English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in link text in body, potentially bad ip for hostname in body, potentially bad ns for domain in body, potentially bad keyword in body, blacklisted user (143): From a cursory glance, MyLeague appears to have received almost zero updates by Dingbest on english.SE

SmokeDetector

5:01 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user (71): Does the left have dog whistles too? by Aba Saba on english.SE

Færd

6:47 AM

@tchrist Just remembered that in Farsi too there's a verb that has both a deontic (and rather formal) sense of to want/wish and an epistemic (and very common) sense of stating facts and forecasts about the future. It can couple with other verbs similarly to the way will does: like a modal. In the formal/archaic sense, it can also stand alone and have its own object.

Færd

7:01 AM

Correction: it can have a direct object without being formal at all. In fact, this use is also extremely common.

CowperKettle

7:23 AM

CowperKettle

9:55 AM

CowperKettle

10:30 AM

> Just letting you know that the Beatles museum is now open 8 days a week.

CowperKettle

10:49 AM

97

Q: 3 Logicians Walk Into a Bar

Three logicians walk into a bar. The barman says, 'Does everybody want a drink?' The first logician says, 'I don't know.' The second logician says, 'I don't know.' What does the third logician say? Please provide a clear explanation of why each of the logicians reply in the way they do.

Now I get it.

M.A.R.

11:25 AM

@tchrist Genau!

CowperKettle

11:39 AM

First snow has fallen today in Yekaterinburg.

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle yay?

CowperKettle

No. Yay will be when it finnaly sets.

From now on, it will be muddier and muddier until about November 10th.

M.A.R.

11:54 AM

Haha ouch

Mud sounds

@CowperKettle Sounds German

M.A.R.

1:27 PM

CowperKettle

this picture contains 84 000 000 (84 million) stars, out of Milky Way's 100 000 000 000 (100 thousand million) stars.

Robusto

1:50 PM

> [White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows] called into Fox News on Saturday night, knowing the president was watching, and praised his “unbelievable courage” and “unbelievable improvement.”

I'm going to set up a vendor stand outside the White House and sell superlatives to staffers who can't think of "unbelievable" new superlatives to use when kissing Trump's ass.

"Unbelievable courage"? Really? Really?

This cheapens and demeans the courage of others who have worked, sweated, and bled for our country. What's next? Give Trump the Medal of Honor for lying on a bed while doctors work to save him from a disease he allowed to happen?

Faheem Mitha

2:04 PM

@tchrist If you get someone worse, you'd have to get a worse name for him, then. Perhaps keep this in reserve?

Also, I hope you don't get someone worse. I'm not sure the Earth could survive. It's not doing too well as it is.

@tchrist Bad education?

@Robusto Do you mean homeopathic? Allopathy is India-speak for conventional/Western medicine.

Robusto

@FaheemMitha Sure.

Faheem Mitha

And Homeopathy is of course the Indian term for the traditional brand of fraudulent "medicine". Except Indians don't think it's fraud.

Robusto

Yeah, I misspoke. It happens.

Faheem Mitha

Allopathy is not a term one hears often in the West.

Or should that be "often hears"?

Robusto

Either way is fine.

Faheem Mitha

2:19 PM

I remain puzzled for Republican support is as high as it is. Just one in the lengthy list of things that puzzle me.

What do these people need to do to diminish support?

Robusto

You've heard the old saying "You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time"? Well, Trump's support seems to be bedrock at about 40%. Which gives us a number for how many people you can fool all the time.

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto Yes, I understand. Except that 40% is an awful lot of people.

Does anyone know how many, approximately?

Robusto

There are around 150 million registered voters in the US. So ~60 million. In your country there are probably more supporters of the Calcutta cricket team.

Cerberus

Only 150 million?

Is it that difficult to get registered?

Robusto

2:54 PM

@Cerberus No. It's easy.

