TRPG General Chat

BESW

12:00 AM

@MikeQ Not sure what you mean?

Glazius

...holy toledo, they seriously didn't print "flip when you character completes a short/long rest" on the back?

MikeQ

@BESW You ever play Dominion (the card game) or any variants?

BESW

@MikeQ The closest I have experience with is Magic: the Gathering.

A_S00

It's a CRPG/Roguelike, but Slay the Spire made waves recently representing your character's moves as cards in a deckbuilding game.

BESW

@Glazius Nope. And my group didn't do that much. Mostly we "tapped" cards, turning them sideways when unavailable so we could still see them.

MikeQ

12:03 AM

@BESW It's a deck-building game where players draw from the deck, discard, and reshuffle - effectively cycling through the deck. So I was musing if a similar "cycle" has been worked into any TTRPG system mechanics, in contrast to games where players are tracking multiple different cooldowns over multiple rounds.

BESW

Or piled them all up to the side as we used them.

@MikeQ There's some games that use ordinary playing-card decks in roughly analogous ways.

But I wouldn't think of them as cooldowns.

Glazius

@MikeQ Yes and no. There's a teefin' RPG called Project Dark that I playtested where the gimmick is you start with like ace-4 in various card suits and character development puts more different cards in, so anything you use is out until the reshuffle.

But it's still in a kickstarter professionalism stall as far as I know.

I think Blades ate a decent quantity of its lunch.

V2Blast

12:44 AM

presented without context:

@Archmage_Derek I am Moist.

Tweeted by JeremyECrawford on January 29, 2019 at 12:16 AM in reply to Archmage_Derek

BESW

I prefer Rooster the Paladin, myself.

David Coffron

12:56 AM

0

Q: What is the maximum number of Fireballs a 12th level character can cast in a day?

In a brief RPG General Chat discussion, Yuuki suggested a character idea based around casting fireball as a primary method of combat. I think this would be a fun gag character for a comedic mini-campaign/one-shot, so I am wondering if it is feasible mechanically. Even though they are often unuse...

There you go @Yuuki

(I chose 12th level because you get a good number of spell slots, but not quite to the really high level slots)

Ben

Guten<tag> everybody

So I have an interesting issue we need to deal with in our game. To let a secret out that will affect the entire globe, or not, and if so, how?

BESW

Are you playing in a system which helps mechanize those sorts of choices, or is it purely free-form?

Ben

@BESW Purely free form

David Coffron

@Ben What genre

Ben

The situation is that we ran into a time traveller that revealed that an intergalactic creature had landed on earth - 5 months from our current point in time. The event kills one of the best superheroes (effectively our version of superman), and makes any and all plant and insect life go crazy - including supers.

@DavidCoffron Savage Worlds

David Coffron

1:07 AM

is it like modern global society, more medieval/renaissance where nations are more isloated because of technology limitations) or futuristic

Ben

@DavidCoffron Modern.

There is a private company that is tracking it, and we know about it due to our encounter, but it is becoming more evident sue to global activity. The police, heightened crimes, etc, have no idea about it.

BESW

So you've got a James Holden Dilemma.

David Coffron

If you'll even be believed (maybe more likely if supers are common-place), the mass hysteria might be a valid reason to stay quiet (except perhaps to select authorities). Going public is probably never good since the average person can't help anyway

Ben

So, we've come to a bit of a standstill... some of us want to give a full confession to the police, so that they are informed of the situation, however, I want to simply leave it as a "rumor", theres a cult apparently, from what we've experienced, the only members appear to be insect and plant creatures.

BESW

Is it really a pivot on which the entire story will turn, both by radically changing the setting's status quo AND by forcing the PCs to face their culpability in the changes and what it means about themselves and each other?

Or is it a moment that will be dramatic but won't fundamentally alter the nature of the setting or the party dynamics?

Ben

1:11 AM

My aim is to give them a direction to investigate, and also reduce public panic (ooh theres a cult vs "GIANT SPACE MONSTER COMING TO EAT US ALL")

@BESW Our entire campaign has been pivoting around this event.

BESW

Are you the GM or a player?

Ben

Player.

I'm feeling like giving the police the rumour is enough.

As in addition to giving them a direction, it will also stop them from investigating me, who is also experiencing effects of the grainiac creature

BESW

It sounds like the other players want to be responsible for something dramatic and world-shaking.

ACuriousMind

Just do what players always do: Spend half a session coming up with a detailed plan for the revelation, then have it disintegrate when someone completely accidentally discloses the information to the public.

Ben

Their reasoning was that they want to do everything they can to ensure that the authorities are properly informed of all details, regardless of how it disturbs the water - I want to reduce the ripples as much as I can.

@ACuriousMind Oh, we do that all the time.

