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12:22 AM
@rcollyer I've never had a SO moderator refuse to migrate a question, but I prefer not to migrate unless there is compelling reason or it is an exact duplicate and we would essentially end up posting all the same answers again. Multiple people requesting the migrate constitutes "compelling" but in that case multiple flags on the SO question should do the trick too.
@MrWizard, your code with the double guards behaves the same to me as before I left
2 hours later…
2:21 AM
hi @Jin
re: the tiling, I know it would be nice if we had a periodic one where you could simply reuse a single tile, but would a full sized one be really that much of a drain on the bandwidth?
@RM it's not about the bandwidth, more about the design.
the background pattern in the header and footer are supposed to be 100% of the browser window, not a fixed image
so out of curiosity, how do you do it for rpg then?
what do you mean?
rpg has a fixed width header image and for wider screens, it just fades into the background colour, no?
or did I get that wrong?
@RM yes, you mean the header art. but that design was meant to be a center piece, not a repeated pattern
2:27 AM
ah, fair enough
if penrose tiles is not possible to be sliced, i think other geometric patterns would do too.
let me show you some i considered using.. 1 sec
on page 1, I think the 2nd one and the 6th one would work for the site
3rd one is nice too
yes, they look very nice. I like the second one (green) and the sixth (red)
@Jin ha!
do you think you guys can recreate them in Mathematica and give me the vector?
I can slice it to a repeatable pattern myself I think
it's always a challenge though. the background tile I made for the Cooking site took me forever to cut :)
yeah, that should be possible. I'll try doing that now
My brain hurt at the end..
cooking.stackexchange.com see the table cloth pattern in the background
2:32 AM
That was a nice touch (although, a tad american centric, I think)
yes. i wanted to make the site to have that old diner feel
I may be afk for a bit. Feel free to send the vector to [email protected] thanks!
Hmm, the bevel of the topbar seems a little...unexpected against the rest of the site to me, for some reason. But I'm only here to meddle, so. :P
@TimStone I thought so too... I mentioned that in my answer (now deleted), but I wasn't sure if I was the only one.
@TimStone hi there, stalker!
the top bar treatment was inspired by wolfram.com/mathematica
2:36 AM
I am everywhere.
although theirs looks a bit weird too
Ah, that's fair.
I used a blackbar first, but it looked too much "copying" theirs. also a dark bar on the top was a bit overwhelming. i went with a white one instead, so the logo would shine more
@Jin Do you have a copy of Mathematica (trial at least?)
@RM I do not.
do they have a OS X client for trial?
2:38 AM
one of the suggestions was to use "cell brackets" that are common in mathematica notebooks. Hold on, I'll post a screenshot of it
@Jin Yeah, it's very pronounced there. I guess they thought they could get away with it with the various other gradients on the page.
@TimStone the lighting/gradient on theirs doesn't make sense to me to be honest. i try to imagine what the side view of the surface looks like..
@Jin Dark would definitely be too much. The white is good, and now that I understand the origins it makes more sense to me. I guess I was expecting it to be flatter, but for the sake of identity it's good.
See the brackets on the far right? Those are the groupings of various "cells", showing the structure of the notebook
Any typical notebook has several of these and is highly recognizable (unless they've been turned off)
I guess one of the suggestions was to have these subtly somewhere... say, for the comments or the post or something like that
I am downloading the trial client now
@RM I'm not sure how a square/rectangle centeric pattern would work with the logo
i was thinking of something more.. hexagon or slightly more complicated. of course, it depends on how each shape is arranged in the pattern.
2:47 AM
Would have been my guess of the side-view, but the text would suggest otherwise :P
3:05 AM
@RM what's the difference between the home edition and the regular one?
There's no difference as far as functionality goes... The difference is in licensing
can I create commercial work using the home edition?
You're not allowed to use the home edition for research/academic purposes/industry, etc
@Jin I think that would be allowed
ok. I'm seriously thinking about purchasing a copy (for Stack Exchange)
Illustrator is pretty poor at creating patterns..
Good choice! :) You know where to ask questions ;)
3:07 AM
hmm yes i know of a site..
oh btw, any of you going to this? wolfram.com/events/technology-conference/2012
There are several employees that hang out here, and some long time/dedicated users that regularly attend these events. I hope SE sponsors some folks to go to the event
I know I would love to go
We will. that's why I brought it up
That is probably the mecca of Mathematica specific conferences
So the perfect place for any publicity
yep. in the past we've sponsored users from other sites to go to confs of their interests.
@Jin That's awesome!
