English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2020-08-03

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CowperKettle

01:52

user image

Mitch

02:03

@CaptainBohemian That makes less sense than Lebanon is the Switzerland of the Middle East, And Beirut is the Paris.

Unless you're from Singapore. That would make about as much sense as my metaphor.

Wait.. what is the metaphor with again?

2 hours later…

CowperKettle

04:32

My cat climed the kitchen table in the nigth and nibbled on tropical flowers in a vase. And puked out bits of green leaves and stems on the floor.

This taught him nothing, because he has just climbed the table again.

I had to ditch the flowers in the bin.

3 hours later…

CowperKettle

07:47

> You can contact the personal data protection officer of the Sponsor at: [email protected]

I think it should be via

I'm proofreading this text

Xanne

@CowperKettle at: is fine.

CowperKettle

@Xanne Thank you!

> The Medical officer or the Responsible medical specialist (at the demonstration event – only the Medical officer) has provided me with the opportunity to ask questions about the Treatment.

I wonder if the is fine.

0

Q: Contact us via [email protected] vs. Contact us at [email protected]

I'm proofreading a text and have come across this sentence: You can contact the personal data protection officer of the Sponsor at: [email protected] I think it should be via instead of at because at usually implies some "more constant" location like a website. Am I right, or maybe at could be us...

0

Q: I was given an opportunity to \ the opportunity to

From a document I've been proofreading: The Medical officer or the Responsible medical specialist has provided me with the opportunity to ask questions about the Treatment. Should it not be an opportunity? Or would the use of an indicate only a single chance, whereas the use of the would indica...

Xanne

08:09

@CowperKettle I think the is good, but it works either way.

CowperKettle

I am never sure with (the?) articles

Even with (the?) articles before the word articles I am never sure.

KannE

@tchrist Idaho

CowperKettle

08:45

We're having a hot August, it's +26 now

CowperKettle

09:02

What do we call pre-made templates of contracts, which we later fill in with the necessary names, contact details etc?

Will standard templates fit the purpose?

Xanne

09:17

@CowperKettle Standard template is okay; the phrase “legal form” is also used, for example on the web site Legal Zoom, which provides some standard forms for various purposes.

CowperKettle

09:46

Next week the UK starts the mass introduction of a new covid test that gives results in just 90 minutes.

That will be great

1 hour later…

CowperKettle

10:49

spacelaunchnow.me/launch/starship-sn5-150m-hop

The first Starship hop to take place in 5 hours

CowperKettle

11:20

> He superimposes an image showing the area under cultivation in 2012. Then, farmers were working 157,000 hectares. By 2018 it had doubled to 317,000 hectares. In 2019 it was 344,000 hectares.

bbc.com/news/science-environment-53450688

A surge of solar power adoption in Afghanistan. Leads to record heroin crops

CowperKettle

11:35

> It is quite possible that due to documented reasons (e.g. due to specifics of the topic, requirements of experts or leading field specialists, presence of just a single specialist in a certain field, specific competence possessed by a certain structure, etc.) it will be impossible to make a short list of candidates.

I think I should amend this to "conditions posed by experts". Or "demands made by experts". Meaning, the company wants to hire expects for consulting, but they pose salary demands that the company cannot meet.

M.A.R.

12:11

Occupational demands maybe?

There's probably still a better way to word it

CowperKettle

12:48

Thank you!

Robusto

@CowperKettle Perhaps specifications of experts?

Captain Bohemian

13:07

Do you want to walk?

I just want a car to ferry me.

What is like to have laundry done, food prepared and house cleaned automatically?

If all drudgeries are mechanicalized, so that we can dedicate to interesting things completely, how nice it is?

CowperKettle

13:25

user image

@CaptainBohemian I love walking, it's very good for your health and it is pleasant, especially in parks and in the wood

The two cats have crowded in a single chair, a rare sight.

Captain Bohemian

14:13

how nice if there are labor servers!

if you are overwhelmed with labor works, how do you still have time to do literal works?

1 hour later…

Captain Bohemian

15:27

I think machines are more efficient than humans in labor work.

They can solve your hunger anytime - even if you wake up midnight feeling hungry they will serve you food immediately

CowperKettle

Machines now can compose highly readable texts. I'm afraid they will overtake us completely.

