TRPG General Chat

Shalvenay

12:19 AM

hey there @Medix2, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

BESW

[wave]

Medix2

12:38 AM

@Shalvenay Hi?

Shalvenay

1:48 AM

hey there @KorvinStarmast

KorvinStarmast

hey, playing in brother's game at the mo ...

BESW

1:58 AM

AIRLOCK is a space opera game about a small crew of adventurers constantly getting into trouble, both on and off their spaceship.

Hot RPG Questions

2:31 AM

7

Q: Can someone with Extra Attack do a Commander Strike BEFORE he throws a net?

A long time ago, I had asked this question about whether someone with Extra Attack can do a Commander Strike AFTER he throws a net. It got answered in the negative (can't give something you can't take yourself). However, a very interesting comment had sprouted from it : can you forgo an attack ...

trogdor

@HotRPGQuestions I'll give ,.... You.... An extra attack,... With a net.... Nevermind I got nothing

BESW

trogdor

Lol

user15026

@BESW snorts

BESW

@Ash As requested by @doppelgreener four years ago (CW: one version has eye-searing colors)

user15026

2:44 AM

Oh wow that eye searing one is....living up to the name

BESW

I should make a version that's eye-searing in less painful ways.

user15026

I'm mostly amazed at how it uses literally all teh colours my brain goes NO THANK YOU to

BESW

Yeah, sorry about that.

nitsua60

@JohnClifford Jeremy Crawford (in conversation) said that >3 attunement, >1 bonus action, and >1 concentration are the 3 things that'll totally "break" 5e. Not saying not to do it, just to know you're out on the crumbly edge if you do =)

user15026

@BESW I'm not mad, I'm mostly just highly amused

Shalvenay

2:51 AM

@nitsua60 I get attunement and concentration, but what's with ">1 bonus"? what's Crawford referring to by that?

nitsua60

allowing more than 1 bonus action.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 aaaaaah. right.

nitsua60

aaaaaaah, on my part: I'd left a word out =)

V2Blast

4:20 AM

Hyper Light Drifter and Mutant Year Zero: Road to Eden are currently free to own if you get them before August 22 on the Epic Games Store: https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/collection/free-game-collection
(After that, Fez will be free from August 22-29.)

kviiri

6:07 AM

It's kinda interesting how bonus action has such breakage potential, given how it's usually seen as a parallel to the "minor actions" and such of earlier editions

Of course there's lots of seemingly minor design choices that alter the impact of getting to have a second "minor action"

Eg. IIRC 4e has lots of "Maintain Minor" powers that would remain active as long as you spent a Minor action each turn. That caps, without any extra actions from sources like action points, the number of maintainable powers to three at a time (since you could translate major and move actions to minor)

But there's a strong design case for not allowing the player to stack that many lingering powers, and imposing a cap might reflect backwards on the design of lingering powers...

In short: complicated beans.

The Oracle

7:08 AM

0

Q: Should I make a generic “Is my homebrew game content balanced?” Question with an Answer of “Probably not, No”?

Something that I’ve noticed happening over and over again is a new user showing up with a homebrew piece of game content (e.g. a race, class, feat, et cetera), and then posting a Question to the effect of “Is my thing balanced” which almost always has an Answer of “No, it isn’t.” It’s to the poi...

discussion homebrew community-wiki

V2Blast

8:45 AM

@kviiri A question related to this:

23

Q: Which balancing issues, if any, would arise from allowing PCs to spend actions on bonus action features?

I understand that RAW, features/spells/etc. that require a bonus action (e.g. Bardic Inspiration or Healing Word) cannot be used with a regular action instead (see this question). However, what would be the long-term ramifications and effects on game balance if I were to instead allow PCs to use...

dnd-5e house-rules actions

John Clifford

Do you think you could balance it with a proviso that any extra bonus actions have to be a different type from the others? (so you could say, cast a bonus action spell and use Bardic Inspiration, but not cast 2 spells)

Which would obviously also prevent you from using 2 bonus actions on the same spell mechanic.

BESW

And this is why I want to make special features reactionary in LLKM.

kviiri

DnD 5e terminology pet peeve compilation lives on: attack vs "Attack action" and "level" are joined by melee weapon attack. Which includes unarmed strikes.

BESW

I use an attack action to make a melee weapon attack with my unarmed strike at the gnoll who is one level above me and has two more levels than I do!

