English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

00:54

@MetaEd gah! of course.

@cornbreadninja ancestrally/ethnically.

Matt Эллен

08:14

good morning

David Wallace

Good evening, planter of earworms.

Matt Эллен

:D

My work here is done!

David Wallace

Barrie is now online. The prospect for increasing one's reputational score has just dramatically decreased.

Matt Эллен

True. The only way is to ask questions he won't answer

David Wallace

That would be unprecedented.

Why does youtube keep telling me I'm using IE7, when I'm not?

Matt Эллен

08:27

do you have compatibility mode on?

or whatever it's called

There is a switch in IE8, at least, that turns it into IE7 for compatability testing

David Wallace

Oh, yeah, I keep forgetting that. That must be what it is.

Cerberus

09:18

Hello.

Matt Эллен

Hi!

David Wallace

Oh, hi. I was busy posting on Math. I hate typing in LaTeX.

Matt Эллен

sdrawkcab gnipyt yrT

David Wallace

I'm still not quite sure I got the answer right. I'll have to wait and see if it gets downvoted.

Rajesh D

Hi

David Wallace

09:23

Hello Rajesh.

Rajesh D

whatz up how u doin

David Wallace

Ooh, I was feeling all absorbent for a moment.

Pfft, no that's not a good metric. The obviously-wrong answer has an upvote too.

Hello, @Gigili.

Gigili

Hello.

user19161

10:48

11 zombies in this chat!

user19161

@kit You are very early today!

Gigili

There's an exercise in my book, "translate the meanings into your own language" and I found it really difficult. What should I do?

Matt Эллен

you should translate the meaning into your own language

Gigili

Ah right, silly me.

Matt Эллен

glad to be of service

Gigili

10:56

You're unnecessarily helpful. Thanks.

Matt Эллен

break your task into smaller and smaller chunks until you are at a size where you don't find it so difficult

Gigili

Actually I think they are small enough, just some verbs. E.g. I peeled six potatoes, will that do?

Matt Эллен

"will that do?" is an idiom

Gigili

I'd translate it as "is that enough".

Matt Эллен

exactly

KitFox

11:00

will that suffice?

Gigili

So I'm not supposed to find an idiomatic expression in my own language?

Matt Эллен

I suppose

unless there isn't one, in which case just translate the meaning of the idiom

Gigili

That makes sense, thank you. I'm having a hard time finding those idioms.

Matt Эллен

sorry, I didn't see your "not" there, glad you figured out what I meant!

user19161

@Gigili What's the problem then? No direct translation for do in this case? Since there is no one-to-one correspondence between two languages, one often needs to rewrite things.

David Wallace

11:11

@Gigili No, don't find an idiom. It says "translate the meaning". So forget the idiom and translate the meaning.

Gigili

Ah OK.

Robusto

11:32

Hello.

Gigili

Hullo, @Rob.

Pramod Kumar

Hello Guys

RegDwight АΑA

@Danielδ you missed the joke. We were talking about how the decorations were different.

Und hallo an alle.

Matt Эллен

Hello Hello Hello

Pramod Kumar

I have a small question where should i use amid and amidst

Robusto

11:39

@PramodKumar Use them in sentences. "Amidst" is archaic, so avoid it if possible.

RegDwight АΑA

That's a new one. We only had among vs. amongst, while vs. whilst...

David Wallace

"Amid" is pretty archaic too, methinks.

Matt Эллен

Who vs whomst

Robusto

"be" vs. "best" ... when to use?

RegDwight АΑA

Oh crap. Rob's faster.

I mean, I was at the B, dammit.

Robusto

11:40

Of course.

David Wallace

first vs fir

RegDwight АΑA

I've got the first letter, he's got the rest.

Robusto

You'll always have the first letter.

RegDwight АΑA

I'd have to pay you for the rest anywayst.

Matt Эллен

Use bee when talking about apiaries and beast when talking about X-Men

RegDwight АΑA

11:41

Feb 23 '11 at 15:56, by Kosmonaut

The antonym for bee is pee, btw

Matt Эллен

we don't need no bee pee eye

Robusto

@RegDwightАΑA No, he misspelled antidote.

Gigili

Isn't that the Antony?

RegDwight АΑA

Well it's one Antony.

BTW, what kind of name is An Tony? Shouldn't it be A Tony?

Stupid English is stupid broken.

Matt Эллен

you misspelt wonderful

Robusto

11:44

Deutsch ist auch gebrochen.