Robusto

@CowperKettle And yet they still can't figure out simple grammar: cf. the grammar checker in Word.

I'm sure machine-generated prose will be full of obtuseness and obvious artifacts.

But I could be wrong.

I've listened to computer-generated music before, and while it is impressive that such a thing can be done, I still find it lacks inspiration—much like a great deal of human-generated music.

Computers may be able to generate oodles of Telemann sonatas, but I don't think they'll ever generate a Messe in H-moll to rival J. S. Bach's.

Again, I could be wrong.

CowperKettle

15:49

As far as I understand, now they make artificial neural networks, and why not? I'm a neural network. Why another neural network, even in hardware form, cannot do what I can do?

Robusto

@CowperKettle I think it could do everything you can do except for the inspiration motivated by the connection to your body.

It could provide a simulacrum of that, but not a direct inspiration.

CowperKettle

> Should doubts arise concerning the proposed consultant(s) and the estimated payments, or in cases where a concerted action may be organized at the Group level, the Global Office manager provides the Applicant with instructions regarding any changes that should be made in the Request for consulting services.

Robusto

Maybe that can ultimately be faked to the point where it is indistinguishable, I don't know. But would the beauty of Helen of Troy move it to write an epic?

CowperKettle

I always stumble when chosing articles for at (something) level

Robusto

It's fine to say "at the Group level" if so inclined.

CowperKettle

15:53

@Robusto Why not? We could reconstitute in silico the neural anatomy of the deep brain structures responsible for emotions.

Robusto

Scary thought.

The question then becomes "Why would we want to?" If we go down that road we're going to be replicating fear, hostility, aggression—all things I would hope we would like to see evolve out of the human race.

I think we should aim higher.

CowperKettle

Yes there might be some higher justice in this.

Robusto

But then the question becomes "Are our base motivations a necessary part of our humanity?"

CowperKettle

As of now, we consider other people somehow "lacking" in spirit or in "character" if they slide down into depression or drugs. And now we're accumulating enough knowledge about the structure of neural connections, and each week I read in neuroscience news that in reality there's no "character", that each downslide is related to minute changes in brain structure and metabolism.

A Mozart is just a luckier machine than some serial killer. Had he the same genes and ontogenesis, he would go on a killing spree.

Robusto

Well, Mozart did go on a kind of killing spree. How many other composers' works of that era do we even find listenable now?

But I take your point. If it's all chemistry, then it's all chemistry. But I think it's more than chemistry. I think we are the sum of our chemistry as influenced by the sum of our experiences in this body and this world.

M.A.R.

16:52

@CowperKettle I don't think science has been able to rule out free will yet.

@CowperKettle I think most machines will be as good as most humans.

What has ensured humanity's growth after all the stupid things we've done when the primal instincts kick in is we're diverse in nature and even more diverse in thought.

A species is said to be tolerant of massive changes to the environment if the gene pool is diverse enough. We're weaponized with something further than that: Diversity in choices.

So even if Wall-E happens and most humans turn into disfigured sacks of potatoes, you'd still have athletic nuts and bodybuilders and rock climbers.

If 1984 happens, you'd have Winstons and lots more.

tchrist

@M.A.R. Today on Colorado Day I have learned that Colorado is not a rectangle, but a hexahectaenneacontakaiheptagon. CC @Cerberus so he can apply tremata where needed in that crazy word.

M.A.R.

All that quasi-inspirational rambling aside, I do think there will soon be a very dogmatic process for approval for different AI, so they don't go crazy red angry on us.

I quit in the middle of pronouncing that

@tchrist Well, hold on a moment while I register that information somewhere for my future world conquering plans

697 sides eye roll

Robusto

17:10

@tchrist Ah, but that must delight your sesquipedalian senses, ne?

Robusto

17:32

Also, it sure looks like a rectangle to me. Much more of one than my own quasi-boxlike state is, or, really, any other US state besides Wyoming.

Even the Dakotas have spoiled their symmetry with riparian borders.

CowperKettle

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user image

I wanted to run some more, but it started to rain

Robusto

@CowperKettle Attaboy.

@CowperKettle That's loser talk. Get back out there and finish the 10k.

CowperKettle

17:49

No, 7 km is allright.

I've run 1220 km since January 1

Robusto

Good work.

