TRPG General Chat

You'll never know ! XD

@Ash You may like some of the other Guardianals, too; they're a subclass of D&D angel-type creature, and each kind is based on a different animal. For example, the archivist Guardianals:

Not the last one though

The Hound Archon was a different thing right?

12:09 AM

@trogdor Archons are always Lawful Good; Guardinals are always Neutral Good.

Ah

But they are always celestials right?

Both types I mean

Yes, they're two different groups of celestials, hailing from different parts of the Goodness cosmology.

Both groups serve the interests of any or all of the gods which share their alignment.

Mk

@BESW -- which edition are Guardianals from?

@Shalvenay I first encountered them in 3.5.

12:13 AM

@BESW kk

Ender Look

Someone has some time and is willing to read a question? I just post this question but it's quite at the limit of a QA site style so I want to know if it's ok or shall I remove it (I would rather prefer remove it before the downvotes and not after them). By the way, why we don't have a sandbox as worldbuilding SE has?

Q: Should there be a sandbox for question development?

@Shalvenay Wikipedia says AD&D 2e Planescape.

3

The Worldbuilding metastack has a "Sandbox for Proposed Questions" where questions can be workshopped after a fashion to get them into a form where they will be less likely to be closed for opinion, inclarity, et cetera. More than in any of the other stacks I participate in, I see questions here...

discussion

Ender Look

@BESW Thanks, I should visit more Meta on my own and not only the link which people post in chat.

Hot RPG Questions

12:30 AM

7

Q: As a small race with a heavy weapon, does enlage remove the disadvantage?

The heavy property is described as A heavy weapon’s size and bulk make it too large for a Small creature to use effectively. And in the enlarge spell it states the following The target's weapons also grow to match its new size. This implies that the weapon grows along with the target...

dnd-5e spells weapons creature-size

12:48 AM

hey there @Jadasc, how're things going?

Jadasc

@Shalvenay Doing okay. Just bopping in and out a little.

Yourself?

@Jadasc alright here

1:38 AM

hey there @nitsua60

1:55 AM

Hello! So @linksassin suggested I come here to discuss a question I posed yesterday. Its not against the rules for me to post a link to the question, right?

Only if you say please

@Ganny please do post the link

and welcome to the RPG.SE lair by the way @Ganny :)

Q: Improving myself and getting rid of my bad player habits

Thanks!

5

For a period of time (one or two years? Hard to tell) I became oddly ill. Incredibly sleepy, irritable, forgetful and it was all I could do to participate in the game. The GM thought I was becoming apathetic to his world, the other players just assumed my character was being distant, and I strugg...

system-agnostic problem-players group-dynamics players

I knew the question might be too vague when I posted it, but I'm kind of at vague state right now. I have a /very/ rough idea of what the problems are, but I'm having issues coming up with a reinforcement method that doesn't involve playing in a game.

My usual method would be to continually expose myself to the trigger for the problem and then fix myself over time... that doesn't work when I'm wary of relapsing and causing someone else to get emotionally hurt. >.<;

@Ganny Welcome! It's great that you are putting the effort in to improve the question. Hope we can help you.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (261): Can the Telekinesis spell be used on yourself for the following? by alicia pege on rpg.SE

2:08 AM

@Ganny It's possible to create minimal-harm spaces by being straightforward with trusted friends, telling them you've seen symptoms of a problem but don't know how to identify or treat it, and asking them to accompany you.

If people can engage with (and take breaks from) the situation on their terms, and everybody's going into it knowing that it's a form of diagnosis and practice so that's the focus rather than the "fun" of the game being used, it's possible to explore the problem with minimal emotional threat.

@BESW That part I have done. I have a friend who lives in town that I hang out with once a week. We watch movies, anime, and chat about Pathfinder stuff. Problem is, without a reinforcement tool, I'm not sure if the talk is helping or not.

That's good! I'm not talking about just talking about it.

Alternatively: this may be too personal, feel free to ignore it or only answer it to yourself, but I think it's important to at least ask if RPGs are the only part of your life where you're currently experiencing these recurring "darker" behaviours?