3:10 AM
it'd be a nice place to pass out some nice Mathematica.se swag too.
I'll have our community team make a meta post about this, to see who's all interested in going
That'd be excellent
3:27 AM
Hey @RM ... What do you think about a site duel for a place in the conference? Muskets or sables? The less blood the better. Winner goes to the conference, keeps the loser's rep points and stays alive.
your last duel ended in a stalemate, didn't it? ;)
@RM As I don't remember being killed, I guess all my past duels ended in a stalemate
@belisarius you're not a winner
@RM Is that a question or a criticism?
An observation :P
You duel to win, not to reach a stalemate
Stalemates are acceptable only in Mexican standoffs
3:32 AM
@RM I don't know what a Mex standoff is, but I duel to become Galois
@belisarius Mexican standoff is A-B-C
A Mexican standoff is most precisely a confrontation between three opponents. The tactics for such a confrontation are substantially different than for a duel with only two opponents, where the first to shoot has the advantage. In a confrontation with three mutually hostile participants, the first to shoot is at a tactical disadvantage. If opponent A shoots opponent B, then while so occupied, opponent C can shoot A, thus winning the conflict. Since it is the second opponent to shoot that has the advantage, no one wants to go first. In popular usage, the Mexican standoff is sometimes used ...
@RM I definitely prefer to become Galois ... than to be a radical
I'll give you upvotes for your place at the conference :P
Ok. So I shall not kill you
3:36 AM
matter of interests, obvioulsly
@RM where can I find the questions/day stats for the site? I believe it is falling down ... or at least it is my feeling ..
perhaps I am working too hard these days
You can also find it at Area51, but that will soon be frozen in a few days when we graduate
I think it has a lag of about 1 day or so (in addition to the whatever moving median/mean it uses)
@RM What the heck is Raspberry Pi?
tiny computer
The Raspberry Pi is a credit card sized single-board computer developed in the UK by the Raspberry Pi Foundation with the intention of stimulating the teaching of basic computer science in schools. The Raspberry Pi has a Broadcom BCM2835 system on a chip (SoC), and 256 megabytes of RAM. It does not include a built-in hard disk or solid-state drive, but uses an SD card for booting and long-term storage. The Foundation provides Debian and Arch Linux ARM distributions for download. Also planned are tools for supporting Python as the main programming language, with support for BBC BASIC, ...
apparently it's credit card sized
I made one of those with a motorola 6502 thirty years ago. I can't find it on Wikipedia.
I think Wikipedia is biased
@RM I assume the 'credit card sized' doesn't include thickness.
3:47 AM
@BrettChampion MY credit cards are fat
@belisarius stop going to McDonalds!
@RM I swear I don't oversize!
The plain rectangles for tags in the design strike me as a bit boring. I as wondering about (tag) or [[tag]] or something else. (Maybe even just the rounded ones we currently have...)
@BrettChampion part bracket for the tag might be nice, yes
@RM Stephen Wolfram copyrighted double brackets. You are going to be sued for suggesting it.
3:55 AM
Hmmm, the '(tag)' was supposed to be comments....
@belisarius I'll be filing my Chapter 11 tomorrow
@RM Chapter 11 can't stand a single NKS chapter
@belisarius In which case maybe I'll try to get the company's lawyers to represent me...
@BrettChampion Thats a typical catch-22 situation. You will die with your towel at hand
@belisarius Don't you wish chat had the preview that the main site does? :-)
4:04 AM
@BrettChampion hehe I keep forgetting the formatting commands in all platforms
@BrettChampion Perhaps I remember quite well a few sets from 20 years ago, when I used no more than two or three simultaneously. But now it is crazy
Using 15 or 20 editors every day with different commands sets made me humble
@jin How does this look:
@RM toadish
@jin That should be enough to cut a tile. Let me know the RGB/graylevels that you want and I'll use that and send it to you
ohhh I thought you wanted an opinion on your avatar
@belisarius Maybe we need to sneak an image of Yoda into the site somewhere...
4:10 AM
@BrettChampion Near the toilette?
@belisarius It's new in v9?
Composition[KitchenSink, Toilet]
Toilette[ myDamnNotWorkingFunction]
@RM that looks great! can you send me the vector file to [email protected] ? i can tweak the colors in Illustrator
Time for me to call it a night!
@Jin ok, another thing to note is that this is a first pass and quickie solution, so I didn't remove the duplicate overlapping triangle when tiling. Will that be an issue for you?