Gigili

Deutsch ist Unsinn.

David Wallace

kaputt!

Robusto

Eine sinnlose Sprache! Weh!

RegDwight АΑA

Nederlands is ook gebruikt.

Robusto

Nederlands ist falsch.

RegDwight АΑA

11:45

Nederlands ananas est.

Robusto

They pretend to have words that correspond to other languages, but we are not fooled.

Gigili

They = Reg.

Robusto

Natch.

RegDwight АΑA

Le natch de Figaro.

Robusto

Figaro Newton?

RegDwight АΑA

11:48

Figaro Newton John.

Matt Эллен

lol

Robusto

Figaro Newton John Lennon.

RegDwight АΑA

Figaro Newton John Vladimir Lennon.

Robusto

No interpositions in chat.

RegDwight АΑA

Communism overrides chat rules.

Robusto

11:50

No, communism subverts chat rules.

RegDwight АΑA

No, communism superverts chat rules.

Robusto

No, communism inverts chat rules.

It turns them on their head.

David Wallace

heads.

RegDwight АΑA

I thought vert meant green, not head?

Matt Эллен

All capitalism and no communism makes jack a rich boy

RegDwight АΑA

11:53

Stop swingin' the bat. Put the bat down, Wendy.

Robusto

Capitalism is a capital idea. Communism is a comm idea. Any questions?

RegDwight АΑA

And yet you comm ute every day.

When was the last time you capital uted?

Robusto

The last time it was a capital idea.

RegDwight АΑA

I'm holding 1000 Livan Livres. They put bar codes on their money.

Robusto

We don't need no stinkin' codes to use our money in bars.

RegDwight АΑA

11:55

Robusto

What is that worth, like ten cents?

RegDwight АΑA

50 Euro, if my math is correct.

Robusto

So about ten cents.

RegDwight АΑA

But I'm holding 1000, not 100000.

@Robusto I wish. A weak Euro is excellent for Germany and bad for the Awful Capitalist States.

Xblast time! BBL

Matt Эллен

CU

Welcome back!

KitFox

11:59

Ah!

He's got As!

Matt Эллен

Hi @Kit :D

KitFox

Hiya.

I must have coffee but my back teeth are floating. Yet here I am taking the time to type about it. I think I've got a little chat problem.

Matt Эллен

oh dear

how are you back teeth floating?

have they come out of your gums?

Cerberus

Matt Эллен

@KitFox oh. right. it has nothing to do with teeth...

Cerberus

12:06

I have a few of those.

Matt Эллен

you must be minted!

Cerberus

I've always wondered why they still bothered with using money at all at such inflation rates. I guess rules are rules for Germans!

@MattЭллен I?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus with 50 milliard marks

Robusto

To send a letter.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен I am minted with 50 milliard marks?

Matt Эллен

12:09

@Cerberus minted being slang for incredibly wealthy

KitFox

Well, let me announce that today is the first day in my life that I have exchanged the bottles on a water cooler.

Cerberus

Ahhh.

I see!

Then, yes, I am very rich. I can send two letters!

Matt Эллен

@KitFox you took one down and put one up?

David Wallace

@KitFox No, I won't let you.

Matt Эллен

sounds like hard work. don't they have a person they pay to do odd jobs?

Cerberus

12:10

Water cooler bottles, are those large?

David Wallace

I dropped one once.

Broke the little doodacky on the end.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus such munificence is yours to control

KitFox

@DavidWallace Damn it. Sorry, I just did.

David Wallace

I was at work. This young woman came out of an office and helped me pick it up.

KitFox

@MattЭллен Yes.

@DavidWallace Oh, snap.

Cerberus

12:11

@MattЭллен Indeedy!

David Wallace

@KitFox Literally.

KitFox

@DavidWallace Did you get a cleavage reward?

Cerberus

@DavidWallace And you married her?

David Wallace

@KitFox In spades!

@Cerberus Nope.

KitFox

Hooray!

Cerberus

12:11

Oh.

KitFox

Hooray for cleavage!

Matt Эллен

Hooray!

Cerberus

Haha.

I do agree that that is one of the best things about women, cleavage.

David Wallace

With whom do you agree?

KitFox

I knew a wench once who was not much endowed but damn her presentation was spot on.

Cerberus

12:13

@DavidWallace All of you?

David Wallace

Oh, the one who helped me with the water was about a 48F.

Cerberus

@KitFox Yes, can make a big difference or two!

KitFox

@DavidWallace Geezis.