John Clifford

9:03 AM

It's super effective!

Okay, immediately after I wrote that the next ad in my Facebook timeline was for Pokémon t-shirts.

Big Brother is watching.

Sirv

Ah, the old melee attack with something thats definately not a weapon

John Clifford

Didn't Crawford justify that once by saying that if they meant a melee attack with a weapon item they'd say "melee-weapon attack" with the hyphen?

Sirv

Honestly, I thought I couldn't get angry at Crawford rulings anymore

But I was wrong

I mean, they already have a rule which works 'Whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon'

Improved divine smite

Also the source of confusion on whether you can smite on an unarmed attack

doppelgreener

9:38 AM

May 8 '15 at 7:13, by BESW

I... may go a different direction. Also not entirely clear what you mean by some of that.

at the time I didn't understand what you didn't understand about what I said, but now I read what I said just above that and I have no idea what I meant.

John Clifford

The battlecry of the millennial.

trogdor

@doppelgreener oh man archive reading

sometimes I have no idea what the heck I was talking about

John Clifford

It's like reading your own code after being away from it for a month.

There's a dynamic bestiary I was programming that I literally can't go back to in its current form because I don't remember anything about how I was coding it.

kviiri

10:09 AM

I'm again playing a bit of Kaiserreich, an alt-history Hearts of Iron mod set in an alternative lead-up to WWII, except Germany won the first.

It has a lot of history jokes and interesting content, but what amuses me more is there is also a mod called Führerreich which is an alt-alt-history where Germany lost the first world war to the Entente powers.

Writing double-what-if must be tricky

In our universe, the Spanish Civil War was fought between two factions: the Falange and the Republicans. In Kaiserreich, it's fought between three factions: Carlists, syndicalists and the constitutional Madrid monarchy. In Führerreich, it's apparently between four factions --- so I think either we are the outernmost layer or then we're speculative alt-history from a world where the Spanish Civil War was fought by some one faction against itself.

kviiri

10:29 AM

Meanwhile, in other news: You are in a contest. Before you is a series of doors. Behind one of the doors is the main prize --- a brand-new sports car. Behind each other door is a consolation price, that being a goat. Monty Hall administers the contest so that you get to pick any door, and Monty, regardless of your pick, open all doors except two: the one you picked in any case and the door concealing the car if you picked a goat door, a random goat door otherwise. You know this much.

John Clifford

You should always switch, statistically speaking.

kviiri

You pick a door that strikes you fancy. Monty, with much flair, starts opening the doors, one by one, revealing goat after goat after goat. After a while you've lost count of how many goats he's unveiled, and he's already quite far and you can't quite hear him over the sound of bleating goats. You keep waiting, but he just keeps going, opening more and more doors, until he's way too far to see and the only evidence of his continued efforts to open the doors is the constant torrent of goats.

David Hilbert comes in, sees the goats, facepalms and says "I'm never letting Monty film this stupid show in my hotel again."

John Clifford

Is this the real Goat Simulator?

I feel like this is a maths joke I'm not sophisticated enough to get.

doppelgreener

@JohnClifford People get amazed and confused at how much effort I put into organising and documenting my own code when I'm the only one who will ever read it. And that is exactly why I do that: I'm going to take a one month break one day and suddenly I will know absolutely nothing about anything I wrote.

John Clifford

Oh, I organise and document my own code as well, but I'm still capable of going back to it and not understanding my own documentation.

kviiri

10:39 AM

@JohnClifford Hilbert's Grand Hotel is a little infinity-related thought game where you try to fit new people into a hotel where all the rooms are already full. Thankfully, the hotel happens to be infinite, so you can work in ways that would otherwise be insufficient.

I think it was actually invented by David Hilbert

John Clifford

Ahh.

kviiri

To accommodate a new guest, you can simply tell the guest of room 1 to go to room number 2, the guest of room number 2 to go to room number 3, etc --- so each person goes from room n to room n+1, leaving room 1 empty for the new person.

Similarly you can accommodate m new guests by telling each to move to room n+m, for any finite m.

Then you get an infinite busload of new guests, and that doesn't work anymore. But you can tell everyone from room n to go to room 2n, clearing infinite rooms for the new busload...