A whole lot of people don't really care, or think it doesn't matter.

tchrist

3:15 PM

Bad Education (2004 film)

Bad Education (Spanish: La mala educación) is a 2004 Spanish drama film written and directed by Pedro Almodóvar. Starring Gael García Bernal, Fele Martínez, Daniel Giménez Cacho, Lluís Homar and Francisco Boira, the film focuses on two reunited childhood friends and lovers caught up in a stylised murder mystery. Along with metafiction, sexual abuse by Catholic priests, transsexuality and drug use are also important themes and devices in the plot. The film received an NC-17 rating in the United States for a depiction of homosexual oral sex. The film was released on 19 March 2004 in Spain and 10...

@Robusto I'm on the run, so this is a passing remark.... It looks like I’ve confused osteopaths with orthopedists and physiatrists. There’s also the DO-vs-MD thing.

Faheem Mitha

3:36 PM

@tchrist Not exactly what I had in mind.

Cerberus

@Robusto Hmm odd.

@tchrist I believe orthopaedists are real doctors.

Physiatrists I have never heard of.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus It's debatable what a real doctor is.

Most doctors I've met don't seem to know much about anything. And care less.

But maybe you're referring to qualifications.

Cerberus

Physiotherapists are not doctors, nor are they complete nonsense: I think they do a lot of good, but much of what they are taught is not academic nor based on properly researched science.

@FaheemMitha Then they are not deserving of the name.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Many doctors aren't. At least around here.

Cerberus

Yes, I am talking about legal and formal requirements, which are the same thing here: doctor is a protected title.

Even so, we have bad doctors, of course.

But the profession is strictly circumscribed and based on science.

And osteopathy is not science.

Faheem Mitha

3:43 PM

Few doctors know or care about science. They are akin to mechanics. Not research people.

In my experience, they are also rarely interested in their patients. Of course, I don't think I've met the best doctors.

Cerberus

Oh, why be so negative.

I would say mostly the opposite.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Not being negative. Just stating facts. Local facts, of course.

Cerberus

And I don't agree with your assumption that doctors should need to do research.

Faheem Mitha

I've never been to the Netherlands, and I can easily believe that the doctors are much better there.

Cerberus

I can't compare.

Faheem Mitha

3:48 PM

@Cerberus That wasn't an assumption. And I never said it should be a requirement, either.

I was again, just stating facts. Based on my experience, naturally.

@Cerberus Consider living in a country like India for a period of time, assuming it's feasible. You'd find it extremely educational. Not just India. Any similar country would do.

Though you probably wouldn't enjoy it.

Well, some people are interested in different cultures, but it probably wouldn't survive an extended stay. I've met foreigners who have lived in Bombay for a period of time. Without exception, they were eager to leave.

CowperKettle

4:20 PM

Night run in Yekaterinburg

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto Oh. I didn't realise the figures are so low. The Democratic Party (or anyone but the Republicans) should really try to get more people to vote.

Of course, it would help if the Democrats would stop offering their customarily vile candidates.

CowperKettle

4:45 PM

I wonder if there is a serious danger of covid infection when 2000 runners run together like this in the street.

Cerberus

5:13 PM

@FaheemMitha OK.

@FaheemMitha I'm sure you are correct.

I'm not much of a traveller.

But we were talking about the medical profession in America.

@CowperKettle Probably not much danger; outside infections seem to be rare?

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus We were? Ok.

CowperKettle

I only run together with them for 2 km, and then stood and took pictures.

Cerberus

It should be no more dangerous than cycling, which also involves people moving at great speed in close proximity.

@FaheemMitha The conversation you joined was about that.

So the comments you replied to were as well.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha Who would those be?

@FaheemMitha All doctors, around the world surely cared about science enough to pass the test that got them into and through medical school and residency. And een if you don't do research as a staff physician I'm pretty sure that you must do some kind of research as part of your residency (the few years of specialty training before you take you board exams to become a licensed physician (one who can practice medicine without oversight).

That's the US...I'm pretty sure its similar in Europe.

Robusto

5:54 PM

@FaheemMitha The vilest Democrat looks simon pure compared to Trump and his stooges.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Ok. Sorry for drifting from the point. Medical stuff is a big problem here, so one tends to focus on it.

Cerberus

No worries.

Faheem Mitha

In any case, it seems my comments were not relevant.

