The Awkward Silence

Yeah, we broke some records too. But it's not sure whether that's because we're testing way more now or the government is really messing up handling the second wave (most things are still open instead of locked down rn)

CaldeiraG

7:14 AM

problem is, everyone seems to do the same: not closing anything, to avoid full quarantine

financial depression was big enough on the first one

Tinkeringbell

Yeah well, I'm somehow guessing not locking down is only making stuff worse.

Oh well. If consuming drinks at a bar or going to a gym really is that much more important, we should probably just sacrifice ourselves /s

Ael

@Tinkeringbell If it's like in France, I would say probably both. Like, in France, pubs are fully close in some big cities but people who could work remotely aren't doing it because the government said nothing about that.

CaldeiraG

@Tinkeringbell XD

Ael

But IMO, the worst is for university. They don't even give the students option to work remotely (you know, they could just film the course and whoever wants to watch it from home could). So university really big clusters and we are doing absolutely nothing about that

Tinkeringbell

Yeah. Over here contact tracing has proven that it was younger people and students who first started spreading again (often after returning from vacations where they weren't as vigilant), and then spread it to elder people through visits.

But we're not allowed to talk about it because that would be 'blaming the youth', not just communicating results of preliminary research into the spread of COVID through Dutch society :/

CaldeiraG

7:25 AM

well, here half of the students are home and the others in the classroom but students (that are at home) say they are being prejudiced

because it's more likely the teacher will answer questions from the classroom and not from the video call

i've seen a reddit post complaining

Ael

@CaldeiraG Don't they switch from one week to another? My cousin is a university teacher and she does that. So no one is really prejudiced because everyone gets the same chance at asking a question

CaldeiraG

@Ael afaik, yes

Ael

@Tinkeringbell The irony... Students spreading the virus is much more the fault of whoever is in charge than the fault of the students. Even just going to the student cafeteria is probably a "covid nightmare". But sure, let's pretend that it's the student fault for just going to school and eating...

CaldeiraG

translate.google.pt/…

you can read the reddit post

it's translated so it could have a few misses

Tinkeringbell

@Ael Oh, these threw parties. Over here they're allowed to do work remotely! I understand the difference in France though, my previous remark was meant to be solely applicable to the Netherlands ^.^

Ael

7:33 AM

@CaldeiraG Ouch, that sounds like a mess and I only just start reading it! I understand why the students are unhappy with this system, I would be too! (and, again, I have just read the beginning of it)

CaldeiraG

yeah

Ael

@Tinkeringbell Ah yes, if they work remotely but threw parties, that's different. Here they aren't allowed to throw parties anymore (plus, bars are closed, so that fix that). But just thinking about the cafeteria makes me shiver. And the way they treat people being in contact with someone who has the covid? Like one of my sister classmates catch it and only four of this classmate got tested and pre-emptively put in isolation for it afterward. Like 4, in a class of ~30!

But people didn't want to miss class and they weren't close to this person with covid and didn't eat with her, so that was fine...

CaldeiraG

:\

Ael

@Tink Why the "what" instead of "how"? (I haven't read the question yet, this just struck me as odd)

Tinkeringbell

@Ael Wordplay on the question ;)

I thought it was clever but if it's too obscure I should clarify the title :)

To be fair, parties weren't allowed here either. And there's also a few examples of entire housing complexes going into 'lockdown' because one of them tested positive, all voluntarily.

Not all students are bad, but it sucks there's bad apples and the contact tracing often goes back to them :|

Ael

7:42 AM

@Tinkeringbell Ah, I see the wordplay now. But I'm not convinced having this has the main title is a good idea ^^

@Tinkeringbell The contact tracing in France is a joke, so...

Tinkeringbell

@Ael Yeah, it's becoming a joke here too, as people will have to go do it themselves because the instances that are supposed to do it are getting 'too busy' with just testing.

Ael

@Tinkeringbell Here it's more of a voluntary thing. Like the classmate of my sister asked her: "do you want me to say that I was in contact with you?" and my sister said "no", and that was the end of it...

lila

hi

Ael

@lila Hello :)

Tinkeringbell

@Ael O.o Oh that sucks! I've heard some stories about people not telling when they went to parties because they didn't want others to get into trouble/need isolation/testing... But I was hoping those were one-offs, not standard behavior!

