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4:00 PM
I could make some wild guesses though, depending on the question.
I also have a friend who studies Japanese so I could ask him.
 
I took a photo of something that has some Japanese (I believe) characters on it... wondering what it says.
 
@nitsua60 Also speaking as someone who watches a lot of anime, I could make a lot of wholly unsubstantiated guesses that will probably make whatever you're trying to do a lot harder.
 
Well, I also know Chinese which can help but sometimes not really.
Okay, so that photo needs to be rotated.
 
Yes. I believe the flower would sit on the top.
 
4:02 PM
The first two characters are numbers, 3 and 8.
The third one, according to Google Translate, can be either "formula" or "ceremony". Although the 3 and 8 are making me wonder if it could stand for "caliber".
But I also know that a lot of Japanese and Chinese firearms are designated as "Type <Number>" in English.
 
Interesting. The name of the piece is the "type 38".
So it's just the model name. Thanks.
 
Yeah, "Type 38" is the most likely translation.
 
I'm impressed.
 
1
Q: What happens to the size of the sphere if a creature changes size inside of it?

VistIf one was to reduce a creature, making them smaller and then casting Otiluke's Resilient Sphere around them, what would happen when reduce has ended? Would the sphere enlarge itself to fit the creature?

Can I get eyes on this? Was it correct to remove the damage part of the question or do we think that we should keep it in?
@nitsua60 darn missed it by a few minutes
 
I feel like the duplicates are improper because that question refers to physical objects whereas Resilient Sphere is a spell/spell effect.
 
4:11 PM
@Xirema Yeah, the stealth rules are such a train wreck.
 
Does D&D 5e still determine vision penalties based on the light level you're standing in rather than the light level you're looking at?
 
@MarkWells Meh. They're fine in general. If tables want their own more specific stuff, that's house rules.... like auto-hide invisible.
 
@Yuuki does it though? the last question might imply physical object but nothing about the question limits it to that.
 
@doppelgreener I think it's just where the target is. At least that's how I've always interpreted it.
 
I feel like stealth rules aren't actually that complicated in 5e, especially compared to 4e's "hidden club".
 
4:13 PM
They aren't complicated. They're just incoherent.
 
I usually think of the inivisible swordsman scene from the three amigos
 
In D&D 3.5e/Pathfinder at least, if you are standing in darkness, you get vision penalties like a lower chance of hitting your target. But when someone else is standing in bright light, that means you have a penalty of hitting them, but they have no problem hitting you.
 
@MarkWells If you go looking for edge cases, you'll find them.
@doppelgreener That's messed up. My tables sort out if the target is obscured first then lighting the target it in to figure out roll modifiers.
 
@ColinGross Sure, all rules are like that, but here the edge cases are things like "So what if two guys are sneaking past a guard?"
 
5e is basically "People know where you are unless you're hiding. Using an action to hide lets you roll stealth to determine the difficulty to notice you. Other creatures use their passive perception to know if you're around, or active checks if they're actually looking for you. You aren't hidden from anyone who can directly see you."
 
4:17 PM
6
Q: If a creature's size suddenly increases while it is inside a very small Sphere of Force (from Wall of Force) what happens?

John Blaise LentLet's be very specific. Assume you have two casters. The first one casts polymorph on, lets say, a Kraken, and uses portent to assure a failed save. He turns the Kraken it into a regular 1/2 inch diameter spider. The second caster casts wall of force and creates a no save 1/2 inch diameter spher...

 
@CTWind See, you're already doing better than the people who were paid to write the rules.
 
19
Q: What happens when Wild Shape/Polymorph runs out in a space that's too small?

rogue_expatSo in a 5e campaign I'm running, the party Druid has recently been doing some scouting of the local monster caves in spider form to avoid notice. I've also described how the goblins and kobolds who live in these caves use a variety of tunnels too small for Medium sized creatures in order to get a...

 
@MarkWells Whenever someone starts sneaking, they roll their stealth. That score gets compared to passive perception of the guard no?
 
@MarkWells I don't see the edge case there- either the DM views it as a 'challenge' and just sets a DC to beat/maybe uses the group rules for skill checks, or you directly use the stealth rules and each player can independently hide/get noticed.
 
@CTWind Sometimes I do a group check with the person with worst stealth rolling for the group if they're all together and it's a all-for-one and one-for-all situation... also, it's faster.
 