Cerberus

Just about a slightly different topic.

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Who would those be? The Democratic vile candidates?

Cerberus

5:57 PM

I'm sure medicine in India has been improving, though?

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus The technical standards aren't at issue. It's all about intentions.

Well, perhaps technical standards are not the greatest, but they'e not really the problem.

Cerberus

Just the overal quality.

Faheem Mitha

And as far as equipment and procedures goes, I think India has it.

@Cerberus No, it's that much of the medical facilities in India are run as criminal enterprises. Overcharging patients, prescribing unnecessary operations and procedures.

There's a certain amount of incompetence, but I think that issue is not so large in comparison.

Cerberus

Is that new?

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch I'm not really familiar with medical stuff in the US, though I lived there for a long time. I mostly did not have much to do with doctors while I was there. I can believe it's better than India.

@Cerberus Is what new?

Cerberus

6:01 PM

What you described.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus About the Indian medical profession? Probably not. India has tons of fraud and white-collar criminal activity. It's just part of the landscape.

It's a dangerous place, especially in comparison to the more orderly societies of Western Europe.

It's isn't necessarily advertised as such, though.

Cerberus

Right.

Faheem Mitha

Also bear in mind that medical treatment at the Western level and quality is out of the reach of most of the Indian population.

Cerberus

I know.

Faheem Mitha

The stuff I've mentioned is about private hospitals, which only the relatively well-off have access too. The govt hospitals are probably not so corrupt, but they offer poorer care on average, and are very underfunded. I don't know much about them.

Cerberus

6:07 PM

So I can imagine.

Robusto

@tchrist It's a blurry line. There are good osteopaths and bad MDs. But I have long considered the D.O. degree as requiring some degree of proof that the practitioner is not going to take one in the direction of fad diets and copper bracelets and the like.

Cerberus

You need silver, man.

Plated, of course.

Faheem Mitha

Silver?

Was this in the context of Trump's medical care?

Cerberus

7:21 PM

@FaheemMitha Oh, no, it was a reference to those pseudo-scientific bracelets.

Like this one:

This used to be on Dutch Tell Sell a lot.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus I see. Ugh. That kind of thing is very popular here.

Cerberus

"I can walk again!"

Faheem Mitha

Astrology. Hocus pocus.

Cerberus

Yeah.

I think that one is now forbidden here.

For making semi-medical claims.

Faheem Mitha

7:36 PM

Unfortunately this sort of thing is not forbidden here. They'd probably argue it interferes with freedom of speech, or something. Since we all know that science and medicine is all about opinion.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha ??? I'm asking you to name who you think are the bike democratic candidates.

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch What do you mean by "bike"?

Mitch

Oops ... Vile

Or are you calling them all vile?

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Disclaimer: I think most US politicians that have held high office are terrible people who have done terrible things. So my list might be redundant.

I think most Americans would not agree with that. Because of this weird thing called patriotism. I'm so glad I'm not afflicted by that.

skullpatrol

Yup, just another -ism

in This Is Fine, 57 mins ago, by Jolenealaska

> Cohen reacts to Trump calling out the Proud Boys during the debate, arguing they are “his army and he will call them to arms when he loses.”

'Evil': Three Ex-Trump Aides Join To Oust Trump After Debate Debacle | MSNBC

►

Cerberus

8:01 PM

@FaheemMitha Yeah, those things are normally legal here as well, unless they make claims of a medical nature. Then, when they get lots of attentions, the authorities may forbid them.

skullpatrol

8:18 PM

you can't forbid "stupidity"

but you may try

Robusto

8:30 PM

@skullpatrol You can't fix it, either.

skullpatrol

if it ain't broke, don't fix it?

Robusto

@skullpatrol You can't fix stupid.

skullpatrol

16 mins ago, by skullpatrol

but you may try

very, very few do try

Robusto

@skullpatrol Yes, you may be sure he will do anything—anything at all—to hold onto power.

skullpatrol

It's no longer "give me liberty or give me death"

t has become "give me sympathy or I will give you death"

Robusto

8:42 PM

@skullpatrol It's "Give me what I want or things will get ~~ugly~~ uglier."

skullpatrol

Thanks to the Internet for putting politics on steroids.

