English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Vitaly

00:19

1

Q: Exists there a language in which the patient of transitive verbs and the single argument of intransitive verbs are treated alike?

I am somewhat familiar with (not at all learned of)the morphosyntactic criteria by which many languages are classified--such as the system by which the grammatical abstractions of agent, argument, and patient are treated-- and descried of the criteria potency unto a numerosity of classes yborn o...

morphosyntax

> yborn

@Robusto ^ What is that?

Not yborn, the whole question.

Robusto

Sounds like pseudo-intellectual gibberish to me. He may have a question in there, but he's going out of his way to spout what he imagines is erudition, and failing at it badly.

He's a pretentious pineapple.

user19161

@Vitaly Oh, so hard to read.

user19161

@Robusto That double V actually looks like a fat W.

user19161

00:37

@Robusto The repeated use of pineapple in this room has led me to wonder, what fruit represents a non-pineapple?

KitFox

@JasperLoy Richard Simmons?

MetaEd

I have coined a word today. My work here is done.

user19161

@KitFox This is deep. I need to think about what you mean.

user19161

@MetaEd What word?

MetaEd

Gynandrophobe.

Have Fun Slower

00:48

@Vitaly It seems that the question be a joke.

MetaEd

@Vitaly Holy crap.

Have Fun Slower

@JasperLoy pomegranate?

KitFox

What kind of wine goes with ginger?

Probably a sweet white?

Cerberus

@Vitaly Actually, I recognise this style.

It was from this guy at English-test.net I think.

@Robusto He was Asian or something.

We tried to get him to use plain words, but we failed.

It could be someone else, but it looks very familiar.

Have Fun Slower

He's used some very sophisticated sentence structures, but doesn't seem to know that "exists there" is no way to begin a question. So I call April Fool!

Vitaly

00:55

@Cerberus Why on Earth would he use yborn?

KitFox

Seems steampunkish to me.

Have Fun Slower

Have thesaurus, will travel.

Cerberus

@Vitaly Probably found it in a dictionary somewhere.

He used to do that.

Let me see if I can find an old question of his, but I think he was banned there.

Have Fun Slower

He also uses absquatulation. He's reading his dictionary from both ends.

Cerberus

Exactly.

Vitaly

00:58

@HaveFunSlower Was.

A quick Google Books search returns this from 1846.

Have Fun Slower

Pfft! I said "is no way", not "was never a way".

The patient of our ridicule may have done the same search.

Cerberus

I'm not supposed to quote from private conversations.

@Vitaly But look at this.

Have Fun Slower

Different sentence structure. Not the same guy.

Cerberus

This was three years ago.

Have Fun Slower

OK, might be the same guy.

Exists there a way to know for sure?

KitFox

01:03

Not the same guy.

Cerberus

This was a reply to my request that he use simpler language because I couldn't understand a word of what he was saying.

@HaveFunSlower Exists there no way.

Have Fun Slower

Methinks thou makest no error.

Cerberus

Whyever not?

@KitFox Why not?

Vitaly

I agree with Kit.

Cerberus

Thanks @J. M.!

KitFox

01:07

@Cerberus The voices are distinct.

Cerberus

Let me post another answer of his, which was completely off topic, and it is very disturbing. Not that I care, but see:

Robusto

@Vitaly It's an archaic construction, c. mid-1800s. Cf. Walter Scott: "Breathes there a man with soul so dead, who never to himself hath said, 'This is my own, my native land.'"

KitFox

Hence my feeling that the OP is a steampunk fanboy.

Vitaly

@Robusto My point exactly.

Robusto

Whenever folks want to get all pretentious on your ass, they break out the Wardour Street English.

Cerberus

01:09

This came totally out of the blue.

Robusto

englishforums.com/English/WardourStreetEnglish/mgjdh/post.htm

Have Fun Slower

Cerberus, I believe the two passages that you quoted have the same author; but that this isn't the same as the author of the post with "exists there".

Hey, how do you remove stuff like that?

KitFox

You have two minutes in which to click on the left arrow and select delete.

Else flag for moderator, but that's sure to bring unwanted attention.

Have Fun Slower

Right click? How?

Cerberus

@HaveFunSlower Perhaps not.

Hover over the message. An arrow appears on the left.

Have Fun Slower

01:12

Oh,I see. Cool.

Cerberus

And if you press the up key while your text box is empty, you can edit your lines.

KitFox

How would you describe how a nice red wine clings to the glass?

Cerberus

For two minutes.

Describe it? Is that for your story?

Have Fun Slower

viscosity?

KitFox

@Cerberus Yes. Maybe I am spending too much time on this detail.