If it's not restricted to RPGs, then while RPGs may be a viable form of controlled-space therapy, addressing it as an RPG problem will just lead to symptoms intensifying elsewhere.

As a more general advice, if you want to become a "better player" without spending in-game time, it could help to read strategies on related TTRPG sites (such as this one)

Yes. Currently RPGs are the only place where the darker thoughts occur. At the time, I was working a pretty awful job and life was generally not great. My medication needed to be adjusted (needed a higher dose), and I switched to a better job. So, I at least learned when my life in general is getting very difficult, maybe to take a closer look at my dosage.

You may also want to look into safety and calibration tools including the Luxton technique, as ways to provide brakes and vents for your irritability, and also to help other players feel safe around you.

2:19 AM

If you do look online for advice, try to learn how priorities look from the perspectives of the DM and other players. Look for "problem player" questions and if the problem is similar to yours, maybe check out the suggested mitigations.

That's not a bad idea. Let me take a look at the links for a bit.

And... maybe consider other RPG systems. I know D&D-like games such as Pathfinder were very high-stress for me, and I probably would've quit RPGs entirely if I hadn't switched to systems which better fit my attitudes and goals.

Whatever systems you're using may be unnecessarily sapping mental/emotional/social energy.

You switched to a job that fit you better, you can do the same with your games.

That's fair. I like the complexity that DnD provides... and its the only type of games that I know of that go on in my area. Maybe when my schedule more regularly opens up, I can try and find a group who is playing a different system.

Although be tactful about how you suggest other systems, especially if your negative attitudes about mechanics may annoy players who enjoy those particular mechanics. When playing systems that my friends enjoy but I have qualms with, I have to be mindful to rein in the criticism.

Yeah. I like the idea behind the mechanics they use, I just believe they could be implemented in a better way. The others disagree, so I just get to live with it.

KorvinStarmast

2:29 AM

Ganny, I am going to toss a thought to you: the game, and the mechanics, are nowhere near as important as the people with whom you are playing.

Another tip from personal experience - depending on the system and tone of the campaign, maybe avoid choosing characters or personalities that tend to push you toward those behaviors you don't like

@Ganny Finding a simpatico group is massively important. Calibration tools can help a little.

In my experience, it's also helpful to set aside non-gaming time for social interaction with the group, it helps keep everybody mindful that the safety and happiness of the people we're playing with are more important than anything about the game we're playing.

@KorvinStarmast I agree. That's why I'm trying to work through this. These are some awesome people I have gotten to play with. Losing them sucks. So, I'm trying to work through this. I wish I could work through it faster, but if I rush it, I don't think it will work.

But that's also another reason to avoid tentpole games like D&D and Pathfinder; we have a tendency to think that if everyone's playing the same game, we all have the same reasons for playing, the same idea of what makes the game fun, the same goals both at the table and in the story.

Yeah, its why Session 0 is so important: To get everyone on the same page.

2:33 AM

Dec 28 '18 at 23:54, by BESW

@RyanfaeScotland I've found that session 0 is often necessary, but rarely sufficient. Session 0 is less about figuring out everything about how the game will be played, and more about initializing an ongoing conversation about what we like and need which will continue over the entire campaign so we can course-correct as we go.

Hrm... so that would be best reflected as a meta-level conversation of the game as a whole, right?

Yes, session zero is more about what the DM and players want. It's not really an in-character discussion.

For me, it involves asking these questions after most sessions:

May 11 '16 at 2:30, by BESW

- What do you want to see more of?
- What don't you want to see again?
- What would you like to add?
- What would you like to change?

KorvinStarmast

@Ganny I must be off to bed, as much as i'd like to offer you more encouragement in your quest to heal the wounds. My prayers are with you. Good night.

And also incorporating safety tools during the sessions which let us prioritize player safety over the inertia of the story (when we need to stop to talk mid-session, it's easier if there's a tool on the table to remind us that's okay).

2:36 AM

@KorvinStarmast Thanks! Have a good night.

I've also found that groups which have trouble with initial calibration in big sprawling systems like D&D or Pathfinder (games that try to be something for everyone), are more successful using narrowly focused systems which already provide a framework for the group to talk about what we want.