It aligns perfectly and doesn't show up, but just letting you know that you might find it in Illustrator
Let me know if that is good
I'll be back in a little while
4:20 AM
@RM it's fine. i can merge all the duplicated overlaps in Illustrator. thanks!
alright then, thanks! :)
Can't wait for the launch!
good night all
4:59 AM
@RM that looks great
1 hour later…
6:19 AM
@rm do you have time to chat?
I missed you again I guess. See you tomorrow perhaps.
3 hours later…
8:59 AM
Annoying not to be able to ask my python questions here!
2 hours later…
10:29 AM
@Jin I was planning to, as I should be in the same state at that time, but I'm not yet sure I can sort out all the bureaucracy (visa etc.) in time.
10:42 AM
@Jin See above for a horizontally repeatable Penrose-like tiling. I can make variations on this or send you a vector version if you like. I didn't pay attention to the contrast and colouring here, I just wanted to get the repeatability right.
@Szabolcs it looks great too - I'd suggest GrayLevel[0.95] and GrayLevel[0.91].
@Verbeia Let me try to make one like that. Part of this was not done in Mathematica ...
@Szabolcs thanks! Bedtime for me now, so good luck!
11:37 AM
Here's the code:
A: What should our site design look like?

SzabolcsHere's my go at creating a seamlessly repeatable background pattern similar to the dart-kite Penrose tiling. Several people mentioned that it would be nice to have a background based on some sort of Penrose tiling. The problem with Penrose tilings is that they're aperiodic while Jin needs a p...

Please "steal" it and make new variations!
12:01 PM
This can be repeated horizontally in a RЯRЯRЯRЯRЯRЯ fashion to create a convincing looking fake Penrose tiling.
Anyone feel like helping me make variations on this tiling?
12:45 PM
Can anybody help me to check the computation?
@FrankScience Which one?
1:16 PM
@FrankScience You need the Math chatroom not this one
@RM I asked there. I think it's appropriate for a computer to do such checking. Working by hand seems very horrible. I have been working on it for about 2 hours, so I don't want to spend 2 more hours in re-computing that.
@FrankScience ok, feel free to ask on the main site when you get stuck (showing what you've done)
1:44 PM
@RM since you have a Mac, too, can you run Mr.W's solution and see if you get what he gets? I get something weird with v.8.0.4 but not v.7, and a comparison would help.
@rcollyer I still get the same that I said yesterday: first time double, second time once
is that the same and only problem some people are getting?
If so, it is still fixed with the something simple but incomprehensible that I told yesterday
@Rojo that's exactly what I'm getting. But, whatever the fix was, it didn't work on my system.
You sure? Want to try it again
It's just, for example, adding Identity@ in this part Block[{$tagMsg = True}, Identity@MessagePacket[name,
2:05 PM
@rcollyer I get the same too
@RM does what I said fix it for you?
@OleksandrR, were you able to find the link?
@Szabolcs that one is great! thanks!
@Jin Do you need a vector version of the uncropped tile?
@Szabolcs yes please
i just tried the image you linked above, it tiles perfectly
oh, I like that a lot :-)
2:21 PM
@Rojo yes, it does
@RM Thanks!
@Rojo fixes it. I'll update Mr.W's answer.
@rcollyer Ok
oh, we need to brainstorm about 404/error/captcha page images..
forgot about those
2:24 PM
@Jin that's nice. While still very subtle, it is complex enough that it catches the eye
I'll post another question about these images
obviously, it'd be great if these images are created in Mathematica as well.
Gotta run.
A little bit flowerish to my taste perhaps but I don't care much
@Jin I suggest: "General::404 : Page not found"
"General::foo:message" (and similar) is a typical error/warning message
@Rojo yes! Here. I mis-remembered slightly... the explanation uses a heap implementation for which the source is given, and on the last slide there is a comment that these same operations are implemented for NIntegrate`Heap.
2:38 PM
@RM Nice idea, I was also thinking of something similar
:) thanks
Most 404 images seems to be large-format, and lighthearted.
The background can be the output from 0^0 with On[] in very light grey, with General::404: somewhere in there highlighted in maroon
@Szabolcs WRI has the \[FreakedSmiley] which I thought was a nice touch.
Or Read[""]
2:47 PM
So many good ideas! Anyone want to mock up an actual 404-png? Unfortunately I have to go soon.
2:58 PM
That Reduce has been Last modified in 5 means that there haven't been improvements in what it can reduce in 8 years or that it's documented input-output syntax hasn't changed since then?
@Rojo probably means nothing has been changed that you need to know about...