Vitaly

01:14

@Robusto Would you be able to tell apart Wardour-Street English and something written by a modern historian of English that used authentic eModE syntactic structures and vocabulary?

Cerberus

"Cling to the glass" sounds good to me.

A nice little metaphor.

@Vitaly It isn't a well-defined concept: it just means tacky.

That's why it was named after the street.

KitFox

@Vitaly I wish I were that cool.

Cerberus

The problem with that guy is just that his syntax is broken.

It isn't older English, although he uses a few archaic phrases.

KitFox

His syntax is broken?

Cerberus

Yes.

KitFox

01:17

Maybe I should read it again.

Cerberus

Let me quote a sentence for you.

Perhaps you can parse it.

KitFox

I can read it. The syntax seems fine to me.

Cerberus

> Namely I query pose as to the existence of a language per which the patient of transitive verbs is treated as is the agent of transitive verbs.

"I query pose"?

Have Fun Slower

I agree with KitFox, apart from the "exists there". It's his vocab that's screwey.

Cerberus

What is that supposed to be?

KitFox

01:19

His vocab isn't screwy either.

It's just antique.

Cerberus

"I query and pose", or "I pose a query"?

KitFox

Namely, I pose a query.

Have Fun Slower

By screwy I meant inappropriate.

KitFox

It's not inappropriate. What's inappropriate about it?

Have Fun Slower

How come some of the people here have faded looking symbols over on the right?

KitFox

01:20

They aren't talking.

Cerberus

@KitFox "I query pose" sounds like proper syntax to you?

Can you analyse it, then?

KitFox

@Cerberus It's antique.

But understandable.

Have Fun Slower

Oh, so how long do I have to be quiet for my flower to fade and die?

KitFox

Hence my assertion that the OP is a steampunk enthusiast.

@HaveFunSlower Dunno.

Cerberus

@KitFox Can you find any example anywhere?

Google? Ngrams?

And how would you analyse it?

KitFox

01:22

I don't know. Probably, if I felt like looking for it.

Cerberus

Is "query" a verb, a noun?

KitFox

A noun.

Cerberus

Before the verb, and without an article?

KitFox

Yes.

Cerberus

sceptical look

Have Fun Slower

01:23

How is "I query pose" different from "my heart with pleasure fills"?

Cerberus

"I a query pose", that would make sense.

KitFox

steampunk steampunk steampunk read some Victorian novels.

Cerberus

But not "I query pose".

KitFox

!!!

Have Fun Slower

How do you do italics and bold?

Cerberus

01:24

If you ever find an example, I will be interested to see it.

**bold`**` *italics`*`

KitFox

Do I look like some sort of expert? I'm a little fox for the love of Pete!

I can read it and understand it.

Have Fun Slower

bold italics three *four* **five**

Cerberus

I don't know, you seemed positive.

KitFox

It sounds old-fashioned, but not wrong.

Have Fun Slower

Ah, cool! Again!

Cerberus

01:25

All right.

KitFox

It sounds like someone who is trying to sound learned and old.

Cerberus

It sounds to me like someone who wants to sound formal but doesn't have a feel for the different shades of formality.

Have Fun Slower

I'm trying to work out whether he called Mark Beadles inane in one of the comments.

Cerberus

Haha.

No, his syntax is definitely broken.

user19161

Maybe that's just his natural style? Only the person himself knows if he is being pretentious.

Cerberus

01:29

He seems to be using some kind of translation software where you can choose to replace a word with a synonym—except of course that many "synonyms" don't work in a different context.

Have Fun Slower

Ooh, possibly. But that wouldn't explain "I'd fain betake myself" would it?

Cerberus

> I am somewhat familiar with (not at all learned of)the morphosyntactic criteria by which many languages are classified--such as the system by which the grammatical abstractions of agent, argument, and patient are treated-- and descried of the criteria potency unto a numerosity of classes yborn of this method of linguistic taxonomy.

Vitaly

I'm positive that he has written all that on his own.

simchona

I solemnly recognize this humble allowance of palaver

Cerberus

@HaveFunSlower That may be a fixed phrase in his software?

Have Fun Slower

01:31

Then he needs a new programmer.

simchona

@Cerberus They had software in the 1700s?

Cerberus

@Vitaly Written, in a way, but with heavy help of some kind of software, or the wrong kind of thesaurus.

Have Fun Slower

I thought he maybe meant "feign" till I looked it up.

Cerberus

@simchona No, but software has phrases from the 1700s.

Have Fun Slower

Is that like the wrong sort of swallow?

Cerberus

01:33

First, he seems to use "descried of" as "familiar with" in this sentence (I can understand almost his entire sentence; it is fairly clear what he means). Which I think is impossible.