M.A.R.

18:43

10k was . . . five miles? I forgot

I haven't done 10k in a month or month and half :/

Robusto

18:59

6.2 something miles, IIRC.

The Bad Way to Teach Music to Babies - Dubious YouTube Channels & Bleeping Toys

This is awesome.

M.A.R.

@Robusto Haha whose stride length?

Robusto

Makes no difference. Miles and kilometers have nothing inherently to do with stride length.

M.A.R.

Ah but don't people with longer strides and slower speeds cover more in 10000 steps?

Robusto

Doesn't matter. The distance doesn't change.

M.A.R.

I don't get it

verywellfit.com/how-many-walking-steps-are-in-a-mile-3435916 This is how I went about it

Hmm, I do misremember though, it'd be closer to six miles for me

Robusto

19:17

Closer to 6.2, but that is a good one-decimal-place rounding.

But I really don't understand why you think stride length has anything to do with overall distance?

The mile represents 5,280 feet, but it's supposedly 1,000 paces (left heel to left heel, or two one-leg steps) as drilled by Roman soldiers in antiquity.

Obviously that's not a precision measurement, but apparently it could come reasonably close.

M.A.R.

@Robusto I dunno how much it'd change but one decimal place is reasonable to expect

Robusto

Notice that the miles/kilometer conversion roughly forms the Fibonacci series: 5 miles is around 8 kilometers, 8 miles is around 13 kilometers, 13 miles -> 21 km, etc. The farther you go with the series the closer it gets to accurate.

M.A.R.

Hah, never noticed that

1 hour later…

M.A.R.

20:27

5

Q: What is “a place with a lot of wind“ called in English?

I am looking for a word or a discourse for a place with a lot wind if any exists in English. For instance, “We had a hard time on ______(s)”. Some languages (i.e. Turkish) already have a common word for it.

single-word-requests

We're slowly getting there folks. Ping me when the SWR comes whose answer is "cake"

Gigili

Haha, I made my third app!

M.A.R.

Congrats

Robusto

@M.A.R. What kind of cake?

M.A.R.

OMG the questions are getting more and more complex

Robusto

You can give this one a try:

2

Q: How and when did "jug" come to be a slang term for "prison"?

Most of the online dictionaries give this kind of alternate meaning of jug: Slang. jail; prison. When I was in grammar school it's what we called detention: "If you talk back to the teacher, she's going to send you to the Jug." Collins says the origin of the main meaning as a narrow-necked cont...

etymology slang

M.A.R.

20:31

Sehr tief

Gigili

@Robusto Interesting.

M.A.R.

Those thing are called jougs? TIL

Robusto

@M.A.R. Nicht so tief als Immanuel Kant.

Gigili

The only issue is the narrator talks so fast that makes me edgy.

M.A.R.

Anytime now Mitch comes in with "who do you think you are, Kant"

Mitch

20:35

@M.A.R. I love that joke.

Because he says it to a policeman

who then whacks him over the head with a baton.

M.A.R.

So ahead of his time

Robusto

@M.A.R. I Kant hear you.

Mitch

@M.A.R. Just for a sanity check... 'blowy' is not an actual word, right? It's right there in the dictionary, and, while much less frequent than 'blustery', it is not infinitesimally small on NGrams. But people don't actually -use- it.

M.A.R.

BTW, my Turkish's word for a place with wind is, translated literally, "windy"

Gigili

You control the water and you control everything.

Mitch

20:37

@M.A.R. 'windy' is totally a word.

M.A.R.

@Mitch if sleeping has sexual connotations, I'm pretty sure blowy would too

The spellchecker objects as well

Gigili

Do you know how they make it through each and every day? They believe. They believe it’s going to be better.

People have to believe in something.

Robusto

And don't forget blowsy

1. (esp of a woman) untidy in appearance; slovenly or sluttish

M.A.R.

I rest my case

It's all over the floor

Mitch

'blowsy', while not exactly rolling off the tongue, is more of a word than 'blowy'.

to me.

at least.

M.A.R.

20:39

Hundreds of 100 dollar bills

Mitch

really 'blowy' is a word?

Robusto

@Mitch I would never use blowy, and indeed never have.

M.A.R.