And if you construct an infinite parking lot for infinite buses, each carrying an infinite number of passengers... you can still use tricks like powers of primes to accommodate guests :P

@JohnClifford There's an interesting variation of the problem where (returning back to three doors) Monty always opens a door but picks randomly from both remaining doors --- even when it could be the car --- but happens to pick a goat. Despite being a superficially identical situation to the classic problem formulation, you are back to 50/50 for switch/stay.

John Clifford

Probability is stupid.

Joel Harmon

11:03 AM

@JohnClifford I believe the rules already prohibit casting more than one spell per turn.

John Clifford

The rules say if you cast a bonus action spell the only spells you can cast with your action are cantrips with a cast time of "Action" but giving additional bonus actions would circumvent that.

Joel Harmon

I suppose I'd have to dig up the actual rule on that, but it could well be true.

kviiri

It is true. It's one of the more confusing 5e rules.

user15026

@kviiri Hahaha I like that I understand this

kviiri

@Ash :)

Joel Harmon

11:09 AM

@kviiri The fact that I understood this and laughed made me reevaluate some life choices. Turns out I'm still happy with the result.

John Clifford

B o n u s A c t i o n
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You
must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell,
provided that you haven’t already taken a bonus action
this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same
turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.

Okay, so that would cover additional bonus actions as well, you're right.

"haven't already taken a bonus action" would lock down using any additional bonus actions as well.

Joel Harmon

Curiously, that means if you did have multiple bonus actions, you'd be required to cast a spell first or not at all.

kviiri

@JoelHarmon ^_^

Medix2

12:47 PM

@JohnClifford Yes in the Sage Advice Compendium it states: "Here’s a bit of wording minutia: we would write “melee-weapon attack” (with a hyphen) if we meant an attack with a melee weapon."

The bonus action casting rule is... annoying. Casting misty step means you now can't cast haste on your turn (or vice-a-versa). And then Action Surge lets you cast two levelled spells as actions but if one of them was a bonus action you couldn't.

I just use "You can't cast multiple non-cantrip spells on your turn. Reactions do not interact with this, and using Action Surge allows you to cast one additional non-cantrip spell"

John Clifford

Couldn't you just cast the non-bonus action spell before the bonus action one?

You can cast Haste then Misty Step, no?

Medix2

1:02 PM

I'm not sure what you mean, but does this mean something: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/47421/…

Also of note the books don't actually use "melee-weapon attack" they use "attack with a melee weapon". This is shown in the Great Weapon Fighting Fighting Style

John Clifford

I'm not sure I agree with wax eagle's answer. I always interpret restrictions on using actions as considering their constraint at the time you use them, not retroactively.

Medix2

Oh so do you also rule that way in regard to nets

8

Q: How do nets work with Extra Attack?

Part of the net's "special" property states: When you use an action, bonus action, or reaction to attack with a net, you can make only one attack regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make. There are already questions here and here regarding attacks made using a net. I alread...

dnd-5e class-feature weapons attack

John Clifford

I've never had to rule on a net but probably would, yeah.

Rubiksmoose

@JohnClifford It doesn't appear so. A search of all his Tweets doesn't bring up ever using a hyphen between melee and weapon. Also I also don't think it ever occurs in the rules correct?

Medix2

It never occurs in the rules. I have a table of all varieties of attack types and what features use them and which wording

John Clifford

1:06 PM

Like, I would interpret "You can’t cast another spell during the same turn" to mean another spell after the one that you cast with your bonus action.

Medix's line from the Sage Advice Compendium is the one I was thinking of.

I dunno, "I can't use this action because I retroactively met its stated restriction" feels off to me, because I don't see how you can apply a restriction to an action you haven't actually taken.

Medix2

It's certainly odd

But to me having a strict ordering is also odd

John Clifford

Also if that were how it were meant to be interpreted wouldn't it say "You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action or cast a non-cantrip spell this turn."?

Medix2

That wording would allow you to do the bonus action first

John Clifford

Apparently that's how it's meant to be taken though, so meh.

Medix2

I tried coming up with a better wording and couldn't find one that kept the interactions with Action Surge

John Clifford

1:10 PM

I've been allowing my players to cast normal spells with their action and still use bonus action spells.

Medix2

That sounds scary

Rubiksmoose

@JohnClifford I mean it's not going to break you game likely too much, but it does give spellcasters a decent bump in power.

(as far as I know anyways, maybe there is some breakage there)

John Clifford

Honestly I feel like that's warranted, since spellcasters are initially very squishy. But I'll keep a closer eye on what they're doing just in case. It hasn't broken anything yet so far.