Yuuki

1:23 AM

@DavidCoffron Hmm... I should ask as a related question, what is the most amount of times I can prepare Fireball as a Wizard (or other prepared caster).

BESW

Yeah, a whole team of Holdens.

Yuuki

Because part of the gag was holding up a spell list consisting entirely of Fireball.

But then again, spell preparation is different in 5e than in 3.5e, IIRC.

Ben

@BESW Google is coming up with nothing about the phrase haha

BESW

James Holden is one of the main characters in the book/TV series The Expanse. His primary character note for the first several story arcs is "I have discovered a secret which will likely spark interplanetary war! I must tell EVERYONE as soon as possible because I'm sure it'll turn out fine. Information must be free! ...wait, why is everyone bombing each other and also trying to kill me?"

trogdor

@Ben try adding Expanse

Ben

1:27 AM

@BESW Ah yes. fair enough

trogdor

Oh lol NVM

BESW

(After the... third? time he does this, he starts getting self-loathing about all the death he's caused. And then he makes things WORSE by keeping secrets that he shouldn't.)

trogdor

He isn't a great model for a smart guy

BESW

But really, he spends more time being upset about finding out that he's not actually a Special Boy.

trogdor

Lol

But mooooooom daaad other mom other dad other parents blah blah blah

Ben

1:30 AM

@BESW Oh dear hahaha

trogdor

XD

Sorry I had to make the stupid joke

(he has like, 7 parents? )

BESW

I wish I didn't know why he's the main character, because literally EVERY OTHER PERSON in the stories is more interesting than Blandman McPityparty.

trogdor

Why IS he the main character?

You might have told me before

But I honestly don't remember if you did

BESW

[shrug] He's the rich white boy. Default scifi POV.

trogdor

Ah ok

I thought something in the ballpark

Ben

1:39 AM

Well, if anything that does impact upon my decision somewhat... I'm trying to keep ourselves free of the authorities eyes, so we can actually work somewhat freely to try and defeat this grainiac creature. The potential that people will point fingers at us for keeping secrets should we actually tell the truth, and all that entails really does deficit that

Ben

2:22 AM

So how is everybody?

Glazius

Mulling over a question and whether it's too generic or list-asky. Can I pick some brains?

Ben

So long as I get them back

Glazius

(curses, he's seen through my clever scheme!) I mean, uh, sure.

So basically: youtube.com/watch?v=LQsJSqn71Fw

There are players and there are audience members. Players think about the game outside the game, audience members show up to play and not engage too much, and while you can't get by on all audience it's fine if they're having fun. Just don't put them in a spot.

> plays Dungeon World

> literally one of my directives is "put someone in a spot"

>what do

And, I mean, it's not just a "this is who this player is forever" problem, either. Some people have really on weeks and really off weeks.

Your Apocalypse World engine works great if everybody's at the table keyed up and kind of not at all for someone who isn't. Is there some kind of state between "you're in" and "you're out" anywhere in the corpus that I can give people who show up and would have fun being audience?

This is the rough shape of the question, and it feels kind of list-beggy and system-shoppy to me.

Ben

@Glazius Who is giving this directive?

Glazius

The rules.

Like, literally, that's how you play, you put people in difficult positions and toss them tough choices.

Ben

2:34 AM

Ok. So are you asking whether or not you should, or how to handle it when you do?

Glazius

I'm asking if there's something I can do when someone's having an off night and isn't feeling up to being in a difficult position making tough choices, other than "write them out for the night" or "cancel".

Ben

Ahh ok

Glazius

D&D they'd probably be fine in the background unless they played a Batman wizard.

Ben

Unfortunately I personally don't have too much experience with DW, but if t's a part of the rules I daresay that there are ways to manage this - tried and tested.

You might get a few different suggestions, but I don't think it's a bad question, or "list-asky" as you say.

Ben

2:56 AM

Hope that gave some direction?

Joshua

Is it just me or is Time Stop counterspell or die?

Joel Harmon

@Joshua Well, anyone with Time Stop is almost definitionally a high level caster, so basically yes.

Your best defence may well be to have so many allies along that the mage doesn't see you as one of the 50 or so biggest threats.

Joshua

Your best defense is probably teleport the heck out.

Joel Harmon

I don't think you can typically do that as a reaction, which should still be valid during a Time Stop event.

Ben

@Glazius I just got to the "Audience member/Casual Gamer" description. I don't see this problem as a "problem", everyone is going to have to do something they don't like to do once in a while.

trogdor

3:13 AM

They shouldn't have to during a game of all things though

Joel Harmon

@Glazius Frame challenge: you do not have a directive to put someone in a spot. You have an Agenda. In support of that, you have some Principles. From those, you have free reign to choose any of the tools known as Moves, one of which happens to be "put them in a spot".