Ael

7:48 AM

@Tinkeringbell Well, in this case, it was not a party. Just regular students going to class. So, really, none of the other students (except for 4 of them) are considered having been in contact with their classmate... (you know, even though they are not doing class remotely)

Tinkeringbell

Okay that makes a little sense then. But just a little, like so many things these days ;)

CaldeiraG

i mean, in my country we also have the contact tracing app but if you get infected it's voluntary if you wanna put the code into the app

Ael

@CaldeiraG In France, we have the contact tracing app but almost nobody downloaded it because it's a privacy issue nightmare. Like the government is geo-localizing you at all time, so... (also, your phone battery won't like it)

CaldeiraG

@Ael :o

ours is open-source atleast

but apps should use the new API provided by Google and Apple

it avoids geolocation that way

Extroverted Main Man

1

Q: What if I could prevent a conversation from turning into pure guesswork?

I've had some serious stuff to handle over the last month or so. And it sadly wasn't the stuff you could keep easily quiet. To make things worse, the main actor that created this mess has apparently a notorious reputation and there's plenty of gossip about them to keep people talking about this f...

Tinkeringbell

8:02 AM

We have one but it's basically useless. You can get a warning if you've been in the proximity of someone that later tested positive for more than 15 minutes. But unless you develop any symptoms, you can't go and get tested.

So it's just sending out alerts to make you even more anxious, and it won't help deal with asymptomatic spreaders either.

CaldeiraG

@Tinkeringbell same

a test here is 100€, if all of my family wanted to get tested it would be 400€

and you can't do it anyways since it came out negative for my dad

Ael

@CaldeiraG Are you the one who have to pay for it?

CaldeiraG

@Ael in theory yeah, but I would push to my workplace to pay for it

since it's relevant for them

my sisters and mom would probably need to pay for it

Ael

@CaldeiraG Well, that's not great. I was expecting better of Portugal. In France it's free (the state pay for it)

If it's not free, it basically mean that poor people will catch it then spread it because they have no way of knowing if they have it or not

CaldeiraG

@Ael i don't know if those 100€ is for the public health service or private, I know my dad went to one that you dont leave the car

and company paid 100€ upfront

it also was rushed (as in same day testing)

if you're a regular citizen, you stay home, contact Saude 24 (probably wait a few hours to get someone on the line) and only if you have symptoms you can get tested

if you need to pay, no clue

CaldeiraG

8:31 AM

reddit.com/r/europe/comments/j96z6r/…

Ael

9:33 AM

@Tink That's too bad you want to stay polite. I'm very good at abrutly putting an end to conversation :p (and it has the beneficial side effect that after that, people won't annoy you by trying to chitchat with you anymore :p )

Tinkeringbell

@Ael Oh, I can do that too. It's just that these are family and family friends and I think by now you know how my family deals with that: complain to mom, then have mom be angry with me... I don't want that on top of all the crap there already is, we're already fighting enough right now.

Ael

Yeah, I'm sorry for the situation you are into :/

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, so am I.

Ael

@ips Give us a cat, will you?

IPS Comment Bot

Ael

9:53 AM

In some "fun" news, I have several male coworkers who ask (in Slack) in the "general" discussion during the last 1~2 months to please, clean after yourself when you poop in the toilet... ^^

Tinkeringbell

Hahaha okay that is kinda funny :P I assume they haven't found the culprit then?

Ael

I assume as well but some careful detective work might easily allow them to discover who the culprit is :p

And now I just imagine some manager having to ask on of the people they manage to "please clean after you poop" x)

I would not want to have this conversation x)

Tinkeringbell

@Ael Heh. Trust me, there's probably worse than telling your employee to please make sure they leave the toilet behind in a reasonably clean state :P

I know we had a situation at an office once where one or two people from a different company would use 'our' toilets to poop, then don't clean either. In the end, someone from facilities put up a note that the toilet was only for employees of our company. After that, the problem moved elsewhere apparently XD

Ael

@Tinkeringbell True... Still, you might want to avoid going into details when having these kind of conversation (like, the first message was about "please, flush after you are finish" and now it's "please use the brush if anything remain")

Tinkeringbell

@Ael Yeah. Those seem like normal messages to me, but that might be because I have two brothers and a mom that keeps repeating that too. :P

Ael

10:05 AM

@Tinkeringbell Oh dear x)

Tinkeringbell

interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/26304/… < I almost wish they'd put that in an answer... Though I can't remember people reacting very well when I put them through that filter, and besides that most of them don't ask if I want to hear anything, they just start, so I'd have to that retroactively and meh....