Medix2

divine word and an upcast fireball on the same turn...

Rubiksmoose

I try not to mess at all with spellcasting economy because I think that is one of the areas where there is a lot of breakage potential.

Medix2

1:13 PM

The only restriction I really don't like is that casting misty step means you can't cast shield on that same turn

kviiri

1:30 PM

@Medix2 Is there something I'm missing --- woudln't you usually cast shield on someone else's turn anyway?

And as an aside: I've always interpreted "you can't cast another spell during the same turn" to apply regardless of ordering.

Medix2

@kviiri You could provoke an opportunity attack on your own turn, but if you had already cast misty step you couldn't use shield

kviiri

@Medix2 Ah, right. Interesting edge case there

JohnP

This is one of those mornings when you really need to yell at someone and can't

John Clifford

1:54 PM

You can yell at me if you want.

goodguy5

2:08 PM

🎵You can yell if you want to
You can leave your job behind
Your boss is dumb
and if they're that dumb
then they're, no boss of mine. 🎵

Rubiksmoose

hahaha

Hot RPG Questions

3:27 PM

11

Q: Does the Haste spell's hasted action allow you to make multiple unarmed strikes? Or none at all?

The Haste spell states that you can take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action. (emphasis mine) But we know that "weapon attacks" and "melee weapon attacks" are different, since weapon attacks require the use of an actual weapon, while unarmed ...

dnd-5e spells attack actions unarmed-combat

Medix2

3:39 PM

@BESW When you said "I use an attack action to make a melee weapon attack with my unarmed strike at the gnoll who is one level above me and has two more levels than I do!" what do the two "levels" mean?

Xirema

4:23 PM

So I've been pondering that "What is a Barbarian's Spellcasting Modifier" question, because there's two scenarios where a character's Spellcasting Modifier can be extremely important, and that's when making the Spellcasting checks for Counterspell and Dispel Magic. Now, normally, both those spells auto-succeed against anything level 3 or lower, which both of the Totem Warrior Barbarian spells are. But are there any effects like those two spells that don't have that third level floor?

Someone_Evil

For both cs and dm the check is made by the caster of that spell, not the barbarian

Xirema

Oh, wait, scratch that, those spells only care about the level of the spell they're targeting, right? Not the save DC of the person who cast them?

In that case I think they're off the hook then.

Medix2

The only thing that cares about another person's spellcasting ability (modifier) is the Arcane Trickster's Spell Thief feature

Xirema

For some reason I keep thinking that when you Counterspell a 4th level spell, the DC for your check is equal to the target spellcaster's Save DC, but that's not actually true, is it?

Medix2

Oddly enough, I keep thinking that too

Xirema

4:27 PM

It's just 10 + the level of the spell, IIRC.

Someone_Evil

Yes

Xirema

> Immediately after a creature casts a spell that targets you or includes you in its area of effect, you can use your reaction to force the creature to make a saving throw with its spellcasting ability modifier. — Arcane Trickster

Okay, that was the kind of thing I was looking for.

The Barbarian doesn't have a Spellcasting Modifier; so what kind of save would they make?

Commune with Nature has an extremely large Area of Effect (3 miles), which would include the Trickster, so there's no doubt they could steal it.

Someone_Evil

The spells range is only self though

Xirema

@Someone_Evil Yeah, but lots of area-of-effect spells have a range of self.

Medix2

It's gone over in an answer.... one sec

Someone_Evil

4:31 PM

> the spell gives you knowledge of the land within 3 miles of you.

That doesn't mean it targets that area, nor affects it in any way

Medix2

"If you don't have a spellcasting ability - perhaps you're a rogue with the Use Magic Device feature - your spellcasting ability modifier is +0 for the item"

Speak with beasts can target a rogue who has been shapechanged

Xirema

@Medix2 Yeah, but that's for using magic items.

@Medix2 ^

Medix2

Oh it is?

Well then... wouldn't it just be this question

29

Q: What is the spell attack bonus and spell save DC of a Thief using the Use Magic Device feature?

A 13th level Rogue with the Thief archetype has the following feature: Use Magic Device By 13th level, you have learned enough about the workings of magic that you can improvise the use of items even when they are not intended for you. You ignore all class, race, and level requirem...

dnd-5e magic-items rogue spellcasting thief

wrong one...