I haven't, but I don't count

Mitch

@Robusto That's not necessarily a reason (but it is my reason also)

Gigili

Crunchy creamy candy cookie cupcake.

Robusto

20:41

I really don't know why people think any concept should be able to be reduced into a single word. What's wrong with good, descriptive writing? "It was a place where the wind from the desert bit into your cheeks like a lash."

Gigili

Oh, where is @RegDwigнt? I think you were right about the Russia discussion.

Robusto

That's better than a word that means that.

@Gigili Now, now ... let's not get that argument rekindled.

Gigili

Where do you think I come from? Look into my eyes.

Mitch

@Gigili A candy cookie cupcake? That's kind of a lot for a snack

Robusto

You had me at cupcake.

M.A.R.

20:43

@Robusto what's the speaker's accent here?

Robusto

@M.A.R. Irish.

Mitch

@Robusto because the word blustery exists, people think there must be a word for everything

Gigili

Why, we'd turn on each other like a bunch of animals!

M.A.R.

Yeah, I was mostly only familiar with Scottish, but it didn't sound Scottish

Robusto

Irish sounds much slouchier than Scottish.

M.A.R.

20:45

The Irish in movies is very hardly Irish

Robusto

Scottish sounds like the words are blocks being regurgitated.

Gigili

I'm gonna shift the features on your face if you don't shut up!

Mitch

Not. enough cupcakes in Ireland

Robusto

I had Irish oats for breakfast this morning. Quite good with butter and syrup and raisins and walnuts and cinnamon.

M.A.R.

I mean Liam Neeson is Irish, did he sound slouchy?

Gigili

20:47

I think I just heard a voice in my head. Or not?

M.A.R.

Er, does

Robusto

@Gigili If we heard it too then it wasn't in your head.

M.A.R.

Don't wanna kill another legend during the 2020s

Robusto

user image

@M.A.R. What legend would that be?

Gigili

As I continue my efforts to become a better person, my resolutions are: 1. Stop making lists. B. Be more consistent.

Robusto

20:50

All of my to-do lists have only one item: make list.

M.A.R.

@Robusto Neeson. Yeah yeah anything below Bach level is not a legend but most everyone in the world knows him and that's enough in my book

Lists need to be done right, and AFAIK the right way is very intricate and time consuming.

So yeah, it's easier to become a better person if we drop lazy and reckless habits

Robusto

@M.A.R. Don't forget, there are multiple accents in Ireland.

M.A.R.

Of course, but a person exposed to all of this from a really tiny hole outside can only see so much

Robusto

Scottish accent vs Irish accent (funny)

@M.A.R. Yeah, you have to go to a place to really experience the accents.

The guy in the video has a very good ear, btw, and is a natural mimic.

Robusto

21:11

I've spent time in Ireland, by the way—Dublin, where I did some work a while back—and it's wonderful to hear them talk. I've come to the conclusion that Ireland is all about drinking and talking. Wonderful conversations all around.

Mitch

@Robusto and then drop the oats and it's excellent.

Robusto

Nah, it's all good, man.

Robusto

21:35

Speaking of translators:

The World’s Worst Translator - Alternatino

RegDwigнt

@Robusto nah, you're just afraid that the single word for it is kissinger or dzhugashvili or some such monstrosity.

Which to be fair it very well might be.

I haven't asked on ELU so I don't know.

FERROUD 3 Pieces for Solo Flute

Three interesting pieces I don't think I've heard before.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Please don't say "Kissinger" in chat. That's beyond the pale.

RegDwigнt

The description says the skill level is intermediate, but there's a ton of very different techniques that I don't even know what to call.

I especially liked the last few measures of the second piece.

But loved them all.

Robusto

Didja get my email?

RegDwigнt

Yes I did. And also, thank you.

BTW, what happened with that strange beaming at the end I can actually explain.

Robusto

21:44

@RegDwigнt no hay de qué

RegDwigнt

It's not a replacement for ties. It's a reading help if nothing else.

I often do that for myself, usually for Chopin or Liszt.

Robusto

Logical groupings?

RegDwigнt

Yeah.

Like.

You know how they'll often have those ten-octave runs that are neither scales nor arpeggios.

Robusto

I tried playing each first note of a group with a line over it to give it full value. Also accent it a bit.

RegDwigнt

But you look closer and it's the same five or maybe four notes.