@HaveFunSlower Quoi?

Have Fun Slower

And all the good things which an animal likes. Have the wrong sort of swallow or too many spikes. - winne the pooh

Cerberus

Secondly, he seems to have replaced valency with potency, which is incorrect; and the syntactic connection between criteria and potency is unclear. Is it meant to be a noun adjective? That is also impossible.

Have Fun Slower

Is the wrong sort of thesaurus similar?

KitFox

@Vitaly I agree.

And I was writing that when my chat blew up.

Robusto

@Vitaly Yes, of course. The modern historian wouldn't use an archaic style except in the appropriate context.

Have Fun Slower

01:35

KitFox - I hope you're not speaking French.

Cerberus

@Robusto I think Vitaly means an historical linguist who is trying to write in Early-Modern English.

Have Fun Slower

I think there's meant to be a comma between criteria and potency.

Cerberus

Then how would you parse it? I don't see it.

Robusto

@Cerberus Assuming it was a competent forgery, it should be indistinguishable from Early Modern English. It would not be hard to see a difference between that and the spoutings of a pretentious windbag.

Cerberus

I think what he means is "the criteria of valency" or something.

@Robusto Agreed.

All the more so since "Wardour-Street English" isn't a specific system of grammar.

Robusto

01:39

You people are thrashing about over a word salad. There is no meaning to be found in that question.

Cerberus

It's just modern English with some tacky words and phrases.

@Robusto I actually understand it, mostly.

It is about linguistics.

Have Fun Slower

He means he saw potency in the morphosyntactic criteria.

Cerberus

Haha.

I really think he means valency.

In his native language, the word may be something like potency.

Have Fun Slower

The question must mean something, as Mark Beadles appears to have answered it satisfactorily.

Cerberus

Yes, Mark interpreted it as I would, except that he understood some things that I didn't.

Have Fun Slower

01:40

Although the fact that he posted a comment, not an answer, may mean that he didn't think he answered it well enough.

Robusto

@Cerberus Well, to each his own. I don't think it worth the effort to parse. If I'm going to spend time on something so occulted and arcane there had better be a reward at the end of it.

Have Fun Slower

We should compose an answer, written in the same style as the question, and post it.

Cerberus

Hahahha.

Yes!

@Robusto I agree. Although the question is I believe fairly simple if you write it down in plain, correct English.

Robusto

@HaveFunSlower Which calls to mind one of Dr. Johnson's musings: "No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money."

@Cerberus Then let it be so written.

Have Fun Slower

Are you offering to pay me?

Robusto

01:43

No. I'm saying I won't work for no pay.

Have Fun Slower

Oh, that's not the same thing at all.

Cerberus

Or let it be as it is, to give us something to mock.

Robusto

We have plenty to mock. We are rich beyond imagining in mockable things.

Cerberus

I suppose we do.

Robusto

Anyway, me tired. Me go to bed. You all do what you wanna.

Cerberus

01:45

Permittance render I thee will unto thy bedde for to go.

KitFox

@Robusto Good night, dreamy dream.

Cerberus

I didn't know you thought of Robusto that way.

KitFox

Well, now you do.

Vitaly

Night.

Cerberus

I suppose he should have seen it coming.

in GIS, 4 hours ago, by Stephen Lead

Maps are so nice.

The best thing since the absolute construction.

Or perhaps it was the other way around.

> I am against regulating net neutrality -- because it's obvious that the telcos will control that process and the regulations will favor them against the public -- but pretending that broadband infrastructure is really "privately owned" when so much of it involved tax-payer-funded subsidies and rights of way is being in denial. — techdirt.com/articles/20120705/10581919594/…

This is a bit odd.

How would telecos control net neutrality if a government enforces it?

Have Fun Slower

01:59

The government will legislate that the telcos must control net neutrality. Nobody will enforce it until an issue arises, then much finger-pointing will ensue.

Cerberus

Why would the government not enforce it?

If only after complaints.

That should work fairly well.

Have Fun Slower

Because they don't understand it.

Cerberus

Well, it would have to be some body of government that does understand it.

The EC, for example, recently presented a report on net neutrality in the EU.

Have Fun Slower

Why would the government create such a body, when they can simply delegate all to the telcos?

Cerberus

Precisely for the reason you mention: because otherwise it would not be enforced?

Have Fun Slower

02:03

Weird. When KitFox's icon and Simchona's icon are side by side like that, the leg-quarter of a cooked chicken appears in the middle.

Cerberus

Hmm.

Oww too late.

Have Fun Slower

Do you think Simchona did that on purpose?

Cerberus

You know what she's like.

Have Fun Slower

No, I have no idea what she's like. How would I know what she's like?