Yeah. The game that is on hiatus where these problems occurred had a rough session 0, but never really an ongoing conversation. In hindsight, it should have. The game ran for... almost six years and beyond that initial session 0, we never really talked about what we wanted in the game.

It took a LONG time for me to formalize the ongoing course-correction.

Every one of the players tried to start a conversation as time went on, but it always started as 'What I want to do' instead of asking 'What do /we/ want to be doing? More of what we have been, or do we want to switch gears?'

My first campaigns were amongst friends who all saw each other socially so often every week that we sort of accidentally did constant calibration, so I had a hard time learning how to make that happen on purpose with other groups later.

2:41 AM

Yeah, that's a common issue I've seen in many games across multiple systems; when everyone knows each other (to some extent) and knows the rules (to some extent), they tend to assume they're trying to play the game the same way. But each person actually approaches the game with their own assumptions, and eventually those mismatches manifest as table-level problems.

Hrm. Looking back to when we started butting heads, it was the moment one of the group moved 6 hours away to be closer to his family. We'd still play over webcam, but without that social calibration of just... hanging out, things went out of whack.

Q: How do I politely tell my players to shut up about their backstory?

Thankfully one of my first big non-D&D systems was Fate Core, which has group out-of-play collaboration assumptions baked into its framework and a few specific tools which are decent hooks for doing it. But what REALLY helped was that simultaneously I was getting community-building training from the Ruhi Institute, and that gave me a lot of facilitation and social curation tools.

@Ganny Been there, done that, got the social scarring.

Hot RPG Questions

7

Disclaimer: I know backstories are good and necessary but here's the issue - Two players have a joint backstory, and one of them is REALLY into it, and it's starting to disrupt game time because he keeps bringing it up. He'll pair off with his "partner" and do stuff just so they can start talki...

problem-players roleplaying background

This really helps a lot, thank you. Should have brought that question to the chat rather then try to write it out on Stack Overflow.

You might look for campaigns that gather around a particular set of shared touchstones. Evil Hat's Fate Worlds are good examples of this; the best ones take a premise based on something from pop culture, then twists it in a way that can be expressed clearly in a simple sentence.

For example, House of Bards is the political scheming of the House of Cards TV show, set in the capital city of a D&D-like world so that politicians have access to magical resources as well as money and manipulation.

That's a clear enough touchstone that it's harder for groups to dramatically de-calibrate.

2:50 AM

House of Bards XD

@Ganny I'm glad we can be of help! Bad experiences happen, and as a broader community the RPG landscape is only just recently starting to bake social, rather than mechanical, solutions into its praxis.

That's great

@Ganny This sort of thing is of especial interest to me, so if you're willing to keep us appraised of how you're doing I'd be very grateful.

Yeah. This isn't my first experience with these situations, but usually I'm the observer and not the cause, so I never really put much thought into it.

@BESW Sure! I'll do that as things develop.

Oh, one last thing, about different RPG systems: D&D and Pathfinder are on the extreme end of price, complexity, and length of sessions/campaigns. There are free systems like Fate and Lady Blackbird which can be learned in minutes or hours rather than days or weeks, and which can support satisfying single-session stories in just a couple hours.

2:54 AM

There are also even simpler RPGs that can be learned in seconds rather than hours. Trying a new system can help you and your friends isolate the system-specific stuff from the personal-roleplay stuff.

There are also systems which accommodate (like Fate) or are designed for (like Cthulhu Confidential) "twosie" play with one GM and one player, or just two players and no official GM role.

You may find that RPGs which don't have a lot of sunk costs (money spent, time needed to learn) or dedicated costs (needing to spend four hours a session for months on end) are significantly less stressful, AND easier to find people to play with you in.

Gotcha.

And games with low player-number requirements mean you and your one friend could just game with each other!

@BESW yes, short-form gameplay is something I was going to mention as well

it's definitely a useful tool for exploring new systems, conceits, techniques, etc without having the sunk time costs involved in integrating them into a new campaign

And yeah, there's always Roll For Shoes. [grin]

3:03 AM

Hahahaha! Oh, this is great.