Robusto

Thanks to Republicans who would sell their country down the river for a few SCOTUS seats and tax cuts for billionaires.

skullpatrol

Yeah, billionaires have always ruled the world

and they always will

Money makes money

Færd

> How is this messaging — we hope the racist fascist genocidal Nazi-like dictator gets well soon and returns to work — not creating extreme cognitive dissonance among those who believed that they actually were sincere in their maximalist denunciations and invocations of fascism and Nazism regarding Trump? Shouldn’t liberals not just be confused but overtly disgusted at their leaders who want Trump to survive and return in full health to imposing fascism and genocide on Americans?

> If one really does believe that Trump is a “genocidal Nazi” — a Hitler-equivalent fascist dictator engaged in the deliberate mass slaughter of a particular ethnic or religious group (genocide) — then it would be not just irrational but madness and moral bankruptcy to hope that the Nazi genocidal fascist makes a speedy recovery and returns to work. But that’s exactly what virtually every prominent Democratic Party leader is doing.

(from here)

skullpatrol

too repetitive

Robusto

8:57 PM

@Færd So what? That's politics. You want to pay lip services to the media-centric pieties so that they can't beat you with them on air. Another way to view it: It looks churlish, and that is the sole province of the racist fascist genocidal Nazi-like would-be dictator who currently inhabits the White House.

Færd

@Robusto Not saying you have no point. But there's a great deal of hypocrisy to that kind of politics. It shouldn't be so readily excused.

Robusto

@Færd So what part of "politics" don't you understand.

Færd

No US-leader, liberal or conservative, reacts like that to the news of the demise of a Nazi-like leader of some other country.

It's not the sole province of the Trumpist's, I mean.

Robusto

My point was about apparent churlishness, not hypocrisy.

Færd

You don't have to be churlish to be honest here.

Robusto

9:03 PM

I may inwardly rejoice at the misfortune of someone I hate, but to display such an emotion is unbecoming.

Færd

Look at this:

> Rachel Maddow MSNBC
@maddow
God bless the president and the first lady. If you pray, please pray for their speedy and complete recovery — and for everyone infected, everywhere.

Robusto

@Færd Now I'm being dishonest?

Færd

I meant the politicians. I was talking about the politicians.

Robusto

@Færd So what? I don't watch Rachel Maddow. If she wants to slobber over Trump now that he's in the hospital, that's nothing to me.

Færd

That's the kind of effusiveness the article was about in the first place. If that's nothing to you, we have nothing to argue about here.

Robusto

9:06 PM

@Færd My point is this: We have bigger fish to fry than Rachel Maddow and her feigned concern for Trump.

Færd

Go fry it then. I'm not blocking your way.

Robusto

No need to be surly.

skullpatrol

25 mins ago, by skullpatrol

Thanks to the Internet for putting politics on steroids.

:-)

@Robusto he has a lot of experience with the art of "ugliness"

Robusto

Word.

skullpatrol

next comes the art of war

Robusto

9:13 PM

crosses fingers

skullpatrol

The Chinese wrote the art of war.

Robusto

Well, one Chinese did.

Unless he had a ghostwriter.

Meanwhile, here's something to shrivel the hairs off your arse about the state of healthcare in the US.

skullpatrol

Wow

Robusto

9:44 PM

@skullpatrol Why are you doing this to the chat?

:55732516 Thank you.

I assumed it was because your Raiders were losing to Buffalo.

skullpatrol

np

:-)

Faheem Mitha

@Færd People are a bit too ready to throw around words like "fascist". The Republican Party isn't (yet) fascist, nor is Trump, though they are both quite far in that direction. We actually have fascists running things in India, and the differences are quite noticeable. E.g. Amnesty International's operations were recently shut down by the Indian govt.

And that's just one example.

Cerberus

10:15 PM

@FaheemMitha Yeah, Republicans are no fascists.

What would your definition be?

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus My definition of what?

Cerberus

@Færd There may be inconsistency, but would you really call Trump a Nazi?