4:20 PM
I prefer the 'half the party must succeed' flavor just because I assume the sneakier people can lead the way/point out squeaky floorboards/etc. and help make up for the less-sneaky folk.
Depends on the situation though.
 
@CTWind Ooo I like that!
 
Right, so that's four different proposed ways to resolve the attempt (DM sets a DC, group check, lowest skill rolls for the group, or everyone rolls separately).
 
yoink
 
And giving the DM multiple tools for thing is fine
 
@MarkWells Sure, but that applies to all skill checks. The rules literally have ~3 ways to deal with group skill checks in general.
 
4:21 PM
@MarkWells Yup. Play the way that makes sense. It's pretty flexible. Heck... I've done special combo checks for a party that was going all mission impossible and sneaking through occupied squares.
Turns out invisible halflings with pass without trace have really high stealth modifiers.
I think the invisibility and stealth interaction isn't intuitive to people that never played "whack each other with sticks" in the complete darkness of a basement or cave.
3
 
@ColinGross It makes so much sense as long as everyone is sharing the same light level. :)
 
I wonder how many people have the common experience with total darkness. Even outdoor environments have sufficient light pollution that you can see your hand in front of your face during a new moon.
 
@doppelgreener Next time we'll do rules for ship combat when not everyone is using the same wind.
 
@doppelgreener It's based on the targets light level. 1. Is the target obscured from the shooter by obstructions... that's cover. 2. is the target in bright, dim, or dark.
The shooter's light level isn't a consideration.
 
@ColinGross Truly the game of kings.
 
4:37 PM
@MarkWells The thing is, they're actually not that bad; they're just scattered across 4 different sections of the book and you have to reconcile all of them together to get the correct rules.
If you take all the rules for Stealth in 5e and put them in one place, it's only about 3-4 paragraphs.
But that's 3-4 paragraphs in 4 different sections of 3 different chapters.
That's what fornicates† the Stealth rules so badly, and makes them so complicated.
 
4:49 PM
@ColinGross oh good! that's a relief
:49606352 unfortunately i was afk
 
There is one part of stealth that bothers me. Since you roll stealth when you start hiding, you live with the meta knowledge of what your stealth check is for the duration. There are ways around it- DM rolls for you, you roll the first time you encounter an obstacle, out-of-combat stealth is just done by checks per obstacle, etc., but I don't know what solution I like if any.
But it feels weird for the player to know "Ok, I'm gonna start being sneaky as I walk toward the guard post over there. Oh, a nat 2. Well, I'm not there yet. Maybe we try a different plan."
 
@CTWind alternately that's about making an educated decision about what kind of stealth is available: you know you probably can't find the cover or opportunity to get over there without being spotted here
 
@doppelgreener no worries. it was minor and not really worth a ping.
 
otoh mega swingy results like that are part of the weirdness
 
@Xirema Same thing for vision, light, obscurement, and cover
which actually I think there is some crossover with.
 
5:00 PM
@CTWind Alternately, you declare what you want to do and the DM says what check you make. So you say "I want to be sneaky and go past that guard without being noticed", the DM has you roll, and you either pass or fail.
 
@GreySage Right. You're not "turning on stealth mode", you're trying to do a specific thing. This also lets the DM say "There isn't any cover between you and the gatehouse, you'd be crossing fifty yards of open ground, want to try something different?"
 
I think "You don't make the stealth roll until you encounter a situation where failing actually matters" is a good way to resolve the metagaming issue.
Especially since discrete actions don't really exist outside of Initiative order.
 
@GreySage Yeah, that's probably the appropriate way to handle it. DM can make the call of whether or not to continue using that check later. The hiding sidebar does start with "The DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding.", I sometimes forget that because there's a player-controlled action to hide.
 
I handle some kinds of traps like that: you say "I go through the door" and you get a roll to spot the trap, but if you don't spot it, you're committed to going through the door.
 
Stealth is a bit difficult in many ways, starting with the fact that failing a single stealth check, when interpreted conservatively, is going to render many kinds of larger operations into total non-starters.
 
5:14 PM
@CTWind I flip a coin behind the screen and invert the roll if it's tails.
 
You know, I'm just know fully realizing that stealth in D&D is just really not fun for me. I wonder if that's why our table hardly ever does it.
 