Ael

@Tinkeringbell Though I do tend to repet the "please flush" message when I am at my parents' because my mother never flush when she pee in the middle of the night (she doesn't want to wake up my father) but then it smells awfully in the morning! (like I avoid those toilets and use the otherone instead)

IPS Comment Bot

-1 because I cannot condone advising "no longer entitled to have […] friends". IMO it’s a red flag that OP is in a toxic relationship. It’s my understanding that Alice, lacking self-esteem, will mistrust ANY and all friend that OP might have (Should OP someday come out of the closet as bi- or -homosexual, I guarantee that Alice’s mistrust will instantly extend to OP’s same-sex friends). I’ve been in such a situation, and it only improved when my SO started realising that the core of the issue was her own lack of self-esteem, not my behaviour. — breversa 2 mins ago

Matched regex(es) ["+1"]

Tinkeringbell

@Ael Ah yeah. I've had only a few times when someone did that accidentally, and it does often smell quite bad :(

Ael

Not related but I wanted to tell you something @Tink: Guess what I bought on ebay? Hint: it's pink, blue, and I love it very dearly (I'm currently kissing it, even though the one I bought hasn't arrive yet)

Tinkeringbell

10:23 AM

@Ael you found a 'new' one?! Awesome!!!

Ael

@Tinkeringbell I did! And it costed only half of what I was expected! I currently feel like a parent waiting for their kid to be born :D

Tinkeringbell

10:55 AM

Hahaha I hope it arrives soon and in good order! Half of the prices I saw back when would be a good deal, certainly!

Tinkeringbell

12:00 PM

I must admit I ordered a ... way too many ... bath bombs, bubble bars, and some shower bombs from Lush this weekend. Can't wait until those arrive either :D

Ael

@Tinkeringbell Oh, I like Lush! Though I don't have a bath, just a shower, so I don't feel tempted to buy this kind of stuff ^^ However, I would love to have some nice smelly soap (I keep waiting for someone to gift me one, but it never happened so far :'( I'll still try to ask my sister for one this year, I'm not giving up :p )

Tinkeringbell

@Ael Yeah their soaps are real nice. I got a shampoo bar and a conditioner bar last summer (together with more bath bombs) and their products are one of the few very smelly things that don't give me rashes. It may be that most of their scenting is based on more natural stuff than the perfumes in regular shop soaps?

Do people never ask you for gift ideas? I always let them know to e.g. not gift me any perfumed stuff because it usually makes me itch (getting someone bath/shower/body lotion is kind of a standard 'women' gift here)

I'm thinking of slowly switching that to 'I'd love some Lush stuff', though I know it's more expensive so I always let people know that just snacks is fine too if they're looking to gift something small/cheap.

Ael

@Tinkeringbell They do ask, but those kinds of soap don't cost much so I can only ask for it from people who don't have much gift budget (the other wouldn't want to buy it the same way I don't want to buy red pens to my cousin even though he ask for it). And yeah, gifting shower/body lotion is standard here too. I always disliked it >< (because I really don't care about shower/body lotion. I just like smelly soap that aren't in a bottle so I can sniff it all day long :p )

Tinkeringbell

@Ael Hahaha yeah a bottle doesn't really help with that, does it? Perhaps a small tip would be to tell people that 'You know it's quite expensive, but you wouldn't mind some Lush soap'. That way perhaps people with slightly larger budgets are a bit more prompted to check it out as an option?

(only if you know they have the budget for bigger things!)

Ael

@Tinkeringbell I don't really know what's in their product. I just know it's not tested on animals so I like that. Also, I think that their products are "plant-friendly", like most soap would kill a plant but Lush soap wouldn't? (I'm not sure about that though, it would probably best to double check)

@Tinkeringbell I wouldn't want to give people the impression that it's okay to buy me shampoo or similar stuff (I still haven't started the one that someone gift me last year because I have 2 other bottles to finish first x) ). But yeah, I could try some careful wording to achieve my goal (though it's probably best if I only ask my sisters for this. They know me and they know that the only reason I would want soap is because I do love sniffing good smellying stuff :p )

Tinkeringbell

12:17 PM

@Ael I'm not sure about the plant-friendly either. But I know there are soaps like that, because we once did this archaeology thing where there weren't really any showers nearby so we had to 'wash' in a nearby lake, and we used ecover for that as it's biologically degradable and not harmful to plant or animal life.