@FaheemMitha Fascists, what else?

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Ok. Well, fascism is not very different to what the Republicans are. It's just a matter of degree.

But normally totalitarian dictatorships are charaterized in part by violent coercion. So, for example, they suppress dissent violently, including the press, political opponents, and other people who don't agree with them. There are usually no Noam Chomsky's and people like him in a fascist dictatorship. At least, none that have wide currency.

Incidentally, the Modi govt is doing some of that. They only place they haven't yet mentioned is arresting political opponents, except in Kashmir. And they may do more. It's early days yet. My guess is that they are only getting warmed up.

Actually, press suppression probably doesn't need to be violent, as long as people comply. And mostly, in India, the press is complying, though there are some honorable exceptions.

Cerberus

All right, I hear a couple of different terms here.

Totalitarian, dictatorship, violent, coercion.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Just trying to explain my perspective.

Cerberus

10:26 PM

Sure.

Faheem Mitha

Fascist as a term isn't particularly well-defined, like any other political term.

Cerberus

Well, I would like to define it, or it's somewhat meaningless.

Faheem Mitha

My feeling is that violence is quite central, though.

Cerberus

And I think there exist good definitions.

Agreed.

Faheem Mitha

Wikipedia says:

> Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy[3] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe

As you can see, some of that certainly applies to the Republican Party and the Trump Adiminstration. And other Republican Adminstrations, like GW Bush.

But other parts of it don't.

An important aspect of fascism is their closeness with big business. A sort of symbiotic relationship. I think of fascism as a sort of cancer of capitalism. And in some ways it's similar to how a big business power structure would look like if it was transplanted into political life.

This is another way in which the Republicans aren't all the way there yet. IMO.

Cerberus

10:31 PM

@FaheemMitha Yeah, but I would say that definition is a bit too vague. It doesn't capture the heart of the ideology, I would say.

Faheem Mitha

In India, Modi has regularly twisted the law to give his corporate cronies the advantage. Consider the rise of Mukesh Ambani, who is currently the 5th richest man in the world. In a country where many people don't know where their next meal is coming from.

@Cerberus I'm sure one can do better. It was just at hand.

Cerberus

Yeah.

That definition is rather a description of the practical appearance of fascist governments.

> Fascism is from Latin fasces, the rods-and-axe wielded by the guards of Roman magistrates with the highest power (imperium). The fasces therefore symbolise power and violence. Fascism is an ideology glorifying violence and power. In politics, this is often expressed in the desire for strong leadership and a strong, pure, united nation, and in the practice of violence to suppress all dissent.

@FaheemMitha How is this? ↑

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Where is that from?

This leaves out stuff as well, IMO. For example, fascism is definitely associated with capitalism of the modern variety, and that isn't expressed here at all.

Cerberus

Why do you feel it is associated with capitalism?

I would say fascist Germany, for example, was less capitalist than America or England.

The fascists saw themselves as a Third Way, between capitalism and communism.

@FaheemMitha That was a trial definition I wrote.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus That's just my take on it.

@Cerberus The Nazis were very close with big German business, as I understand it.

That should be very easy to check.

Cerberus

10:44 PM

Certainly.

Faheem Mitha

They kind of want the same thing, to a first approximation. Shut up and do as you're told.

Cerberus

But they also did various things which are non-capitalist: they had a strong focus on corporatism.

Which is, in a way, antithetical to raw capitalism.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Who did? And what do you mean by corporatism?

M.A.R.

@Færd Meh. Who called Trump a genocidal nazi? Any prominent Democrat?

Cerberus

@FaheemMitha Everyone wants that, including communism, absolutism, etc. etc.

@FaheemMitha The Nazis did.

M.A.R.

10:46 PM

Nobody called him that, even if people were thinking it, so nobody's wishing him death now, even though they're thinking it.

Cerberus

Corporatism

Corporatism is a political ideology which advocates the organization of society by corporate groups, such as agricultural, labour, military, scientific, or guild associations on the basis of their common interests. The term is derived from the Latin corpus, or "human body". The hypothesis that society will reach a peak of harmonious functioning when each of its divisions efficiently performs its designated function, such as a body's organs individually contributing its general health and functionality, lies at the center of corporatist theory. Corporatist ideas have been expressed since Ancient...