Cerberus

@DavidWallace F!

And you even remember the number thingie?

KitFox

has flashbacks

Cerberus

12:14

Did you take a look at the inside of her bra?

KitFox

huddles in corner

David Wallace

@Cerberus I politely averted my eyes as she bent forwards. I'm not a perv.

Cerberus

No, no, of course not.

David Wallace

But that wasn't the point.

KitFox

So anyway, I changed the bottle by myself.

And I didn't break the spout.

Cerberus

12:17

Good.

David Wallace

The point was that it was kind of emasculating, to be helped with this big heavy bottle by a young woman. Call me sexist, but there it is.

KitFox

And I figured out how it worked without any instructions.

Cerberus

@DavidWallace Cute.

David Wallace

@KitFox See, Kit, you're clearly stronger than I am.

KitFox

@DavidWallace Well, I imagine it would be, which is why the cleavage helps. Because you could pretend that that was your plan all along.

Cerberus

12:18

Exactly.

David Wallace

@KitFox See above. It's not in my nature.

Cerberus

Just like women who ask you to "open the window".

David Wallace

@Cerberus Perhaps because they're too hot?

KitFox

Look, if you're going to feel all sexist about being emasculated, then you're going to have to learn to be a little pervy.

Cerberus

Perhaps because they think something else is too hot!

KitFox

12:19

When did Cerb turn into Jasper?

Cerberus

@KitFox Agreed. A real man is a bit of a perv.

@KitFox I got up at 6 am.

David Wallace

@Cerberus Yeah, when I was, like 20 maybe.

KitFox

The Plumbing Business Is Not As Glamorous As The Porn Industry Depicts

Chat should one box Onion articles.

David Wallace

@KitFox Is that another one of your girl-on-girl stories?

KitFox

Onion article.

And I don't write "girl-on-girl" stories.

NinjaTurtle

12:22

Hello.

David Wallace

@KitFox That's not what you said last time we were in The Frying Pan together.

KitFox

Yeah, I made that up for effect.

Hello, @Ninja.

NinjaTurtle

Hi @KitFox I came here to improve my English.

Basically, I want to enhance English skills.

David Wallace

@NinjaTurtle But this is the Incomprehensible Room!

KitFox

@NinjaTurtle You've been here before, haven't you?

NinjaTurtle

12:25

Yes, I was here.

RegDwight АΑA

0

Q: Task breakdown vs Tasks breakdown vs Tasks' breakdown

Which one(s) are correct to indicate the division in(to) tasks of a certain undertaking? 1) Task breakdown 2) Tasks breakdown 3) Tasks' breakdown I would like to understand the "why" of it rather than get an Ngram-like usage statistics chart, please.

word-choice

Not this again.

NinjaTurtle

How does it link with enhancement of my English skills?

KitFox

It doesn't.

NinjaTurtle

Thank you.

What about Users Account?

Is it correct?

KitFox

Did you read the question and answers?

NinjaTurtle

12:30

Yes.

KitFox

So then you know the answer?

NinjaTurtle

Is Yours Faithfully Correct?

KitFox

Yes.

NinjaTurtle

Both are correct anyways?

KitFox

Both what are correct?

NinjaTurtle

12:34

User Accounts and Users Account, but w.r.f., question User Accounts is correct.

KitFox

Users account is not correct.

David Wallace

@NinjaTurtle "Anyways" is dialect. If you're not American, you can't say "anyways" and sound correct.

KitFox

@DavidWallace Is that American? I thought it was non-native English.

David Wallace

Not universally American.

There are certain pockets of USA where "anyways" is common.

KitFox

Oh, interesting.

David Wallace

12:35

I have an American friend who says it all the time.

NinjaTurtle

How is it dialect?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Which app is that?

David Wallace

@NinjaTurtle Well, American English has several dialects.

In KitFox's dialect, one does NOT say "anyways". In John's dialect, (that is, my friend that I just mentioned), one DOES say it.

NinjaTurtle

Is Anyways incorrect? or Anyway incorrect?

David Wallace

@NinjaTurtle Are you American?

NinjaTurtle

12:38

@DavidWallace Yes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@DavidWallace I would say nobody considers "anyways" "correct". Maybe acceptable in informal situations. I use it but I don't consider it correct.

And I'm not American

David Wallace

@NinjaTurtle Then you can say "anyways".

RegDwight АΑA

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Informal != incorrect.

Gigili

What the hell, please?

RegDwight АΑA

Incorrect would be "wayanys".