@Ael Yeah, it definitely needs careful wording (like making sure you mention it has to be a block of soap, not a bottle) and people that know you might not need as careful explanations. I hope you get some one day :D

Ael

@Tinkeringbell I hope too ^^ Worst case scenario, I can always buy one myself but those kinds of soaps are easier to find around Christmas (there is almost always one stand with smelly nice soap in the Christmas market, though generally not from Luch), that's why I keep hoping someone will buy me one ^^

Tinkeringbell

12:40 PM

:D it's actually not that hard to find solid soap bars over here, are you aiming for a specific kind/smell or?

Ael

1:13 PM

@Tinkeringbell Yep, I want a fruit sent one (like lemon) and you won't find those at the local grocery shop (you do find solid soap but they all small very "chimical"/"non natural")

I don't know how to say it other than "they smell like soap". So I basicaly want a soap who doesn't smell like one and who smell like fruit instead ^^

Tinkeringbell

Ah yeah. Specific scented ones are indeed a bit harder to find here too. You'll end up in a generic 'natural/biological remedies' store, or Lush :)

I know the smell you're describing, I think :D

Arthur Hv

oh hello

Tinkeringbell

Hey, hi!

Arthur Hv

I remember ordering nice soaps at an online store. But if you don't like ordering its a bit more difficult

I'm not too difficult also, admittedly this look very ok gift if you want to gift me ^^

Some people are afraid to gift those because they believe it's hinting someone's hygiene is bad also

Ael

@ArthurHv When it comes to soap, I do like to be able to smell it before buying it. So shopping online wouldn't do

Arthur Hv

1:24 PM

Ah I see

Tinkeringbell

@ArthurHv Heh yeah that's a joke here too, but usually we do know it means something like "I wanted to gift you a simple gift you'll have pleasure (self-care) from"

CaldeiraG

yea

also hello @ArthurHv o/

reddit.com/r/antiMLM/comments/j9eri5/… lol

IPS Comment Bot

1:44 PM

-1 for the very wrong "you cannot have female friends" statement. If a man told a woman "no male friends" that would be controlling and abusive. Same for this statement. I have close female friends that I've known for years, my wife is fine with that. That's the way it should be. — DaveG 27 secs ago

Matched regex(es) ["+1"]

CaldeiraG

@IPSCommentBot 100% agree

I have a feeling that both examples on the answers were abusive relationships

@IPSCommentBot fp

IPS Comment Bot

Marked this comment as not flag-worthy (fp). Currently marked 0tps/1fps

Tinkeringbell

I find the question... it's one of those that makes me go 'ouch'... without more details I don't think I can even begin to guess whether Alice is kinda overreacting and it might be possible to win her back, or whether the relationship with Alice is an abusive relationship, or whether Alice is more right than OP is letting on....

In short... it's more of a Reddit post XD

CaldeiraG

XD

Arthur Hv

I wanted to answer with the perspective that OP is of good faith but I really lacked backup material and it felt like I was just commenting on the issue, not answering it

I'll try to drop in a comment

CaldeiraG

2:03 PM

new answer there, I find the answer much more helpful

Tinkeringbell

I nitpicked. But yeah, I think that's a helpful answer! :)

IPS Comment Bot

@virolino : I reverted my -1 following your rewording. I’d still not upvote it as I don’t agree enough with the rest, but I can’t deny you made a good and honest effort. :) — breversa 2 mins ago

Matched regex(es) ["+1", "chatty"]

IPS Comment Bot

3:10 PM

@Tinkeringbell When you tell them you are really stressed and you don't want speculation, do they just blow past that and keep speculating, or does the conversation just drift back to the speculation? — DaveG 47 secs ago

Matched regex(es) ["possible-aic"]

Tinkeringbell

3:47 PM

@IPSCommentBot fp

IPS Comment Bot

Marked this comment as not flag-worthy (fp). Currently marked 0tps/1fps

Introverted Meta Man

6:46 PM

0

Q: How has IPS been affected by the current pandemic?

Did the current pandemic had an impact on traffic and posting on IPS? If so, how?

discussion statistics

lila

7:23 PM

+1 -1 thank you thanks accept click tick mark close upvote downvote

Ael

??? What?

lila

These are apparently swear words for the comments, bad words :D

Ael

Ahah, yeah they are x)

Comments with those word to tend to indicate that the comment might be useless (even if it's a nice one, like "thank you, I really like your answer!")

lila

I have never tried this and I don't even know if the system would allow posting this, but if someone copied this and posted a comment "+1 -1 thank you thanks accept click tick mark close upvote downvote" it would apparently be the worst comment ever :D

Ael

@lila For one it's giberish, so it would definitively be :p

The only way you could do worst is by using a list of swear words

Also, did you took a look at my meta question? (interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/a/3992/21067) I also made the answer and though it might interest you

lila

7:30 PM

@Ael Haha by the way I am proud to say that I have been there for 6 months and I never said an actual swear word there :D

@Ael I did and it's me who marked it with a star :D

@Ael It's like these data plots you've showed me yesterday, but much more detailed.

