whatever, quid - 2020-05-31

4:28 AM

@quid I have added an answer which says where in the help center the link to the search faq could be included: Should we add external searches in some help pages about search?

Arjun Rana

10:49 AM

hey guys

amWhy

@ArjunRana hey gals! ;-)

Arjun Rana

0

A: Eliminate $\alpha,\beta,\gamma$ from the system of equations

From equation $3$ and $2$, using cross-multiplication: $$\frac{a}{\frac{\sin\beta}{\cos\gamma}-\frac{\sin\gamma}{\cos\beta}}=\frac{b}{\frac{\sin\gamma}{\cos\alpha}-\frac{\sin\alpha}{\cos\gamma}}=\frac{c}{\frac{\sin\alpha}{\cos\beta}-\frac{\sin\beta}{\cos\gamma}}=k$$ Using this and putting the v...

@amWhy , excuse me i am not a girl and secondly congratulations on getting your chatting privileges back

amWhy

@ArjunRana And I'm not a guy! ;-) Glad to be back.

Arjun Rana

@amWhy, did you bother to read "surely you are joking Mr feynman"?

amWhy

@ArjunRana No, I haven't yet. Sorry... I've been working longer hours than usual...

Arjun Rana

11:02 AM

@amWhy , no need of that, i know teachers and professors are having a rough time due to the pandemic

quid

11:47 AM

@MartinSleziak thanks. I'll try the escalation process.

Hello @amWhy, I hope all is well for you. Today the final of the Lindores Abbey Rapid Challenge starts. Carlsen got eliminated in the semi-final by Nakamura.

amWhy

12:02 PM

@quid Yes, all is well. I hope all is well with you, as well. Thanks for the chess update!

quid

@amWhy yes, thanks. It starts in 2 hours but is played over three days.

Oh, no. I got confused.

Apparently they have a rest day. It all starts tomorrow.

Arjun Rana

1:34 PM

Sorry, I forgot to mention my cause for sharing a link to one of my answers. I really spent some time on it but as you can see even though my answer is the only answer,still the OP didn't care to click on accept button

I am not saying that I am hungry for rep(+15 wouldn't really make a change), but the satisfaction that one gets when he helped someone was missing here,

Before I put it up here it had 0 votes,😑😑

quid

2:06 PM

@ArjunRana yes this can be frustrating but it happens. The situation with that question is a bit strange as there is an answer there that was eventually deleted.

amWhy

2:24 PM

@quid I'm not sure what "escalation" means in this context. I'm assuming it has something to do with the process/protocol for site moderators to raise concerns/requests to the network/CMs? However, I find it confusing that "escalation" is also referred to on this site negatively, in the context of conflict.

quid

@amWhy concretely it means that I added status-review. This is a somewhat recently introduced procedure by SE (not the tag itself but the approach). See for example the post below for context.

21

Q: What posts should be escalated to staff using [status-review], and how do I escalate them?

For context on how this process came to be, please see our initial commitment to responding to Meta and Mods, our guidelines for the testing period, and the results of the initial test and next steps. This post contains guidance to ensure moderators understand when to escalate issues that th...

I share your observation regarding the different connotations of the word, but for better or worse it seems to be (now) jargon for bringing (feature) request to SE staff's attention.

amWhy

@quid Thanks, @quid. I agree with the "for better or worse" observation.

@quid In that light, what would I need to do to convince math.se mods that we need a function enabling reviewers in the suggested edit review queue to flag for moderator attention?

Every day, literally, I come across an "anonymous user" suggesting an edit which vandalizes, usually, I high rep user. Also, I've encountered, over the last four days, a user who repeatedly suggests edits to already-properly-formatted posts that to not change the posts in anyway whatsoever.

quid

@amWhy if you want to follow that process, you would first post a feature-request on our meta explaining the need, then we will see which and how much feedback it gets and how convincing it is. Based on this we decide if we "escalate" it (then SE sees it and might do it).

amWhy

@quid Okay, thanks for the feedback.

Arjun Rana

2:40 PM

I might be totally wrong but I think @amWhy should run for mod elections

amWhy

@quid I'd definitely first want to collect samples of such posts (links to the suggested reviews); if I do this, I want to make a convincing case. It's probably not the most pressing problem on the SE network, but some of us feel helpless when such problematic suggested posts occur.

quid

@amWhy I am not sure why "helpless." I would open the post (using the link that is present via the title) in a separate tab and flag from the post. I agree that it is rather inconvenient, but it stills seems like a somewhat reasonable workaround to do what you would want to do.

amWhy

@quid Will that allow mods to access the suggested edit? Or would I need to copy the link to the suggested edit from the review queue, then click on the post, flag for moderator attention, then use the "field" to paste the link to the suggested edit, and why it is problematic?

@quid By the way, reviewers are already taking a lot of time out of their day to review posts, as user-moderators. To suggest that they take a lot more time to follow up with elongated work-arounds to address problematic reviews seems to negate the importance of the time we're already spending. So most reviewers just "accept" crappy suggested edits, or reject them, because all our time is precious, which doesn't seem to deter problematic suggested editors, because invariably, they score.

quid

2:57 PM

@amWhy If you indicate that the flag is about a problem with a suggested edit, we'll be able to locate the suggested-edit without problem. Of course, an explanation regarding the nature of the problem might be needed, but that would always be needed. To avoid any risk of confusion an informal indication which suggested edit could be useful. But usually an "I flag because there was an suggested edit that I find problematic because [...]" should suffice.

amWhy

@quid Thanks! That's good to know.

quid

Regarding the "which" something like "suggestd edit by {username}" will suffice. But in any case almost always there won't be more than one suggested edit.