@Rubiksmoose Going in noisy can be fun :-P. But yeah, if being stealthy just means stealth checks and that's it, there's not much to it. If you're trying to run a stealth operation, you'll have to mix it up with challenges that may or may not be stealth related- puzzle to get into a vault, maybe it alarms when you screw up, bluff your way past a guard that you can't sneak past, etc.
If that kind of stuff isn't your bag and combat is, then going loud's definitely the more attractive route.
 
@CTWind I mean we do do the thing where everyon rolls stealth to see if they were noticed but usually it is a one-and-done type thing you know? Never a stealth operation.
 
@Rubiksmoose I really enjoy when 1 PC is very stealthy, and another is very not-stealthy, and they try to do stealthy things together. Then you get scenarios where the rogue slips past all the monsters and the dwarven fighter rings like a cymbal as he smacks into the wall, and hijinxs ensue.
 
D&D does have the inherent problem that it defines stealth as the domain of rogues, so the most obvious way to use it is for the rogue to go do stuff alone while the rest of the players mess around on their phones.
 
5:22 PM
Yeah, just a group check is hard to make fun, as just being stealthy on its own isn't itself a reward. Need to have interesting reward moments (overhearing important/revealing convos, etc.) that come from that as a way of making it more attractive, but that's a hard negative loop to get out of if you're already not being stealthy.
 
@GreySage Yeah that does lead to fun things for sure.
 
That's why I like the group check rules if there's a 'stealth-detecting obstacle'- if half the group is built to be somewhat stealthy, you at least 'unlock access' to stealth-gated content, as it were.
 
2
Q: What happens to a creature that changes size inside of Otiluke's Resilient Sphere?

VistIf one was to reduce a creature, making them smaller and then casting Otiluke's Resilient Sphere around them, what would happen when reduce has ended? Would the creature get crushed by the sphere due to becoming big again, or would the sphere enlarge itself? If they would take damage, how much a...

 
5:41 PM
@MarkWells That can be solved by encounter design. A caper that doesn't have things going on in parallel is a poor caper. Make encounter structures that require multiple parts to be done at the same time.
Chase, sneak, fight, and solve are some of the kinds of things that can be simultaneous and meet up at the end.
 
4
Q: How can mimic phobia be cured?

VylixThis has actually happened to me as a player, and a player I've DM'ed in a oneshot. In short, when we delve into a dungeon, whenever a DM describes an object in a weird way, we become very cautious to approach the said object. This is very true with objects that usually can be an animated object....

 
@HotRPGQuestions this is probably a question to watch for low quality and/or unsupported answers all.
 
6:17 PM
@naut.... not in chat, huh?
 
@goodguy5 nah he's been out of it too long.
 
@Rubiksmoose It's been quite a while since he's been in here.
@HotRPGQuestions That is a very common problem, how do I describe things without tipping off players/have my players assume I am tipping them off. I feel like it's almost certainly a duplicate, although the specifics make it hard to close.
 
Uhmmmm
I have a Pathfinder session in less than 2 hours and I didn't really consider that tonight's enemy has taken tabs on the PCs for the last 7 levels.
Also, the enemy seems really weak despite having several more HD than the PCs...
 
Well, generally one thing is weaker than a party of things
 
@GreySage months at least
 
6:30 PM
@Zachiel This is your arena game, isn't it?
 
@GreySage no. Which arena game?
 
@Zachiel I always have to remind myself that a clever, more informed enemy will disengage with the party if directly confronted. They'll often throw a different problem at the party to keep them distracted while they strike from a position of advantage or make their escape.
 
@Zachiel Nevermind, I was mis-remembering something.
 
@JackStout this enemy wants to play cat and mice with the party and then try to ally with them
 
@Zachiel I never seem to let my NPCs hang on through multiple fights, which is a shame. It would be cool for the players to build a real frustration-based hatred of an opponent.
@Zachiel Good luck with that. I've never been successful and am curious if/how you pull it off.
 
6:37 PM
@JackStout Boots of emergency teleport: When the creature wearing these falls to 0 hp, the creature instantly teleports away. That'll get your PCs frustrated.
 