KitFox

12:39

You know what I've caught myself saying lately? "There's [plural noun]." I learned it from EL&U, and every time I do it, I correct myself because it annoys me.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwightАΑA What I'm saying is that it's both informal AND incorrect

NinjaTurtle

Anyways is correct.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox I've caught myself saying that too!

RegDwight АΑA

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 well it can't be that, can it?

NinjaTurtle

Anyways is slangy, anyway is correct.

RegDwight АΑA

12:40

It's not a slip of the tongue.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwightАΑA depends on your definition of "correct" I guess

RegDwight АΑA

Actually I guess it depends on yours.

David Wallace

Well, I've seen "anyways" in dictionaries, marked as dialect. I don't remember off-hand which dictionaries, and I can't be bothered going to look it up now.

RegDwight АΑA

Merriam-Webster

KitFox

Point is, I knew what he meant.

RegDwight АΑA

12:41

In fact, they say it's venerable.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

anyways, I don't think it's strictly American. It's said and heard here in Canada.

David Wallace

@RegDwightАΑA Then I shall vener it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwightАΑA pfft, that just means it's been incorrect for a long time

RegDwight АΑA

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 so?

It doesn't mean it's incorrect now.

KitFox

Hey, who wants to see a picture of my adorable children?

Ambush!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:43

I think I've seen that one

RegDwight АΑA

Is that Winnie?

KitFox

It is.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

(not that it isn't adorable)

KitFox

They were such the picture of perfectly behaved angels yesterday that I special ordered Flame Sagittario for the elder. I can't figure out what to give the munchkin though.

David Wallace

They are indeed adorable.

KitFox

12:44

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 haha. I read that as "no that isn't adorable"

RegDwight АΑA

Thank God God invented rereading.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

NinjaTurtle

0

Q: Anyway v.s. Anyways

Is Anyways correct or Anyway correct? From chat of EL&U: Anyways is slangy, is dialect used by Americans mostly.. But Anyways is informal AND incorrect both. For example: Sorry for missing our trip. ANYWAY/ANYWAYS, let's make another one some time next month. So, which one is correct? ...

american-english

RegDwight АΑA

Dupe.

12

Q: Can "Anyways" be used at the beginning of a sentence?

For example, is it acceptable to say “Anyways, I love Stack Exchange" or should "anyway" always be used?

orthography

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Gah! Munchkins! desires to nibble their cute little faces

David Wallace

12:48

Crap, I misread that! I thought you said "gay munchkins" there for a moment.

3

RegDwight АΑA

Also, this:

KitFox

haha

RegDwight АΑA

9

Q: How did 'anyway' become 'anyways,' anyway?

All of the time I see people use these two words synonymously. For example: Why did he move there anyway? Versus: Why did he move there anyways? I always assumed that there was once just the word anyway that one day had an S added to the end for some reason. Is this assumption correct...

etymology morphology

David Wallace

All of the anyway/anyways questions are GR.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@DavidWallace that's TBD ATM. Though my daughter has already declared that "The first day I'm a grownup I'm going to marry William in Aruba" (William is our neighbour's kid, they are in the same daycare)

KitFox

12:49

Ahahaha.

That's great.

RegDwight АΑA

@DavidWallace the last one is arguably unanswered. Certainly it's not "just" a corruption, but a corruption under the influence of the anyways that has existed for centuries.

You read Shakespeare, you see him use anyways, you pick it up. Something like that.

David Wallace

How many anyways do we really need anyway?

Gigili

I had a nightmare that my life was someone else's game.

David Wallace

Oh, it is. Didn't you know?

KitFox

You weren't supposed to tell her.

David Wallace

12:53

Damn, sorry, KitFox.

NinjaTurtle

Someone else's game?

KitFox

@DavidWallace Whateves. It's fine.

NinjaTurtle

Don't be sorry David.

Gigili

@NinjaTurtle THAT'S WHAT I SAID.

NinjaTurtle

@Gigili Explain it, I didn't get you.

and don't shout.

Gigili

12:59

I shout whenever I want.

I can even shut you down.

NinjaTurtle

Yes, you can shout but why do you want shut me down :P

Gigili

Or shout you down.

NinjaTurtle

:D

Meysam

"I am not the sort of person who..." vs "I am not the sort of people who..."

KitFox

Person.

Unless you are more than one person.

David Wallace

13:03

We are not the sort of people.

I am not the sort of person.

And I am past my bed-time. Good night everyone.