So just suggested edit is fine.

amWhy

@quid Thanks. You know I'll take time on something like this, but not all reviewers will.

Maybe I should right a meta question "feature request", or simply identifying the situation, so you can answer similarly as you have here, so other reviewers, if they so choose, can do the same.

quid

@amWhy certainly a button "signal the edit to moderators" would increase the rate of reported problems.

amWhy

@quid I'm inclined to agree.

There are some users who get compulsive about suggesting edits only to the likes of $$\lim_{x\to 0} \frac{ foo}{fie}$$ to $$\lim\limits_{x\to 0}\frac{foo}{fie}$$ (ditto for sums and integrals), and those who only edit a series of integrals with $dx$ to $\mathrm{d}x$. I would even be happy if there were a means to respond to those editors that their edits, without any other edits, are trivial; but even when rejected, the most compulsive seem to continue.

quid

3:08 PM

@amWhy It could be useful to write a question what (if anything) to do beyond reject if one comes across problematic edit suggestion since there is a no clear option to signal problems in that queue. I could then answer in the sense above. Workaround but maybe still a button could be added. If you prefer you can also do it alone via a self-answer (or I can do it alone).

amWhy

@quid Either way would be fine to do. Perhaps, a question and self-answer from you would be better received?

About my post, @quid, about "compulsive" edit suggestions, I don't have a problem with a user suggesting one or two such edits. But today I encountered a user suggesting ten edits that only changed formatting of well formatted posts of the first type I mentioned earlier.

quid

@amWhy sometimes meta is hard to predict. If you don't feel like exposing yourself via the post, I'll write it, no problem. But at the same time I think that you should not feel a need to auto-censor yourself. Writing a self-answered post for a non-moderator on procedures does incur a risk though. But if you just ask the question (I don't think for that even much detail is needed), I'd hope it will be reasonably well received.

@amWhy I think many will agree that this is not a good use for suggested edits (or even edits). If it is a persistent pattern we could inform the user regarding the site's expectations. Somewhat paradoxically if there is an instance where the edit goes through, on that post it is possible to comment-notify the (suggesting) editor (even though auto-complete does not propose it)

amWhy

3:35 PM

@quid I'll be happy to write the question. Do you think I should look through the review queue to find examples, if I write the question,, and link them? Unfortunately, that will likely "name" names.

I'm not so worried about pointing out an example of "anonymous user" who vandalizes an edit, but with respect to "compulsive edit fixations", I'd rather not name names, though I could give an example, like I gave to you, here.

quid

3:50 PM

@amWhy I don't think that is needed (or even desirable). You can describe abstractly things you might want to signal to moderators. For the most part I suppose it can be subsumed by recurring poor suggestions from a user and massively inappropriate suggestons.

Maybe that's obvious anyway but I would not describe them as "compulsive edit fixations" or anything like this. Formulations like this tend to create negative reactions.

In any case it is not crucial to describe what you want to signal exactly. All that is needed is to convey some idea that/why you sometimes do not find it sufficient to simply reject the edit.

amWhy

4:36 PM

@quid I would not have done that. I'm sorry I described them that way here, save for that some users engage in repetitive editing of some minor infraction that they perceive, and whose edits do absolutely nothing to change the display of the problem. In any case, I think it best that I not post to meta at this point in time. I have to consider pushback in all of its forms. But thank you. You have pretty much already written the meta post you would like to see posted.

quid

@amWhy would you consider it as useful that I write it up on meta?

amWhy

@quid Yes, I would, but that is up to you and whether you consider it useful to do so.

quid

@amWhy I'll write it up later today. It's a good idea to record this. Thank you for bringing it up.

amWhy

5:09 PM

Can someone help me answer this comment. I know that there are good questions (questions showing context, effort, etc., that are arithmetical in nature. I will look, but I think this is important for the commenter on the meta post he answers to, to see.

amWhy

7:17 PM

Thanks, @quid, for the meta post. Well written, question and answer.

quid

@amWhy thank you. :-)

amWhy

@quid :-)

quid

Since it was added with a little delay I'll mention.

If you would like a feature that allows to flag more directly from the queue, please upvote this comment. — quid ♦ 4 mins ago

amWhy

@quid Great! Thanks!

@quid After my last upvoted comment here, or you can include my last upvoted comment too, I think the comments should be deleted from the meta thread. I've since requested the thread be sent to chat ...

@quid I just mention the "sending the discussion to chat" so you understand that the content of the thread will not be deleted, if some comments are deleted. On the other hand, while I will not further comment on the thread, if TonyK doesn't either, then I have no problem if you want to let it remain.

quid

7:38 PM

@amWhy i removed the comments from the question.

Answer not question.

amWhy

@quid Thanks, @quid.

Sorry for my role in any "escalation" of the conflict.

quid

8:20 PM

@amWhy always, always, trying to get the last word in... :-)

amWhy

8:52 PM