Xirema

7

Q: What is the spellcasting ability of a Barbarian Totem Warrior?

At third level, a Barbarian can take the Path of the Totem Warrior, gaining (among others), the following feature: Spirit Seeker Yours is a path that seeks attunement with the natural world, giving you a kinship with beasts. At 3rd level when you adopt this path, you gain the ability to ...

dnd-5e magic-items spellcasting

^ Is the one I'm looking at.

Medix2

7

Q: Spell save DC on a wish spell cast from a magic item

So I got a luck blade from my DM and I am trying to cast dominate person on someone at 8th level. What would the saving throw be for the person it is being cast on. Wish says that any spell at 8th level or lower can be immediately cast and doesn't state it has to be at its lowest casting form. Wo...

dnd-5e spells magic-items saving-throw

I think it would follow the rules of the question I just linked

Xirema

4:34 PM

@Medix2 Those are all specifically the rules for using a Magic Item, like I said.

For an Arcane Trickster stealing a spell from a Barbarian, no items are involved.

Medix2

No casting wish from a magic item is no longer connected to the item

Xirema

@Medix2 Mmmmm. The answer to the question you linked still references the rules for Magic Items.

Medix2

Perhaps they aren't duplicates... What do you do when it says to add something you don't have hmmmmm

Xirema

I mean, as DM, the easy answer is to just say "Make a straight d20 roll as your saving throw, no bonus or proficiency".

Like, that's almost certainly the intent.

Medix2

I'm currently wondering if a who Fighter took the Magic Initiative Feat and then cast wish through an item to duplicate a spell it knows can the Fighter use their ability score modifier...

Xirema

4:37 PM

@Medix2 Magic Initiate gives you a spellcasting ability.

Medix2

But it only gives you one "for those spells"

Xirema

@Medix2 True, but I think it says the same for the individual classes that gain spellcasting too.

Medix2

Yes but isn't there already a question on that?

Xirema

> Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your sorcerer spells. — Sorcerer

Medix2

Now I wonder if anybody can use their modifier for duplicated spells not from their class....

Xirema

4:40 PM

@Medix2 If it's produced through a magic item, then they can. The Magic Item rules specifically say so.

Medix2

wish is kinda a mess I suppose. Seeing as how what school the duplicated spell belongs to is disagreed upon

But what if they cast the spell normally

Xirema

@Medix2 What other way would they gain the ability to cast it?

Class: Has a spellcasting modifier.
Magic Initiate: gives you a spellcasting modifier.
Race: has a spellcasting modifier.
Magic Item: Use the Spellcasting modifier for any class that has one; or +0 if you have none
Ritual Casting: gives you a spellcasting modifier
Totem Warrior Barbarian: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Medix2

I can rephrase my point:
Does a Wizard casting *wish* normally to duplicate a Sorcerer-exclusive spell use their modifier?
Does somebody with Magic Initiate casting *wish* to duplicate a spell they know use their modifier?

Xirema

@Medix2 Yes.

Medix2

But Wizards specifically say they can only add the modifier to Wizard spells

Xirema

4:44 PM

@Medix2 Wish is the spell they're casting. Wish is having the effect of duplicating a non-wizard spell—but Wish is still the spell that was cast.

Medix2

Actually no?

15

Q: Does duplicating a spell with Wish count as casting that spell?

Premise This question was inspired by the line of reasoning in this answer. There are a number of spells that have wording "when you cast" or "as you cast" included. Specifically, some effects have predicates like "when you cast" in order to come into effect. If wish does not count as castin...

dnd-5e spells wish

Actually, your own answer is there

@Xirema The spellcasting section only gives your wizard spells a save DC, not any spells you cast

Xirema

To be fair, my answer to that question is actually pretty wishy-washy as to whether a spell is actually "cast" or not by Wish, it just establishes a bunch of reasons why the spell not being cast would be weird. =P

I guess this is one of those scenarios that could be tacked onto the list.

Medix2

Well I guess I know what question I'm asking XD

"Can an Evocation Wizard that casts wish to duplicate chaos bolt add their intelligence modifier to the damage?"

Xirema

> So in one way, it might come down to how you interpret this paragraph. Under the latter interpretation, then yes, a spell duplicated by Wish was 'Cast'. There wouldn't be any way to resolve its effects otherwise.