Rather, situationally you sometimes end up getting to choose from the list of 11 moves.

Joshua

Some of my favorite traps are things in the dungeon that are best just bypassed.

Glazius

@JoelHarmon Yeah, I'm kind of being facetious there? One move actually says "put someone in a spot" but how many of those moves don't say some variant of "put someone on the spot"?

Joel Harmon

@Glazius I'd say all of them are open for interpretation to one extent or another. For example, "deal damage" doesn't necessarily mean "to the PCs". "Put them in a spot" has a pretty strong rock vs. hard place implication, providing immediacy that isn't necessarily there in most other Moves, but it could be there in any of them.

Glazius

3:37 AM

But I'm constantly asking people what they're doing, and if they say what they're doing, they have to have been paying enough attention to the goings-on to form a picture of what they're doing and make it clear to everybody else.

I mean... I don't know.

I don't know if I ever was that kind of player.

And if I was it was a long time ago.

It just doesn't seem possible to play an Apocalypse Engine game with someone who doesn't feel up to engaging with it.

But I'd like to offer someone who shows up having an off night more choices than "you don't play" and "we don't play".

Joel Harmon

I suppose if the concern is "PbtA requires players to be engaged" then that's a somewhat different thing than "these players are not currently prepared to make difficult choices in game". Maybe they're tired, maybe they're generally not suited to it.

As a DM, one thing you do have great control over is what choices you offer. Asking them whether they want cake or pie may be too big a choice. Asking mincemeat pie or cherry pie is still a choice, but a simpler and more well defined one.

Glazius

3:55 AM

Hm.

I think it is a bit rubbish as a question in the end because I don't know what would make a good solution.

Because I can't really put myself in the mindset of a disengaged player.

Ben

@Glazius I have been in that position...

Maybe try me?

I can help you with that insight if you'd like?

Glazius

Well, no, I mean.

If I asked the question.

I would have to judge the answers, based on a perspective I don't have.

Ben

@Glazius Yeh, That's what I'm offering, perhaps offering an insight into that perspective

Joel Harmon

@Glazius Then present your question: "How do I handle a player with undesirable behavior X?" is certainly on topic; your X happens to be apathy.

Spoilers: at least one answer will be "talk to the players", including asking them what they're looking for from the game, and/or why they are there.

Ben

@JoelHarmon Prolly me haha

Joel Harmon

4:04 AM

One alternative blatantly stolen from chat a few days ago is to try something a bit different, but tie it in to the normal game. Namely, run something like Great Ork Gods (mindless cartoon violence) set somewhere else in the campaign world. Maybe in a session or two your PCs will come across a somewhat surreal battlefield or something.

Glazius

So, diet "we don't play".

Joel Harmon

@Glazius Mostly. Remember, the prime goal is that everyone should have fun. Maybe that means it's board game night or movie night instead of DW night.

Sorry, I need to head out now.

Joshua

4:35 AM

Beware of D&D characters having strange hobbies.

Ben

New PC idea. The player has sub-par to average stats, except charisma - they have godlike charisma. Whatever class they are (Fighter, Wizard, Cleric), they only got there through some train of misadventure and miscommunication, and they are really not fit for the job, but the are incredibly lucky (Luck Feat) which is how they have survived as long as they have.

Joshua

lol

Ben

One issue I have seen a lot of the time is that a lot of PCs come up with tragic backstories. That's not a bad thing - it can open up for interesting plotlines. Drama that needs to be resolved. But it can also be good to have a character that is just there to adventure, because they have a big sword and just want to see the world

Yuuki

5:09 AM

@JoelHarmon As a corollary, I know that my play tends to come across as apathetic. I don't talk very much and sorta lurk in the background. Part of it is that I tend to play with bigger personalities so I've gotten used to being a supporting character, so to speak, and the other part is very much decision paralysis.

Joshua

Or maybe I'm just there until I can get a high enough caster level to set sail for the stars.

Ben

5:31 AM

So I have recently stumbled on some photos of my father as a child. It's always great to see your role models as kids haha

trogdor

5:44 AM

Lol, I've seen some of my father as a kid but most disturbing was the one of him with that,.... Horrible mustache in his early adulthood

Never unseeing that one

I'm one to talk but still

Ben

Haha

I think my dad might have intentionally "photobombed" my grad photo with a terrible moustache haha

trogdor

Paternal parental units are ridiculous creatures

Ben

I look forward to being a more influential father figure....