In one campaign I was playing in, there was a recurring boss who liked to toy with the PCs (who were still at too low levels to beat him) by appearing to them, fighting a few rounds, usually putting our characters quite close to death in the time
At best we managed to off a few of his underlings
 
@GreySage one PC has a maneuver that prevents teleportation
 
That was an intensely frustrating gimmick and I kinda hated seeing it again in a later campaign. The combat engine of DnD is very bulky and it takes a lot of time to resolve a hopeless railroaded encounter that could've ended in mere seconds without it.
 
@kviiri Isn't that the way Curse of Strahd is supposed to go?
 
@GreySage That's the later campaign, yes
 
6:41 PM
@JackStout Lich.
 
Controlling Strahd was a lot of fun. Got to teach my players to respect their enemy (or suffer the consequences)
 
It also completely wrecked my ability to take the game seriously because with several important encounters just ending with the villain poofing away, it suddenly felt like any encounter could be totally meaningless.
 
@Zachiel dimension door, misty step, gaseous form?
@kviiri I had the some of the nobility have a single use "get out of dodge" amulet. When used, it remain behind a smouldering husk of valuable metal. The players picked one up, realized the cost to make, and also sold it for decent money.
Also, the remembered who had used their amulet previously and would actually need saving, since they were expensive and time consuming. Even the princes of the city had only one.
 
I liked either adding Strahd to an existing encounter for a few rounds to add pressure, or using encounters with strahd to instill fear and to reveal things about him, to take away from the "why are we doing an hour of combat with no payoff"
 
I used to really want to DM CoS, but the more I hear about that the less I do.
Of course, nowadays I'm really disinclined to run 5e anything so
 
6:55 PM
My players often tell me it's the best campaign they ever played, and beg to go back and finish it, and as DM I think it's one of the most fun modules i've ever played also
YMMV but I'd recommend it (and recommend practising a slavic accent before playing)
 
oh! well that it is a very nice recommendation!
 
Personally every D&D game i've played was very high fantasy, LOTR-esque in themes and settings, so the change to a more "gothic horror" setting was eye-opening
 
@SirCinnamon Interesting, do you know why your players liked it? Did you do anything specific for them?
 
@ColinGross Or a device that consumes some kind of special reagent and leaves it behind as they teleport and the players can learn how it works and then figure out how to disable it.
So until they do that, the villain just keeps teleporting away.
 
I like that. Increase the agency of players!
 
7:00 PM
@GreySage Honestly the modifications I made to the provided lore were pretty minimal (but spoilery so I wont go into them) I just really tried to put my all into establishing there themes of the adventure. I think (for my group) it struck the perfect balance of open world vs railroaded/clear goal
 
@SirCinnamon LoTR isn't high fantasy, unless you are Feanor
I've played gritty and high fantasy both in D&D, and while I prefer gritty, LoTR seems a weird mish mash of both.
 
@KorvinStarmast Yeah, i meant more as like... somewhere on the blend of the two
 
@SirCinnamon that is indeed what kind of drew me to it.
 
@SirCinnamon Yeah, and it's meant as literature in a different way than Fritz Lieber's Swords and Sorcery stories were.
 
@SirCinnamon I'm sure both of these could be achieved without spending an hour in the combat engine
 
7:02 PM
@KorvinStarmast Ahem. Secondary world, so yes high fantasy.
 
@kviiri Yeah, though some amount of combat is enjoyable, just need to strike the right balance for the right people /shrug
 
@SirCinnamon Yeah, don't get me wrong, combat is one of my favorite things in DnD
It just bugged me how those encounters with Strahd were basically predetermined setpieces
 
@kviiri I have noticed in our gaming group that when I run combat, they take about a third of the time as when my brother runs it. Why? I keep identifying whose turn it is and "you do what?" and if they don't decide, my simple rule is 'you dodge' and I move on to the next one.
 
@kviiri I don't know how many/which encounters you're talking about so i cant speak too specifically, but there are only a small number of "mandatory" encounters with strahd, but the book does recommend sprinkling him in. I could see how overdoing that would get tiresome
 
My overall intent is to ratchet up the tension in combat, since in this edition it is a "fast and furious" thing. Keeping the at table pace up seems to aid that.
 