Under the former interpretation... Well, unless someone finds the smoking gun I missed, then it comes down to what your DM says. — Me, I said that

Yeah, that answer is very non-committal. =P

I think I've argued in the past that it's entirely possible that a spell produced by Wish has never been cast—and the only reason I don't rule that way (aside from the fact that Wish does not exist in my campaigns) is the fact that it leads to too much mechanical weirdness and breakage of balance.

Medix2

"wish does not exist in my campaigns" Absolutely agreed on that rule

goodguy5

5:07 PM

I've never had players get to wish level

so....

Rubiksmoose

5:23 PM

@goodguy5 Nor have I. Got within a few levels though

goodguy5

I think my first real game we were all rotating out gm and I think we basically fast tracked directly from 17-20 in pathfinder

Xirema

In the campaign I'm not DMing, there's a pretty good chance that we get to level 17, but none of us can learn the spell Wish, so....

Rubiksmoose

5:43 PM

Heh. So close and yet so far.

V2Blast

6:23 PM

New Barbarian and Monk UA is out for D&D 5e: dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/barbarian-and-monk

> Two classes, the barbarian and the monk, discover new playtest possibilities this week. The barbarian receives a new Primal Path feature: Path of the Wild Soul. Meanwhile the monk gains a new Monastic Tradition feature: the Way of the Astral Self. We invite you to give these subclasses a read, try them out in play, and let us know what you think. Watch the D&D website for a new survey and let us know there what you think of today’s Unearthed Arcana.

Direct link: media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/UA-WildAstral.pdf

Xirema

23 hours ago, by Xirema

So a Way of the Astral Self Monk, at level 17, can get 6 attacks per turn, made using Wisdom as their Attack and Damage modifiers, and whenever a creature dies near them, they gain 5 (their Wisdom Modifier) Ki Points back. The feature that lets them do this costs 10 Ki points and lasts 10 minutes.

It's a bit nuts.

V2Blast

Ah, didn't see it was already posted

tbf at such high levels the game's already broken anyway :P

but yeah

Xirema

To be fair though, I think Wizards of the Coast are on the record as saying they want newer Monk subclasses to be much more powerful than the base class is, because they feel the base class isn't strong enough.

MikeQ

6:50 PM

@Xirema Meanwhile, the ranger continues its identity crisis, with only a pet animal companion for comfort...

> "Don't worry buddy. One of these days they'll figure out what to do with us."

Rubiksmoose

7:03 PM

@MikeQ :'(

David Coffron

7:13 PM

@Xirema Ummm... monks are not weak... Stunning strike is broken

And Flurry of Blows crushes the encounters that Stunning Strike isn't broken (by spreading out damage so efficiently without wasting damage like with smites)

nitsua60

ENWorld relaunch e-mail:

> EN World is one of the oldest tabletop roleplaying game news sites and communities on the internet, having launched in 2019 as a fan site for Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition. All these years later, the forums are still buzzing and the news is still flowing!

V2Blast

> launched in 2019

wat

nitsua60

I've been there: press the magic button to launch thousands (if not tens of thousands) of e-mails and seen the typo as the nerve impulse crept down my forearm.

V2Blast

the ~~face~~ finger that launched a thousand ~~ships~~ emails

Rubiksmoose

@nitsua60 Time travel confirmed?

Xirema

7:32 PM

> I'm not a very smart person. [...] I remember once I went to mail a letter and accidentally put the sunglasses in my other hand into the mailbox, and I just tried to quietly erase the memory of watching the sunglasses fade out of view, and then drop from my hand, as my brain at the very last moment went "........ hang on." — HBomberguy

Hot RPG Questions

7:45 PM

5

Q: Does Reckless Attack work with Multiattack when wild shaped?

A druid/barbarian turns into an animal with multiattack and each of the attacks count as melee weapon attack. Reckless attack states When you make your first attack on your turn, you can decide to attack recklessly. Doing so gives you advantage on melee weapon attack rolls using Strength ...

dnd-5e druid multi-classing barbarian multiattack

inthemanual

8:30 PM

nobody saw that right?

MikeQ

@inthemanual I saw it.

inthemanual

oh no

such embarassment

Carcer

saw what?

(just kidding. I saw it)

V2Blast

what am I seeing

MikeQ

It was so embarrassing I dare not describe it. But believe me, it was seen.

V2Blast

8:36 PM

🤔

inthemanual

I typed a "welcome" comment as an answer :o

Rubiksmoose

Curses, Darth Pseudonym beat me to the answer lol. I'll leave mine up though in case the alternate wordings help.

inthemanual

very embarrassing for a nearly 10k rep user.