@Ganny I'm glad you reached out, and even more glad that BESW and others were able to help you. After this conversation do you still feel you have a question to ask on the main site? There's no pressure to do so though if you don't want to. But we can also help you workshop a stackable question.

At this junction, I don't. Instead of a question, I have more of a loose plan of action to work with, which is a much better place to be. I can note this as a reply to the question, if you like?

Also I agree with the recommendations of trying out rules-light rpgs like Roll For Shoes, Goblin Quest and others. They are a great low commitment low stress entrance point. And may be a great place for you to work on things without the additional mechanical stresses.

@Ganny It's up to you. You can leave it as a comment, edit the question, delete it, or do nothing. If you do nothing the question will eventually get cleaned up by the system anyway. I agree that a plan of action is a much better outcome than a good stack question.

If it's okay, I'd like to bookmark this conversation for future reference; meaning it'll be available for people look up here.

You could link to the bookmark in a comment on the held question if you like.

That would be awesome, and it would be a great way for other people who might be having similar problems.

Uh... where is said bookmark? So I can link directly to it.

3:15 AM

I just made it now!

Ganny and the Good Habits, pt 1

1 hour ago, 1 hour 17 minutes total – 79 messages, 9 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 13 secs ago by BESW

Excellent!

user15026

@BESW this sounds like the title of a children's morality tale, or alternately some sort of punk band possibly involving nuns

POKÉMON Detective Pikachu: Full Picture

►

Posted by Ryan Reynolds

Well, aren't we all children at heart, @Ash

@Ash [cough]

3:20 AM

@BESW The Luxton technique is a fascinating read. It seems like a much more proactive approach to safe spaces. Where X-Card and Veil are attempting to make spaces "not harmful" this technique can be actually beneficial.

user15026

@BESW how do you fiiiiind this stuff

@linksassin Yeah, while nothing's a one-size-fits-all solution to all problems, the Luxton Technique models a much more constructive and compassionate attitude toward safety tools. I like it.

user15026

@Ganny potentially!

@Ash it's called magic

XD

3:23 AM

Lol

@Ash they have it all bookmarked, and posts it when it becomes relevant

Yes. I have bookmarked the entire Internet.

user15026

@BESW now I know your secret!

@Ben Bookmarks Every Single Website.

2

Lol

Yes all of them

Because that makes sense

3:31 AM

@Ben @Ash In truth @BESW has excellent searching skills and a great knowledge of things that exist somewhere. No need to bookmark things if you can find it again in seconds anyway.

user15026

It is one of the many things I appreciate about him yes. :)

user15026

Because I am a very forgetful bean so I appreciate other people's ability to find things

For the game of [jeff] it's mostly a faith that things exist. I googled punk nun band because there's no way there's NOT a punk nun band, and there it was.

That's hilarious

user15026

for all my sense of wonder in the world, I don't think to look for things that way :P

3:35 AM

"there's no way that there isn't a punk nun band " XD

user15026

(Although I did spend a while watching someone blow like toddler sized bubbles today with this stick and string contraption, much to the delight of some small humans who were also in the park)

But also yes, I read a LOT and my brain is good at tagging things.

Oh, toddler-sized bubbles are great.

The trick is adding baking powder, and/or corn starch/corn syrup/glycerin.

user15026

Neat!

Like soap bubbles?

user15026

I should figure out the proportions because I feel like my nephew would find it delightful, being a small human of toddler age

user15026

3:37 AM

@trogdor yep!

user15026

They had a stick/string thing that they dipped and then slowly waved and then there were GIANT BUBBLES

user15026

and much small children pleased giggles.

Ooh I was wondering what you meanby toddler sized

user15026

they were the approximate size of a toddler, the soap bubbles were

I thought you meant like thier lung capacity when blowing them in those loop things you use for it

You meant huge though

Actual the size of toddler bubbles

XD

3:43 AM

@BESW This is canon

3:59 AM

@BESW I forgot about jeff haha

That's my secret: I'm always jeffing.