7:05 PM
@SirCinnamon Yes, this is largely in relation to the earlier (homebrew) campaign where a similar trope was used
But my frustration with it continued to CoS
 
@kviiri recurring villain is a trope/tool that can be done well, and can be done badly
 
Yeah the payoff of "villain shows up and rubs it in your face that he's big and bad" is "I get to beat the snot out of the villain." Going off that right back to getting flexed on would be irritating
 
I mean, normally the combat engine in DnD is a place where one is more or less guaranteed a certain degree of meaningful choice. The moment when the players start feeling that any combat can be just a setpiece with a fixed outcome, that agency loses meaning. Then it's just rolling dice as a ritual in the combat engine to arrive at a foregone conclusion
3
 
@SirCinnamon In CoS, the payoff is "we REALLY need to find a way to beat this guy, or we're toast"
 
@kviiri I tend to avoid rolls when I already know the outcome. They can't move this item: no roll. They can obviously climb this wall: no roll. In combat this tends to mean we switch to roleplay, which may or may not use a form of initiative order. I should be sad moment to fight a hopeless battle, but it shouldn't waste the player's time.
I've had an NPC in mind for a bit that has no interest in the party. When engaged, they simply try to continue with their plan. Only after being foiled a couple times does the party gain their ire. By then, the party should be on more even footing.
 
7:22 PM
@ColinGross d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/unique-monsters/cr-12/rakshasa-monk-4 except monk 5 and Advanced template (+4 all ability scores, +2 natural armor)
Ouch, I just realized that the tactics section might be spoilery
 
A flying tiger woman that takes no damage on successful reflex saves while raining down magic missiles as an opener seems pretty nasty.
 
@ColinGross do alchemist bombs require reflex saves? I don't think so. The alchemist lobs three per round.
And if the Mystic manages to curse her, each mobm deals 2 more damage per dice.
 
@Zachiel she could open up with shield. That makes hitting her ranged pretty hard.
 
@ColinGross this sorceress has no shield.
I guess she can get a potion of it.
 
Oh. I thought they had the shield spell too
 
7:32 PM
Also the alchemist can pass around potions of fey shape that will give flying to the entire party, if he goes that way. Sure, maybe they won't expect it.
 
That requires time and prep
 
Or maybe the summoner will enlarge the extended range swashbuckler who can then hit (and riposte) the whole room
also, flying eidolon
 
Also, three bombs/ round? What level are the party members?
 
with relatively poor attack rolls
@ColinGross 9
 
That's not two per round?
 
7:34 PM
@ColinGross rapid shot
 
Gotcha
 
I just wonder what she can plan except long-lasting potions of elemental resistance
 
Saving invisibility for retreat.
ghost sound + suggestion might be useful for getting the tank to move away from the party.
Like, sounds like some bad guys are coming up from behind us!
Get the part all arranged, then it's time to stab some back!
magic missile is 4d4+4 garunteed, but not a great opener. the lighting javelin would be a good opener if they part is in a line or a group.
 
@ColinGross the mystic can give see invisibility and blur to 3 people for 4 rounds as a move action, there's no way that isn't up. And the enemy knows.
They don't know of the anti-teleport yet, so I guess they will try TPing away.
 
@Zachiel so the mystic probably needs to go down first. Flurry + stunning strike?
 
7:49 PM
@ColinGross The mystic has 36 AC
Well, maybe leaving it last and having it fight alone isn't the best tactic after all.
Ranged openers against him or the whole party it is.
 
+21 to hit with stunning strike, if that hits, the mystic's AC isn't so great for the subsequent attacks
no dex bonus and a -2
 
@KorvinStarmast Mummy curse, goodberries wither and die within the village.
As for why the party is hungry and starving? The curse extends throughout the domain, and they've been wandering through the domain this whole time. Otherwise, if it didn't, villagers could simply farm and eat outside of the village.
 
@ColinGross I'll se how it goes. Of course I don't want to smashe the party but I want this enemy to look competent
 
@Zachiel and still get away, yes?
 
@ColinGross possibly. She has plans.
 
7:59 PM
It's kinda hard to kill characters, but laying out the mystic sounds like it might delay the party long enough or at least make them think twice about pursuit.
If she lays out the mystic in the first round or two then starts to retreat, and it's obviously a retreat, they might not follow.
If they do, a lightning javelin or two would likely slow them down. Expeditious retreat is double move? or static bonus?
 
8:21 PM
@Zachiel If she dies, her sister could have plans!
 
8:42 PM
@ColinGross It gives x4 movement speed doesn't it?
 
@GreySage I get all the editions muddled up for some of those old spells.
 