I don't recall them documenting improvements to internal algorithms
@RM I hope that's the case
and I hope next version comes with a compilable Fourier
among other 2345433 things I hope
3:16 PM
@Rojo SolveMyProblem[ Method-> "now" ]
@belisarius I like that one, but how about using Courier?
@Szabolcs I am terrible at graphics design.
@belisarius That would make me feel stupid for having spent all this time learning stuff
@Rojo you should've asked on the site instead :P
3:21 PM
@RM I wanted to talk to you about the tagged message function, but I see you've already looked at that. Thanks! The other thing was merely curiosity: I want to know what you get using this on the contents of your /reputation page: % ~StringSplit~ "-- " ~StringCount~ "[0]" // Tally // Sort
heh, I already did that. Let me check again
{{0, 156}, {1, 2}, {2, 3}, {3, 3}, {4, 2}, {7, 1}, {8, 2}, {9, 1}, {10, 1}, {11, 1}, {12, 2}, {19, 1}, {20, 1}, {42, 1}}
Mine: {{0, 145}, {1, 5}, {2, 5}, {3, 4}, {4, 5}, {5, 5}, {7, 6}, {8, 1}, {9,
2}, {10, 1}, {11, 5}, {12, 3}, {13, 2}, {16, 2}, {17, 3}, {20,
1}, {24, 2}, {25, 1}, {46, 1}}
Anyone else want to play? :^)
If only I understood
I'd play
@Rojo go to mma.se/reputation
Copy the contents into a " " in a Notebook and run the line of code below it. It's a tally of the number of votes past reputation-cap by day.
3:26 PM
I got {{0, 146}, {1, 1}, {2, 2}, {3, 1}, {4, 2}, {7, 1}, {11, 1}, {24, 1}}
now, what's that, hehe
Votes past rep-cap by day
@Szabolcs Nice
@Szabolcs something with Exists / Resolve ?
@Jin are you here?
Well, I just did Interpretation[HoldForm@Solve[x^2 == -1, x, \[DoubleStruckCapitalR]], Style[{Style[404, Red]}, FontSize -> 18]], evaluated it, quite the kernel, and evaluated the output cell...
But actually I still like something like General::404 better :)
3:29 PM
I think this question should be closed + deleted... the OP hasn't responded to our comments and he has had the time to come back, read it and ask two more questions.
All of his questions have been of the form "can anyone do this"
@RM agree. It was fun while it lasted.
@MrWizard yep
@belisarius I could use that as my image
A red one
@RM Agree
@Rojo You could get really personal about it tattooforaweek.com/en/Gothic-Letter-R-Temporary-Tattoo
3:34 PM
Jin I wanted to say I quite like the design. (I am anxious to see what it looks like with Verbeia's tiling.) The vote arrows I don't really care for; I find they fade off into the points too much. I think a 1px stroke on the outside might be good. For reference the five point site logo looks more solid and I like that.
@MrWizard so you think the arrows are a bit too "curvy?"
@RM I agree but I'm letting the community act.
@Jin It's not the curve; I think it would look better with the points clipped, or with a narrow stroke as I said. Perhaps I should make a picture instead of nebulous comments.
I think I know what you mean now
@MrWizard See here with the new background
user image
For the captcha page
3:37 PM
@Szabolcs Oh that does look nice. :D
@RM for captcha page, we normally use something light hearted, typically a robot or animal
for example: english.stackexchange.com/captcha english.stackexchange.com/error english.stackexchange.com/404
@RM I think it's a separate image @Jin was asking for (was it a robot on Sketchy?), but if this mockup could be implemented, that would be great. Very good idea! Jin, how can we see other sites' CAPTCHA pages (without doing anything nasty ;)?
@Szabolcs We should use Lena somewhere too ...
@Szabolcs you can go to any SE site, and add "/catpcha" after .com
same for "/error" and "/404"
@belisarius the full version of course
3:40 PM
@Szabolcs Now, that is a man!
@Jin If you're going with the tile that Szabolcs' gave, could you align the pattern so that the logo is centered within the pattern
@RM sure. i'll definitely try.
I know that some sites have the "Ask Question" stand out among the other tabs. Could we have ours with a maroon bg with white fg or something that goes well?
@RM I'll play with it. typically when I'm converting the design to CSS, I make some last min ad-hoc changes
3:46 PM
@Jin This is a bit crude but I hope you see what I mean:
@MrWizard yep, that's what i thought you meant :)
another idea I had for the voting/fav/checkmark icons were similar to the ones I used on our scifi site.
okay; I should have started with the illustration however.
Q: How long was Bill Murray's character supposed to be in a time loop in the film "Groundhog Day"?

