oïl though.

That has a subjunctive in Italian?

Isn't it a little early in the afternoon for an old French whine?

2

No it does not.

7:38 PM

Then I remain as puzzled as before.

Are you talking about a certain kind of protasis?

@tchrist I just read your answer. Every sentence, I wanted to say 'Yeah, why?' in the voice of an impertinent 15 year old. But the annoyed 17 year old in my head didn't answer, he was watching youtube. and the 35 year old (no, not yet my age) language enthusiast started looking at wikipedia but eventually wound up reading about the Road of Life during the siege of Leningrad during WWII. That is, if we had a rant channel on this forum thingy, I'd upvote yours.

When the apadosis in the conditional, a tense that did not occur in Latin.

tensely hopes for some slack on his use of the word “tense”

If I were you, I would go home.

@tchrist I don't understand this sentence.

@tchrist Okay, so you mean a hypothetical/irreal protasis?

In French, the first part is imperfect indicative. In the others named, it’s imperfect subjunctive. In English, too.

@tchrist Same to you, buddy! ...oh...right...an example.

7:40 PM

Yes.

All right, well, I can answer that if you like.

RegDwight АΑA

@Robusto be carafeul what you say.

It is actually a very interesting question.

baits his breath

It is also relevant to Germanic, I believe.

7:41 PM

German does something a bit different there, yes.

@RegDwightАΑA Now you're a joke decanter.

I don't know Dutch.

In Latin, both the subjunctive and the indicative could be used, with little, if any, change in meaning.

@tchrist whispers Psst! Nobody does. It's a made-up language.

I think the indicative is less formal, but you can still find it in abundance in classical literature.

Then there is Greek to consider.

7:43 PM

6 hours ago, by Robusto

ρ, ρ, ρ your boat!

I believe one would normally use the aorist with the particle an, but I think the imperfect is also possible, at least in the apodosis.

I think you’re right on the Greek, but I aver no remnant knowledge of such.

So the boundary between simple past and conditional hypothesis has been weak and fuzzy for millennia.

@tchrist I know the aorist is used for it—I'm just not sure what the default is in classical Attic, except that it is either the aorist or the imperfect.

I only recall about the aorist, because it stands out.

Similarly, in Dutch, one can say als ik rijk zou zijn... ("if I should be rich"), or als ik rijk was ("if I was rich", simple past). Both forms are very common, and there is hardly any difference in meaning or register. In the apodosis, the simple past is much less common than zou, though.

This is all about hypothetical conditionals.

So I would expect both the imperfect subjunctive and the indicative to have been used up until each Romance language made its final choice.

Quite a logical development.

Actually, continuing our earlier discussion of fusse in French, didn't French use both forms up until the 19th century?

If you could fusse an an imperfect subjunctive, which *fuissem*wasn't in Latin, of course.

7:54 PM

Si j'étais plus intelligent, je ne dirais rien. VERSUS Si (yo) fuese más listo, no diría nada. Si (jo) fos més intel·ligent, no diria res. Se fossi più intelligente, direi nulla. Se (eu) fose máis intelixente, non diría nada. Se (eu) fosse mais inteligente, não diria nada.

That's why I said I should check Old French.

RegDwight АΑA

@Robusto that's what you say. But some Méliès disagree, Georges in particular.

@tchrist Nice comparison. You should add si sapientior essem/eram, nihil dicerem.

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