8:58 PM
Question: Between Light Obscurement and Heavy Obscurement, only Light Obscurement is expressly called out as causing Disadvantage on Perception Checks. Does this mean Heavy Obscurement does not confer Disadvantage?
(I may end up posting that as a question unless there's a trivially obvious answer to that question)
(Also, this is 5e)
 
@Xirema I think heavy obscurement means it breaks line of sight, so you can't target at all.
 
@GreySage Not talking about targeting though. Just talking about Perception checks.
 
@Xirema Oh right, well, if its based on sight then you just can't see it at all (automatic fail/don't call for one).
 
 
@GreySage But Perception isn't only about Sight, it's also about Hearing or Smell. Think Hidden creatures that you're attempting to Search for.
 
9:04 PM
@Xirema >A heavily obscured area-such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage-blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition
And blinded says it automatically fails any ability check that relies on sight.
So, if it's a sight based perception check, then they fail. If it is only partially based on sight, the DM would make a ruling.
 
@Yuuki lol
 
@Yuuki Isn't there a Barbarian archetype that uses its Wisdom score for bonuses?
Or am I misremembering?
@GreySage Does Search-ing for a creature in a room solely rely on sight?
 
I'm not too familiar with Barbarians.
Although now I'm tempted to roll a Zealot Barbarian and roleplay as a low CHA Paladin.
 
> When you take the Search action, you devote your attention to finding something. Depending on the nature of your search, the DM might have you make a Wisdom (Perception) check or an Intelligence (Investigation) check.Search, PHB, pg. 193
 
@Xirema As far as I can see it is not defined, so it's up to the DM
 
9:11 PM
(I'm not trying to play gotcha, I'm just trying to find evidence that the Disadvantage on Perception checks for Lightly Obscured vision implicitly applies to Heavily Obscured vision Perception Checks)
Because logically, that makes sense; but I can't find evidence as such that RAW, that's how it works.
 
@Xirema Remember that the disadv. only applies to perception checks that rely on sight too, so if you are applying it to lightly obscured the same check would automatically fail in heavily obscured.
related: I always forget to impose disadvantage to PCs and mobs with Darkvision when they're in total darkness.
 
> In a lightly obscured area, such as dim light, patchy fog, or moderate foliage, creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.Light and Vision, PHB, pg. 183
> A blinded creature can't see and automatically fails any ability check that requires sight.Blinded, PHB, pg. 290
@GreySage So we're not quite there. There's a difference between relying on something, and requiring something.
 
@Xirema Eh, not a very big one, and not something I would make a mechanical distinction over. In certain contexts they can be synonyms.
 
After all, if that were true, then it would be impossible to Search for a creature in Darkness or if they were Invisible, and we know that's not true.
 
Depends on how you search. If you're just looking into the room, that relies on/requires sight. If you're waving your arms into every square of a room, that doesn't.
 
9:22 PM
@GreySage Not necessarily. You might hear a hidden creature in darkness, or you might spot upturned dust left by an invisible creature in a bright room. Both are cases of "Heavy Obscurement", but neither requires you to physically sweep a room to detect something.
 
@Axoren Is that your ruling, or is that in the text for the monster in question?
 
@Xirema Then it still falls under DM ruling for if Searching relies on sight. I would argue that spotting dust from an invisible creature isn't obscured, since you can clearly see the dust, and thus falls outside the domain of this question.
 
@kviiri Ooh, I haven't had an opportunity to shout "GOBLIN DICE!" for a while.
 
> An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured. The creature's location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves.Invisible, PHB, pg. 291
 
@Xirema Right. Is there something I should be inferring from your bolded text? Since it heavily obscured it can hide, and things relying/requiring sight fail. What those things are is still up to the DM to adjudicate.
 
9:28 PM
@BESW oh yeah the dice o the goblins
 
@GreySage Well, the dust upturned by an Invisible creature is definitely in the domain of my question. Bear in mind that a lot of these things are abstractions. If you get detected because of dust you upturned, that's a narrative justification for the [2] you rolled on your Stealth Check, not a specific Chekhov's Dustbunny the DM planted in the scene.
 
@Xirema ok, sure, but they still can't see you. To be honest I don't really see the goal of this conversation.
 