aceintheholeI've often wondered how long Bill Murray's character was supposed to be in his time loop before he got out of it. You could count the number of days depicted in the movie, but there are parts that reference that he had spent a much longer time between scenes not shown. It seems that it could not...

@belisarius I remember JM saying he had the original playboy magazine (Lena issue) with him
@Jin those are nice too
3:48 PM
so the icons are contained within a circle. but circle didn't look right with the overall Mathematica.se design to me.
@RM That deserves an adjective
@Szabolcs a Google image search for "lenna" Larger than 20 MP produces an interesting result...
@MrWizard Actually I like the left one (the spiky one) better. For some reason it reminds me a bit of Klingons, but I think that's good:)
@Ajasja That would make a good arrow too (not for us):
4:03 PM
I'm determined to learn how to use Mathematica once I get some free time
so I could create art like this: crowquills.com
i'm a huge fan of gilmore's work
We're here to help. :-)
@Jin Thanks for linking that. I don't think I've seen it before.
4:23 PM
@MrWizard Can't access the image you posted, but I suspect you posted something like: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KlingonInsignia.png
4:36 PM
@Ajasja yes, with a circle in the background
5:15 PM
The first blog post will come out when it's ready or how is that all working? I'm anxious
@Rojo I think the decision is to wait until graduation and then announce ourselves to the world. But I haven't taken an active part in the blog preparation so not sure what posts are being worked on or ready at the moment.
@OleksandrR I see, makes sense
5:42 PM
Finding a googlewhack is hard! (Yes, I am bored...)
@OleksandrR What is a googlewhack?
@Heike something that results in exactly 1 hit on google.
Also, must not be quoted and cannot be too long (1 or 2 words).
e.g.: halloumi anticommutative
6:00 PM
bilgewater "sapphically"
(sapphically has to be quoted because otherwise google finds variant forms; that is allowed IMO)
@OleksandrR VertexOutComponent happy2kprime
@belisarius haha! Okay, not sure that one's valid, but fair enough. :)
@OleksandrR well, I really don't know the rules
"Happy 2K prime" all run together doesn't really count as a "word"
I think both terms have to be actual words in some (human) language.
@OleksandrR Oh ... that is much more difficult
@OleksandrR In Spanish: anticonstitucionalisimamente antinatura
6:13 PM
That one's definitely valid.
@OleksandrR It uses the longest Spanish word :D
6:40 PM
@belisarius antinaturales gives you a googlewhack
@RM About 449,000 results (0.30 seconds) ??
no, I meant antinaturales instead of antinatura in the previous one
the long word should also be there
@RM Ahh ..ok!
7:16 PM
@belisarius I don't think there is a longest word in dutch.
8:08 PM
Why do all you help people? I applaud your generosity, but what pushes you to be so active in assisting?
Also, how'd you guys get so good at MMA programming?
8:31 PM
@Vlad One question per post ...
@OleksandrR that gives three here by the way
@OleksandrR yum
@OleksandrR this
παπατριανταφυλλοπούλου Κλινοσοφιστὴ
One question?
what do you mean?
8:50 PM
@vlad get to know belisarius' special kind of humor
Ok. Honestly? How's that objectively funny?
@Vlad Re-read your chat message. How many questions are there? Why do you ask so many questions in one line? Also, why do you bother in understanding why other people enjoy helping?
If there would be something like objective humor I could make my computer laugh.
@SjoerdCdeVries There you go. Starred
Tickle, tickle
No, doesn't work
8:56 PM
@SjoerdCdeVries try the armpits
It has no effect.
There's a gnat nearby.
@SjoerdCdeVries gnat .... zork ... Are you feeling well ?
You haven't played the info on text adventure Zork apparently, have you?
And the gnat should have been a grue. I forgot that one.
9:07 PM
@SjoerdCdeVries Zork? it was a very old game, if my memory still works
It was. I played it on a commodore PET when I was still at secondary school
hit door with axe
It has no effect
You jump
@SjoerdCdeVries Oh yeah ... I played it on an Apple II
Are you enjoying yourself?
Should I?
You interrupted me. That was Zorks response to two jump commands
9:15 PM
@SjoerdCdeVries Oh! recursively sorry for the interruption
Have to hit the streets of Reykjavik now. GF wants to have a stroll before going to bed.
@SjoerdCdeVries Oh well. Better there than in Panama
see you
9:42 PM
@belisarius back, 't was a short stroll. What about Panama?
9:56 PM
@SjoerdCdeVries Ha! walking in Panama is like taking a hot shower
ha, walking in Świnoujście is like taking a cold shower...
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