Cerberus

Eh I was joking.

Have Fun Slower

02:05

and I'm taking your word for it that she's a she.

Cerberus

She is.

Pretty girl.

Oops there she is again.

simchona

@Cerberus I came back at the right time.

Cerberus

Kis pretty too btw.

@simchona You weren't supposed to see that!

Have Fun Slower

She kiss pretty? What does that mean?

simchona

@Cerberus : you're cute too. Now what.

Cerberus

02:06

Now I shall have to make some discriminatory remark on women.

@HaveFunSlower What?

Have Fun Slower

Your remark two lines above my last one ...

Cerberus

@simchona By the way, did you see that that Ukrainian guy was back? He was here a week ago or so.

@HaveFunSlower I am lost. I see no "kiss".

simchona

@Cerberus I didn't see him in chat, but I noticed he asked something

Cerberus

@simchona Ah OK.

Have Fun Slower

How else should I parse that remark then?

cornbread ninja

02:08

@Cerberus this one

Cerberus

By the way, live dialogue from under my window: "Are you from Scotland?" — "No, I am from Canada."

cornbread ninja

and hello

simchona

@cornbreadninja Hello

Cerberus

@cornbreadninja Ohhh wait, that one.

simchona

Do we have an even guy/girl ratio for once?

Cerberus

02:09

Haha.

cornbread ninja

hello @simchona!

Cerberus

That was a typo.

Have Fun Slower

So someone else is pretty?

simchona

@HaveFunSlower Kit is

Have Fun Slower

Oh, did he mean KitFox?

simchona

02:10

Mhm.

She changes her name quite a bit, so I usually address her just as Kit

Have Fun Slower

All is clear. Sorry. But "kiss pretty too" is more interesting.

simchona

Me talk pretty one day

Cerberus

Ohh yes I meant Kit. Jesus. I couldn't even read my own line.

cornbread ninja

me talk pretty

WHOA

simchona

@cornbreadninja Jinx.

cornbread ninja

02:11

I owe you the beverage of your choice, @simchona

Cerberus

@HaveFunSlower No, I'm just crazy.

cornbread ninja

brb, must put clay Clarendon lowercase 'a' in the oven

Have Fun Slower

I pretty flower.

simchona

@HaveFunSlower Where are you located? (Too lazy to check profiles)

Cerberus

@HaveFunSlower You pretty slower.

cornbread ninja

02:14

@MattЭллен I stuck it to England best I could.

simchona

@cornbreadninja I stayed inside because of the heatwave.

I was celebratory in spirit.

cornbread ninja

@simchona gah; we should have. It's been 100+ every day for about 10.

didn't start shooting until about 9, and it was still above 90.

simchona

Sounds like Arizona. We're supposed to get that soon.

This week's forecast is basically "meltingly hot"

cornbread ninja

May your humidity stay low.

There would be a lot of dead where-I-live-ians if the humidity were much higher.

consarnit, I broke my 'g'. oh well, it missed the mark anyway.

simchona

You can swear just fine without it

cornbread ninja

02:18

lol

frets about suggestion regarding suspension-circumventer

simchona

@cornbreadninja Where?

cornbread ninja

1

A: What should we do about users circumventing suspensions?

Could the user be hellbanned, slowbanned, or errorbanned, or did these never come to be? The distinctions come about halfway down the page.

oh hooray; it received an upvote

simchona

@cornbreadninja Have another.

cornbread ninja

0_0

simchona

Either way, I'm 99% sure he was back today

cornbread ninja

02:22

I am humbled.

simchona

and because he didn't ask a duplicate question, the account is still there

cornbread ninja

@simchona oingo? no, that was yesterday

oingo boingo

Can't find that one now. Identicon is navy.

ogion

1

idioms

MetaEd

04:35

@KitFox Legs.

Matt Эллен

07:25

@MetaEd damnit I logged in just to say that!

@cornbreadninja jolly good sport, wot

Mahnax

Hi!

Matt Эллен

hi @Mahnax

I just used the "highlights" button. I don't think I will again

Mahnax

@MattЭллен What button?

Matt Эллен

the one on the right

Mahnax

Oh.

I never noticed it!

Matt Эллен

07:36

Indeed

I think it's new today

Mahnax

What does it do?

I see a few squiggles here and there.

Matt Эллен

cuts out chunks of the transcript

Mahnax

Oh, that it does.

Matt Эллен

it could be tailored to each person

Mahnax

Maybe. At any rate, I don't like it.

Matt Эллен

07:42

I guess maybe they've researched some sort of something. Or it's just an idea someone had time to implement. Who knows.

Mahnax

Yeah. I don't know, it seems silly.

Matt Эллен

indeed

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…