9:45 PM
I'll admit that I've had looooong conversations about visibility/sight/lighting in 5e because I've not yet found a way of thinking about them that "clicks" and gets me out of either having to look everything up or feel like I'm totally winging it.
 
Xirema's concern seems to be about determining what exactly relies on sight, but I think that is impossible to objectively define, and leave it to the DM.
 
(Yeah, sorry--just popped in and didn't read through it all.)
 
Another slow Friday afternoon... Zzzz
 
This is the question all this was leading up to:
0
Q: Is a Perception Check against an Invisible Target made with Disadvantage?

XiremaHere's the scenario: Creature A is invisible, in an empty room, in an arbitrary location in the room The room is adequately lit (call it Bright Light, for the sake of argument) Creature A is trying to hide (they make a Stealth Check). Creature B enters the room. Creature B is not actively searc...

Please do not upvote my answer.
 
@GreySage My daughter and I--she's home sick from school--watched Newsies today. Verdict: liked it, but a little light on girl characters.
 
9:50 PM
In fact, you should downvote it.
Because I refuse to believe it's correct.
But I can't prove it's incorrect.
 
@Xirema If I were to downvote it, it would be because the answer is phased like another question, but it has good quality stuff in it.
@Xirema I believe your answer is correct, but you didn't apply all the implications. Basically, perception checks aren't made at disadvantage, but regardless of the outcome of the check you still can't see the creature. You might be able to pinpoint where/what it is, but it's still invisible.
 
@GreySage Well, implicit is the understanding that Perception doesn't necessarily allow you to see something that's invisible, it only allows you to locate something.
 
@nitsua60 I feel like I've seen that before, is it an old movie?
 
Like, at no point am I asserting that a successful Perception check allows a creature to see the invisible creature.
 
@GreySage Musical from ca. 1990, about paperboys in 1910ish NYC going on strike.
 
9:55 PM
@nitsua60 Yeah, that sounds right
 
The neighbor from Doogie Howser was the most noticeable actor in it. At the time.
The lead was played by Christian Bale, whom you might have heard of since then.
 
@Xirema well, you do actually
> I mean, that's really weird, right, if an invisible creature is not actually conferring disadvantage on attempts to see it?
 
@GreySage lower-case "see", not upper-case "See". =P
I edited to fix that though.
I obviously meant detection, not literal visibility.
 
@Xirema Ok, that wasn't obvious, but I see what you're getting at.
I don't see any problem with the rules as you've outlined them. Maybe make invisibility automatically give you a bonus (or advantage) to Stealth, but thats it.
 
@GreySage I mean, mechanically, I'm actually okay with Invisibility not conferring any special benefits beyond the ability to take the Hide Action at-will. I just want confirmation that the "Perception Checks are not made with Disadvantage" part is correct or not.
 
10:01 PM
@Xirema Under the understanding that the Check isn't 100% reliant on sight, I believe you are correct and there is no Disadvantage.
Rather, the fact of being invisible fundamentally removes possibilities from opposed Checks, ie. They can't see you no matter what.
 
@Xirema It hurts because it's true =(
 
This whole discussion is just begging for a "I see what you did there" joke.
@Xirema I'm sorry, I did upvote the answer.
 
10:22 PM
Welcome! When you get a chance you can edit the edition either into the body of the post or as a tag, by writing something like adnd-2e or dnd-5e into the list of tags. If you can't find anywhere on the books where it says that (like I couldn't when I came back to D&D after a 20+ year hiatus) feel free to pop into Role-playing Games Chat and people there should be able to give you a hand. Or this visual guide to the editions' corebooks might help. — nitsua60 ♦ 2 mins ago
I'm running to dinner and a kids' sleepover. Please note that I just volunteered you-all to be helpful.
 
10:53 PM
OP added system to this Q, although he seems unsure.
 
@KorvinStarmast My ruling. Otherwise, the story suffers.
 
@GreySage I've VtROed, if you want to undelete.
 
11:40 PM
Any SO users might want to check this out:
80
Q: The Ask Question Wizard is Live!

Jon ChanI'm really happy to announce that the Ask Question Wizard is now live on Stack Overflow! This is the end of a long arc of experiments that have been happening for over a year to provide structured guidance to newcomers when asking a question, and I'm so excited for everyone in the community to gi...

This will (presumably) at some point be rolled out to the whole network.
 
@nitsua60 ...that sounds like a Dear Abby column?
 
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