Nice work ^.^

Ael

@lila Oh, I hadn't notice the start. Thank you :D

@lila Sometimes I wish swear words were allow here (not toward other people though). I do like swearing when a situation is bad and it's frustrating to not be able to write the actual word in here ^^

lila

@Ael I also sometimes swear, but mostly it is if I'm sure nobody hears that, for example if I'm chilled and relaxed listening to music and reading something and suddenly, because of my wireless internet losing signal, music stops playing and I can't click on hyperlink and load next page that is down the rabbit hole I'm going to.

@Ael I don't remember the exact chat name, but I remember joining one chat room and there was a lot, a lot of swearing, it was like you want it - not at other people, these people were not arguing, just spicing up their words, I guess it depends on the policy of each chat room, I don't know how exactly it works.

Ael

7:49 PM

@lila It's more or less roomowner and local mods who decide of the rules. Here we have something like a "let's have child friendly language" policy (though it happens that we talk about sex)

lila

@Ael Oh okay, I have to say that this chat with lots of f-words and other swears did turn me off from the start, it creates unwelcoming atmosphere, even if nobody was insulted. If you suddenly changed the policy now that swearing is permitted on Awkward Silence then I guess I wouldn't mind too much because I'm already familiar; but if there was swearing from the start then I guess I would not dare to join :D

Ael

@lila Ah yeah, swearing can be intimidating. Though, some strangers knowing each other and talking between them is already almost too intimidating for me ^^

I must say, I was really suprised at how quickly you joined and become comfortable here. I believe I was more shy at the beginning

lila

8:06 PM

@Ael I think swearing is not on itself good nor bad because it is only a tool, like a knife could be both used as a life-saving tool or for doing harm; swearing has important uses, for me the most essential is high-priority alarm - for example I almost never swear, but if you heard me screaming the F-word then you will immediately know something is up.

@Ael I'm also surprised at this, but maybe it's because it's not my first chat, my first chat was Litter Box and I was really really shy at first, I never spoke and was only reading messages for some time.

@Ael Was Awkward Silence your first chat room?

Ael

@lila Oh yeah, I totaly did this "spying around" here at first too ^^ But then I wrote an IPS question and some chat regular had feedback for me and noticed I was here so they started talking to me and I got more comfortable and that's basicaly how it happened ^^ And yeah, the Akward Silence was my first chat :)

@lila For me, swearing is more like a stress/pain relief thing. Like if I hurt myself badly, I will definitively start saying some "ugly" words ^^

(NB: by "badly" I mean if I hurt my little toe ^^)

lila

@Ael Aha okay I understand ^.^ I was also super self-conscious on Litter Box, I saw my avatar being animated and flying down to join other avatars in chat room, I didn't know whether these people see this or not, and I didn't know if they are currently looking at this, I was asking myself whether they will think I'm awkward for joining chat and not talking? :D

Ael

@lila Oh yeah, this "notifications" thing when someone enter chat always stressed me at the beginning! I wanted to be unnotice so I really disliked it ^^

lila

@Ael Haha yes I understand, I also do this if I hurt myself but it really rarely happens, I'm not accident-prone; I've read an article long time ago that studied this and swear words actually increase our resistance to pain or something, 2 groups of people were tested and people who were told to use swear words coped with pain a lot better that the control group who was told to only use non-swear words.

Ael

8:23 PM

@lila Yeah, I heard of that study. And unfortunately for me, I do tend to be prone to accident ^^ So I swear a lot anytime I'm at a new place because I don't know what to watch out for yet ^^

lila

8:34 PM

@Ael Haha if I am in new place then I also bump into things in the beginning, but I quickly learn to navigate.

lila

9:45 PM

It is late, sleepy sleepy good night, it is late, sleepy sleepy turn off the light, great dreams unravel bad dreams unravel, I am going through dreamland's travel, strange dreams unravel weird dreams unravel, I am going over dreamland's travel. Good night IPS.

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