Gigili

I am not the sort of female to torment a respectable man.

@DavidWallace Good night.

Robusto

I am not the sort of torment to respect a personable man.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@DavidWallace bye

Meysam

"...Speaking for myself as an author, I am a big boy and can handle criticism just fine. I can’t imagine most people I know going frothy on someone who doesn’t like my writing, because I’m not the sort of people who inspires..." I read it here: whatever.scalzi.com/2012/07/17/…

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Meysam Doesn't sound grammatical to me

RegDwight АΑA

13:08

I'm not the kind of girl who gives up just like that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

KitFox

@RegDwightАΑA Oh no, no, no.

KitFox

13:33

That was the first song I ever sang at karaoke night.

Mitch

@KitFox But there is 'He is my kind of people'.

KitFox

@Mitch Or person.

RegDwight АΑA

7

Q: Antonym of "confirm" that refers to facts and not opinion

In some cases, the antonym of confirm would be deny. I confirm that the rumors are true. I deny that the rumors are true. However, in a scientific sense, that doesn't make sense to me. By careful observation, I have confirmed that the earth orbits the sun. By careful observat...

antonyms

Is this on the MC or what?

KitFox

He thinks he's people.

RegDwight АΑA

Tons of votes all around, for a gen-ref dupe.

KitFox

13:35

Yeah, it's collidered.

WTF? We just closed it as a dupe of a closed GR question?

RegDwight АΑA

Closed and merged.

0

Q: what is a word that means, "to say in a good way"

what is a word that means, "to say in a good way"? For instance, when writers say that a person was sexually assaulted instead of saying raped. or, saying someone was let go instead of fired. What is that called again?

meaning grammar

KitFox

Oh my head.

RegDwight АΑA

Two 1-rep users. Looks fishy.

Mitch

@KitFox There's plural nouns and there's plural nouns.

No I don't see it.

Gigili

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Cute, adorable, lovely, sweet. I love your daughter.

Mitch

13:39

@KitFox but that's my point, it's a (nominally ungrammatical but accepted) usage to ..um.. use the plural 'people', even though 'person' would be the normal way to do it.

KitFox

@Mitch I wasn't disagreeing.

RegDwight АΑA

7

Q: What term describes a non-offensive substitute for a swear word?

What term describes a non-offensive substitute for a swear word? For example, Battlestar Galactica used "frack" instead of the 'F' word. Another example is the use of "snap" instead of "shit." I think I may have heard a single-word term used to describe such alternate non-offensive words before,...

single-word-requests offensive-language

I would like to close as dupe but the other question is specifically about swear words.

Mitch

@DavidWallace That's like -all- the advice on these no-standard usage questions. Basically it's wrong if you're not native, but totally OK if you are. Is that bigoted? Like it's always cringe-worthy when someone with an accent tries to use slang or profanity.

@KitFox Oh. You got me on meta-pedantic mode. -Everything- is debateable, even that, just to have something to say.

KitFox

sighs OK, I can argue with you if it makes you feel better.

@Mitch, you are wrong. I am right. QED

Mitch

@KitFox I am not going to reply to that.

@KitFox ah... thanks

Matt Эллен

13:49

@KitFox Cerberus is right

23 hours ago, by Cerberus

I am.

RegDwight АΑA

0

A: How do I abbreviate "little" correctly?

yer right 'put an apostrophe in it!!' wtf nope its just 'lil' but it sounds to urban wats wrong wid this 'LITTLE' god... pplz these dayz!

How can we help him?

Gigili

Ltl?

KitFox

Kick him in the nuts.

Gigili

l...e.

KitFox

Don't have to speak good English to understand that.

Gigili

13:53

lel.

Mitch

@RegDwightАΑA increase meds

RegDwight АΑA

I see your lel and raise you a paral.

KitFox

That reminds me of an offensive joke.

RegDwight АΑA

WTF is going on in Denver.

I don't read news for a couple hours, and then this.

KitFox

Geezis.

WTF is wrong with people?

NinjaTurtle

13:57

is back.

KitFox

And who brings a 6-year-old to a movie like that?

Mitch

@KitFox this isn't the offensive joke is it?

KitFox

I wish it were a joke.

Mitch

Shit. Just checked the news.

JSBձոգչ

i heard the news this morning

i'm working assiduously to avoid it now

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:59

> One of his victims has been identified by her family as Jessica Ghawi, an aspiring sportscaster from Texas who was in the Eaton Centre in Toronto moments before a shooting there in June.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…