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Not everyone. Or at least they don't take action in that direction.

@Cerberus Hmm. Capitalism has corporations. But maybe I'm missing your point.

Anyway, sleep time.

M.A.R.

@FaheemMitha That sounds like everyone in power, ever

Cerberus

@FaheemMitha That was hyperbole. Everyone = many other ideologies. And also many practical manifestations of otherwise unrelated ideas.

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. Not everyone.

Cerberus

10:47 PM

@FaheemMitha That is an (imo. incorrect) Americanism.

A corporation can mean different things.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Ok.

Cerberus

But I do not mean the American corporation.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Ok. Well, I guess I don't understand what you had in mind, then.

Cerberus

American capitalism does not have corporations in the sense of corporatism.

> Corporatism is a political ideology which advocates the organization of society by corporate groups, such as agricultural, labour, military, scientific, or guild associations on the basis of their common interests.
The term is derived from the Latin corpus, or "human body". The hypothesis that society will reach a peak of harmonious functioning when each of its divisions efficiently performs its designated function, such as a body's organs individually contributing its general health and functionality, lies at the center of corporatist theory.

Faheem Mitha

Even in the US, the govt doesn't tell people to shut up and do as they are told.

M.A.R.

10:48 PM

@Cerberus Europe is a country and Asia is an ocean . . .

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Do you have an example of where this has been practised?

Cerberus

A corporation is more like a guild than like a commercial company.

@FaheemMitha As I said, by the Nazis.

It was very popular in many countries in the thirties.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Ok. But they certainly had large corporations (in the American sense) too.

What's the difference? What was an example of this in that time period?

Cerberus

So, instead of competition between commercial businesses, there was to be more coöperation, between different organisations and the government.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Sounds like a planned economy.

M.A.R.

10:51 PM

@FaheemMitha Everyone in power would like to, at least eventually, unless they're prevented from doing so because other people would be upholding the law

Cerberus

@FaheemMitha A little bit, yes.

> A fascist corporation is a government body that brings together federations of workers and employers syndicates to regulate production in a holistic manner. Each trade union would theoretically represent its professional concerns, especially by negotiation of labour contracts and the like. It was theorized that this method could result in harmony amongst social classes.[32]
However, authors have noted that historically de facto economic corporatism was also used to reduce opposition and reward political loyalty.

Does this sound very capitalism to you?

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. Right, except they don't typically act on it directly.

@Cerberus Well, it depends on what you mean by cooperation. As long as there is still private profit, it's still a corporation.

Cerberus

Now, you are correct that Germany had many large businesses who were no corporations in this sense. E.g. Krupp worked happily together with the Nazis while also being a very commercial, competititive business.

And many German tycoons supported the Nazis, at various stages.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Right.

Cerberus

But, alongside this, there was also the Nazi inclination towards non-competitive corporatism.

M.A.R.

10:53 PM

All I know about capitalism is some rich people run business that would otherwise be run by the government

So when people look for profit, sometimes that drive contradicts the selflessness some businesses require, like healthcare.

Cerberus

@FaheemMitha It could be argued that this corporatism was closer to the Nazi ideology than were the competitive businesses, but the latter already existed in Germany and were, in practice, also used as part of the Nazi power structure.

M.A.R.

But it seems vague to me how drastic this effect should be compared to systems that aren't capitalist. I need to get out there.

Cerberus

@FaheemMitha So I would say fascism is definitely more compatible with capitalism than is communism; and fascists have used capitalism in many ways; but many other ideologies have also used capitalism to some degree, e.g. absolutism, liberalism, so I would not say capitalism is essential to fascism.

@M.A.R. Yeah, I would not call healthcare a business.

@M.A.R. Capitalist systems have problems; non-capitalism systems have other problems.

But a society does not need to be all capitalism, or all non-capitalist (like communism): we can use bits of capitalism, as in fact most governments do.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…