Lol

I don't even remember why Jeff is a thing

Dec 1 '16 at 10:35, by doppelgreener

something is weird with my site shortcuts in my browser:

Dec 1 '16 at 10:36, by doppelgreener

@BESW Hahahaha

Don't you have it when something makes you laugh out loud, and everyone asks what it is, but there's no way they would understand

@Ben Almost every time I laugh out loud at home yes

@BESW oh yeah

That was weird

4:09 AM

@Ben All the time... "What's so funny?" "Oh umm... Have you seen this particular episode of an obscure show? You have? great! Do you also understand the principles of computer science? No... well umm... it's not that funny really"

4:29 AM

Or "have you watched this specific YouTube video and also played this specific video game?"

I assume a lot of people experience that honestly

Knowing no one is going to get the joke

I sometimes even get the opposite. I'll be telling an interesting story about something I learned recently, like the SlowMo Guys episode where they are able to film the speed of light. Then they'll interrupt me halfway through to ask "is this leading up to a terrible punchline" haha

Lol

I don't generally get that

I have made a few accidental puns though

4:53 AM

@Ben Don't you get that interesting stories aren't popular unless they are a joke? :P

Well, did you know that some people believe that lightning travels from the clouds to the ground, then back up again?

@Ben It bounces, like a ball. That's how you get ball lightning.

This is actually not entirely true. Lighting travels from a positively charged point, to a negatively cheated point, or vice versa. This commonly leads to the normal pattern of lighting going down, then back K up again, but it can also lead to the bolts travelling through the clouds instead

If it doesn't bounce, then that's a travel violation, and the ball is given to the opposing team for a throw-in

@MikeQ Lighting is the god's playing basketball afterall.

5:04 AM

There's also disc lightning, which moves in horizontal arcs, and obeys the physical rules of frisbee golf

2

Q: How do I calculate my to-hit bonus when using the Great Weapon Master feat?

@Ben I assume they think it goes back up because of how the arc visually seems to recede upward. Or at least our retina think so.

Hot RPG Questions

1

I currently have a barbarian who is going to receive the Great Weapon Master feat. Looking over it, I have a question about the -5 to hit mentioned in the feat. The second benefit of the Great Weapon Master feat (PHB, pg. 167) Before you make a melee attack with a heavy weapon that you are p...

dnd-5e feats weapons barbarian

Duh Lightning has to go back up into the clouds or we would stop getting more Lightning XP

Lightning Strike at 103,000 FPS

►

Nice

Those guys are cool

Slo mo stuff Is pretty neat

5:16 AM

@trogdor Yes it's all part of the rainwater cycle. Lightning comes down, flows into rivers, and later evaporates and goes back to the sky.

XD

5:44 AM

Hahaha

My favourite one of theirs is the "speed of light" video they've done. Absolutely mind boggling

Well, I'm 45 mins early to the party haha

The wedding party?

Yeah haha. They told me to arrive at 430. The place opens at 430, and I got here at 345

@Ben At least you aren't the bride. My wife showed up 40 minutes early to our wedding. She is late to things a lot and was really nervous so left too early. They went for a drive around the neighbourhood.

Maybe she was just so excited she couldn't wait to marry you? Haha

I hate being way too early but not as much as being late XD

5:57 AM

That is adorable though :)

But yeah I mean, that's definitely one way to make sure you aren't late to your own wedding, nothing wrong with that

@Ben I take it that way now. I can say I definitely didn't when I saw her dad's car arrive before the guests. There had been issue with him in the lead up to the wedding and I thought the worst.

@linksassin oh nooooooooo.

I don't know how I'd be able to handle that!

@linksassin oh X(

Everything worked out in the end and it was actually a perfect day. That was the only serious hitch and I would take it compared to what else could have happened.

6:01 AM

Indeed.

I'm 50/50 about delivering any "impromptu/brother of the bride" speeches this evening, due to my current case of epilepsy.

I fear my brain may do it's reset and I won't be able to form sentences in the middle of my speech

Can't say I can give you advice on that. But I wish you luck.

Only thing I will say is that unless you offend the couple no one will care. You are related to them and it comes from the heart. You can't do it wrong.

My wife's sister cried so hard she barely got half her speech out. No one cared. We knew what she meant, the words didn't really matter

6:18 AM

Yeah :) it's about celebration, so as long as you're celebrating :)