Rubiksmoose

I guess that is what I get for fixing up the question first.

Anyways, taking off. Have a good weekend folks. :)

V2Blast

9:01 PM

lol

BESW

9:24 PM

@Medix2 The "one level" is physical position; the gnoll is one floor higher up in the structure. "Two levels" are game mechanics; the gnoll has so much more XP that they've leveled up twice more.

Medix2

9:43 PM

Oh so just normal English doing things

Hot RPG Questions

9

Q: What is the spellcasting ability of a Barbarian Totem Warrior?

At third level, a Barbarian can take the Path of the Totem Warrior, gaining (among others), the following feature: Spirit Seeker Yours is a path that seeks attunement with the natural world, giving you a kinship with beasts. At 3rd level when you adopt this path, you gain the ability to ...

dnd-5e class-feature barbarian spellcasting

BESW

@Medix2 Yup! It was in response to Kviiri pointing out another way that D&D's choice of mechanical terms creates unnecessary homonym confusion above and beyond English's normal amount.

@Blits Hi!

Blits

Hello

Saw someone link to "our curated list of forums" which entertainingly points back here first

BESW

10:00 PM

[grin] Yeah, it's a bit weird, and the regular link is kinda buried.

The Stack Exchange wants people to focus on mainsite content.

Blits

The amount of disdain for TheRPGSite in that response is making me curious

BESW

Anyway, welcome! Feel free to chat or lurk. The weekend's starting up so activity will be a bit quiet.

I'm unfamiliar with TheRPGSite, but I know OSR communities have chronic trouble with people who think the racism and sexism that was more blatant and unapologetic in some 70s/80s material, is necessary to the old-school experience.

Blits

Thanks. I'm just winding down the work day anyway

Black Spike

10:16 PM

this is me, as usual:
Coding Coding Coding
Though my fingers' swollen
and forgetting semi-colons,
Raw-Code!

Shalvenay

hey there @Blits, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

Blits

Wow. Okay yeah there's a lot of negativity there. No wonder its listed so begrudgingly

BESW

10:40 PM

On the bright side, the OSR has movements like SWORDDREAM!

Blits

The actual submissions are much less strange and political themed than the initial description

That new Barbarian UA seems more annoying than anything until you hit level 14

KorvinStarmast

@Blits yes, built to be annoying. OK, I think they are running out of ideas. Give mearls a vacation, creative burnout has arrived.

Blits

The 5e class system doesn't have enough moving parts for him. Mearls has a bunch of great ideas, but adapting them into the format of 1 feature every 4 levels or so is exhausting

KorvinStarmast

10:55 PM

Mearls never met an idea that he could balance. but he has a lot of interesting ideas.

Blits

He's got infinite enthusiasm (especially for character creation), but i don't think he's particularly in love with the new push towards streaming content and MTG worlds

KorvinStarmast

@Blits My lack of interest in MTG knows no bounds.

Blits

@KorvinStarmast Changelings and characters with the Inability to climb ladders were the extent of ocntent i've looked at

KorvinStarmast

I'd rather WoTC had not chosen to cross the streams, but I suspect that hasbro forced it. But I'll doubtless never know.

BESW

I'm working on streamlining the community-building rules from Bubblegumshoe for use with an Aspects-only Fate chassis.

inthemanual

11:07 PM

can you summarize those a bit?

and would your relationship with the community and/or members or parts within it need to be defined by an aspect?

BESW

It's not unlike Fate's Faces/Places setting design, but inside out.

The core of the community is the NPCs who like, love, and hate your Sleuths. Each of them gets a trouble, a short description of the nature of the like/love/hate, points invested in the relationship, an ability (if like/love) that the Sleuth can access because of the relationship, and a location they're usually found.

Town creation hinges on placing those NPCs' locations and their relationship to each other, the school, and the Sleuths' home turf and hangout. In the process, adversaries and authorities with whom the Sleuths do not have mechanical relationships, are defined.

As locations are put on the map, you're also defining thresholds: the world of kids is divided into free zones where anyone can go easily, the adult world where you don't belong without a good reason, and risky areas where you need particular knowledge or skills to be safe.