[cackles evilly]

trogdor

Yes, evil laughter is the most important component right?

kviiri

@Ben Tragic is/feels common enough in the media... although it's pointedly absent in some works, eg. Lord of the Rings, where everyone starts out pretty peachy (of the protagonists, I mean)

trogdor

5:56 AM

I guess that depends who you mean by protagonist

Or what you mean by tragic

Well I guess technically the bad stuff mostly happens after the story starts

If I remember right

Of what I even did read

Those books weren't the easiest to read

V2Blast

my dad looked mostly like me when he was younger (as every family member keeps commenting on when they see me)

Ben

@V2Blast yeah, there quite a few photos where you can see the resemblance between my father and I. And even if we didn't look alike, we do have a few behavioural similarities as well

V2Blast

it's gotten to the point where I just respond with a sigh and "I know"

Ben

@kviiri True. Sometimes having the adventure is enough to bring drama into a character's life

It can certainly allow for a "blank canvas", which opens up to creativity :)

I often have PCs like that, where the character development happens as part of the campaign.

kviiri

@trogdor Yea. I mean, Frodo's lost his parents but I wouldn't really count that as a tragic backstory since it's been a while and he isn't grieving anymore

But yet, tragic backstory is an easy way to show that "I have thought about my character, see?"

Ben

6:14 AM

Also true haha

kviiri

Sadly, in TTRPGs it doesn't always work that well. Like backstories in general they need other players'support to amount to anything

BESW

That's one reason I gravitate toward games with interPC backstories baked into the chargen.

Recently ran across a game (can't remember which right now) where you figured out the PCs' relationships to each other as the first step of chargen.

V2Blast

My druid in a recent SKT campaign (...that stopped after 2 sessions due to dropouts and IRL schedule changes) had a tragedy in his backstory that was mostly incidental, simply because I decided to base the character's start in FR lore and the place I had him be from (which he left) happened to collapse into the Underdark in that lore. He was a super-old dwarf druid that got sick of the workaholic-ness of the area and went off to live by himself long before any of that happened.

kviiri

One of our players used one of those joke DnD character concept generators to base his char. He got Gnome Barbarian who burned his home and doesn't speak Common.

BESW

6:29 AM

My first PC was a librarian priest who went adventuring to collect books for his new library, and to track down whoever burned down his old library.

Mark Wells

@BESW For the D&D game I'm running now, we built the party's backstories using the relationship tables from Fiasco.

V2Blast

I think most of my other characters have some sort of tragedy that started them adventuring?

MikeQ

I suggest only using a tragic backstory if it can be worked into the gameplay at the table

Otherwise, if it's just "my character is edgy because..." then it doesn't really matter.

V2Blast

technically my aarakocra monk's tribe was attacked but it's because he accidentally led a gargoyle there after getting hammered one night and got kicked out of the tribe. then he eventually got taken in by a monastery, and after that is when he started adventuring. so it wasn't really a personal tragedy besides him getting kicked out, and that's not exactly what spurred him to adventure

my edgy tiefling warlock had a childhood tragedy but didn't adventure until later. he works as a bounty hunter

BESW

One of my more recent long-form campaign characters was a social worker doing a ride-along with another PC to make sure they were fitting into their current placement.

V2Blast

6:33 AM

Hahaha, nice

honestly I don't think any of my characters are the particularly happy sort

although my rogue in one campaign (I play him with 2 different builds in 2 different campaigns) is on the happier side... he has a girlfriend (another NPC halfling)

BESW

In that same campaign I also played a swashbuckling rocketeer whose backstory was completely unknown.

She was there to do awesome stunts and pick up ~~guys~~ ~~chicks~~ consenting sapients.

V2Blast

lol

kviiri

7:01 AM

I think it's one of the biggest lessons of RPG character building I've ever learned that a character doesn't exist in a vacuum: their personalities and passions are shown through their relations with other characters and these relationships should be paid attention to more than "solo" backstories

trogdor

@BESW ah yes, the one I felt awkward GMing for :P

(it was actually very fun)

BESW

@kviiri The best character moments in that campaign were between Troggy's ~~mad~~ scientist character and Greener's plant-person that the scientist created and raised.

trogdor

oh god

I loved that

BESW

(Or, in one memorable instance, between Greener's plant person and a villain posing as Troggy's scientist.)

trogdor

I want more of that

both those things were the best

probably actually my favorite sessions involved that stuff

of almost anything

GSS and Lady Blackbird hold up well too

trogdor

7:45 AM

(and really a bunch of things were still fun but that really was my top experience)

I felt a little guilty like I had to list everything that was fun for a minute there

The Oracle

9:04 AM

-1

Q: How to link D&D beyond without owning the related resources?

As someone who asks a lot of mechanic related questions I often get edits where links are added to D&D beyond. I would love to do this myself but i am not a fan of D&D beyond and thus have not purchased anything on the site. So my question is: Are there ways to link to the related articles with...

support dnd-5e

BESW

9:17 AM

> Strike a pose. Once per scene when you Flashily create an advantage by posing dramatically, you get wpn:2 or armor:1 (pick one when you take this stunt) for the rest of the scene.

Transcript for