But you're in like 6/8 or 9/8 or whatever, so the grouping is obscured.

Robusto

21:46

tenuto ... I couldn't think of the word for a second. My old brain.

RegDwigнt

Yeah the trema.

No wait, not the trema.

Haha now I can't think of the word.

Let's call it a line.

I learned to be very careful with that one for strings. They take it to mean "use the whole bow".

Robusto

Ah.

RegDwigнt

I do use it for the flute occasionally.

And other winds.

Where I take it to mean the same thing as on the piano. Full note duration.

Robusto

I like the music in that video so far.

RegDwigнt

I was half expecting you'd say "yeah I had to play it for this and that audition".

You always do that to me.

Robusto

21:50

Nope, I've never played these.

RegDwigнt

Oh, and on the subject of the low H. What happened there is that the original piece is in, uh, Db major I believe. Can't be bothered walking over to the piano and checking.

So I just transposed it so something less unwieldy where the melody would be more or less in the sweet spot.

Robusto

Maybe they weren't around when I was playing.

RegDwigнt

And then by complete accident the lowest note turned out to be an H. So I said, shrug, suits me fine.

@Robusto well the description said 1923 I think?

Or maybe the video itself.

I've heard the name before, Ferroud.

Robusto

Dunno. It wasn't like I didn't scour the music stores for good flute music.

@RegDwigнt Yeah. And like I say, I see a low B (H) I play it. No problem.

RegDwigнt

Yeah well. 1923 is, like, it's public-domain now, but probably wasn't when you played it so maybe it was out of print or something.

Robusto

21:53

What's really not fun is trying to slide from, say, a low C# to the low B. That is awkwardness.

@RegDwigнt Who knows. We didn't have the internet to search for this shit back in the '70s.

I would have to go through filing cabinets of sheet music.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto right, so yes, I actually can't play it in that context, at that tempo. I need quite a bit of warm slow air. The time that I have for the full note there, I would need just for the attack alone.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt I presume you know about breath control from singing. Only with the flute you have to do that on steroids.

RegDwigнt

Also. On the piano the final run is a full octave more. I've actually had to change it from the original piece already. So on the minus side, if I move it a fifth higher, I'd have to shorten it further still. On the plus side, it's been changed from the original already so if you're not liking anything in there it can be changed further still.

Robusto

And keep your throat wide open—WIDE open—so you don't sound like you're gasping for breath when you do breathe. Which you are.

RegDwigнt

Yes, exactly. I would need time for that task alone.

Robusto

21:58

A good flutist can get a double lungful of air in about a quarter of a second.

It's ... a lot of work.

RegDwigнt

Which is why if I'm below the middle D at all, I usually write full notes. And also pianissimo. Usually at the beginning of a passage where the flute is only just coming in in the background. Just warming up the embouchure.

Robusto

To build up your embouchure try the Louis Moyse long-tone drills at the beginning of every practice session. Basically you start on the middle B and slur down to B-flat. Then B-flat to A and so on chromatically for two octaves.

Each one should take a full breath.

And before that try your whistle tones. If you don't know what they are, look them up.

RegDwigнt

No I mean when orchestrating or arranging a piece. I like my parts to come in gradually. I won't let my horn players start on the high C, vivace and staccato.

Robusto

With whistle tones you have to try to focus on one of those whispery harmonics if you can.

RegDwigнt

You welcome them to your piece like that, you'll need a set of fresh horn players to play the rest of it.

Robusto

22:02

@RegDwigнt OIC.

@RegDwigнt You're such a gentleman.

If you ever want to piss off a horn player, have them wait for like half an hour and then come in altissimo pianissimo.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto Nah, wind players are just not as disposable as violists.

Hell, I could play the viola, and there's at least one of me absolutely everywhere I go.

Robusto

Careful what you say. You may get dragooned into that one of these days.

Anyway, you came too late to the party. Now I have to go shopping for ramen ingredients. Chow for now.

RegDwigнt

Nah, I'm on a schedule. Harp and cello first. Then the horn. Violas can wait.

@Robusto yes thank you, TTYL.

I need to be transcribing a 40-minute piece myself. And I'm only 9 minutes in.

Quite a lot of flute in it, too. And angled horn for some reason.

I'll go type a couple measures.

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Aug '203

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