One of the big advantages of having a like/love relationship with an adult is that it can get you access to their part of the adult world--if a teacher particularly likes you, they might let you into the teacher's lounge; or if your dad is a file clerk at the mayor's office, you might be able to hang out there without being watched too closely.

inthemanual

My favorite thing about BGS isn't really any of the mechanics or tools it provides but the simple idea it's based around. That the players will always successfully find a clue, it's how they choose to interpret it and use it that drives the story and investigation further

V2Blast

It seems like a cool system

inthemanual

Always moving forward, just giving players the agency to choose how.

BESW

Aye, that's the core Gumshoe conceit and it's a very solid one.

inthemanual

11:20 PM

I hope to actually run a successful game of it at some point

BESW

I'm honestly a bit baffled that Bubblegumshoe is (so far as I can tell) the only non-speculative Gumshoe game so far.

inthemanual

non-speculative?

based on the supernatural?

BESW

All the other Gumshoe games have elements of speculative fiction: superpowers, aliens, magic, etc.

inthemanual

ah

The story I was planning to run in BGS was actually speculative. :P

BESW

Where's the Gumshoe drift for CSI or Miss Marple or Easy Rawlins?

inthemanual

11:23 PM

or National Treasure

BESW

BGS does have speculative fiction drifts and I'm not against speculative fiction in my mysteries. I just think it's kinda weird that there aren't any Gumshoe games for that genre.

inthemanual

does a secret treasure map on the back of the declaration of independence count as speculative fiction?

BESW

I think Ben Gates' ability for his stream-of-consciousness brainstorming to always be right is as magical as Sherlock Holmes'.

inthemanual

stream-of-consciousness brainstorming by players can always be right if the GM has the right kind of "just go with it" attitude

BESW

More seriously, yes, National Treasure is perhaps one of the best examples of English-language contemporary magical realism.

inthemanual

11:36 PM

Perhaps the idea of a more grounded gumshoe game is a bit too real? So much of RPGs is about escapism, so something that feels more like it could really happen might not quite get the bite that something more out-there would

BESW

Maybe? But if so, that's a needlessly narrow version of escapism and I hope game devs can break out of it.

inthemanual

I think you mentioned that there's a bit of a historical reason for the adherence to the supernatural, and especially to a more horror-focused supernatural within Gumshoe games.

Blits

@BESW I agree. I think fantasy is frequently tied in with RPGs, but realism offers an additional layer of immersion if done well

BESW

@inthemanual Aye, that's definitely a thing. But it's not like Gumshoe is the only possible mystery-solving engine either, and to the best of my knowledge there is no Sherlock Holmes RPG at all and that absolutely baffles me.

@Blits I prefer engagement to immersion, but yes. Being a smart crime scene investigator with a team of supportive professionals who are also my friends, in a big flashy city with a seedy underbelly, sounds like fun escapism to me. And also like CSI: The RPG.

I wonder if the "mystery RPGs need speculative elements" trend is related to that "speculative fiction shows need to be about solving crimes" trend in television.

Hot RPG Questions

9

Q: Is there a way, other than having a Diviner friend, for a player to avoid rolling Initiative at the start of a combat?

I've been starting to theorize the following concept: a player who would... never... roll dice... ever. Not in combat, not elsewhere. No dice. Literally. But I have come across a major obstacle: Initiative. Now, I've been thinking: perhaps that roll-averse player could get himself a Diviner frie...

dnd-5e character-creation optimization dice initiative

inthemanual

11:44 PM

What speculative fiction isn't about solving crimes?

On TV or otherwise?

Blits

Characters investigating their supernatural origins?

TV just trends in the "crime" direction because it creates an episodic format that doesn't lose viewers if they miss an episode

BESW

Doctor Who, Star Trek, Star Wars, Steven Universe, Lumberjanes, Sixth World, Broken Earth, Murderbot, Binti, Animorphs, Sapphire & Steel, iZOMBIE (comic not TV show), Prey of Gods, Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, Prydain Chronicles, The Dark is Rising Sequence, Young Wizards, The Long Way to a Small Angry Planet, Labyrinth...

I'm making it harder on myself and also not listing anything where the main story is "committing crimes". And still: almost every kaiju property; almost every speculative fiction romance property; the Toy Story franchise; most of the Transformers franchise in TV, film, and comics...

Blits

I'm not familiar with the genre, but are there no Noir RPGs?

BESW

11:59 PM

Most noir RPGs throw in speculative fiction elements as well.

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